Noel Tyl
Astrology => General Astrology Discussion => Topic started by: James Williams on July 28, 2021, 06:07:36 AM
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May start a new series here regarding the headliner topic. The beautiful thing about this Jyotisha school of thought is that each astrologer will give nearly the exact same reading, since its principles and techniques are extremely streamlined and delineated.
I thought of starting with Noel's chart, and wanted to focus first on his natal Saturn, since it was his strongest graha (planet).
As mentioned in A Complete Book on Horary Astrology: Principles and Case Studies (Application of Prasna Astrology) by V.K. Choudhry and K. Rajesh Chaudhary, when Saturn is strong in the birth chart, it signifies the "highest human qualities, spirituality, detachment, concentration, inwardness, dutifulness, reliability, honesty, humility, sincerity, stability, longevity, authoritativeness, discipline, responsibility, conservatism, practicality, realism, durability, eye for detail, sobriety, constancy and consistency" (pp. 51-52).
Noel's second strongest graha according to this approach was his Moon, operating at around 88 percent efficiency. When strong, "the person does not have to strive for acquiring status and it denotes affluence, receptivity, sensitivity, imagination, good memory, meritorious deeds and sound habits" (p. 44).
These could very easily have been shared with Noel during a consultation.
Would have loved to have heard his response!
;)
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Hi James,
Yes, Noel’s response would have been interesting – and informative, I imagine. ;)
These are not bad for ‘static textbook designations’, a phrase I just came across in S&C. I can see how the Saturn characteristics were alive and at work in Noel, and central to the great professional success and respect that he earned (Saturn in his 10th House rules his Capricorn Sun-Jupiter).
The Moon list is not as successful, imho. I guess it strikes me as a bit lackluster for Noel’s people-oriented 3rd House Leo Moon (opposing Venus) and his flair for showy, dramatic communication. Perhaps adjusting the intro to ‘the person needs to be appreciated and loved for his…” would liven the list up and remind me a bit more of Noel.
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Hi pdw, yes, the Moon list is a bit lackluster, yet most of what the Choudhry's list seems to apply.
The Moon in Noel's Jyotisha birth chart rules his 2nd House of speech, status, wealth, and family.
Its placement in Leo is indeed fortuitous according to the Systems' Approach, as they write..."Any planet placed in the sign Leo has comparatively more power and certainly up by 25 percent than the actual power of the said planet(s)."
Also, "When being the lord of the 2nd House, a Sun-like planet...placed in Leo's sign...gains additional strength."
"The 2nd House rules the status of the person in the society...The 3rd House rules the communication power of the person which is an important aspect for leadership. The 9th House is the house of fortune and rules happiness from father and preceptor. The [mooltrikona] lords of the 2nd, 3rd, and 9th House, wherever other than the Sun, act like the Sun for the various Ascendants..."
Thus, they're saying that Noel's Moon, being in the mooltrikona sign of Leo, and being ruler of his 2nd House, is a Sun-like planet--it shines, radiates warmth, enlightens, etc.
They consider it to function at around 90 percent effectiveness, since its dispositor's dispositor is combust. But this is just a small glitch and in no way reduces the power and effectiveness of that Moon...
:)
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Hi James, should be interesting to follow this thread. One question.......what program are you using to determine planet
strength???
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I should also add that Noel's Moon in Leo in his Jyotisha natal chart is at 4 degrees 24 minutes, while his Ascendant degree is 7 degrees 00 minutes (Gemini).
One's Ascendant degree in their Jyotisha birth chart is what the Systems' Approach adherents refer to as one's MEP--Most Effective Point. This means that the most effective point of each house of Noel's would be 4 degrees.
And any planet within 5 degrees of one's MEP makes what they term a close aspect to that MEP.
So, Noel's Moon makes a close aspect to the MEP of his 3rd House of communication, ventures, initiative, motivation, leadership, courage, vision, imagination, entrepreneurial nature, the power of understanding, and writing.
And since each planet in one's Jyotisha chart aspects the 7th from itself, this Moon also powerfully benefits his 9th House of fortune, intuition, charity, virtue, duty, foreign travel, father, preceptor, philosophy, and sudden and unexpected gains.
:)
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Hi Halina, I'm using Brian Conrad's software, Jyotish Tools, since he has already calculated the Systems' Approach planetary strength.
However, he has not added the feature of the loss or gain of strength of planets, which is given here...
http://yournetastrologer.com/learn_astrology2a.htm
:)
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Thanx for the link James. According to another system of planetary strengths, the astrodyne system found in Solar Fire, Tyl's,
Moon and Saturn are not his strongest planets.
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I do not find that surprising Halina. It's like rectification--it all depends upon what system, philosophy, methodology, technique(s) one espouses...
The key question is is it accurate as delineated by the adherents...does it correspond to personality or life events?
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As mentioned here several times previously, astrologer David Hawthorne has done some wonderful videos on YouTube utilizing the Systems' Approach methodology. At times he's a bit too dogmatic, rigid, and condescending towards other astrological perspectives, but he does give a pretty good rendition of how to apply the principles and techniques of the Systems' Approach...
https://www.youtube.com/user/astroview108/videos
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James, can you keep the Systems Approach a pure sstem without diluting it and mixing in other systems. For example Tyl''s Moon is weak by the SYSTEMS APPROACH and you try to make it strong by mixing in other systems. Brian Conrad has already determined that Tyl's Moon is weak however you go to another systems link and mix in their reasoning. Sorry I'm not buying a mix mash diluting system for planetary strengths.
