2012 - doomday

[Evargorotte]

Hi

I've looked a trailer for the "2012". I was interested in this theme.
Please advise me a good site on this topic.
And what do you think about the end of the world 2012.

Thanks.

[Barbara Ybarra]

Hello:

I won't advise you on a good site on this topic because there are so many good ones to choose from.  What you want to do is follow your own instincts on the topic, using the good old-fashioned  www "serendipity" that people were so fascinated with in the beginning of its use.

The night the movie comes out all over the world will be Friday, Nov 13.  On Saturday, the first of the squares between Saturn and Pluto become exact.  Friday night the Sun is square to Chiron.  I think that says a lot in terms of sending a message of awareness to vast amounts of people.  Movies are made for the $$$.  That doesn't stop them from having other meanings.

Certainly it may frighten some people who are beginning to take seriously some of the doomsday talk.  For me, the movie will be a rush, like when I stand in front of a jet at an air show that is going faster than the speed of sound only yards away from me....and then experience the boom that shakes the earth.  I'm sure it will irritate me as well, when the movie spews out half-researched and incorrect information about the 2012 phenomenon.

I think a good discussion could begin with the chart of Dec 21, 2012.  Jupiter is at midpoint between Saturn and Pluto, in the position that was traditionally called the "finger of God".  This forum belongs to Noel Tyl and is imbued with his wisdom, knowledge, and personality.  He is also tolerant and kind, and if 2012 isn't his favorite subject, he may not mind others discussing the astrological aspects.  But I think it could get quickly out of hand as well.

Barbara Ybarra 

 

 

[mizscorpio]

Interesting to me how the number '8' has shown itself again for a movie that will make it big at the box office.

Nov. 13th 2009 adds up to an '8'. Power and success.

The 'Dark Knight' movie was also an '8', released July 18th 2008. That was the 1st time I noticed the numbers in relation to movie success. I haven't paid attention since, but knowing that this movie will be huge, it's no surprise that it carries the '8' energy as well.
And of course the Saturn square Pluto says it all

By the way, how would you like Nov. 14th to be your birthday?

Your solar return had the Saturn/Pluto square exact?

Makes me wonder what my year will bring...Oh and Prince Charles too!

Sandra Enos-Down

[stargazer]

December 21/22 depending on where you are on the Globe heralds in the Winter Soltice in Northern Climes, while the Summer Soltice in the Southern Climes begins. Interesting chart!

What # 8 has drawn in for me is money issues! Good luck with it - guess I had some!

I'm pretty happy with my Birthday where it is thanks..<g>! I'll leave it there!

stargazer.

[Noel Tyl]

 A further note on this subject, please:

Adrian Gilbert, author of "2012 Mayan Year of Destiny,"  and co-author of "The Mayan Prophecy" and many more fabulously interesting books, including "The Orion Mystery" and "Signs in the Sky" ... and more, is a firm, fine friend of mine.

During my recent tour to Germany and Russia, I was asked many times about the world ending in 2012.  I told my audiences that Gilbert had assured me that we woud all still be here, business as usual for 2013.  --I added that the formidable data manager-Myans had just run out of stone in their sculpted notations for history!!!!  ;-)  and didn't continue past 2012.

Today, in a discussion with Gilbert, I asked him to make a statement for the Forum here on this subject....

This is what he shares with us....

"The Mayans had an extraordinary ability with mathematics but what most
people don't realise is that their famous Long Count calendar was geared in
to galactic astronomy. The world won't end on December 21, 2012 but it is
entering a new cycle as a symbolic door is opening in heaven. In so far as
mankind is linked into this cycle, I believe this signifies an opportunity
for graduation. For some there will be the rewards of hard labour, for others
perhaps a harsher judgement. Of one thing I am certain: we stand on the cusp
of mighty changes, and it will be up to each one of us to surf the wave of
possibilities this time offers for our evolution."

---Thank you, dear Adrian


Noel Tyl

[Michael Symms]

Thank you Noel and Adrian!

I think Adrian's wise and balanced view of the very meaningful 2012 subject is one of the most sensible and visionary perspectives I've seen - amidst so much rampant sensationalism.  Thank you for presenting this here.   

