Noel Tyl
Astrology => General Astrology Discussion => Topic started by: Ken Haining on November 23, 2008, 01:00:50 PM
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I found it funny when a bunch of astronomers got together and "demoted" Pluto. Whether you want to call it a planet, a planetiod, or a Klingon spy satellite, it still packs the same punch.
On my chart, Pluto going into Capricorn marks the end of transiting Pluto conjuncting my Natal Mars-Ascendant conjunction, and sextiling my Mercury. Thus it clearly goes into my first house. When it gets to the mid degrees it might kill me, as it squares my Natal Sun, Saturn, and Neptune conjunction in Libra, while at the same time it opposes my Moon-Uranus conjuction in Cancer. Oh well, I survived transiting Neptune and Uranus in Capricorn. Maybe I'll survive Pluto, the "non planet."
In any event, I would suppose that the slowest moving of the outer planets, (sorry, I still call Pluto a planet) changing signs would always be significant on everyone's chart. As I mentioned in another post, before the other forum got obliterated, Barbara pointed out that it would denote a more conservative, and sensible approach to world finances. That does seem to be the focus of the hour.
I will watch with interest as Pluto moves into Capricorn in a few days.
Ken
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without a doubt Ken
natal position of Pluto marks the generation one is in
Pluto moving into Capricorn begins a time of 'inconjuctness' for those with Pluto in Leo (older baby boomers) and 'opposition' for those with Pluto in Cancer
Pluto having moved through Sagittarius was applying 'square' pressure on those with Pluto in Virgo (Gen X's) and seeming 'sextile relaxedness' from those with Pluto in Libra (these folks will now feel the pressure of the 'square')
note: countries with Pluto in Capricorn will experience the Pluto return....
regards
mL
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Ken,
Pluto ingressed into CApricorn on January 26th, 2008. He has 'to and fro-d' over 2008 back into Sagittarius - the tranist is considered to be 'in' once the Planet is within 2 degrees of the next Sign or House Cusp. He will be T Capricorn till 2024 - a few of us may not be round by then...<g>! He is opposing my Cancerian planets as we speak and there is nought I can do to aleviate what he may bring into me here or take from me. I could worry but there is no point - Pluto will take what he has come for.
Even now with the first few degrees of Capricorn activated by Pluto's transit we can see he means business and big business is in his sights! He will line them up like ducks! Just as Pluto's purge of the church was evident while he was in Sagittarius he will shake all the trees and look under all the rocks while he is visiting Capricorn. Multinationals, Authority Figures, Prime Minsiters, Presidents, Goverments and CEOs will all be on his list - expect corruption to be rooted out and dealt with during this time. Pluto may be considered not to be a Planet or not even an Asteroid - he is a slow mover but he is slow mover but a big worker and we wont know just how big until some years down the track.
Australia and the UK have their Sun in conservative Capricorn, while the USA has their Sun in Cancer!
sunflower
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Hi Sunflower.
I have noted that when a planet does the "back and forth" between two signs, you get a "taste" of the next sign. However, when it goes in to the next sign with no further retrogrades into the previous sign, there is a distinct shift to the sign it is going into. Pluto is still distinctly in Sagittarius at the moment. We got a taste of Pluto in Capricorn when it poked its nose into that sign, but when it goes into Capricorn with no further retrogrades, there will be a much more distinct effect on the world and on individual charts. That has been my observation.
Ken
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Ken,
I would not quarrel with your reasoning here - we have sampled a tatste of what is to come and is just around the corner.
sunflower. :)
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The history of Pluto:
If you look back from it’s discovery you will see a certain stigma that has been associated with Pluto as well as all the outer planets. It takes a few generations for the world to assimilate their effect and to use the energy in a positive way.
I have found it to be likened to the way a planet stations over an area.The first passing is usually a psychological shock treatment when it stations over a critical degree or planet then as it moves Direct it is better understood and used.
The same can be said for Pluto as it’s not to welcomed into the consciousness at first and if you fight it’s effect you only come away worst off . At the time of the discovery look at what was going on. Criminal activity as well as the Nazi rise. Both done in secret activity to deceive others as well as to create havoc and disruption. Both found a cult following which turns out to be a delusion from what is right. As we moved forward we used or associated Pluto’s energy with the atomic age for better or worst depending on what view you take as there are many positives as well as negatives associated with it’s use.
The New Pluto:
Everything means something and I was born in the Virgo-Pluto generation SD.That means that I have a very active Pluto IMO. Any SD planet has a certain activity which one needs to get out. They are deeper misunderstood as Pluto veils activity also. Not in a deceiving way as Neptune may ,but on an abrupt forward way.
The new way we are to associate this new view of Pluto might be that it’s negative force might be neutralized to a certain degree as not as much power in the negative sense is to be associated with it IMO.
It has not been Demoted as much as realigned with what might be a subtle shift from it being the harboring bad tidings to those having it prominent in their charts. I have found that the outer planets to be malefic until their energies can be understood and used by a subject for advancement instead of being misunderstood and fought aginst, Look at Neptune for the fog of being used negatively and therefore fought against .If that be so then the subject falls into disintegration and fights against it’s energy making matters worst through Alcohol and Drug use. In its positive manifestation it might mean the idealism to help other or the religious leaning to be addressed as well as the creative spirit.
Pluto-Cap
This shall be the time of revolutionary change for world governments and those that have power.In it's worst manifestation those having power shall decieve many and use it's power to decieve then destroy others.We have some Grand Crosses which shall be the awareness of where our leaders are coming from in the next few years.
I would elaborate my opinion ,but I think I have said enough for now.
A better platform to Post. Thanks Noel~!
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LE Grac,
What I have observed and have personal expience of is that if an Outer Planet is Angular - conj Asc. the energy of the Outer Planet is personalised and becomes part of the individual's personality. I have Uranus conj my Asc. so I do like change and I have no probs. accepting change.