You say "it all depends on what system one is using".......well if this is a thread on THE SYSTEMS APPROACH I wouldn't
expect a hodge podge mix of 10 different systems. After all that's what the authors are trying to prevent a hodge podge of
of different rules from different authors.......read Thor's articles he sticks to the rules of one system.
Look at Conrad's table again James, Venus, 81%, while Saturn has no percentage indicated.
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Here's another example.
This person has 13 degrees Virgo rising. So the MEP for each house of hers is 13 degrees. Functional benefic planets for Virgo rising are Moon, Jupiter, Mercury, Venus. Functional malefic planets for Virgo rising are Sun, Mars, Rahu, Saturn, Ketu.
Functional malefic Sun is at 7 degrees Gemini (non-mooltrikona sign) well-placed in the 10th House. It rules the 12th House and is weak since the MEP of its house of placement is closely conjunct 8th House ruler functional malefic Mars. So natal Sun and MEP of the 12th House become vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within in orb of 5 degrees (8 degrees to 18 degrees).
Functional benefic Moon is at 11 degrees Aquarius (mooltrikona sign) badly-placed in the 6th House. It rules the 11th House and is weak since it is in the 6th House, and also its dispositor Saturn is weak. Thus both the Moon and the 11th House become vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.
Functional benefic Mercury is at 26 degrees Gemini (non-mooltrikona sign) well-placed in the 10th House. It rules the 1st House and is weak since it is in old age (and its house of placement is afflicted by a functional malefic planet within an orb of 5 degrees for non-mooltrikona signs), yet still functions at around 80 percent efficiency. Therefore, both Mercury and the 1st House become vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.
Functional benefic Venus is at 10 degrees Gemini, well-placed in the 10th House. It rules the 2nd House and is weak since it is around 70 percent combust, and is exactly aspected by functional malefic Mars. Thus, both Venus and the 2nd House become vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.
Functional malefic Mars is the MMP (Most Malefic Planet) since it rules the 8th House. It is at 10 degrees Gemini, well-placed in the 10th House and is weak since it is about 88 percent combust. So both Mars and the 8th House are vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.
Functional benefic Jupiter is at 4 1/2 degrees Taurus, well-placed in the 9th House. It rules the 4th House and is slightly weak since it is in infant state, yet functions nicely with around 91 percent effectiveness. So both Jupiter and the 4th House are vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.
Functional malefic Saturn is at nearly 2 degrees Taurus, well-placed in the 9th House. It rules the 6th House and is weak due to infant state, thereby functioning at around 62 percent efficiency. Thus both Saturn and the 6th House are vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.
Rahu (AKA North Node) is at about 1 degree Cancer in the 11th House, so Ketu (AKA South Node) is at about 1 degree Capricorn in the 5th House. Thus, Ketu closely afflicts Saturn, while both Ketu and Rahu closely afflict Mercury.
Both Sun and Mars are Rahu-like planets. They give "inclinations for greed, over-ambitiousness, encroachments, materialistic pursuits, lust, obstructions, mishaps, and loss of patience."
Here's a link entitled, How to Analyze a [Jyotisha] Horoscope in 3 Minutes...this is just one way to do it...the System's Approach way...
http://yournetastrologer.com/learn_astrology43.htm
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Halina, Brian Conrad's software has Noel's Moon functioning at 88 percent efficiency.
I have not mixed systems in this thread--I have only utilized the Systems' Approach. In another thread on Peterson, I utilized Nandi Naadi--but not in this thread.
Again, Halina, you're not understanding and you're confused and making wrong accusations. Slow down, reread whatever literature you have on the Systems' Approach, and watch some of David Hawthorne's analysis.
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If we read Noel's biography, it shows a weak Saturn, the father, who deserted him when he was 10. This verifies a weak Saturn as shown by Brian Conrad's point system. The mother was also unstable, read the biography......thus she also
is represented by a weak Moon as Conrad's point system verifies.
https://www.afan.org/remembering-noel-tyl/
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Brian Conrad's software has Noel with a STRONG Saturn.
Stop it Halina. He has not one comment or box checked on Noel's Saturn.
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James, look at the Conrad Table above, there is no percentage beside the planet Saturn, there is 81% beside Venus.
So where are you getting 88% for Saturn?
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I didn't say a word about Noel's Venus.
And I didn't get 88 percent for Saturn.
Jesus Halina, you're so confused.
Learn to read Conrad's table.
Why are you so contentious?
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Not contentious....it's discussion for anything not understood....which means asking questions, analyzing replies, looking for proofs....nothing like
discussion to clarify things that are not clear. Thanx for your perspectives and further discussions. Next example.
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James I had a reading with David Hawthorne a number of years ago and it was very interesting. He said that I had a pretty good chart and that I am really not going to have bad transits until about the age of 77, which I found interesting amy
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In 2027, transiting Saturn (sidereal zodiac, lahiri ayanamsha) will enter its debilitation sign, Aries, on June 2.