Michael Symms

[Barbara Ybarra]

Hello:

I am a member of Adrian Gilbert's Invisible College.  You can join up on-line if you wish, I believe for about 10 British pounds.  There is a lot of information there from various people including Adrian himself.  Adrian is a Christian, and leans toward the belief that the 2012 phenomenon incorporates a type of "second coming" realization, perhaps not as literally as some might interpret that.  To say that the Mayans simply ran out of calendar space is dismissive, although I'm sure it was said in humor.  Saying that we are "on the cusp of mighty changes" is certainly a far cry from saying that it will be "business as usual in 2013".   I'm personally not sure how we can see such dire suggestions for predictions for 2010 in the essays this month (for worldwide) and then think that nothing is going to be very different in our world (or should be).

The astrology for 2012 is broader in its reach than we usually tend to in astrological studies.   It encompasses the astrological "ages" caused by precession, and is in fact relatively based upon it.  The Mayans counted in increments of time which we are not accustomed to, but there was nothing arbitrary about it.   It is corroborated throughout the world in other ancient sites.  Adrian Gilbert is one of the early researches of this and has accumulated much archaeological-celestial information.  It is his life's work.  And for what?  Certainly not so that we can expect business as usual.  If you want to understand what the 2012 changes are about, I suggest reading Pierre Tielhard de Chardin.  He was not an astrologer.
Barbara Ybarra     

[SGFoxe]

i majored in anthro many many years ago before i fell down the rabbit hole that is astrology -- of course i discovered mayan astrology many many years ago. 

2012 is first of all posited on the GMT correlation between the Mayan long count and our calendar -- gmt is short for goodman martinez thompson, the anthropologists who worked out the correlation #.  this version of the mayan calendar is the fifth Great Age of 5000+ years which began in August 3114 bc.

the very awesome thing about this fifth great age inception is that is about 11 years before the Hindu Kali Yuga in 3102 bc -- cosmically vernal point conjuncting aldebaran which is a compelling argument for the gmt.

what the mayans are measuring is the 26k year precession cycle which is broken into 5 equal 5K+ cycles, this the final of the great ages -- the zeroing out of the long count -- actually points to the Galactic Center at 5 Sidereal Sagittarius conjuncting the capricorn solstice which occurs actually in 2227 ad.

since the mayans work with iterating cycles and numbers each great year has a specific # of days ... i worked around for a different correlation, setting the end point to the Winter Solstice 2227 -- using the julian date, i then subtract the requisite number of baktuns and got a more astrologically interesting date which resonated with the chart for the end of time in 2227. Seriously. The Mayans were about one pluto cycle shy -- pluto the gc and the solstice all conjuncting -- 2012 is just a rehearsal

When the GC at 5*Sag conjuncted the Cancerian Solstice some 13K years ago, that was the end of the ice age ... agreed there aren't a sufficient number of examples to perform statistical legerdemain, but global warming as an issue when gc conjuncts solstice ... pulling in all that cosmic energy ...

well, there is a 99.9907% chance that there will be a January 1, 2013 -- i haven't quite figured out the odds of there being a January 1, 2228

[Stephen]

Thank you, sir!!

 

[Midastouch]

Dear  SGFoxe,


Thank you , and AMEN! 

IF astrologers want to be taken "serious", then it behoves us to not get "sucked into", mass histeria  , book writers ( Mercury/trickster) and movie makers (Neptune/illusions).

And regarding wars, history tells us that it's not a "new thing", and with billions of people on this planet as we chat, the odds are against humans ever being peaceful with one another " sad to say".

BTW: Population experts seem to suggest that about 2,000 years ago there  were about 380+ million people on earth (about the population of the USA'S  last census  in 2000).

 

Mida

[Jamie Partridge]

I think a good discussion could begin with the chart of Dec 21, 2012.  Jupiter is at midpoint between Saturn and Pluto, in the position that was traditionally called the "finger of God". 

There was another like that on 19 May 1989 but Saturn and Pluto were in reversed positions. The Tienmen Square protest had escalated that day. "The national press, then still relatively free to cover ongoing events without propagating the party line, aired the talks between Premier Li Peng and student leaders on the evening of 18 May." wiki. Martial law was declared in Beijing on 20 May. On it's own that configuration doesn't seem to have produced that dramatic an effect, but it was activated by a New Moon in Beijing on 04 June 1989 at 4:43 am. By 5:40 am the Square had been cleared leaving many thousands dead. The chart for 19 May shows Jupiter at 13gem25. The New Moon was 13gem12.


