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Astrology => General Astrology Discussion => Topic started by: amymaddalozzo on June 08, 2018, 04:33:40 AM

Title: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: amymaddalozzo on June 08, 2018, 04:33:40 AM
News is that he committed suicide.  Born June 25, 1956, in NYC   I am not surprised.  Mr Bourdain is a recovered heroin addict.  People become addicts  or have a problem with alcohol because they have underlying mental health issues, it is called self medicating   AMY
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Halina on June 08, 2018, 06:49:44 AM
Thanx Amy, any time of birth???  I'll do a 90* dial which doesn't need time of birth.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: amymaddalozzo on June 08, 2018, 02:17:59 PM
Halina   I do not have a time for Bourdain but the chart you listed is interesting.  AMY
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Steven7 on June 08, 2018, 07:07:58 PM
 This guy didn't stand a chance, the cosmos was smashing him.

https://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Anthony_Bourdain

The great American Eclipse was on his Jupiter last August.
The February Eclipse 27 Aquarius pinged off  his Pluto Jupiter Neptune Venus Saturn and Lilith.
 The recent Full Moon 8-10 Sagittarius  was conjunct his natal Rahu.

Maybe in future lives he can  run vegetarian restaurants and get a better deal from the planets.
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: pdw on June 09, 2018, 04:29:31 AM
There’s so much we don’t know about Anthony Bourdain’s chart – his birth time, Moon degree (either Capricorn or Aquarius), and Angles. One thing we do know is that he was undergoing a transiting Saturn opposition to his natal Cancer Sun (January-November 2018), suggesting an individually challenging and potentially discouraging period, physically or emotionally. Low vitality, depression, feeling alone or isolated (Saturn possibilities) might contribute to losing the will to live (Sun).   
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on June 09, 2018, 07:26:38 AM
Thank you, pdw.  You are always so conscionable.  At least now, Anthony probably knows how much he was loved.  I think he never quite felt connected to others, even though that is what he wrote about, and talked about on No Reservations (such a remarkable play on words).  His natal Sun is rather peregrine, and even if it is in touch with an angle, it is sadly only barely touched by Venus, which strives from its introspective chattiness to huddle into the warmth of the Sun.  It’s like his father never touched him, never said I love you.  Saturn rx is almost “punished” by the Jupiter-Pluto which suggests extraordinary efforts for achievement at all costs.  And, by the way, that set was just about scorched at last year’s eclipse.  Anthony has been suffering. 

The Moon, wherever it is, is either opposite to Uranus or square to Neptune, or both, suggesting that Mom lived in her own world.  I would not be so brave as to say that except I just read the mother’s comments about her son.  Oh, she was so surprised, so amazed that a man who had everything would commit suicide.  Give me a break. 

Well, perhaps if there is such a thing as overwhelming odds that leave someone “without a chance” in life, we can say that Anthony gave it the old college try, and much more.  He brought poetry and some deep truths into our living rooms.  Helped us appreciate the truth that food is much more than tasty treats, and a way of connecting us all.
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on June 09, 2018, 12:07:28 PM
“This leads us to suspect that not much preparation and premeditation went into the act, and leads us more in the direction of an impulsive act,” said Mr. de Rocquigny in today's NYTs article.

This certainly sound like Uranus.

A few years ago my unfinished rectification stopped at 00 Scorpio 01 Ascendant. June 24, 1956 New York, N.Y. at 3:16:22 AM

I had written a contribution to this thread and was about to post when the Lord of Tabular Rosa cleaned my slate... ugh...

Anyway my point was, aside from Transiting Pluto and natal Saturn square natal Pluto etc. that Bourdain was a communicator. The article below launched his career into among other places "Parts Unknown." His life story was an inspiration to many including me as he seemingly launched himself out of obscurity [with help from his  mother] into stardom at a relatively late age. The untold part of the story reflects an unrewarded columnist and trade writer, until his breakthrough. One reviewer of his life recently said that when his first book came out it seemed like people were clamoring to the book store to buy two books. Harry Potter and Kitchen Confidential, Bourdain's book, and essentially the book form of the article below which launched it all.
 
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1999/04/19/dont-eat-before-reading-this (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1999/04/19/dont-eat-before-reading-this)

I guess he's off to the one place he hasn't yet visited. God's Speed Anthony. God's Speed.

HVA
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on June 09, 2018, 12:24:23 PM
Hello Hudson:

I guess you mean June 25th at 3:16pm not am.  I don’t think the date is under question, only the time.  I played around a bit, did not do any rectification work, and right now I am leaning towards a 28 Scorpio ASC with the Saturn on it, just to try for rectification- mostly because of last year’s eclipse and his suicide being involved.  And it gives him a Virgo MC, which confirms the writing career and his need to be very tangible and hand’s on about it.  I saw your name here and I thought oh wow, Hudson has gone poetic on us and I bet there are at least 5 achingly long paragraphs to read (ha ha, I think “achingly” was a favorite one of Anthony’s).  Or..I was hoping you had, anyway.  Someone had better write something great about him because he wrote such amazing things about all of us and our love of food and life and of being real. 
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on June 09, 2018, 12:46:56 PM
Yes Barb not sure how that happened. Thank you. Have much written on him but will share at a later date.
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on June 09, 2018, 12:47:29 PM
Typing on my phone.... argh
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: pdw on June 10, 2018, 05:06:56 AM
This morning I came across a report that he had a grueling work/travel schedule and was “absolutely exhausted” in the months leading up to his death – which, if accurate, directly references the T Saturn opposition to his Sun, I think.   