So Amy, at that time, the ruler of your Jyotisha natal chart 4th House, Saturn, will enter your 6th House of health. So 4th House health significators, such as heart, chest, lungs, breasts, etc. will come more to the forefront...and it doesn't retrograde back into Pisces until October 19 of that year...
http://yournetastrologer.com/learn_astrology4.htm
http://yournetastrologer.com/learn_astrology5.htm
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James, got to thinking… Noel’s ‘system’ starts with the Sun-Moon blend and incorporates the planets into that framework: How does a planet facilitate the Sun shining (or not)? How does it help satisfy the Moon’s needs (or not)?
Noel had a Capricorn Sun-Leo Moon blend which quickly leads to the same conclusion as the system you’re using: His Sun-ruling Saturn is very strong, ruling and sextile to his Sun and professionally emphasized in the prominent 10th House. We can anticipate that embodying and utilizing Saturn methods (the descriptors on your list) may be a natural strength and importantly linked to a work-oriented Capricorn Sun's ability to shine successfully, i.e., by earning public recognition and respect with achievement. And, in this blend, a successful Capricorn Sun is key to satisfying the needs of the Leo Moon that it rules.
Like Noel (was), Dolly Parton is hard-working, successful, committed to a long career, and also has a Capricorn Sun-Leo Moon blend. Perhaps at the heart of this blend is a love of work and love of success. James, I’m curious what her two strongest planets would be in the system you are using - ?
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pdw, will look at her chart tomorrow morning...
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OK taking a look at Dolly's chart...actually every planet of hers is weak according to System's Approach...
The Sun is badly placed in her 6th House; the Moon is well-placed in the 1st but has a weak dispositor; Mercury is well-placed in the 5th House but has a weak dispositor and is slightly combust; Venus is badly placed in the 6th House, is 70 percent combust, and in infant state; Mars is well-placed in the 11th but is in old age; Jupiter is well-placed in the 3rd but is in infant state and has a weak dispositor; Saturn is well-placed in the 11th but is in old age; Rahu and Ketu are well-placed but both are debilitated in their navamsha chart.
Thus, Mercury and the Moon appear to be her best planets. Both are well-placed and unafflicted in her navamsha D9 chart, while Mercury is well-placed and aspected by benefic Jupiter in her dashamsha D10 chart.
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Interesting, James, thanks. I may comment later but first must make a correction: Dolly Parton does not have a Leo Moon. Her Moon is at O Virgo 58 (see AA rated chart at astro.com).
I got her name out of the examples for the Capricorn Sun-Leo Moon blend in S&C. I gather, from the source notes at astro.com, that it was believed she was born at 3:00 AM (with a 21 Leo 14 Moon) at the time S&C was published. Frank Clifford is credited with providing a copy of her birth record with an 8:25 PM birth time.
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pdw, please remember that I am looking at her Jyotisha chart for the Systems' Approach. This uses the sidereal zodiac and lahiri ayanamsha. Thus, Dolly Parton has a Leo Moon in her Jyotisha birth chart.
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Parton,_Dolly
AA
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Got it, James. Thanks for making it clear that she does have a Leo Moon in her Jyotisha birth chart.
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Now, if David Hawthorne or VK Choudhry had given Noel a Systems' Approach reading, it would likely have gone something like this...
"Noel, your functional benefic planets include the Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn. Your functional malefic planets are the Nodes, Rahu (AKA North Node) and Ketu (AKA South Node).
Your Sun here is well-placed in the 7th House, but is weakened because its dispositor is weak.
Your Moon is well-placed in the 3rd House in a Sun-like sign, but is slightly in infant state, and it has a weakened dispositor. However, it is close to the MEP, or Most Effective Point, thereby benefitting the significations of that 3rd House, as well as the significations of your 9th House.
Your Mars is well-placed in the 5th House, but it too is slightly in infant state, and has a weakened dispositor. But it also is close to the Most Effective Point, and thus it benefits the significations of your 5th, 8th, 11th, and 12th Houses.
Your Mercury is ill-placed in the 8th House, but does receive a nice aspect from functional benefic Mars. And it too is close to the Most Effective Point, thereby benefitting the significations of the 8th and 2nd Houses.
Jupiter is well-placed in the 7th House, but is combust.
Venus is well-placed in the 9th House, and aspected by functional benefic Moon, but it is in infant state and exactly aspected by functional malefic Ketu.
Saturn is well-placed in your 7th House, and is your strongest planet.
Rahu is well-placed in your 7th House, and Ketu in your 1st House, as they are not aspecting your Most Effective Point.
Now, let's look at each of these planets, or grahas, in much more detail, as well as the significations of the houses they rule, and their aspects, as well as significant transits and dasha periods."
They would recommend that Noel strengthen his functional benefic planets, while simultaneously propitiating both Rahu and Ketu.
You can watch some of David Hawthorne's videos on YouTube to see how he does it, which is not quite as detailed as this, but nevertheless is very effective and informative.
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Here's a bit more analysis...