19 May 1989 Beijing.

[Jamie Partridge]

the very awesome thing about this fifth great age inception is that is about 11 years before the Hindu Kali Yuga in 3102 bc -- cosmically vernal point conjuncting aldebaran which is a compelling argument for the gmt.

Could you explain this a bit further please? Specifically the importance of Alderbaran being at the vernal point back then. I know the orb is wide but Alderbaran will be with Jupiter on 21 December 2012. I work it out to be 64' past Jupiter. Ain is closer at 15' before Jupiter. Between the Bulls' Eyes!


21 December 2009 Stonehenge.

[Barbara Ybarra]

Dear Funkstar:

These are interesting posts.  I like that you brought up the trouble at Tienmen Square and particularly the New Moon activation.  Very nice astrology.  The incident of the "unknown warrior" which occurred on June 5, 1989, who stood in front of 59 tanks, alone, seems an apt symbol of the fulfillment of the Jupiter=Pluto/Saturn.  The photograph was seen around the world as a picture of hope and faith and bravery.  Jupiter as an intermediary between the political constructs that come about from Pluto-Saturn would offer a point of hope.  It would require bravery, or perhaps a desperate retrieval of what is left to save (I believe that is Noel Tyl's definition of that midpoint)

The chart for 2012, with Saturn and Pluto in mutual reception instead of in their own signs, suggests the need for cooperative energy manifestation, maybe extremely volatile energy cooperation.  Jupiter as intermediary displays a critical role, at a critical degree...as you say, at the star Aldebaran, which was at the vernal equinox at the start of the Mayan calendar around 3000 BC.  Aldebaran, one of the four royal stars, the Watcher of the East, has been associated in the Western world, since the writing of the Old Testament (which belongs with the Jewish people and is shared with Christians), with Michael the Archangel, who is considered the general of God's army. According to the book of Revelations in the New Testament (which belongs with Christians), Michael the Archangel is one of the four horsemen of the apocylypse, the number one spiritual warrior for the end times.   Of course, make of this lore what you will.

Barbara Ybarra

[Jamie Partridge]

Hi Barabara,

I am familiar with the mythology of Alderbaran and have explored the archangel associations of the other three. What I am interested in now is researching mundane events that relate to Alderbaran so we have some facts to back up what our feelings are about the future. And there are a lot of us around with similar feelings about the future.

 Anne Wright found these: Events in History- Taurus

* Comintern launched by Lenin to promote world revolution Mar 3 1919 - SNode/Aldebaran
* Mohandas Gandhi begins civil disobedience campaign, - Mar 12 1930 - Jupiter/Aldebaran
* Lenin (Vladimir Ulyanoff) proclaiming the victory of the "Proletarian Revolution" 1917 Nov 7, 14:35 (local time, e.g. timezone 2h 01m 11s E) in Petersburg (59^55N 30^20E). The date was assumed by most Polish astrologers as a "birth" of Communist Russia. - Jupiter/Aldebaran

I've only just started exploring this further and found in 1893 there was a conjunction of Neptune and Pluto on Alderbaran. The Independent Labour Party of the UK has its first meeting on 13 January 1893. Definitely need to do a lot more work on this but it sure looks like there is a theme about socialism.

[Barbara Ybarra]

Funkstar and all:

I was just reading that Aldebaran and Antares (the Watcher of the West) were respectively opposed and conjunct to Mars on Jan. 31, 2003 when the Bush administration made the final decision to wage war on Iraq.  Just so you know, I hate war.

To others, who seem to want to wrap up the whole 2012 energy and throw it in the wastebasket, it might be of some use to ponder the 2020 Saturn-Jupiter conjunction in Aquarius.  The last time Saturn-Jupiter conjunction was in the sign of the approaching Great Age, Jesus was born in Bethlehem.  Life on this world does not seem as simple as looking back and saying such and such will happen again.  We either build on what we started out with until the mistakes can't support it any longer and the whole thing crumbles, or we advance to another level of being.  It works that way in our own personal charts, and it works that way with mankind as a whole.  Was it Yeats who asked what great beast was slouching towards Bethlehem to be born?

P.S.  I saw the 2012 movie. They got the astrology wrong.  Dumb movie but fun in parts, especially the wacko dude in Yellowstone. 

Barbara Ybarra