Also, the above 'at risk' influence combined with the news that he “had been in a dark mood these past couple of days” made me notice a potentially significant trigger, especially for a Pisces Mars native, in the days leading up to his suicide. On June 5-7, the Moon was transiting Pisces and triggering his natal Mars and transiting Neptune (at 12 and 16 Pisces, respectfully), potentially reflecting a rise in moodiness that disorients personal initiative in some way, either positively (with inspiration) or negatively (with hopelessness). Increased impulsivity, irrational acts and distorted thinking (squaring his natal 13 Gemini Mercury) come to mind as possibilities with this one, as well as a highly sensitive period, physically, for drug/alcohol use or abuse.     
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: pdw on June 10, 2018, 05:50:14 AM
Barbara, thanks for pointing out his Sun-Venus peregrine island. Theoretically running away with a chart, he literally ran all over the world displaying his personal viewpoint,  feelings, and creativity. With his natal Venus retrograde, in Gemini, I wonder if social shyness or awkwardness was something he had to learn how to hide or control (with Gemini charm, maybe).   
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 10, 2018, 06:01:00 AM
From a Jyotish standpoint, it's pretty easy to see what went on here...

http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?mode=3&script=hk&tran_input=jyotish&direct=au

Both transiting Jupiter and transiting Saturn were aspecting his natal Mars, natal Sun, and natal Venus.  No event of large significance ever happens in life without the double transit effect of Jupiter and Saturn.  This of course was no exception.

Natal Mars is in the nakshatra known as Shaatabhisha.  "Illnesses whose genesis occurs in Shatabhisha are very difficult to remedy, and may require 'one hundred physicians'...to cure" (from pages 242-243 in Light on Life: An Introduction to the Astrology of India).

Natal Sun is in the nakshatra of Ardra.  Its primary symbol is the teardrop.

Additionally, transiting malefic Ketu (South Node) is currently conjunct natal Moon, and also afflicting natal Mercury.  Both Moon and Mercury are planetary significators of the mind.  Transiting natural malefic Mars was also conjunct his natal Moon.  More confluence.

So all of these transits formed the backdrop...now, what was the trigger?  Transiting natural malefic Sun was just 4 degrees past being partile conjunct with natal Mercury, and 8 degrees past being partile conjunct with natal Ketu.

Add all this up and we see way too much malefic transit influence on his mind.

Now, once his actual birth time is located, there will be more corroboration and confluence to all of this...





Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Halina on June 10, 2018, 09:44:52 AM
Thanx for the Vedic perspective, James......here is his Vedic biwheel.....and planetary nakshatras.
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 10, 2018, 02:04:03 PM
Thanks Halina, this is such an instructive example, very rich, even without a known birth time.  Notice that whatever time he was born, his Karakamsha lagna was Gemini.  From Gemini, the exact transiting Mars-Ketu conjunction falls in the 8th House--conjunct the natal Moon (emotional mind).  That's a huge red flag right off the bat.

Additionally, whatever time he was born, his Chandra lagna was Capricorn.  Here the transiting Mars-Ketu exact conjunction is conjunct natal Moon in the 1st.

And his Sade Sati began last year when transiting Saturn entered the 12th from his natal Moon.  A phase of separation.  Longing for something.  A lot of chances to take the wrong turn.  Added pressure on the mind.  Feeling isolated and/or confined.

Etc., etc., etc.



Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Halina on June 11, 2018, 06:46:49 AM
You lost me there James.    Rule for Karakamsa Lagna....1. Check the highest planet in the rasi....this is Mercury.    2. Check its location in the Navamsha.....this is CANCER NOT GEMINI, James.     See both charts below, then please explain the rule, thanx.
       Point 2, if time is unknown, we do not know the real position by sign of rasi Moon.....so how can you definitely say that the Chandra(Moon) lagna is Capricorn....it might by Sagittarius or Aquarius.
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 11, 2018, 08:55:19 AM
Halina, the Karakamsha lagna is Gemini, as Mercury is in Gemini in D9, and it is the AK.

Similarly, the Moon is only in Capricorn on the day he was born (sidereal zodiac, lahiri ayanamsha) in his D1 birth chart.

You keep getting confused by your Western style chart system for Jyotisha charts, Halina.  Those kind of mistakes are not made using either the North Indian or South Indian style charts...if you look at his D9 with either JH or Jyotish Tools, you will see very easily that he has Mercury in Gemini in D9, no matter what time he was born that day.

Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 11, 2018, 12:01:06 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/heroin-depression-getting-sober-anthony-bourdain-always-open-battling-demons-171835934.html

Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Steven7 on June 11, 2018, 12:50:44 PM
 Another strike from the last August Full Moon eclipse 15-25 Aquarius  hit his natal Uranus from 165 degrees adding to the list of malefic transits pounding the poor guy.
 Eclipses are not always instant in effect, I saw one take 14 months to fulfill a prediction.
 That's beyond the 13 Lunar cycles.
  Some of the tin foilers on You Tube are seeing interesting  things in common with Anthony Bourdain , Kate Spade and the Dutch princess who also opted out of the being alive program. Last year there were a bunch of alleged suicides that had Haiti and the Clinton foundation in common including the Barry and Honey deaths and Dr. Dean Lorange and many others. Sometimes the Tin Foilers get it right.


 Here is Joni Patry's Vedic astrological take on it.
 She rectified it to Sidereal Libra rising but perhaps a Tropical Libra Ascendant may work too in some ways?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUPbN2a2WZM


 Did he have other health issues?  He did not look well in recent  pictures.

 No one stays dead , may the good Lord give them all the mercy.
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on June 11, 2018, 01:31:21 PM
Hello Steven and all:

I watched some of Joni Patri's video, who is a Vedic astrologer, and she chose a possible birth time for him of 2 something pm which would put his Ascendant on Libra.  Then she gave all kinds of reasons why it made sense, but mostly because Neptune was there and he is into being filmed, a Neptune thing (which does make sense).  I myself chose a possible later time with a Scorpio ASC (which is maybe Libra in Vedic, but not at the degree I chose. 