"Noel, your functional benefic Sun rules the 3rd House of ventures and initiatives and is well-placed and unafflicted in the 7th House. Thus, successful consulting leadership partnerships with others can be built via initiating entrepreneurship ventures.
Your functional benefic Moon rules the 2nd house of status, speech, wealth, and family life and is well-placed in the Sun-like 3rd House, with the benefic influence of Venus, and is unafflicted, but is slightly weak due to its weak dispositor. This slight weakness may create some tense moments at times in family life via carelessly communicated speech--especially during the subperiods of the Moon--but otherwise, status, speech, wealth, and family life benefit.
Your functional benefic Mars rules the 11th House of gains, wealth, friends, and achievements, and is well-placed in the 5th House, thereby blessing with professional knowledge and qualification. However, it is slightly weak due to its weak dispositor, so it may at times create tension and issues regarding speculative gains from investments, and emotional unhappiness--especially during the subperiods of Mars--but otherwise, gains from income, friends, and achievements will likely proliferate.
Your functional benefic Mercury rules the 4th House of mother, marital happiness, mental peace, and comforts, and is unafflicted, but it is ill-placed in the 8th House. This at times will augur obstructions and setbacks to 4th House significations, especially during the subperiods of Mercury. But communication of astrology is also seen here since the 8th House rules astrology, and Mercury rules communication. And its functional benefic aspect onto the 2nd House helps to promote wealth and status.
Your functional benefic Jupiter rules the 7th House of partnership(s), travel, and pleasures, and is well-placed in the 7th House, but is combust. This will tend to bring tension into 7th House significations, especially during the subperiods of Jupiter.
Your functional benefic Venus, ruling the 5th House of emotional happiness, discrimination and discernment, romance, and progeny, is well-placed in the 9th House of father, fortune, spiritual learning, and long journeys of short duration, but is weak due to its infant state, and afflicted by functional malefic Ketu (AKA South Node). This tends to produce mixed effects to the 9th and 5th House significations, with a marked increase in tension especially during the subperiods of Venus.
Your functional benefic Saturn is well-placed in the aforementioned 9th House, and it rules the 9th House, and is unafflicted. It is a strong planet, and therefore it benefits 9th House significations, especially during its subperiods.
Your functional malefic Rahu is well-placed in the aforementioned 7th House, but in its operating periods it may delay the fulfillment of desires.
Your functional malefic Ketu is well-placed in the 1st House of personality, appearance, vitality, and longevity, and is away from the Most Effective Point, thereby creating opportunity for spiritual learning and advancement. But Ketu does make a close aspect to Mars and Venus, thereby creating significant tension in regards to their planetary and mooltrikona house significations, especially during the operation of their subperiods.
So whenever Rahu and Ketu form close conjunction aspects with weak natal positions, or form close conjunctions with weak transit positions, or weak transit planets fall under the influence of natal Rahu and Ketu, issues with regard to the significations ruled by these planets may be expected to be triggered."
This is just one way the Systems' Approach can be utilized in giving an astrological analysis...
:)
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Here's another example...DO YOU KNOW WHO THIS IS?!
Ascendant is 24 degrees Pisces...so the MEP or Most Effective Point of each house is 24 degrees.
Functional benefic or favorable grahas (planets) are the Moon, Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter.
Functional malefic or unfavorable grahas are Sun, Venus, Saturn, Rahu (AKA North Node), and Ketu (AKA South Node).
Functional malefic Sun is well-placed and unafflicted at 23 degrees in the 7th House of partnership(s), vitality, potency, fertility, passion, outgoing nature, adultery, moral conduct, pleasures, comforts and life in foreign lands, success in love affairs, conjugal life, home abroad, travel, and trade or business. It rules the 6th House of disputes, diseases and injuries, debts, enemies, opponents, competitors, thieves, fears, doubts, worries, vices, weaknesses, misunderstandings, and sound financial position. So disputes and fears are likely to affect his partnership(s), since the Sun is weak by ruling the 6th House and by a weak dispositor.
Functional benefic Moon is well-placed and unafflicted at 10 degrees in the 11th House of income, prosperity, gains, profit, friends, elder brother or sister, hopes and aspirations and their fulfillment. It rules the 5th House of intelligence, discernment and discrimination, intellectual and mental talents, memory, creative intelligence, emotional happiness, love, romance, speculative gains from investments, organizational ability, success, progeny, knowledge, and wisdom. So much income can be generated via creative intelligence.
Functional benefic Mars is well-placed and unafflicted at 9 degrees in the aforementioned 7th House. It rules the 2nd House of wealth, family, livelihood, male child, professional position, spouse, second marriage, continuance of married life, possession of precious stones and metals, money in cash, earning capacity, financial status, fortune, prosperity, movable properties, and speech. So much wealth can be generated via speech and family life. However, it is weak from having a weak dispositor, so continuance of family life may be affected through damaging speech.
Functional benefic Mercury is ill-placed but unafflicted at 10 degrees in the 8th House of longevity, research, interest in mystical sciences, inner and outer transformations, past and future events, inheritance, death, will and testament, insurances, easy gains, marital-tie, vulnerability, fear, accidents, obstructions, litigation, bankruptcy, theft, losses, misfortunes, disgrace, and disappointments. It rules the 7th House of partnership(s) and life in foreign lands, so he may experience obstructions, delays and setbacks in regards to living abroad, continuance of his marital-tie, litigation, and longevity.