I had Pluto T my 8th House and Saturn T my 2nd while trying to get a settlement. I was very aware of the likely outcome and did not stress over it. But I did not do too well, but so be it - the Sky Gods left me enough to build on. We cant argue with them or fend them off in any way.
sunflower.
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Hi Sunflower.
I have Mars on my Ascendant, and I am always looking for something to bash my head into.
With Neptune smack on the Midheaven, I wonder if I should be more compassionate.
With Uranus square the Sun, I think, oh well, change is good, as Pluto sextile the Sun laughs and says, "It it is good that it was destroyed!"
And then Sun tightly conjunct the Sun says, "Lets build something that will last this time."
And Mercury sextile Mars, sextile Pluto, sextile the Ascendant, and conjunct Neptune says, "This is all good fun."
So many astrological factors, so little time!
Ken
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Whoops, that should say, Sun tightly conjunct Saturn. The Sun is always tightly conjunct the Sun!
Ken
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LE Grac,
What I have observed and have personal expience of is that if an Outer Planet is Angular - conj Asc. the energy of the Outer Planet is personalised and becomes part of the individual's personality. I have Uranus conj my Asc. so I do like change and I have no probs. accepting change.
I had Pluto T my 8th House and Saturn T my 2nd while trying to get a settlement. I was very aware of the likely outcome and did not stress over it. But I did not do too well, but so be it - the Sky Gods left me enough to build on. We cant argue with them or fend them off in any way.
sunflower.
Hi Ken\Sunflower:
I agree as to it's effect for you. I would also pointout that the most dramic effct for any planet is not to have it angular ,but to have a planey 5Deg. before any angle as I have a few. You will have to study the Gauglein(?) effect and have his writings to see what I am saying.
If you have any angle highlighted ,which I do also,then it will be prominent so do not misunderstand me.I only agree with the author that it will be an unconscious level that the planets energy must be used.
As you have observed it's power was diminished when it T a secondary house which I found also to be the case.
As far as death is concerned I would not play as much into it's effect as to be reinventing ones selfh when it transits anywhere. We go though deep psychological and physical changes when an outer planet passes over an angle which depends on where the outer planet is at birth,but I know you know all this.
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LE Grac,
Yes I have heard and read about the Gaugeins - they did Astrological research as they had no belief in Astrology. The idea was/is that Planets 10 degrees before an Angle and 15 degrees after an Angle are important.
The Traditionalists believe Cadent Planets have no strength. I really have not found Cadent Planets this way myself. The reasoning is that Cadent Planets are always striving to move into the Angluar House but keep getting 'ripped away' by the 'turn of the wheel'. Comments welcome.
sunflower
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I have only observed Pluto half-heartedly in my lifetime, but my take on Pluto is that it destroys. Just as Neptune’s influence is felt in waves that we get hints of several years beforehand, Pluto moves underground and we feel his tremors several years before we get the full force. When Pluto transits natal Neptune, one’s illusions are shattered. When Pluto transits a sign, all the things ruled by that sign are permanently disfigured. With Pluto’s first entry into Virgo at the end of 1956, the whole 1950s idea of purity and virginity began to crumble. Teenage pregnancy and juvenile delinquency had an alarming rise. With the ready availability of the birth control pill in the early 1960s, the virginal ideal completely died as the Neptune in Virgo generation looked on in horror. By the end of 1971 when Pluto first entered Libra, the idea of marriage took a hit. During the 1970s cohabitation rather than marriage not only became acceptable, but the norm. With the advent of several incurable sexually transmitted diseases in the early 1980s, the idea of life as a sexual free-for-all was stopped in its tracks with Pluto’s entry into Scorpio in 1983. For a lot of people the wages of sex was death. Professional sports had taken some hits beforehand (e.g., the Pete Rose scandal in 1989), but as Pluto moved through Sagittarius, more and more criminal behavior among sports figures shocked the public (O.J. Simpson, Mike Tyson, etc.) The travel industry was also ruined by the events of 9/11. Travel was no longer easy or as much fun as it had been in the past. I think that with Pluto’s transit through Capricorn, basic structures will be undermined and destroyed. The U.S. Constitution has been under attack for several years. Political Correctness took away Freedom of Speech and the U.S. Senate’s acquittal of Bill Clinton for perjury and obstruction of justice made the previous idea that no one is above the law obsolete. Look for the Constitution to be rendered completely meaningless by end of Pluto’s transit through Capricorn. The U.S. will probably be a de facto Socialist country by then.
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LE Grac,
Yes I have heard and read about the Gaugeins - they did Astrological research as they had no belief in Astrology. The idea was/is that Planets 10 degrees before an Angle and 15 degrees after an Angle are important.
The Traditionalists believe Cadent Planets have no strength. I really have not found Cadent Planets this way myself. The reasoning is that Cadent Planets are always striving to move into the Angluar House but keep getting 'ripped away' by the 'turn of the wheel'. Comments welcome.
sunflower
Ken:
I had thought he was an astrologer who did statistical research to see what planets and placements might effect vocation. What he found was interesting.
I have his book or one of them which I read from time to time, but I only use what I read that works for me. It is only 5 degrees before the angle which is usually used I thought and are primary points which seem to influence a person more then if it has already gone over the angle. That is only what I have found though. A planet which can be seen as a good tool is Uranus just before rising or just before the MC in the 9th. That is only what I have observed though. I stretch orbs at times also. An example is Hitler’s Uranus 12th just before the Ascendant.
Uranus in Succedant Houses holds weight .I had never seen any planet to not be of marked influence in some way so I would not agree with what was written. They all play a part. Einstein’s Uranus in the 3rd is one example of that.Any planet found in the first three houses seems to color the personality IMO.
Getting back to Pluto:
When it enters into Cap to stay I think it shall bring revolutionary change for government control which shall be fought against at first. Change is something which many cannot accept willingly. Pluto is abrupt change and Obama shall make some great strides to get the country back on track .
