Secondary, Tertiary, Minor Progressions

[MzLoretta]

This is my 3rd post here, I'm a little dusty with astrology these days.  Even though I intensely studied the art of astrology for close to 50 years, I've shifted my studies from astrology to music for the last 8 years.  Still, I come back to study the charts of friends and family to stay informed of the starry weather.  One reason I shifted my studies to music is that astrology takes me to dark places that I don't quite have the tools to understand or handle.  Playing music gives me a path through the darkness.  Playing a tune in Dminor gets me right through rough patches.  Born at a Pluto station here.

Forgive the long winded introduction (it's my way of saying that I'm probably not as diligent in my astrology these days)… my question is: do folks use Tertiary or Minor Progressions when analyzing someone's chart?  I've studied Progressions enough to kind of know how to describe them, but am not sure how to use them.  So far, I really only use Secondary Progressions in conjunction with looking at Transits to the nativity.  And then, I only look at the SP Moon, ASC & inner planets forming significant tight aspects.   I use Tertiary Progressions to look at stations and maybe key planets hitting natal angles.  I don't use Progressions as analysis tools alone, but more to see if there are any repeated patterns supported by the Nativity, Transits or other Progressions.

As a simple example, say somebody is wondering about when a new romantic relationship coming into their life.  I calculate a good time will be when transit Jupiter is chugging through their 7th house and Trining Venus.  By both Secondary and Tertiary Progression, the Moon will also be in their natal 7th house.  My simplistic astrology interpretation would be that things look pretty good for a new relationship forming at that time (barring some Neptunian delusion transits, etc.). 

Lastly, using Minor Progressions, I see that this person is experiencing MP Pluto conjuncting the Natal ASC at the same time.  Is that a yikes?  Would folks even bother looking at the Minor Progression?

I was taught that the Secondary Progressions represent the Physical, Tertiary Progressions the Emotional and Minor Progressions the Mental.  Everything really comes from the Mental real and works its way through to the physical.  How that gets transmitted when looking at a chart … not sure. 

Hope this makes sense … and even if it doesn't, I'm enjoying reading other, very well informed posts.

Cheers,

L

[Rob]

Hi L,

I just watched this video on youtube yesterday. I think you'll find it interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD3GLZMZHaE

[pdw]

Hi MzLoretta, it sounds to me like you've got a pretty good system for synthesis. I'm no expert with progressions and don't even always check for them beyond the Moon. I guess Noel's emphasis on solar arcs has rubbed off on me. 

You say Astrology and music have been important studies in your life. If you care to share I'm curious what connection point you see for both of them in your chart. 

[Kathy Rose]

I've had a professional practice now for 31 years - and through experience I've streamlined and simplified my process. I've found again and again that what is important to see in the horoscope, will stand out through repeating patterns - and in the end, the simple rules. My thought is that if it takes more than 30 minutes to prepare the horoscope for consultation - I'm using too many measurements.

I print out 3 pieces of paper:
1. Natal chart
2. Double ring chart - Natal with Solar Arcs
3. 7 - 10 years of Solar Arcs

I do use secondary progressed Moon - and I note when it makes a conjunction, square or opposition to a natal planet or angle. I also note when the tp Moon conjuncts an angle. I also use lunations as trigger transits (something I've specialized in - and will be writing an article on soon) - and I write on the solar arc sheet when a New or Full Moon makes a close conjunction to a planet or angle.

The main thing I look at are the solar arcs and transits - and the overlap of high activation points with sp Moon, tp Moon, and lunation activity.

My personality likes to get to the bottom line quickly and efficiently - and too many measurements cloud the issue.

I don't use secondary progressions for anything except the sp Moon (as a trigger) - simply because I get great results without them. In the end, we need to STOP measuring and start consulting (stop thinking and start talking!).

There's confidence in simplicity.

Kathy

[Barbara Ybarra]

Hi MzLoretta:

I'd say that there are still many different ways of practicing astrology, but if you are skipping solar arcs you are missing the "big bells".  As you say about Neptune bringing delusions...what if Neptune is making a solar arc to a woman's natal Sun? 

You caught my eye with your statement about the mental, emotional and physical manifestations being connected with the minor, tertiary and secondary progressions.  I never heard that before.  I agree that everything comes from the mind, however.  Edgar Cayce always said "Mind is ever the builder".  Key word there  is "ever" - first, last, and always our judgements color our life.

Anyway, my real point is that I think we cannot unravel another person's long train of thought until they tell us what are their beliefs, so we cannot use the progressions as a starting point for a mental or emotional trigger, however they might be sandwiched in between the (real meat?).  Argh.  Now I have trains running through sandwiches.  I always start with transits and solar arcs, and, like Kathy, I add in the progression pickles (sorry).