Functional benefic Jupiter is well-placed in the aforementioned 2nd House at 20 degrees, and rules the 10th House of profession, career, vocation, promotion, livelihood, power, fame, public esteem, status, position, honor, character, authority, living abroad, ambition, and happiness from male progeny. Thus his profession could include speech which generates much wealth, honor, and fame. However, Jupiter is exactly afflicted by his 12th House ruler, which is the ruler of loss, expenses, and expenditure. So he is likely to experience much expenditure of energy, expenses, and loss in regards to various 2nd and 10th House significations.
Functional malefic Venus is his MMP, or Most Malefic Planet, since it rules his mooltrikona 8th House, and is ill-placed in the aforementioned 6th House at 10 degrees. It is his most weak and afflicted graha, and thus disputes with women (Venus) and the continuance of his "marital" ties will be extremely difficult.
Functional malefic Saturn is well-placed in his aforementioned 2nd House, and receives an exact conjunct aspect with functional benefic Jupiter. However, it rules his 12th House of expenses, losses, expenditures, end of life, exile, life in foreign lands, obstructions in life, separation from family, going astray, withdrawal into retreat, transcendence, enlightenment, seclusion, imprisonment, hospitalization, pleasures of bed, sound sleep and work behind the scenes. Its dispositor's dispositor is weak, thus his wealth is subject to much expense, as well as losses in foreign lands, separation from family, going astray, and withdrawal into retreat and seclusion.
Functional malefic Rahu is well-placed in the aforementioned 7th House, and makes no afflicting aspects to other grahas. Thus it aids in his materialistic wealth.
Functional malefic Ketu is well-placed in the 1st House of his innate nature and state of health, vitality, longevity, happiness, personality, appearance, prosperity, general disposition in life, reputation and status, and desires and their fulfillment. It makes no afflictions to other grahas, but it is weakened by the exact aspect of functional malefic Sun to the MEP of the 1st House. Thus, he may appear strange to some, and yet ingenious to others.
ANY IDEA AS TO WHO IS THIS FAMOUS PERSON?!
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...add 23 degrees to his aforementioned Jyotisha degrees and you will get his Western degrees for his Western horoscope...is this enough of a clue to identify him?
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Thanx for the clues.....So the planets in Tropical are Sun 16Libra, Moon 3Aq Mercury 3Scorpio, Venus 3Virgo, Mars 2Libra, Jupiter 13Taurus, Saturn 13 Taurus.
Below is a Tropical chart of the mystery person......can you guess who it is now?
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Thank you Halina. It appears that you and I are the only ones who know who this is...
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This mystery person is John Lennon, the late Beatle AMY
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James and Halina This is John Lennon, the famous musician. I Like James' analysis of the chart I wish he could do the same mini analysis of my chart! AMY
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Amy, you were the second one to get the exercise, after Halina. Nice recognition!
I'll do a mini analysis of your chart next, Amy...
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Amy, since your lagna, or Jyotisha Ascendant, is Scorpio, we'll start with the following GENERAL description of it via the Systems' Approach adherents...
http://yournetastrologer.com/learn_astrology79.htm
You probably are already familiar with most of this, since you had a Systems' Approach reading from David Hawthorne...
But this gives a general overview of those born with Scorpio lagna...
Next we'll get into the specifics of your own unique horoscope...
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Functional benefics for Scorpio lagna include the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Jupiter, and Saturn. Functional malefics include Venus, Mars, Rahu, and Ketu. The Moon and Jupiter act as Sun-like planets. Venus acts as a Rahu-like planet.
Functional benefic Sun is well-placed in the 10th House of profession, career, vocation, promotion, livelihood, power, fame, public esteem, status, position, honor, karma in life, character, authority, employer, living abroad, ambition, next birth, happiness from male progeny, debts and the following body parts - knee and kneecaps, joints and bones. It rules the 10th House. It is unafflicted and is a strong planet or graha. It also benefits from the aspect from natural benefic Jupiter. A strong Sun helps to bring down the level of suffering due to afflictions.
Functional benefic Moon is well-placed in the 2nd House of wealth, family, livelihood, nourishment, male child, higher education, professional position, spouse, second marriage, continuance of married life, possession of precious stones and metals, money in cash, earning capacity, financial status, fortune, prosperity, movable properties, speech, vision and the following body parts - face and its organs (nose, throat, mouth, tongue, teeth and eyes, especially the right one), facial bones, upper neck and its bones, gullet, larynx, cerebellum, trachea, cervical region and cervical bones, tonsils, etc.
It rules the 9th House of father, preceptor, spiritual learning, spiritual inclinations, intuition, charity, virtue, duty, destiny on the basis of past lives and resultant happiness, meditation, foreign travel, long journeys of short duration and life in foreign lands, education abroad, grace, luck, general fortune, sudden and unexpected gains, religion, pilgrimages, philosophy, law, medicine, remedies, past, etc., and the following body parts - thighs, left leg, thigh bones, bone marrow, hips, hip joints and the arterial system. It is unafflicted and is in slight infant state, but still functions at around 96 percent effectiveness. It does however have a weak dispositorship. It needs to be strengthened for better results.