The chart below was a wild assumption regarding the August eclipse degree of 28 Leo (or a square or opposition to it) being either on an angle or having the houses which are ruled by those three planets (Saturn, Uranus, Jupiter) receiving pertinent effects after the Eclipse (and with the transits of Mars afterwards).  Since Saturn on ASC, especially in Scorpio, seemed to match Mr. Bourdain's countenance and self-presentation, I'm hanging on to that one for awhile.  I've done no rectification or anything like that, but if you look, the 12th house is also ruled by Pluto which was the point of the eclipse last year.  The ruler of the 12th can certainly receive a hit if one's doctor has just told you that you probably have, say, cancer, and that you have about a year to live. 

The last show that was newly aired on the travel channel showed Bourdain extremely thin, more than ever, and with a drawn look to his face.  If he was terminal, it is possible that he told no one, and just toughed it out.  SA Jupiter was conjunct to Neptune also, the ruler of his 4th house of endings. 

Just a try.

-Barbara   
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Robynne on June 12, 2018, 02:24:15 PM
Jupiter to Neptune transits can also highlight or magnify a sense of meaninglessness, emptiness or nothingness.
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on June 14, 2018, 06:23:41 AM
Yes, Robynne, or just a longing to be drawn into the comforting one-ness of everlasting peace and harmony - that la la land where we are all welcome at the table.   
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Pamela Young on June 16, 2018, 06:13:26 PM
On another forum there has been discussion of this case in two threads, the mundane and the Vedic.  Bourdain apparently knew his birth time, and had his chart done by a Vedic astrologer while he was in India; the consultation was filmed for his show No Reservations.  On one of the threads there is a link to the show, which I tried to put here but it didn't work.  The video was too blurry to be able to make out the birth time on the astrologer's laptop, but the Vedic chart (thus sidereal) shows that he has Cancer rising and his Moon is at 5º20' Capricorn.  Someone on that forum more familiar with Vedic astrology than me figured out that this would mean he was born between 8:20 a.m. and 9:35 a.m., and that, tropically, he had Leo rising with either Aries or Taurus on the MC.  The thinking was that, with that Moon position, he was probably born at about 8:22 a.m.  Hopefully James Williams or someone else well versed in Vedic astrology could look into this more. 

The chart for 8:22 a.m. is certainly suggestive, given what happened.  His natal Neptune is exactly conjunct his IC, with the Moon closely squaring both from the 6th house.   On June 8 the transiting Mean North Node, which natally was in his 5th house of romance, children and creativity, was bang on his Ascendant, opposing his natal Chiron conjunct the Descendant (and thus the transiting South Node was of course conjunct the latter as well)  Transiting Mars, having conjoined his Moon some days previously, was now conjunct his Descendant and Chiron. 

Well, they do say that his girlfriend Asia Argento had been seeing someone else, had posted pictures of the two of them embracing and clearly having a very good time together.  She also posted a picture of herself wearing a T-shirt that said, 'F... everyone' and underneath that, 'You know who you are.'  Then her friend Rose McGowan said people shouldn't blame Asia for Anthony's death, that the two had had an open relationship.  Hmm ...maybe too open for Anthony, poor guy.

     https://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1528674879

     https://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1528459381
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 16, 2018, 07:57:05 PM
Thank you Pam.  It appears he was born at 8:35 AM, according to this screen shot...

http://betraymetwice.tumblr.com/post/174759722278

The key is Asc 18:14 Cancer.  This is the Vedic astrology Ascendant degree and minutes...18 degrees 14 minutes Cancer.  Which would equal 8:35 AM, according to my software.  I have different software than the screen shot, but it shouldn't make any significant difference.

So for now I'm going with 8:35 AM EDT...will take a closer look tomorrow, but it appears this is the screen shot that they utilized...

This would then equate to his Western horoscope Ascendant being 11 degrees Leo 29 minutes...

If anyone sees any other Asc degree different that 18:14 Cancer for his Vedic birth chart, please let me know...

Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 16, 2018, 08:13:06 PM
...and they're using Mean Nodes...
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 17, 2018, 03:23:12 AM
Thus, if his Vedic astrology Ascendant is 18 Cancer 14, then he was born at 8:35 AM EDT, and his Western Ascendant would then be 11 Leo 29...
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 17, 2018, 03:29:06 AM
...and if his Vedic astrology Moon is 5 Capricorn 20, then it could only be at 5 Capricorn 20 from around 8:33 AM to 8:36 AM...roughly around a 3 minute span before it goes to 5 Capricorn 21...

Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 17, 2018, 03:50:15 AM
From a Jyotish standpoint, it's pretty easy to see what went on here...

http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?mode=3&script=hk&tran_input=jyotish&direct=au

Both transiting Jupiter and transiting Saturn were aspecting his natal Mars, natal Sun, and natal Venus.  No event of large significance ever happens in life without the double transit effect of Jupiter and Saturn.  This of course was no exception.

Natal Mars is in the nakshatra known as Shaatabhisha.  "Illnesses whose genesis occurs in Shatabhisha are very difficult to remedy, and may require 'one hundred physicians'...to cure" (from pages 242-243 in Light on Life: An Introduction to the Astrology of India).

Natal Sun is in the nakshatra of Ardra.  Its primary symbol is the teardrop.

Additionally, transiting malefic Ketu (South Node) is currently conjunct natal Moon, and also afflicting natal Mercury.  Both Moon and Mercury are planetary significators of the mind.  Transiting natural malefic Mars was also conjunct his natal Moon.  More confluence.