I envy you your music.  For me, this late in life I don't think I could pick up an instrument, though I do need to dispel darkness at times.

-Barbara Ybarra

 

[Don Borkowski]

Mz Loretta:

I've adopted Noel's usage of the TP Moon regarding timing.  In my case, it showed in both my loss of virginity and a crippling injury.  As a rule the TP Moon moves about 1/2 a degree a day, which lends itself to determination of timing.  The late Robert Blaschke presented a system of correlating different types of progressions to different types of chart calculation.  But his system was pretty much his own alone, and I don't know of anyone else who has been able to use it.  I know of no other examples of minor progressions in use.

Don Borkowski

[MzLoretta]

Holy enchilada.  What a treasure chest of knowledge here in the replies.  Thank you so much!

Rob: thank you for that video.  I can’t find my Blaschke books right now (new house), but this interview triggered a lot of what I learned about progressions from him.  I studied with him here in Portland, OR until he got annoyed with our goofy city and moved on.  Hands down, he was the best astrology teacher I ever had.  What I came away with was that his approach to progressions his very philosophical and spiritual.

Notes I took from the Video:

According to Blaschke and his Forefathers, C.E.O. Carter and Alan Leo, these represent the development of the individual according to

Physical Body (Secondary Progressions), Earth (Matter) & Sun (Spirit)
  Spirit entering Matter
Emotional Body (Tertiary Progressions), and 13 x faster than Secondary Earth (Matter) & Moon (Soul)
  Matter entering Soul
Mental Body (Minor Progressions) causal 27 x faster than Secondary Moon (Soul) & Sun (Spirit)
   Soul Entering Spirit

 These 3 progression techniques are very close to the “kaya” teachings I learned studying Tibetan Buddhism.  When you become “attached” to the thoughts that are indicated by the Minor Progressions (mental) plane (Dharmakaya) they become thoughts in the astral Tertiary Progressions (Sambhogakaya).  If those thoughts become obsessive, they manifest in the physical plane Secondary Progressions (Nirmanakaya).  I’m using Buddhist terms because it’s the only tradition I can talk about with any confidence.  I’m sure someone steeped in another tradition can explain it as something like: The Father, Son, Holy Ghost, etc.

  Pretty heady stuff and it would take a special kind of astrologer to ferret good advice to give someone using those three kinds of progressions.  It’s cool to ponder, however.  Boils down to “think good thoughts”  it's about as much as this pea brain can do with this powerful information.   

Kathy Rose:  I like your rule of simplicity.  30 minutes is a good timeline.  “there’s confidence in simplicity” ….  nice.  I must say I get weary of younger astrologers who use wheels with asteroids and kitchen sink planetary bodies.  It just makes my head spin.  You and others keep bringing up Solar Arcs.  It’s time for me to start using them.

Don: I’m going to study Noel Tyl’s TP Moon timing technique.  Thank you.  Also, thanks for the reality check regarding Blaschke’s progressions.  Interesting to know that other astrologers don’t use them.   I certainly wouldn’t have the skill to know how to process all of that information.

I love your sandwich, Barbara!  NNode conjunct the Moon here, so I’m always cooking and thinking about food.   

Barbara and PDW: (thank you both for pushing me towards using Solar Arcs as well) … since you mentioned my interest in music and PDW asked what in my chart triggered that, I decided to look.  (Is it just me that neglects her own astrology weather report?).

I decided to use a technique I learned from Mr. Blaschke. You look at natal retrogrades and find out when any of them go direct using Secondary Progressions.  Kind of like angles getting triggered: shift happens.  Natal Mercury going direct = finding one’s voice, Natal Venus going direct = childbirth, marriage, etc.   Since the Secondary Progressed chart equals the ephemeris for the 3 or so month after birth, you can use it to find the station direct dates.  My only retrograde natal planet that’s gone direct is Neptune.  Neptune went direct in April 2005 (age 58) and I started playing music with Hawaiians.  I bought my first instrument in 2004 (Neptune was stationing by SP) and I learned to play the ukulele.

Also in April 2005 Solar Arcs: Neptune conjunct Natal SNode/ Mars conjunct Natal NNode.  (My first Solar Arc use here).

SP/Solar Arc Sun was coming out of my natal 12th house after 30 years.  Since 2008 (year of my Second Saturn return), I’ve been playing the mandolin and learning Irish traditional tunes obsessively and now can confidently play at home or at the pub with other musicians.  In 2010 Solar Arc Venus exactly Sextiled my Natal Venus.