I am glad that a Washington insider shall be in office instead of a Governor who is a yes man that just goes along with what his cabinet might think as that has been the scenario for to long. Clinton was more decisive and a Rhodes Scholar ,Bush I was told was warned not to get in to politics because he was not to smart. I think it shows.
I fear for the new president as it is Tecumseh’s curse this term which shall hang over his head. I have to wonder if there might be an assault of some kind to take his life.
I have not studied his chart in detail yet and I wonder what it foretells. It might be worthy to look at both his and Biddens charts to see what might be occurring in the next yrs..We have some major alignments which shall influence all of us.
I just visited Dallas and was lucky enough to have meet and spoken to a few of the players involved in the JFK investigation. Those I spoke to believed there were 4 gunmen which I never knew before. I was convinced that Oswald acted alone until I spoke to these men who were there. One was a Dallas police officer which took part in arresting Oswald and knew all the officers involved in the tragedy. Most were on the take and paid by Ruby I bet. A Stripper says that Oswald knew Ruby also. I was told that Ruby actually sent or called Tibbits to kill Oswald ,but Oswald fired first.
Oswald had an easy shot as I was also trained to shoot a rifle in the Marines and he served in the same Marine Air Group as I did. He was not a stupid guy I know that much,but his beliefs were at odds with those he knew.
Anyway a lot is riding on what happens in the U.S. in the next years and the curse might be alleviated as it was during the Reagan years. He did not escape unharmed either as he came very close to death also.
The charts for all hese events need further research IMO. I have looked at the charts of the JFK event and Mars plays a prominent part. I forget were Pluto was. The ingress of Pluto into a new sign always brings a force of change that is fought against at first I think. Pluto ingresses into Sag and we saw philosophical belief systems tested. Now it shall be governments that shall be put to the test. Osama will tick many people off as he shall take away the gravy train to many rich people have enjoyed over the last 8-12yrs. I think. He is adopting a mess.
Pluto and the sign Scorpio I have always associated with Marine Corps boot camp whereas it tears down ones identity and builds things anew. The more one fights against such change the harder things become for ones self so it might be easier to float along until one can recover and sort things out.
IMO Obama is already signaling great change to come. Bush is not at all happy now and I wonder why? I wonder if Obama had something to say to him when they meet that tee’d him off?
This is very speculative on my part and I do not have my regular computer with all my data to look at at this time. I have been right aabout somethings and wrong about others so we shall see what this ingress into a Cardinal sign brings us. Smaller shall be in I think. Scaling back and being a miser shall be part of the coming years. I hope that the new president shall make strides for new systems as for energy as Bush has been for Big Biz and the little guy has gotten screwed. The war is a farce.
JFK and history should have been studied by Bush as JFK learned not to trust all he was told by his cabinet after the Bay of Pigs debacle. Many presidents have made the same mistake. LBJ on Vietnam,Nixon with Watergate. Obama just might be his own man I hope. It is not wrong to ask for opinions,but he has to be decisive and go by his own thoughts not everything that he is told. Bush Sr. I seen descibed his son as being mislead by those he has around him which brought him to tears.He does not agree with his son on many points.
Pluto and the underground revolutionary period is to commence when Obama takes office and like JFK many shall not like what is to happen I think.If something were to happen to Obama it would be ashame to see Bidden be president. These next three years will have the world involved and the U.S. must take the lead .If not then the consequences will be dire and we will lose face in diplomatic diplomacy.
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Hi Crabman
Interesting observations of Pluto's transits through the signs. Ideally, something would be torn down, and something better put in its place. However, the human race rarely achieves the ideal. You have given me food for thought.
Ken
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Hi Le.
With Pluto moving into Capricorn I would think the emphasis would be on replacing a structure that doesn't work with one that does. Tearing down the old structure is the traumatic part, and the challenge is in coming up with something that is better, and not worse. Crabman gave me some food for thought, in that there may be more tearing down than building up.
I personally think that the best societies have a balance between capitalism and socialism. I, being Libra, always see both sides, and look for that balance. Israel seems to be the best example of it. In other words, people shouldn't be put out on the streets with no home, or food, or resources, but at the same time, working hard, having talent, having intelligence, and being superior in some way should still allow a person to prosper above the norm. Pluto tends to go too much to extremes, and my point of view is that this is where the danger really lies.
You mentioned the danger to Obama. It would even be possible for him to be injured or killed before he took office. Saying that he would send more troops into Afghanistan is enough to cause some psychos to seek a glorious death in killing the U.S. president elect. When they are spraying acid on girls you have a definite indication of how violent prone they are.
So we will see what happens over the coming years of Pluto in Capricorn.
Ken
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When Pluto transits a sign, all the things ruled by that sign are permanently disfigured.
This is what Crabman stated and I can definitely report that is so true. I was born with 1 degree of Pluto in my 7th house 150 degrees from my 1 degree Capricorn Ascendant.
I have lived with that aspect all my life. My whole personality has been effected by Pluto's effect.
I have an identical twin who was born 8 minutes after me and she has not had the same physical effect on her life that mine has.
While I was in my teens, I developed a very bad case of Acne, which left big scars, dents, and pits on my face. Yet my twin sister had beautiful skin and no Acne.
My mother took me to a good good doctor and I underwent 15 x-ray treatments on my face, as that is how they treated Acne in the 1950's. Then I underwent 3 operations that literly used a drill all over my face and neck, and shaved off the outer layers of skin. I was then wrapped in bandages all over my face and went to my grandparents house so they could take care of me. Poor grandpa had to remove the bandages and it took a long time for him to do it. He had to use hydrogen peroxide drops at a time while he pulled the stuck bandages off my face. It took him hours to do it. This was done with out any pain killers or anaesthetic. They just put ice bags on my face and when the skin was cold enought they started drill it off.
I asked them to cover all the mirrors in the house so that I did not see my face while it healed.
Three times I went through that, and I still had Acne up until I was in my 30's.