So all of these transits formed the backdrop...now, what was the trigger?  Transiting natural malefic Sun was just 4 degrees past being partile conjunct with natal Mercury, and 8 degrees past being partile conjunct with natal Ketu.

Add all this up and we see way too much malefic transit influence on his mind.

Now, once his actual birth time is located, there will be more corroboration and confluence to all of this...

There are only 2 maraka (death) houses in Jyotisha...the 2nd and the 7th...the Sun rules his 2nd House if he was born at 8:35 AM.  Thus, it was indeed the trigger graha (seizing planet) here...the mental pressure and the psyche-ache just got to be too much for him the night of the 7th and the morning of the 8th...

Saturn rules his maraka 7th, as well as his 8th, and thus the double transit effect of Jupiter and Saturn were both hitting his 8th and 12th Houses...with Saturn transiting in the 6th House...

The only question is whether that blurry screen shot contains another degree besides 18 Cancer...it definitely is a Cancer Ascendant in his Jyotisha chart according to that blurry screen shot, but the exact degree cannot be seen...

Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 17, 2018, 04:00:54 AM
Several other confluent factors are now seen with this 8:35 AM birth time, but perhaps the most important is that transiting Mars and transiting Ketu (South Node) were PARTILE CONJUNCT in his 7th House, which is one of two of his maraka houses.

Mars rules the 5th House of viveka, that is, discernment and discrimination...they were completely eclipsed, and thus he couldn't think straight...couldn't see any viable options for sticking around...

http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?mode=3&script=hk&tran_input=viveka&direct=au
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 17, 2018, 04:15:39 AM
...thus, the applying Mars transit, in exact conjunction with transiting Ketu (True Nodes) when he made his decision, was the primary trigger Seizer...with the transiting Sun being a secondary trigger...
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Pamela Young on June 17, 2018, 07:35:16 AM
Thank you, James!  It's fascinating about the maraka houses.  I agree with you, on a totally different basis, that transiting Mars and the Sun were the triggers.  The (Mean) nodes were the other most important thing, I think.  I'm going to have to contemplate your posts for a while to take in all the details, as Vedic astrology is not my area; will be back later.

Here's the link to the No Reservations episode where he had his Vedic chart done; I finally got it to work.  The section showing his consultation with the Vedic astrologer is about 26 minutes in:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2bdbuz
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Pamela Young on June 17, 2018, 08:58:42 AM
Interesting.  With the time of 8:35 a.m., Bourdain's tropical chart has 0º29' Taurus on the MC, and transiting Uranus was at 1º09' Taurus on June 8.  His natal Uranus was at 0º49' Leo in the 12th house, thus squaring his MC.  And, his secondary progressed Moon was at 0º01' Taurus on June 8, thus squaring his natal 12th-house Uranus and conjoining both his natal MC and transiting Uranus.  All this against the recent backdrop of transiting Uranus square his natal Moon, and transiting Saturn opposing his natal Sun, just for good measure; Uranus and Saturn are the modern and traditional rulers, respectively, of his 7th house of relationships.  Meanwhile, his progressed MC was conjunct his natal Venus (love, relationships), and his progressed IC was conjunct his vertex, for what that's worth.  Also, with the time of 8:35 a.m., his natal 8th-house Mars at 11º25' Pisces (not a strong sign for that planet) is quincunx his Ascendant. 

Poor, poor guy.  He seems to have been a very sweet, gentle soul, first appearances notwithstanding.  It's such a shame.  I still think that his relationship with Asia Argento, or rather the impending end of it, as it seemed to him, was what pushed him over the edge.

The following article shows the picture Asia Argento posted of herself wearing the black t-shirt:

https://people.com/food/asia-argento-cryptic-message-before-anthony-bourdain-suicide/

In this article friends of Anthony's discuss how they were a little concerned about the fact that Anthony was so head over heels about Asia, like a teenager:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5836947/Friends-feared-Anthony-Bourdain-crazy-love-Asia-Argento.html

In this article one of the reporters who photographed Asia with an apparent new boyfriend says he's sorry, and wouldn't have done it if he'd known it would push someone over the edge to suicide, assuming that's what happened:

https://pagesix.com/2018/06/12/paparazzo-who-snapped-asia-argento-with-french-reporter-regrets-shots/
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: pdw on June 17, 2018, 09:49:30 AM
Pamela and James, thanks for sharing your detective work and interpretations. Lots to consider...

The 8:35AM time sure maximizes Uranian tension in his chart - with transiting Uranus (1 Taurus) at his MC (0 Taurus) and squaring his natal Uranus-Moon opposition (at 1 Leo and 29 Capricorn, respectively). I think this suggests some kind of extraordinary focus on personally changing, liberating, disrupting his material status quo and physical ties (Taurus MC) to the future (Uranus).

His Capricorn Moon, an earth singleton in the health-oriented 6th House, rules his Cancer 12th House (where feelings, fears, and insecurities are collected and 'guarded' by the Moon, perhaps) - a setup which does make me wonder if he was experiencing private fears or concerns related to an illness or health issue.

Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on June 17, 2018, 09:59:09 AM
"I think in life they give too much to some people and nothing to everybody else," Bourdain once said and further stated, "but without work we are nothing."

That quote and his grueling schedule had me almost place the Moon in the 6th house. But I opted for the 3rd house so the signs I placed on the angle were off but the degrees I landed on were eerily close.

Thanks for the update time of birth...

There are some excellent posts about suicide on this Forum. Those posts would be excellent reading and Schneidman's work which James referenced is probably essential.

Both Asia and Anthony suffered from depression. We might be able to identify and describe triggers but not necessarily 'causes.' Suicide is now the leading cause of death between 15 to 49 and in the past decade over 400,000 Americans have taken their own lives: more than the number of people killed in WWII and the Korean War combined.