Functional malefic Mars is ill-placed in the 12th House of expenses, losses, expenditures for charity, exile, life in foreign lands, obstructions in life, separation from family, going astray, withdrawal into retreat, transcendence, enlightenment, seclusion, imprisonment, hospitalization, pleasures of bed, sound sleep and work behind the scenes, as work in a hospital, asylum, prison, military quarters, or monastery, etc., and the following body parts - left eye, lymphatic system and feet.
It rules the 6th House of disputes, diseases and injuries, debts, enemies, opponents, competitors, thieves, fears, doubts, worries, vices, weaknesses, sound financial position, maternal uncles, service, employees, good health and protection against losses through theft, fire and cheating, misunderstandings, confrontation, litigation and the following body parts - waist, navel, lower abdomen, kidneys, small intestine, upper part of large intestine, intestinal function, appendix, etc. It is unafflicted but has weak dispositorship. It needs to be continuously propitiated.
Functional benefic Mercury is well-placed and exalted in the 11th House of income, prosperity, gains, profit, friends, elder brother or sister, hopes and aspirations and their fulfillment, etc., and the following body parts - shanks, ankles, shin bone, right leg, left ear and left arm. It rules the 11th House. However it is in infant state, and is very closely afflicted by natural malefic Ketu. Thus, Mercury needs to be strengthened for better results and Ketu needs to be continuously propitiated.
Functional benefic Jupiter is well-placed in the 4th House of mother, happiness, upbringing, relatives, friends, supporters, basic education, vehicles and conveyances, domestic peace, mind, mental peace, spiritual life (ATMA), confidence, righteous conduct, close of life, comforts, luxuries, country of birth, immovable properties, real estate, land, wells and tanks, house, home, assets and the following body parts - the rib cage, heart, chest, lungs and breasts.
It rules the aforementioned 2nd House. It benefits from the aspect of functional benefic Sun and is unafflicted. It does however have a slightly weak dispositor. It needs to be strengthened for better results.
Functional malefic Venus is the Most Malefic Planet for those born with Scorpio lagna. It is well-placed here in the aforementioned 9th House and rules the aforementioned 12th House. It is unafflicted but has weak dispositorship. Venus needs to be continuously propitiated to control expenses and losses, and to aid in promoting better sleep.
Functional benefic Saturn is the Most Benefic Planet for those born with Scorpio lagna. It is well-placed in the aforementioned 10th House and rules the aforementioned 4th House. It is slightly weak by being in old-age, but still functions at around 70 percent effectiveness. It needs to be strengthened for better results.
Functional malefic Rahu is well-placed in the 5th House of intelligence, emotions, discernment and discrimination, intellectual and mental talents, memory, creative intelligence, emotional happiness, love, romance, lover, speculative gains from investments, organizational ability, success, progeny, children, knowledge, wisdom, higher learning/education, training, fall from position, social life, inclinations, spiritual pursuits, disciples and students, devotion, ISHTA Devata, mantras, yantras, amulets, resources and merits we bring into life, future, digestion, etc., and the following body parts - upper belly, stomach, liver, gall bladder, pancreas, spleen, colon, diaphragm, spine and spinal cord, pregnancy, etc. It benefits from the close aspect of natural benefic Mercury but it afflicts Mercury, thus Rahu needs to be continuously propitiated.
Functional malefic Ketu is well-placed in the aforementioned 11th House, and it benefits from the close conjunction with natural benefic Mercury, but it afflicts Mercury, thus Ketu needs to be continuously propitiated.
This gives an idea of how a Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes goes about it, but much more can be analyzed and included by incorporating planetary significations, transits, operating periods and subperiods, etc.
Comments Amy?!
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james that is excellent! My mars period generally was difficult- ron's illness, and my sister inlaw's death. Ron died right after I entered my Rahu/Rahu period. What do you mean when you say that a planet was be propitiated? Venus periods have not been good-I had my 3 surgeries and mumps and chicken pox in Venus/Venus Grand parents died venus/moon. Dad died during moon/venus. again, thanks! amy
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Thanks Amy. Venus also is significator for the 12th House (hospitals, surgeries)...from their website...
"In addition to ruling houses containing their signs, the planets also act as significators for various houses. The various planets act as significators for the houses as indicated against each:-
SUN 1st, 9th &10th houses
MOON 4th house
MARS 3rd &10th houses
MERCURY 6th & 10th houses
JUPITER 2nd, 5th, 9th & 11th houses
VENUS 4th, 7th & 12th houses
SATURN Ayushkaraka (longevity) i.e. for the 8th house"
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http://yournetastrologer.com/learn_astrology15.htm
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http://yournetastrologer.com/learn_astrology14.htm
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thanks James!! Good information! amy
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DO YOU KNOW WHO THIS FAMOUS MAN IS?! (remember to add 23 degrees to the following to get his Western horoscope degrees)...
Leo Ascendant (nearly 6 degrees). Functional benefics are the Sun, Mars Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, and Venus. Functional malefics are the Moon, Rahu, and Ketu. Mercury, Venus, and Mars are Sun-like planets. The Moon is a Rahu-like planet.