Now that I am in my late 60's there are deep pits and scars on my face. I am now developing small volcanoes on my face that just gets bigger as I get older. The doctors tell me to learn to live with it.
I refuse to wear makeup everyday because I think that if people can not accept me as I am then so be it. It is there loss not mine, because I am a very interesting person who is loyal and caring.
I forgot to ad that when I was born my twin sisters umbilical cord was wrapped around my neck
(my Saturn is in Taurus) and was slowing straggling me. I was thought to be dead, so the doctor concentrated on saving my twin. I was throw into a bassinate (baby crib) and left on my own. But I survived. I was luckly that Jupiter was at 2 Taurus and trining my 1 degree Capricorn Ascendant.
My face determined who I was going to be married to as only someone else who was as deeply scarred as I was, could understand what it was like to go through life with scars.
Fortunately I discovered astrology when I was going through my first saturn return.
36 hours after Pluto entered Capricorn, I suffer a stroke which left me with one dropped eye. One eye had the correct vision, but the other eye was slanted so I had to close that eye as it was double vision.
I never knew that eye balls could drop down, but they do. Fortunately the eye did return to its proper position.
I have discovered one thing that could possible explain the difference between my twin and I. At the age of four I suffered from acute appendicitis and had to have it removed. I have read that they are beginning to realize what the appendix is used for. It is used to store probiotics so that under times of stress the biotics can be rush out of its store house and sent to the parts of the body that need healing.
Last Thanksgiving a lovely lady sent me some kefir grains and what a difference that has made in my life. Kefir grains are put into milk and it builds its own probitics. I drink one qt of mild kefir, and 3 cups of water kefir.
Now at age 68, my hair is growing back, and the gray hairs that I had are developing a lot of red pigments, much to my delight. Have you ever heard of a woman my age is is growing a new head of hair and the color is coming back? I have not. My doctor is amassed! I still have the scars on my face, neck and upper back, but the skin is really looking very lovely and healthy.
So Pluto has definitely made a big impact in my life. All the men in my life where born around October 31 to Nov 5, true Scorpios. And my dear friends have Scorpio suns, moons or ascendant. I can not seem to get away from these Scorpios as they have so much to teach me. I have learned so much from them. My mother was a Scorpio.
Now Pluto is moving into Capricorn and it will go over my ascendant and my husbands ascendant as he has 1 degree of Cancer rising. We are living in different parts of the world and can communicate through our web camera's and Skype.com free connections service. But I am learning to live alone, meaning without his physical presence. We are just friends now as he is living with another young lady and helping her to raise her 2 year old child. I am definitely past the child rearing age and he is welcome to his new life experience.
In my 68 years of living, I have been married for over 47 years to 3 different husbands.
Who knows what tomorrow will bring, and each day I thank God for allowing me to live just one more day so I can enjoy all the wonderful things that we have in this world. I know that I will be going to that big tent in the sky they call as the other side. I fear it yet I welcome it. It would be wonderful to start all over again, after some resting time and reviewing my life.
Happy Thanksgiving to Everyone all over this World!
Colleen
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When Pluto transits a sign, all the things ruled by that sign are permanently disfigured.
For long Astrologers have considered India to be ruled by sign Capricorn.
Today , Indian city Mumbai suffered a planned terrorist attack..
Wonder , if we are seeing , the likely results of Pluto , it having already started affecting Capricorn!
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Pluto was my first thought as I read the terrible news from Mumbai. I've always thought of India as being a gentle country (?). It will be sadly interesting to see how this event unfolds, and the effect it has on India and the world. I wonder if they chose that city because it's a financial center?
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Hi MelissaK
These attacks have been going on in India all year. However, the terrorists are now targeting Westerners, especially British and Americans, so that the result is there is much more media coverage than there was for the other attacks. It is the thinking of the authorities in India that the terrorists are deliberately doing this to get more worldwide coverage of their escapades, again, in the Western World.
The Hindu/Muslim clash has been going on for a very long time in India. The Hindus are what would be called the dominant and ruling class in India, and there is a lot of religious hatred between the two groups. The Hindu population is about 80% of the overall population.
India is expected to surpass China in world population over the next decade or so. Both China and India are predicted to surpass the United States in technological development in the next tens years or so. It will be interesting to see the effects that Pluto transiting Capricorn will have on these two giant nations.
Ken
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Startling Astrology
The horoscope of India drastically eloquently shows the country’s rise now into turmoil.
The chart is set for the proclamation of the Republic, presumed to be elected astrologically. [see Campion, “Book of World Horoscopes,” page 201. –Jan 26 1950 at 10:15 AM in New Delhi (Asc: 4Ari48). Immediately after the proclamation was read, the new government was sworn in.
The horoscope shows now SA Saturn = Pluto, with tr Saturn conjunct Saturn (the second Saturn-return), and transiting Pluto conjunct the Midheaven, building to partile in Spring 2009.
There are more measurements for sure, for your discovery and analysis; chief among them is SA Pluto=Neptune (which in Mundane Astrology ‘reads’ subterfugal power plays).
We see the SA Sun and the SA Moon very prominent in relation to the Angles. And that’s just it: India has entered the news in a big way …. And the Saturn and Pluto measurements tell the story.
Noel Tyl
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Dear Noel,
Why did this chart supersede the date of independence of August 15, 1947?
Don
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All,
With the New Moon today @ 5/49 in Sagittarius this will have a lot to do with the terror attacks in Mumbai. Time of the attacks was approx 10.05 pm in Mumbai from what I can pick up on TV news atm. Like Don, I am not sure which chart to use - the Independence from Britian August 15 1947 in Delhi?
sunflower :)
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Just read a news article that the world’s oldest living person died yesterday at age 115. Since Capricorn rules old people, I’m wondering if Pluto’s transit of Capricorn will unleash a series of devastating illnesses that are particularly dangerous to old people.