Elevated psych-ache plus constricted perceptions of life's options and constant thanatopholic thought = SUICIDE

Here in Bourdain's chart the mindset is suggested to suffer under the duress of needing to always think strategically, apparently putting himself under pressure. Mercury rules the third and was quindecile Saturn. Having Neptune in the neighborhood I think complicated matters for him. His mind was at war and probably wouldn't let him rest. The Moon ruling the 12th, is square Neptune. He must have been an extremely emotional individual underneath his proud peripatetic persona. He couldn't work long enough or in enough places to escape his demons.

HVA
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 17, 2018, 12:06:40 PM
It's important to remember here that although it appears Bourdain told the village astrologer that he was born at 8:35 AM, we don't know if he was 100 percent sure, or 50 percent sure, 20 percent sure, etc.  But it's the best we currently have to go on, without his birth certificate...and both Western and Eastern systems seem to be corroborating that 8:35 AM time...
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 17, 2018, 12:44:01 PM
In Astrological Timing of Critical Illness, Noel has a section comprised of suicidal significators via relevant case studies, so if anyone has the time and the inclination, it probably would be rewarding to see if Bourdain's 8:35 AM chart contains some of those significators...
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 17, 2018, 04:10:47 PM
In watching that video with his Jyotish session with Sunil, I was especially struck by his last comment to them, "This seems to be a place of great happiness."  It was like he was wistfully wanting that so much for himself...

Emotional happiness is seen in one's Jyotisha birth chart via 4th House significators.  He has no planets in his 4th, but the ruler, Venus, is in his 12th, retrograde, and the 12th is known as the house of expenditure and loss...so loss of happiness.  This is corroborated by its close conjunction with Sun, hence combust.

The 12th House in one's Jyotish chart is also known as the house of bed pleasures, or the pleasure (or lack thereof) that one receives from sex.  Notice also that in his Western chart, that his 5th and 8th House significators are under significant developmental tension...

If questioned, I wouldn't be surprised if he would have said something like, "I don't receive all the sexual pleasure I would like because I travel and am away from home so damn much."
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 17, 2018, 11:57:55 PM
Hi Dean, yes I cringed when I heard that, but I hear it's not too uncommon among native Indian astrologers, unfortunately.  The art of consultation is not their specialty...it is important for us non-native Indians to remember that oftentimes these "village" astrologers were taught the craft by their father or other relative, and passed down secretly, sometimes for generations and even centuries.  Now this guy Sunil was located in a large populated tourist city, and yet he also was the priest of a local ashram, which is somewhat unusual for a jyotishi.

Here's what James Braha wrote in one of his books, which also helps us native Westerners to better understand the mindset and techniques of the historical jyotishi in India...

"Generally, a Hindu astrology reading given by an Indian...will be rather short and to the point.  The reading may consist of five or six extremely specific predictions, some of which will be dramatically accurate, and some of which fail completely...The astrologer usually describes some events and circumstances of your previous years.  But there is very little about who you are...It amounts to the Indians' approach to astrology, as well as their experiences of life.  For an Indian, the point of astrology is to find out what is fated, what has been 'determined' by one's past karma...You also have to remember that Indians absolutely expect the astrologer to be accurate in making specific predictions.  So the astrologer's consciousness is entirely focused on that task...Focusing completely on predictions makes it very hard for a Hindu astrologer to talk about a horoscope for any length of time...Generally, though, if you talk to five or ten Indians who have visited local astrologers, they'll tell story after story about important astrological predictions that came about exactly as the astrologer promised...If you want a more thorough Jyotish reading, you're generally better off getting it from a Westerner.  You'll likely receive more information, and...the material will be more fleshed out.  You will almost certainly, however, not be told that on the second Thursday in October, your mother is going to break her leg" (from pages 176-179 in The Art and Practice of Ancient Hindu Astrology: Nine Intimate Sessions Between Teacher and Student).

Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 18, 2018, 01:36:00 PM
Two quotes by Carl Jung seem to me to be extremely relevant as to why Bourdain took his life...

· I have frequently seen people become neurotic when they content themselves with inadequate or wrong answers to the questions of life. They seek position, marriage, reputation, outward success of money, and remain unhappy and neurotic even when they have attained what they were seeking. Such people are usually confined within too narrow a spiritual horizon. Their life has not sufficient content, sufficient meaning.

· I have treated many hundreds of patients. Among those in the second half of life - that is to say, over 35 - there has not been one whose problem in the last resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life.

I am reminded that the 7th House is also the 4th House from the 4th House...his emotional unhappiness, coupled with an eclipse of his ability to discern and discriminate properly and functionally, left him with what seemed no viable options in order to continue marching on...if he had been urged to follow a "spiritual" path, he would have had a much better chance of sticking around...



Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on June 18, 2018, 02:32:44 PM
Thank you to Pamela and James for finding that birth time! 

As said, it's not proof, yet I think that Bourdain would have had enough curiosity and training (like respect for an original recipe) that he would come to an astrologer only with the correct time.  And yet, it still might be a few minutes off.  It is suspicious that both Uranus and the progressed Moon were at 0 Taurus together if it was not on an angle.  On the other hand, that point was square to his natal Uranus which certainly ruled his 7th house if born at that time.  It requires more detective work, since we really don't know if Bourdain was crushed about a disappointed love affair or if he knew about a terminal illness, or if, indeed, he had set himself a marker in time to have become a household name, and it didn't happen (enough).  I'm trying to give credit to the "poor Anthony and his broken heart" story, but I've heard some male nastiness come from his mouth at times that makes me think he was made of tougher nails than that.  But who knows?  Thanks for the better time.