I was a dancer in my youth, but a car accident in 1998 put me in a wheelchair … so maybe I just needed to learn to dance with my fingers.  Which I do. 

[pdw]

so maybe I just needed to learn to dance with my fingers.  Which I do.

Enjoyed all your responses, MzL, especially this one. Lovely.

[Don Borkowski]

Mz. Loretta,

Let me join the chorus of folks encouraging you to take up the usage of solar arcs.  Several years ago, I lectured at the Oregon Astrological Association about solar arcs being the next generation of progressions.  Unfortunately, my clever "Star Trek" reference went over too many peoples' heads.  A couple years ago, I posted the handout from my lecture onto my blog:
http://dgborkowski.blogspot.com/2013/05/solar-arcs-next-generation-of.html

My lecture was a distilled form of Noel's book.

I was born and raised in Portland, and I started my life in astrology there in 1971.  If you ever want to discuss astrology in Oregon, feel free to drop me a line sometime at dgborkowski@msn.com.

Don B.

[robynne]

Thanks for the link Rob, I will watch the video.

Don, just quickly reading your page there, I can definitely say that as Venus progressed to natal Jupiter in Pisces it was quite a cultural experience.

Around the same time Mercury progressed to the Aries point, I may have been a little headstrong, but after having it (my mind) nearly wiped out at the end of Pisces, I was quite determined that my mind and thoughts would be my own, sometimes easier said than done with a natal 12th house Mercury. The system does work... just my two cents worth of confirmation here..

[bjorkstrand]

 Progressions don't exist

Jim

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Of course progressions exist...

...and if the birth time is correct, they will be accurate to just minutes of arc.

Examples from my own life:

[Flipper]

Progressions don't exist

Jim

I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion, but I find that progressions definitely work, and I agree with ODdOnLifeItself, that with an accurate birth time, they are often accurate to within minutes of arc (with the corresponding transits being the most accurate trigger for events in the charts I see). I realize that many participants in this forum are students of Noel Tyl, and as such, there is an emphasis on using solar arcs, which is fine. However, I use an eclectic approach in my astrological analysis, and I find progressions invaluable and would never dismiss them.

[Kathy Rose]

This thread is interesting - because it highlights the many ways we can arrive at the same conclusions. Some may not agree with this.... however, I think that we all gravitate to certain techniques that fit with how our mind works -- and in the end, the information we seek will come through.

I don't dismiss secondary progressions - it's just that I've found that I seem to get the info I need through other techniques. For me, the trick is getting comfortable with what works for you, and making sure there are not so many measurements that you get lost in the data. In the end, I think the Universal mind works through us to guide us to see what we need to see.

Obviously I'm not a stickler with "absolutes" in technique - it's just for me, I like to get to the bottom line quickly. I'm appreciating the examples that have been posted for the sp connections to events.

Kathy

[MzLoretta]

Thanks for your kind words, PDW.  Hey, Don … thank you for the link.  I'm back on the astrology path after a week of good music practice.  I'll look at the lecture you posted and get back to you.  Seems like music and astrology are among the few things I cannot do simultaneously.  I used to attend a lot of the OAA meetings until about 11 years ago.  Nice folks there.  I can only imagine the response to your Star Trek reference.   

I'm presuming you've posted Solar Arcs, ODd.  Interesting if so.  I've been looking at some events involving my loved ones.  The more I read, the more I'm getting the message to look at Solar Arcs.  So, I am.  I'm getting some pretty interesting results so far.

Of course Progressions don't exist, bjork.  I'll bite.  Nothing exists really.  Form is emptiness and emptiness is form.  Yeesh.  Basic stuff here.  However, pretending there is a reality for the purposes of this discussion, Secondary progressions do exist ~ in the ephemeris (weather report)  …. things are just slowed down so that a lifetime is seen in about 3 months instead of 90 years.  Solar Arcs, Tertiary and Minor Progressions are not going to be found in an ephemeris.

Exactly, Kathy.  Two astrologers using completely different techniques/schools can look at a chart and come up with very valid and helpful analyses.  For example, I use Traditional rulerships.  I don't use Uranus, Pluto or Neptune as rulers of anything …. but do consider their influences in rulerships. I don't use angles when considering aspect patterns.  I do see angles as hugely important for just about anything else in astrology.  So what?  My way or the highway?  I think not. I'll never forget the downright venom, bordering on hatred, I received from a group of online "cough" astrologers when I told them I didn't use angles in aspect pattern identification.  I was horrified by such rage and bizarre attachments to ideas.  People are funny.