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Let's not forget Uranus has stationed direct as well...activating the Saturn opp Uranus in the skies atm
The political zeitgest in India at the moment appears to be a shift rightwards towards nationalism, expansionism and Hindu pride in achieving 'par value' status with former masters, now nuclear overlords.
The 'nuclear weapons' issue has been at the centre of this - Pluto. The recent agreement with the USA has been seen as a big leap for the status of the country in the eyes of the 'nationalists'.
It is interesting to note the 'terrorism' which occurred previously to this one in Sept were under current investigation by the India ATS (Anti-Terrorism Squad) whose head was killed in this current 'terrorism' incident. (There have apparently been numerous such incidents previously btw)
The 'terrorist suspects' captured were not muslims but HINDUS. There has been apparently a lot of umbrage taken due to this fact on the part of the ruling party and the head of the ATS was not a popular fellow as a result.
He is now dead.
An Indian astrologer might characterise the New Moon to be a Scorpio one...not a Sagittarius event. Note New Moon conj Mercury and Mars all in sidereal Scorpio. The terorists were very young and violent men.
Note too that Pluto is peregrine if one was to cast chart for start of the incident.
regards
mL
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Hi All.
The question of which chart to use can come up with many different countries. Most refer to the July 4, 1776 chart for the U.S., which was the Declaration of Independence. Some might argue that when George Washington was sworn in as President, that this would be the "true" chart of the United States. Or how about when the Constitution of the United States was ratified? Some could even argue that present day United States is based on the date that Hawaii was admitted as the 50th State on August 29th, 1959.
The theory would be that different charts would relate to different things. Is there one "dominant" chart? I suppose some might argue the point from one side or the other. Of course, the best way to determine which chart is best for which factors, is to meticulously go over major events and then look at each chart. It would take quite a bit of effort.
Obviously, there is a correlate with the chart of the Indian government that Noel used. Nothing wrong with looking at the independence chart and seeing what you can find as well.
By the way, there are some rumblings that India is going to blame Pakistan for the attacks. So, it might be worth taking a peak at Pakistan's chart as well.
Ken
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Ken,
There does appear to be evidenc that a group of young Pakistanis could be responsible for the Mumbai attack - November 26, 2008 @ 10.05 pm. Small rubber boats have been found along the shoreline indicating these rubber boats were used for the attackers to infiltrate Mumbai unoticed.
Using the Delhi chart - January 26th 1950 @ 10.15 am, Sec. Progs, New Moon 5/49 Sag., Attack chart 10.05 pm Nov 26 works very well. The Sag stellium of the Attack and New Moon charts are in 8th House - beliefs being the major motivator and the perpetrators being from another country. SP Sun is about to cross the 04/49 Aries Asc. bringin with it new energies.Pluto sits on the M/H @ 29/59 Sag in attack chart and 00.01 Cap New Moon chart - a very threatening energy is apparent here.
Pluto's energy is to regenerate rather than to pull down. He can precipitate a crisis becoming a tension eliminator and/or an agent for evolutionary forces at his best. The flip side is the annihilator, overforcefullly explosive and destroyer of all forms on the positve side. This is what we have seen here over the past few days. We will see a very different India rise from the ashes after this Pluto transit across the 3/06 Cap M/H. This is an extremely threating time for all. Something has to die for something to be reborn. The case for nuclear energy heightens this threat.
sunflower :)
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Ken,
Meant to add to my previous post that the second Saturn Return for India has occurred. N Saturn @ 18 Virgo in 6th, T Saturn @ 20 Virgo in 6th. Staying with the Delhi chart Saturn is the Ruler of the M/H - 10th House, 11th and 12th Houses. Looking at the Polarities the 4th, 5th and 6th Houses will be impacted too.
sunflower :)
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Hi Sunflower.
Good observations.
I, like you, would hope that the influence of Pluto would be an ultimately positive one. That is, tear down a structure that does not work (Capricorn) and replacing it with one that works at least better. With the sign of Pluto being in Capricorn, I would expect a return to those things that have proven to work in the past.
Crabman made me really think, however, how this has failed in the past, with things being torn down and NOT replaced with something better. Hopefully, with the Saturn opposite Uranus transit, there would be both a respect for the old, and the new. The challenge is to evolve, rather than to degenerate.
Ken
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Ken,
I'd be curious to hear what manifestations you will experience from Pluto squaring your Sun. If you don't mind sharing, that would be great! I know someone who's going to experience that same transit (his Sun in early Aries) and although everybody's experiences are different, it's still good to hear about them. He has Pluto ruling 7th and Sun ruling 5th... so my guess is that changes will center around love relationships. Since it's the Sun, I would imagine the changes in Ego/Self will be profound.
Btw, what happened with Pluto's transit over your ASC? Another friend of mine met someone and married while Pluto was transiting her ASC. She'd been single (divorced) for 10-15yrs or so, so it was a big change in her life.
I just had Pluto trining my ASC for the past couple of years. In my case, I learned to own my power so to speak. Overcame fears and learned to assert myself and put my foot down on certain issues which in turn made me feel more empowered, more of an adult. Even though it was a trine, the "lessons" didn't come easily - but the rewards have been outstanding. For the first time in my life, people have been treating me with respect! Even in my work, I've noticed that clients have been more respectful of me - not all cases... but more so than before. It's all relative. Very positive overall. Pluto was also trining my 7th house ruler but alas, nothing changed in that dept. (yet). I'm still single. However, you could say that I now relate differently to others as a result of that transit to my ASC/DSC which will most likely change the kind of relationships I will attract into my life.
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Venus Lady,
The next most challenging aspect coming up for all of us is the Mars moving applying to conj T Pluto. As we move towards late December we need to be watchful in personal situations and not act carelessly or recklessly. I believe this time may see some accidents we would care to avoid especially when it comes to travel by road and all kinds of vehicles. Any combustable materials should be handled with care, the home barb-e-cue is just one such appliance to keep a close eye on. Camp fires, portable cooking pots etc. coud flare up without notice - keep the fire blanket handy for such an emergency.