Everybody here has such important astrological comments.  PDW, when you mentioned the Moon being the 12th ruler, you made me notice that the Moon is the yod or midpoint of the Venus/Jupiter-Pluto.  Also, Venus is the yod (or midpoint) of the Moon-Saturn sextile.  All of those outer planets are involved with Venus and the Moon, one way or another, and all triggered by transits lately.  The one that I want to understand would be the solar arc of Jupiter to Neptune.  5th house ruler to 8th house ruler.   
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 18, 2018, 03:49:32 PM
Barbara, I tend to agree, I don't think it was the behavior of Argento that drove him to suicide...it was deeper than that.  It was the realization that both career and relationships and money and fame, etc., will not provide the type of lasting happiness that he was desperately missing and searching for throughout life...he saw and felt glimpses of it, such as at that ashram, but never came to the realization that true and lasting happiness is found within, not without.

Again, I am struck by the timing of transiting Mars at the time he took his life.  It was averaging around 15 minutes of movement per day, leading up to the 8th, and on the morning of the 8th it was exactly conjunct--to the minute--to the transiting True South Node.  It was like a detonator set to go off when they met...
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on June 18, 2018, 04:10:42 PM
That is a valid and excellent description of it, James.  I wondered about that Mars with the Moon Nodes.  Like a message to us or something.
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on June 18, 2018, 04:22:25 PM
Barbara, I've seen so many of these "matchings" over the years now, that I've come to expect them in cases such as these--especially when the Nodes are involved.  And it could be that Mars rules his 10th House in his Western chart, with Taurus intercepted.  But with transiting Mars and transiting Uranus so prominent here at the time of his transition, "impulsive" suicide certainly would fit the symbolism...
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on June 19, 2018, 04:21:41 PM
When sacred Night sweeps heavenward, she takes
the glad, the winsome day, and folding it,
rolls up its golden carpet that had been
spread over an abysmal pit.
Gone vision-like is the eternal world,
and man, a homeless orphan, has to face,
in utter helplessness, naked, alone,
the blackness of immeasurable space.
Upon himself he has to lean; with mind
abolished, thought unfathered, in the dim
depths of his soul he sinks, for nothing comes
from outside to support or limit him.
All life and brightness seem an ancient dream-
while in the substance of the night,
unravelled, alien, he now perceives
a fateful something that is his by right.

                                                                                                                              Fydor Tyutchev

At the time it was discovered that Anthony Bourdain had taken his own life:

Mercury3-Saturn6-Mars9=Asc

VenusMC-3=Jupiter5
Jupiter5=Neptune8-9


He suffered from depression. Natal Saturn retrograde wasn't your vanilla version of the Saturn Retrograde Phenomenology. Saturn was square Jupiter-Pluto AND quindicile Mercury (ruler of the third if the time fits...) And I think Dean hits the nail on the head when he suggests that the chart is "fitting". (And we'll never really know to echo Barb and James) Still, one of the great story tellers of modern times "chose" Mercury=Asc to deliver his final message. FITTING. Mercury ruler of the third suggests a mindset in tumult perhaps; "thought unfathered."

"The blackness of immeasurable space" overwhelmed his potential to see things as they are; phainesthai is the potential of all things to glow and shimmer in divine reflection, to "shine forth" in the words of Jordan Peterson. But these potentials were obscured by 'other worldly' pursuits to Parts Unknown. In other words, in his obsession to explore the world and to tell the story of the other he still could not find his fill 'from outside to support him.' I think James' comment about his not having a sustainable spiritual connection is spot on. Finding our "bliss" as Joseph Campbell called it is within for sure, however, there is a prerequisite that we connect ourselves to the Earth through a certain amount of narrowing and extreme effort to achieve mastery at something in the world. That is we need to go through the lived experience that connects us to that Source and I think that Bourdain may have in fact come close to this experience to some degree and perhaps often... but as James' mentions Bourdain's "glimpses" of this experience must have made that fact all the more difficult for him in knowing that the experience was one that he could not sustain. Like trying to catch the "Dragon Fly" that "dark genie" as Bourdain called it, caught up with him, the same 'dark genie' that seduced him into drug addiction in the first place. And we know that sometimes the most spiritually inclined are also the most vulnerable.

I think that the astrology is eloquent in the 'timed' chart we have. Especially when taking measure of the Solar Arcs. The Vedic Mythological story of the PaNis stealing the cows (cow=light/rays in Sanskrit) from the gods comes to mind. Tyutchev captures and contains the essence of the message that the Rishis were trying to convey, but I think perhaps the story is not merely one for the world at large, and it is not merely a story for the cosmos either. It is also a very personal and individual story. We all have our RasA (river/emotions) to cross. And our journey at one time or another brings us face to face with our demons (the brothers Vritra and Vala in the Myth and Vala's minions the dreaded PaNis, hoarders of the cows, obstruction of Truth and blockers of light). Even though Anthony was "recovered" he was still in effect "chasing dragons" trying to duplicate the rush and feeling of contentment he got from that first bag of heroin on Rivington Street.

In 1980, Bourdain copped his first bag of Heroin and then used everyday (which sounds so Scorpionic and the reason I began with Scorpio on the Ascendant). Solar Arc pictures on his his 24th birthday:

SunAsc=Neptune8-9

Nodal Axis=VenusMC-3

Mars9=Sun


Combating issues of identity, ambivalence, and belonging. Drugs and creative involvement with others, easily piqued and agitated, possibly too rajasic and rambunctious.