Functional benefic Sun (21 degrees) is well-placed in the 7th House of long-term relationships, legal ties, spouse, partners in life and partners in business, vitality, potency, fertility, passion, outgoing nature, moral conduct, pleasures, comforts and life in foreign lands, success in love affairs, conjugal life, home abroad, travel, trade or business, expansion. It rules the 1st House of his innate nature and state of health, vitality, longevity, happiness, personality, appearance, prosperity, general disposition in life, reputation and status, and desires and their fulfillment. It is unafflicted and very strong. A strong Sun brings down the level of sufferings due to afflictions. This is important to remember.
The Sun is the king in the planetary cabinet. If the Sun is strong in a nativity, the father and vitality will help the native to grow in a healthy way. The Sun signifies also the king, the master, the president of the country, highly-placed persons, administrators, contractors, chairmen of industrial establishments, power, social status, progeny, male child, and is the secondary significator for husband. As the Sun is personified as a king, when strong it denotes self-confidence, courage, nobility, dignity, ambition, splendor, prestige, faith, loyalty, generosity, authority, power, leadership and creativity. Its nature is royal, benevolent and cruel and its temperament is fixed and steady. The Sun makes a person courageous and bestows administrative capabilities. It rules gold. The Sun is also the general significator for employment, inheritance, mental inclinations, professional position, comforts, intelligence, easy gains, and general fortune.
Functional malefic Moon (24 degrees) is well-placed in the 9th House of father, preceptor, intuition, charity, virtue, duty, destiny on the basis of past lives and resultant happiness, foreign travel, long journeys of short duration and life in foreign lands, grace, luck, general fortune, and sudden and unexpected gains. It rules the 12th House of expenses, losses, expenditures for charity, obstructions in life, hospitalization, pleasures of bed, and sound sleep. It is debilitated in the navamsha and has a weak dispositor. It needs to be propitiated.
Functional benefic Mars (24 degrees) is well-placed in the aforementioned 7th House. It rules the aforementioned 9th House. It is aspected by functional benefic Sun but is around 90 percent combust. It needs to be strengthened.
Functional benefic Mercury (25 degrees) is ill-placed in the 6th House of disputes, diseases and injuries, debts, enemies, opponents, competitors, thieves, fears, doubts, worries, vices, weaknesses, employees, health, misunderstandings, confrontation, and litigation . It rules the 2nd House of wealth, family, livelihood, nourishment, male child, higher education, professional position, spouse, continuance of married life, possession of precious stones and metals, money in cash, earning capacity, financial status, fortune, prosperity, movable properties, speech, and vision. It is unafflicted, but needs to be strengthened.
Functional benefic Jupiter (1 degree) is ill-placed in the aforementioned 6th House. It rules the 5th House of intelligence, emotions, discernment and discrimination, intellectual and mental talents, memory, creative intelligence, emotional happiness, love, romance, organizational ability, progeny, knowledge, wisdom, higher learning/education, and training. It is debilitated, in infant state, and debilitated in the navamsha. It is extremely weak and needs to be strengthened.
Functional benefic Venus (11 degrees) is well-placed in the aforementioned 7th House. It rules the 3rd House of courage, physical strength, initiative, entrepreneurial nature, the power of understanding (learning), communications, short journeys, and writing and communicative capability. It is aspected by functional benefic Saturn. It is a very strong planet.
Venus is a minister in the planetary cabinet. It rules vocations in the field of financial administration, art, cinema, theatres, paintings, music, designing, architecture, interior decorator, modeling, advertising, legal, teaching, hotels, medicines, fashion and luxurious items, and is the general significator for wife and/or happy married life. When strong in the nativity, it denotes aesthetic sense, worldly knowledge and pursuits, psychic ability, potency, pleasures, luxury, beauty, harmony, creativity, rich tastes, affection, friendliness, love, gentleness, sociability, clarity, charm, harmony, balance, elegance, gracefulness and refined sensuality. It rules silver, diamonds, places of pleasure and amusement, theatres, cinemas, restaurants, bedrooms, art galleries, opera and symphony halls, dance halls, beauty salons, elegant shops and clubs. Venus is also a general significator for assets, vehicles, conveyances, comforts, luxuries, art, dance, drama, music, painting, jewelry, romance, family, marital tie, income and gains, prosperity, wealth, materialistic pursuits, opulence, financial solvency, professional position, designers, engineers, and financial advisors.
Functional benefic Saturn (8 degrees) is well-placed in the aforementioned 1st House. It rules the aforementioned 7th House. It is aspected by functional benefic Venus. It is a very strong planet.
Saturn is the servant in the planetary cabinet. It is personified as a statesman and leader and signifies jobs leadership of workers, dealing with servants, When strong in the nativity, it signifies perfection, detachment, concentration, inwardness, dutifulness, reliability, honesty, sincerity, stability, longevity, authoritativeness, discipline, responsibility, conservatism, practicality, realism, durability, eye for detail, sobriety, constancy and consistency.
Functional malefic Rahu (3 degrees) is well-placed in the aforementioned 9th House. It signifies speculative trading markets. It has a weak dispositor and needs to be propitiated.