Mars will also be moving to an applying conj to the T Moon in Capricorn so it certainly is a time not to be hurried into beating the lights at crossings and watching for pedestrians, children who may act without any warning at this time. The Heavens could not give us better warnings.
suflower :)
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Hi VenusLady
Pluto just entered Capricorn, as you know, and my Sun is in the 18th degree of Libra, at 17 degrees 20 minutes Libra. It is tightly conjunct my Natal Saturn, also in the 18h degree of Libra, at 17 degrees 53 minutes Libra. Pluto will not come within orb of squaring that conjunction for a while. I went through having Uranus and Neptune square that area of my chart at the same time about 14 years ago. My Midheaven is 22 degrees 38 minutes Libra, and my Natal Neptune is 21 degrees 18 minutes Libra, and my Natal Mercury is 28 degrees 41 minutes Libra. (In case you are curious, and don't want to imagine this in your head, my birth info is 10/10/52, 12:02 PM, Far Rockaway, Queens, New York)
When Uranus and Neptune passed through mid to late Capricorn, my Universe was totally rearranged. I came into disagreement with the religious group I had been involved with for nearly 20 years, and eventually separated from them. Long story, but it was the most amazing whirlpool of events, and changes, that I could have imagined.
So, now Pluto, in a few years, will square all those planets in Libra and my Midheaven. Note that when something squares my Sun-Saturn conjunction in Libra from Capricorn, it also opposes my Moon-Uranus conjunction in Cancer. Should be intense when Pluto gets there, and a couple of years before it comes into tight orb I will be pondering it.
The transit of Pluto to my Mars-Ascendant conjunction was quite a trial. Keeping in mind that Neptune was squaring my Natal ruler, Jupiter in Taurus, at the same time. My Mars-Ascendant conjunction has a tight sextile from Mercury in the 10th house, and so my mind was very stimulated during this time. A lot of the stimulation was in the subject of astrology. However, there were many personal problems and unexpected set backs. However, in the end, it seems to have come out for the better in the long run. At times it seemed like I was being microwaved, but at the same time I felt mentally inspired. I relate the material set backs to the square from transiting Neptune in Aquarius to Natal Jupiter in Taurus. Favorable aspects from transiting Uranus and Jupiter have given me some relief. Just before Pluto left Sagittarius, I had an event that would seem bad, but I think in the long run will work out favorably. It started on the 23rd of October, about 3 PM Mountain Time, and ended on October 27th at 1 PM.
As soon as Pluto left Sagittarius I felt a lot of pressure leave me. I know some people might think that it was because I was expecting that, but really, I wasn't. Let's just say that a prevailing nervous tension has left.
Anyway, VenusLady, I hope that answers your questions.
Ken
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Ken,
Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, that 17-19 Cardinal degree is a doozie esp. when transits line up to create a T-square - definitely major times in your life - but with a Sun-Sat conj, you could use a little lightening up and not take things so seriously ;-) What I'm really saying is... astrology is a great tool as it gives us a heads up on the upcoming doozie transits and allows us to be aware of what might come... BUT... this is where I have a strong belief that depending on how strongly you believe in astrology, you can actually create unnecessary drama in your life and possibly make things worse for yourself. If you strongly believe that a particular transit will be hard, challenging or a killer (such as T. Pluto when it gets to 17-18 CAP) you may inadvertently create a worse scenario for yourself because of your expectations! Never underestimate the power of your beliefs and thoughts that repeat in your head!
The challenge is to be aware without expectations... let life surprise you. It might be something good! Squares are very energetic, so action takes place. It could be a number of things... I cannot tell you how many times I've had classic transits to either planets or midpoints that were a dead giveaway pointing to certain kinds of events (relationship, career, health, etc..) and the eventual outcome was completely different than what I expected!!! It almost made me lose faith in astrology. Astrology does work... things DO happen when transits kick in, but to think that we can predict WHAT will happen?! Well that's where the Universe is having the last laugh! ;-)
So... I'm just saying don't psych yourself out. Expect the BEST outcome... and prepare to be surprised.
Last year, I had SA Ven=Sun/Moon, Prog Ven=Sun/Ven (T. Uranus trining that Prog. Venus exactly) and T. Pluto trining my ASC among other things. I even had a Solar eclipse fall right on that Sun/Moon! I fully expected that some kind of relationship would come sailing into my life. Well, I did meet someone but all that ever developed was a platonic friendship which is fine as this person turned out to not be right for me anyway. The biggest changes and issues in my life this past year were career-related and health-related. Go figure. You could argue that Venus rules my 10th but Venus is STILL the planet of love no matter how you look at it. And Sun/Ven (which could mean popularity) to ME always means LOVE. If this friendship was the Universe's idea of LOVE, then the joke was on me! I also had T. Sat station on my Ven/Mar midpoint and squaring my Moon before going direct. I fully expected to feel depressed and almost worried that something might happen to my mother. Instead? I got new clients and well-paying jobs during that short period! Not what I expected.
So I'm just saying.. keep yourself open. You just never know.
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Hi VenusLady.
Actually, I have underestimated transits in the past, thinking, "Oh, I can handle that." Also, that Pluto transit, where it squares my Sun-Saturn-Neptune-Midheaven-Mercury in Libra, while opposing my Moon-Uranus in Cancer, is quite a ways off, and not concerning me right now. Probably the next challenging transit will be Uranus square my Mars-Ascendant.
I suppose the transits that I have underestimated the most are Neptune transits, with a square or opposition. I had some real trials with those. I am looking forward to Neptune trining my Natal Mercury, and sextiling my Natal Mars-Ascendant, as it leaves the square to my Natal Jupiter, and opposition to my Natal Pluto.