Pierre Bourdain, Anthony's father, died around April 28, 1987

SA VenusMC opposed the Moon12 and was square Neptune. Significantly, SA Moon moved to oppose Jupiter and square Saturn, while SA Saturn moved into a quindecile aspect with natal Mercury. Saturn’s arc from its natal position moved exactly 30 degrees, quindecile to Mercury and so in some sense reflects the mirrored circumstance of his natal Saturn in terms of how he needed to think and perhaps suggests something about his response to learning of his father's death, separating from his paternal influence and perhaps also creating distance with his brother Chris. Solar Arc Neptune too activates the ominous Saturn square Pluto-Jupiter. The overall picture of these arcs in tandem with the current transits of that time suggest tremendous emotional release AND perhaps a draining of personal power. BUT this was also the time period where Anthony stopped using heroin. In recovery speak, "he hit bottom."


He Married Putkowski with SA Venus opposed the Moon and square Neptune, while SA Uranus was exact to natal Jupiter. They would divorce 20 years later in 2005: SA Mars opposite Neptune and square the Moon. Both SA Saturn and SA Neptune were quindecile natal Mercury and transiting Uranus was exact on natal Mars. Anthony called his separation and divorce from Putkoski the great betrayal.


Anthony’s natal Mars, Mercury and Neptune appear to be sensitive degrees but the 27th degree of Scorpio seems especially sensitive both by degree and by reference of transiting Saturn and as well by Saturn’s Arc. The incident of his suicide appeared to be no exception to both his sensitivity and vulnerability to the enormous pressures of the night. Maybe that is the degree I saw projected from his face even when he smiled. We might be able to fine tune this chart with more accurate timing of events in his life. In his bio he stated that a most significant early event occurred when he was @10 and went to France to visit relatives. The narrative most commonly told is how this trip planted a seed of culinary curiosity that would not die. But it is also the same area of France where his father lost his own father, Anthony's grandfather, at the young and impressionable age of 9. His father would over compensate. Attend Yale and become a high level music executive in Manhattan. Anthony was no slouch academically, he got into Vassar. But he must have been a disappointment to his father. Bourdain dropped out of Vassar. And even then he was a writer; writing reports for students who would pay him cash so that he could buy drugs. His father surely expressed his disappointment and let him know in no uncertain terms. And so, Anthony had to cut his own path, so much so that many year later after divorcing his first wife, he and his girlfriend Busia had matching chef's knife tattoos etched onto each other while on vacation. That was 2005. But the relationship cooled 10 years in and 9 years after his daughter was born in 2007. Anthony's schedule didn't slow and the strain on the marriage forced their relationship to bend and "open". He met Asia and fell hard in love, BUT at the start of that relationship it was Asia who was severely depressed. Interestingly, Anthony became the hero-in her distress but when the glass slippers slipped off, she was either unaware of his suffering or was simply not able to provide that same level of support back to him in return.

In one version of the Myth of Panis, the gods send the Sun-Bird to recover the stolen cows. But SuparNa (the Eagle or Sun-Bird) accepts a "bargain" from the Panis and returns empty handed. The gods are furious and "strangle" the Sun-Bird until curd spits out, revealing his betrayal. Anthony Bourdain commited suicide by hanging and strangling himself to death with the belt from his hotel bathrobe. "... a fateful something that is his by right."




HVA

P.S. And so would his decision to live be "a fateful something that is his by right." However, that something would require that the cows (light) come home.
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on June 20, 2018, 07:44:24 AM
Thank you, Tim, for posting this.  You are such a beautiful writer.  You must save this and expound on it later, go slower with it.  Publish your work someday.  It was difficult for me to read it even.  I don't know why I identified with Bourdain so much, that it bothered me so much that he killed himself.  Over the years there was some part of him which I hated, but I allowed him that because I felt his overall Neptunian perspective on things was important and right, and so it makes sense that his natal Neptune would be there at his IC.  Maybe my emotional involvement was because his Neptune is so close to my Sun degree, and his Saturn is so close to my Ascendant that I could feel his need to get to the bottom of things which he held tight within himself.  It's funny I think how when we get emotionally involved we lose that objective take on things that make us good astrologers.  It's the same when I try to look at the charts of my children and my brother, I don't see as clearly as I do with people I don't know very well.  I try, but then I lose it. 
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Stacy on June 20, 2018, 09:00:57 AM
News is that he committed suicide.  Born June 25, 1956, in NYC   I am not surprised.  Mr Bourdain is a recovered heroin addict.  People become addicts  or have a problem with alcohol because they have underlying mental health issues, it is called self medicating   AMY

I was turned off and so disgusted by this and other ignorant comments about suicides and depression/mental illness in general that I withheld comment before now. Oh boy, here we go: T Mars cj my 3rd house Sun presently! It's the very ignorance and stigma that causes many sufferers to keep silent and "surprise" everyone when they were overwhelmed. We can never know the full reason(s) or what the last straw was for anyone. What kills one person strengthens another. Again, unless you have literally experienced this dreadful disease, please do not condescend or make offensive presumptions.

Stacy
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: amymaddalozzo on June 20, 2018, 02:38:36 PM
I am not being critical of him, just the opposite   My late husband had Huntington's disease and people with that illness, do have depression.  Most of the drugs for depression take awhile to work.  people do not become drug addicts because they are bad people, they have a mental health issue.  You really jumped to conclusions   AMY
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Stacy on June 20, 2018, 03:32:16 PM
I'm glad to hear my perception of your post was off, Amy. That's they way it came across to me after re-reading, and sharing it with someone I know who struggles with Bi-Polar, but apologies if I was wrong. I should note that I also ran it [your comments] by my psychologist, along with Val Kilmer's, as I was discussing my frustration and anger with people critical of those who commit suicide. Thanks for clarifying, though. Yes, it's indeed a subject close to my heart and very personal, so easy to jump to conclusions.

Stacy
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Stacy on June 20, 2018, 06:48:03 PM
Ironically I just caught the last 15 minutes of Sylvia, HBO story about Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes. She committed suicide as did 2 of his other lovers, apparently. The actress playing Plath (Gwenyth Paltrow?) nailed it--what depression looks and even feels like.