Functional malefic Ketu is well-placed in the aforementioned 3rd House, and does not cause any natal affliction. It needs to be propitiated for better results.
His 18-year Rahu operating period began in early May 1975, followed by Jupiter's 16-year period which ended in early May 2009. He is now 12 years into his 19-year Saturn period, with Saturn ruling his mootrikona 7th House, and placed in his 1st House.
WHO IS HE?!
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Hi James, super learning thread. Could you please explain your response to Amy when you say....."The various planets act as significators
for the Houses as indicated against each.....I don't understand "the against each."
For Sun you have 1st, 9th, & 10th Houses......not understanding. Also Moon only gets 1 House....also don't understand how Saturn only gets
8th House.
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Hi Halina, good question. It's a direct quote from their website, and since English is not their native language, sometimes they do not write correct English. Just ignore their statement "against each."
What they are saying is that the planets also rule other houses as general significators, in addition to their specific significations.
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i am not a scorpio
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bjork, this is about the fourth or fifth time you've posted that on one of my threads.
Looks to me like you're pretty obsessed and intense and stubborn about it...
;)
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OK more clues to the second "mystery" man above...these are notes to myself that I wrote earlier today, so they may not be understandable to most...but for more info, you can check out the book, How To Study Divisional Charts, by V.K. Choudhry and K. Rajesh Chaudhary.
During the subperiods of the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Saturn, Rahu and Ketu, the native earned and accumulated wealth by his own efforts. During the subperiods of the Moon, Sun, Mars, and Jupiter, the native's earnings and accumulations came naturally without much effort (D2 chart).
The prime indicator of wealth (and assets) for him is Mercury. Jupiter is the significator for good financial gains. Venus is the general significator for wealth, assets, luxuries, and comforts. Both Sun (expansions) and Moon (fortune, luck) are well-placed and unafflicted in the natal chart.
Functional benefic Jupiter makes a close aspect to the MEP of the 2nd House of wealth in his natal chart.
The significator planets for assets are the Moon, Mars, and Venus. In Turyamsha D4 (Net Assets), Leo is the lagna, and the Sun is in Leo in the 1st, and aspected by Rahu from the 9th, and Saturn from the 4th, ruling the 7th. Rahu also aspects Mercury in the 3rd, ruler of the 2nd. Venus is in Taurus in the 10th, and is aspected by the rulers of the 9th, 5th, and 7th Houses in D4. The ruler of the 7th aspects the debilitated ruler of the 5th from the 4th. Mars and Venus are in mutual aspect from the 4th and 10th in D4.
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Hi James, I sent my answer by email.....I never heard of the guy.....famous, maybe, but not well-known.
His vedic chart below fits all you your planet clues.
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You're two for two Halina!
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Halina, any asteroid indicators as to this man's wealth in his Western horoscope that you posted?
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This man's wealth and power is easily seen in looking at his Jyotisha charts.
Not so with his Western horoscope.
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Arnault,_Bernard
;)
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Hi James, I'm away from home and no access to astrological charts.....will have to wait until Tuesday.
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Hi James, "No so with his Western Horoscope"......don't count on this statement being correct, as you will see shortly.
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Hi James, "Not so with his Western Horoscope"......don't count on this statement being correct, as you will see shortly, James.
In August, 2021, he was procclaimed the richest man in the world. This is shown more clearly in his Tropical chart biwheel
than in his Vedic chart. Asteroids actually name the person. Much more detail is shown in Tropical astrology with asteroids.
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Interesting figure and chart, James.
The emphasized Moon at MC, in Taurus, suggests to me that personal security is linked to and satisfied by professional emphasis on material matters (money, tangible values, ownership). And what if this Moon is natally contacted by Pluto? That could magnify or intensify the drive for material acquisition in a dramatic or extreme way – which fits here, with his prominent Moon being squared by a perceptive, business-oriented Pluto-Mercury opposition. This forms a Fixed T-Square naturally equipped for a lifetime of acquiring, maintaining, and enjoying wealth.
Coincidentally, Carlos Ghosn, a prominent figure also associated with enjoying money and a rich lifestyle, has the same Pisces Sun-Taurus Moon blend as Arnauld. Actually, since Ghosn lived in France and was Renault chief for awhile, bet he and Arnault crossed paths at some point. Hope they compared charts… ;)
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Thanks pdw...it would have been interesting if Arnault had had a consultation when he was an early adult, and asked if he would be wealthy someday. It's much easier to see with his Jyotisha charts, as there are many more indicators and significators than in his Western horoscope. Ditto especially with the timing of his wealth.
But as you point out, the psychological need press and personal perspective is there in his Western chart. And yet many have Moon in Taurus at the MC and contacted by Mercury-Pluto who are not the least bit wealthy.
Too bad we don't have Ghosn's birth info...
Thanks again pdw for weighing in...
:)
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A friend of mine who has been dead for years had sun in pisces and moon in taurus and she WAS NOT wealthy-just the opposite. She was dependent on her mom and brother to help her out. However,she had sun in the 6th house and the moon, saturn and jupiter in taurus in the 8th house. ISn't the 8th house "other people's money" ? amy