Ah, us Librans. Always looking for the perfect relationship with the opposite sex. And while we may appreciate those "Platonic" relationships, we do really want the whole package. ;D
Have a great day, VenusLady
Ken
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Probably the next challenging transit will be Uranus square my Mars-Ascendant.
When Uranus squared my ASC, I moved away from my parents' home for the first time and into the dorms at University. That year, I also fell in love for the first time. (Ura rules my 7th and in all fairness, Pluto was also squ my 5th house ruler and Nep was squ my natal Ven and hovering over my Sun/Moon).
When Uranus squared my Mars, I ended a long-standing relationship and I also moved across the country later that year (Mars rules my 9th and co-rules my 4th house).
I am looking forward to Neptune trining my Natal Mercury, and sextiling my Natal Mars-Ascendant,
That hasn't happened to me yet.. the trine to Merc - but when Nep trined my Sun, the spiritual side of me blossomed. It's as if a whole new world was revealed to me. Like putting on a pair of magic glasses and seeing the world in a whole different way. It wasn't rose-colored glasses either. It's just that I gradually came to understand the underlying spiritual principles that connect all of humanity. I also became increasingly "psychic". I suspect that since Merc rules one's thoughts and communication, you will probably have some telepathic experiences, learn how to channel maybe, or somehow become more in tune with the "unseen" forces of nature. Your dreams may become more vivid or prophetic (mine did) and so on.. It's kind of exciting actually! :)
Ah, us Librans. Always looking for the perfect relationship with the opposite sex. And while we may appreciate those "Platonic" relationships, we do really want the whole package. ;D
Yeeeeep.... LOL!
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Hi VenusLady.
Well, thanks for that freed back. Interesting stuff. Pluto is now transiting my first house, and so I am expecting a lot of "new starts," with old things being torn down, and new things replacing them.
And it will be nice when Neptune moves on to be in a position where it is not squaring or opposing anything on my Natal chart. Still have a while to go with Neptune opposite Natal Pluto.
Thanks again for your response.
Ken
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Hi all.
Any thoughts on the first conjunction of tranisting Sun to transiting Pluto after Pluto's decisive entrance into Capricorn? For me, it is the beginning of Pluto transiting the 1st house. Kind of a trigger experience. I anticipate Mars also going into Capricorn and conjuncting transiting Pluto on December 28th. For people with sensitive points on their charts relating to these transits I would expect some significant effects.
Any thoughts on the effects on the president elect with Venus at 1 degree 47 minutes Cancer?
Ken
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Yahoo news has an article slamming the banks that have recieved Billions. They don't know, or won't tell, where the money went. What could stink more?
I just impulsively enrolled in a signing class. I've gradually become very hard of hearing, and it's only getting worse. I've never seriously considered learning signing. My Gemini ascendant is affected here.
Pluto in my eighth house make me wonder who is going to die. Wierd, uncomfortable thought, hey?
I hesitate to consider our President-Elect. Seems losing his grandmother just before the election would have waited until now.
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Hi Melissa.
Sorry about your hearing. Medical researchers are making tremendous strides in that area of the medical field. It is getting to the point where technology may allow you to hear without your ears. Hopefully they will develop something that will completely compensate for your condition. It is a the Age of Aquarius, after all.
I was curious about the Sun coming conjunct transiting Pluto, as it did, and the effects on people whose charts have that as a sensitive point. Robert Hand noted in his book, Planets in Transit, which he wrote back in 1976, that the slow moving planets, which are transiting a major point on a Natal chart, are activated in their effects by usually the Sun or Mars. He said that occasionally Mercury would also act as a trigger, and I personally think that Venus has a triggering effect also, but it is more subtle. The Sun came to conjunct transiting Pluto early this morning, Mountain Time, and it is still within a one degree orb. Mars will conjunct transiting Pluto around noon on December 28, a second trigger less than a week later. So I am keeping an eye on it and curious about the effects on people whose charts have the first couple of degrees of Capricorn as a significant point on their Natal chart. I am naturally watching the President Elect.
I used to do sign language a long time ago. Like any language, you forget it if you don't use it. I used it with severely mentally retarded clients, or mentally handicapped, if you prefer, so that they would have as many different kinds of communication stimuli as possible. You never know what might work better for one or the other of them.
Thanks for your response.
Ken
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Hello Ken and all:
I finally had time to read all of these posts. This post about Pluto's grand entrance has been read quite a lot. I was very much in appreciation of Colleen's brave journey in life. I was also a little surprised that there were not more responses to Ken's Dec 21 question about the Sun's first conjunction with Pluto at the winter's solstice. I myself participated in a 2 and 1/2 hour group mediation on that day. It was not intended to be so long, but we all were getting into it, and it was at someone's lovely home in the woods with nothing to hear except the wood crackling in the woodstove and an occasional jaybird outside...maybe someone's stomach rumble.
Also surprising to me, is that no one has mentioned the galactic center alignment. Back when Pluto was at 27 Sagittarius there were mentions now and then regarding it, but without much as to what that might mean to anyone. Somewhere in this world there are some people who are very much concentrated on this cosmic event. The galactic center is of such enormous proportions that 27 Sagittarius perhaps might cover one edge of it. According to the Mayans, on Dec 21, 2012, the winter (summer down under) solstice Sun will be aligned significantly enough with the center of our galaxy that the Mayans have said that "time will end". The last time there was such an occurance was about 13,000 yrs ago, one half of one astrological great year ago, when the Sun's summer (winter under) solstice was aligned with the galactic center. According to scientists, that was an ice age. I think it is significant that Pluto is transiting to that winter solstice point just four years prior to the Mayan date, sort of setting us up in preparation. Let those who have ears hear.
If anyone would like to explore this further, there are many books on the subject. One such researcher is Adrian Gilbert, who is actually a friend of Noel's. That is no secret, because if you go to Adrian's website there is a link to Noel's site, and when I joined the forum there, Adrian welcomed me and lauded his praises on Noel whom he said was a good friend.