Multiply that by months/years as I felt during T Neptune's journey thru my 3rd house. Noel describes the transit of Neptune cj Sun as total ego wipe out. I didn't know what that meant until I experienced it.  And hitting my stellium was pure torture. Strangely, I wrote some of my best poetry and sketched some meaningful art work during that transit--then threw it all away so no one would find it if I died!  Wish I kept those notebooks...

Maybe a separate thread is needed delineating the complex Plath/Hughes relationship, but for now I wanted to add my thoughts on depression. My psychic-medium asked me last time " Are you blogging or otherwise writing your feelings and getting the info out there?"  I answer, "On my facebook site I have been pretty transparent." She tells me Spirit says my thoughts are pristine and to keep it up; keep getting my truth out there ~

Stacy
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on June 28, 2018, 04:38:43 AM
Barb,

I had a big hearty response to your acknowledgment of my post. But I scraped it off the board in favor of "taking my time" and in appreciation of your other comments.

I guess a BIG and HEARTFELT THANK YOU

is enough. And easier on the eyes.  8)


HVA
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Pamela Young on August 21, 2018, 06:25:21 AM
Well, now I've heard everything:  Asia Argento, Anthony Bourdain's girlfriend whose dalliance with a younger man may have been a major contribution to Bourdain's decision to commit suicide, has now been accused of sexual assault of a 17-year-old boy - this, after having been one of the original people to start the #MeToo movement.  This story is just mind-boggling; the person she is alleged to have assaulted,  who is now 21, sued her for 3.5 million dollars one month after she spoke out publicly against Harvey Weinstein.  They settled on a total payment of $380,000, the first instalment of which was paid in April just past. 

The man she was seeing just before Bourdain's suicide is 28.  Looks like Argento prefers younger guys, and Bourdain was almost 20 years her senior.  It's looking more and more like she never really felt about him the way he felt about her; it looks like she was just using him to further her career.  I'm sorry, but that's how it looks, and I don't think my stating the obvious makes me an internet troll, as some of Argento's friends are saying of anyone who said her behaviour contributed to Bourdain's death.  If it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, guess what?  It's probably a duck.

Poor Anthony.

Here's a link to the story:

                   https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/20/entertainment/asia-argento-alleged-assault-settlement/index.html

I'm having trouble posting charts again, so here's a link to her profile in AstroDatabank, which gives her chart; click on the chart to enlarge, and then you can click to add current transits.  There's a lot going on in her 4th house.

                  https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Argento,_Asia

   
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Halina on August 21, 2018, 07:49:39 AM
       Did this sexual assault actually take place.....let's look at her 90* tridial....location a hotel in Marina del Rey, Cal.....May 2013.....actual date unknown, let's use mid-may 15, 2013.    Paran axes to Solar Arc Sun shows midpoints to this Sun.     Judge for yourself if the assault actually took place.
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on August 21, 2018, 08:37:40 AM
The actual date was May 9, 2013.  In her Jyotisha natal chart on that day, there were 5 transiting grahas (planets) in her 8th House...
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on August 21, 2018, 08:39:38 AM
Here's  the May 9 link...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/19/us/asia-argento-assault-jimmy-bennett.html

Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: James Williams on August 21, 2018, 08:45:17 AM
http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?mode=3&script=hk&tran_input=graha&direct=au

 ;)
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Pamela Young on August 21, 2018, 04:45:31 PM
The actual date was May 9, 2013.  In her Jyotisha natal chart on that day, there were 5 transiting grahas (planets) in her 8th House...

Thank you, James.  Using the tropical zodiac, those 5 planets (the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus and Mars) were all in Taurus, in her 8th house.  Venus was conjunct her natal South Node in Taurus in the 8th, and squaring her natal Venus in Leo in the 11th house. 

Well, put all that on the back burner for a moment.  When you look at the transits for this most recent news, which the New York Times published on Sunday August 19, the Moon was in Sagittarius transiting through her 3rd house (communication), where it first conjoined her natal Neptune (confusion; deception; hidden things), then opposed her natal Mars in Gemini in the 9th house; her Mars rules her 7th house (partnerships; the public).  And, transiting Mars was in Capricorn in her 4th house (family; roots; safety) squaring her natal Chiron in Aries in the 7th house.  So she has some kind of an incurable wound about being (or not being) in charge, which involves itself with her relationships.  Interestingly, Anthony Bourdain said that the most awful thing she ever said to him (this was well before he committed suicide) was that he always had to win; he said this was not true.  It looks like this was something she was projecting. 

Anyway, the day she is alleged to have committed sexual assault she was experiencing a major hit to her 8th house, which comes under Taurus in her chart, and both of her parents' charts were strongly implicated (we have complete data for both charts; see AstroDatabank).  It's a rather fascinating psychological mystery, though I don't suppose the guy who accuses her of assault cares.
Title: Re: Anthony Bourdain
Post by: Pamela Young on August 21, 2018, 06:40:18 PM
Just saw on TV that Asia Argento is denying that she ever had any sexual relationship with the person accusing her of assault.  She says she considered him a friend only, and that the payment she made to him was arranged by her then boyfriend, Anthony Bourdain, because he felt this person could be dangerous.    What about the photos, including the one of them in bed, naked from the waist up?  Curiouser and curiouser.

                                    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/us/asia-argento-statement-jimmy-bennett.html

"We are confident in the accuracy of our reporting, which was based on verified documents and multiple sources," said Danielle Rhoades Ha, a spokeswoman for The Times.  "It is worth noting that Ms. Argento, her lawyer and agent were contacted repeatedly and given four days to respond to the story."