Wishing y'all a late winter solstice turning point. Now the days get longer again (in our Northern hemisphere of course). I ate so much over Christmas that my internal temperature was raised and I can turn the heater down in my house.
Barbara Ybarra
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Hi Barbara.
You said:
"The last time there was such an occurance was about 13,000 yrs ago, one half of one astrological great year ago, when the Sun's summer (winter under) solstice was aligned with the galactic center. According to scientists, that was an ice age."
Interesting, considering the climate has been going wacko for the last few years. One thing that science has established is that the climate on planet Earth tends to greatly vary over the ages. Another Ice Age?
Well, Mars, another trigger planet, is going to conjunct transiting Pluto tomorrow. I would suppose those who have a significant point on their Natal charts of 1 or 2 degrees Capricorn will be feeling the effects, including our President Elect. Loss of power for 11 hours on his vacation. What a strange event.
Thanks for that interesting post, Barbara
Ken
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I wonder if our president elect has begun saying, "Oh, Lord! I'm president!", from saying, "Oh, Lord!! I'm Pesident!!!" I feel sorry for the man. I hope he's able to be open to suggestions from his Grandmother's ghost spirit.
Winter Solstice, 2012?
I saw a late night science special on TV several years ago, that they did not repeat. It was about the Earth's temperature, and how scientists have been searching for physical records of it's changes, records of the ice ages..
They first drilled little cores into the hearts of our oldest trees, 3,000+ years, and studied the rings. Then they had Gubbmint help with a ship called the Glomar Challenger that was actually built at huge expense to lift a Soviet submarine that'd sunk in deep Pacific waters. Once that was done, the scientists were able to get deep cores of sediment to study. These cores went back to the beginning of the oceans. Sad that this ship isn't still out there doing science.
That lead to more questions, so they then managed to drill cores to the land under the Anarctic ice, to a place that'd never had snow, but to where the very first snow on Earth began accumulating. (I don't have a timeline for this)
What they found was that the Earth's temperature has bounced. When the Earth was first formed, it was very hot, moulten. Then cooling, gasses acumulated, and the atmosphere formed and settled into weather. There was enough rain to create the oceans. Hum, lotta rain, that.
So the line on the chart goes down, the Earth kept cooling, until one winter, there was the very first snow at the South Pole. This cannot be studied at the North Pole, because the North Pole has no landmass, it's a great ice sheet floating over water.
Then the heat slowly began accumulating, and the line on the chart climbed slowly over hundreds, thousands of years. Until it hit a certain heat, then it dropped into another ice age.
What they further found, once they had enough information, was that the 'bounces' in the heat chart, were getting shorter, just like if you toss a rubber ball onto a hard surface, it'll bounce less and less until it stays still. Earth is gradually losing it's formation heat from billions of years ago.
What the Earth is now experiencing is a much much much steeper bounce going up than any before. Just like a curve on a stockmarket chart, the numbers are jagged, but with a steady overall direction, wierdly steep now, and nearly as high as the max of the last bounce.
The bad news is that once this rising temperature average hits a tipping point, a point of no return, it doesn't gradually cool. It drops very sharply. Perhaps this alignment in 2012 will create some sort of doorway to the massive black hole that is the center of our galaxy, recently found, that will drain a lot of heat, energy? A guess on my part. We have other celestial bodies sheilding us except during this very short time spell, the one break in the Milky Way.
If their calculations are correct, the next ice age will happen in a time span of five years. From an Earth warm and fairly comfortably predictable, to a wildly cold place with totally different weather. Human's complicated social structure, mostly our food production, won't possibly adapt. How much of what you eat is produced within 100 miles of where you live?
Five years.
So... do we have four years left now to build a place to live that'll sustain us through the coming insanity, IF this opening and Mayan end of time is the beginning of the drop. The scientist did not make any prediction about when the five year drop will begin. But they did say we're very close.
Like I said, this science program was shown one time only, and beginning at eleven at night, competing with some very popular late night programs. Other science specials are aired many times, so you can catch one showing. But not this one.
Sigh. Sorry to get off astrology so far.
Melissa, scared again.
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Maybe this new Pluto is why I, and four people I know, were burglerized in the last few days. ugh.
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Hi Melissa
The problem we humans have is that we think things will continue to be the same. Astrology reminds us that this is never the case. A few powerful transits on our Natal charts show that things can really change a lot, and very quickly.
You are right to point to the food supply as critical in relationship to climate change. Global warming has actually resulted in longer growing seasons in a lot of the world. A sudden shift to a colder climate could be quite disastrous. The increase in technology, as we have entered the Age of Aquarius, is an amazing factor, and food production has been increased through agricultural technological improvements. However, we cannot ignore the bottom line elements such as the climate. Some people are under the delusion that technology can solve any problem we have. However, a serious food shortage can become so critical so fast that there would not be enough time to avoid disaster.
Hopefully things will go better than the worst case scenario with all this climate stuff. We will have to wait and see. Pluto in Capricorn may be a time of awakening people to the need to take care of the bottom line structures of human civilization.
Ken
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Just looking at some of the old posts from back in 2008/2009. What struck me was the number of views of any item, usually at least 2000 to 6000. This particular entry had 13000 views.
As you know, Saturn will be entering Capricorn at the end of 2017. It will also be beyond the 5 degree supporting sextile to Uranus, which historically buoys up the markets. I overlooked this with my last possible stock market crash date. This is the real one coming. Of course, Capricorn related areas such as the property market and pension funds will probably have problems.
That is, if the world doesn't end in 4 days time, according to some numerologists. Wish I could offer them $10,000 now, will pay them in a week, and they give me $1000 in a week if they're wrong... bet there would not be any takers. Like Stephen Hawking said about fatalists, they still keep their eyes open when they cross a busy road.
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Sorry, just realized that that didn't make sense, but you get the drift. Give them $10,000 today to have fun with for 3 days, they give you back $11,000 in a week if they're wrong. Not one would take you up.