Noel Tyl

Astrology => General Astrology Discussion => Topic started by: James Williams on December 22, 2017, 12:55:26 AM

Title: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 22, 2017, 12:55:26 AM
Thanks to Halina, I was recently introduced to the Huber Method of Interpreting Western Charts.  I would invite everyone here to check this method out, as it works very well with other astrological methodology...including Noel's.

Attached below is my natal chart, and past lives chart, known in Huber terminology as the Moon Node chart.  I'll attach a third chart that they utilize, the Huber House Chart, in a subsequent post.

And here's a handy chart interpretation checklist of how to go about interpreting charts via the Huber Method...

"Chart Interpretation Checklist • Connect with the centre and focus yourself. • Look at the chart – use your eyes and senses. Is there an intuitive image or picture? What does this say? • Consider the shaping/motivation. • Look at the balance of colour. • What direction is the chart moving in – vertical/ horizontal? • Which hemispheres are emphasised, containing more planets? • Which quadrants are emphasised? • Are there recognisable aspect patterns? • Are any planets blocked off? Unaspected? Intercepted? • Are there Cuspal, Low Point or Stressed planets? • Assess the strength of the planets by sign and house.  • Is there any major polarity in the chart, suggesting conflict? • What is the comparative strength of the ego planets? • What does the Family Model suggest? • Consider the house/area of life of the Moon’s North Node.  • Look at the current movement of Age Point in the Life Clock.

The list might seem long and daunting, especially if you are new to astrological psychology, but with practice and experience it is possible to cover all these points... and more.  This book is intended to give an overview and a “taster” of how astrological psychology works and how it can be applied and used as a tool to further personal and spiritual growth. We would stress that this really is a relatively simple overview, and the techniques in this book can be considered in much greater depth than is presented presented here. There are also more advanced techniques that we have not mentioned, such as the use of the Moon Node Chart, the House Chart and Dynamic Quadrants, all of which offer further and deeper insights for the student and seeker alike."

Llewellyn, Richard. The Cosmic Egg Timer in Colour: Introducing Astrological Psychology (Kindle Locations 3407-3432). HopeWell. Kindle Edition.

As I'm just learning this method, I'll go slowly here in this thread in regards to the above points.  I know I'll include more as I become more familiar with their methodology...





Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 22, 2017, 01:09:21 AM
Starting first with the natal chart...

An intuitive image or picture I'm getting here is the word trapezoid.  I know I need to check out some definitions of this word to understand better why this is presenting itself to me. 

The shaping is triangular.

The balance of color...2 red, 3 (or 5) blue, and 6 (or 7) green.

The chart is moving in a vertical direction.

The hemisphere and quadrant emphasis is fairly evenly balanced.

The aspect patterns and the rest I'll mention in a subsequent post.

Will go into more delineation of the above in the next post.





Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 23, 2017, 06:38:41 AM
Hi James, I couldn't sleep last nite as insights from your Huber shapes flooded my mind.....a Eureka moment!
Is there an intuitive image or picture?  What does this say?   Consider the shaping/motivations.    Yes, you are right, the shaping is triangular.   You life theme is revealed by the total images.
     I see an iceburg, with its tip above the horizon pointing to your 10th of career and pointing also to Uranus, planet of astrology, the tip of the iceberg along with Uranus represent your consciousness, also some aspect of your career.
This triangle is represented by the "Striving Figure" below....what you strive for.   Now the bottom of this triangle joins unto a small talent triangle pointing beneath the horizon to the 4th House, the collective, particularly the Tyl site collective forum.
In other words what you are bringing to light in your consciousness, you spread to us people in the collective who are still unconscious about your findings.   You arlert our minds as this small talent triangle points to Mercury.
    Now we can form midpoint pictures from these triangles.   For the striving triangle we get Venus/Saturn = Uranus and for the small talent triangle we get Mercury = Venus/Saturn (use Tyl's "Synthesis Book" or "COSI" by Ebertin for interps.
The striving triangle also has Uranus = Venus/Jupiter.
    Now this striving triangle throws a shadow of itself unto the water represented by the triangle Sun = Moon/Pluto and points into the 4th House of unconsciousness/repression of the collective.
   Now I see a large boat beside the iceberg represented by the triangle Sun, Moon, Neptune....Sun below the surface shows me that you are probing the unconscious, which is a mystery to you(Neptune) and you are trying to bring portions of this bottom part of the iceberg to the surface, to consciousness, represented by you, the Moon in the 9th of Higher Understanding.
The Sun in the 4th connects you to the environment, the collective, particularly the collective Tyl group.
   You also have two linears, namely Mars/Venus and Uranus/Jupiter.....these may come to light later in your readings.
Your LIFE THEME is revealed here....as you said on another post..."My aim is to learn as much as I can and to pass this knowledge on."   Scroll to the left and to the right to see all the shapes in your radical chart.
Your "Shadow Personality" is represented by the part of the iceberg beneath the surface (more on this later in your readings).
    Hudson Valley are you seeing some deep insights here?
     
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on December 23, 2017, 06:51:34 AM
Thanks James and Halina...

Here is my "intuitive" take away James on the first chart"

"An architects "angle" (triangle) lying on top of a paper airplane; The paper airplane lying on top of a pile of loose leaf pages that are blank."

These images appear to be lifting skyward but the angle wants to go one way and the paper plane wants to take another direction. For my money I would leave the interpretation up to you as I have no clue if that is a significant and worthwhile view or pure poppycock.

I think there is something of a danger in this kind of approach when put in the wrong hands. So, I am keenly interested in the follow up discussion here. I've spied the book on the Hopewell Plublisher website and will think about grabbing it (too many projects right now to consider a distraction) later.

My concern is that of the astrologer positioning him or herself as an intermediary of sorts. When we cling to this romantic notion of being "mysterious, esoteric, and elite" overly complicating matters unnecessarily and "mixing" elements that are not necessarily compatible for synthesis, we risk losing our holistic approach in favor of emphasizing a fragmentary one. Oil and water don't mix for example so some presentations will never synthesize into a "solution". If instead we see that this particular age requires no intermediaries, or high priests, then our jobs as astrologers becomes demystified. I think the demystification of astrology is Noel's greatest achievement. Perhaps the Huber Method is not a mixture after all and that's what I will be on the look out for... So, very much looking forward to learn more about it here...

As for Noel's work, my view is that his "objective realization" and analytical work with symbolism is precisely a synthesis with the human being front and center. I think from my point of view that makes all the difference here in that it is not simply astrology "mixed" with humanistic knowledge but those elements combined with the person(s) involved AND their lived experience.

All the best,

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 23, 2017, 12:10:53 PM
Hi James & HVA    A good exercise would be to see what other people had shapes like you.....for example what geometrical shapes did Jung, Freud, Adler have.....guys who studied the unconscious and the "shadow personality".
    I was watching a show on "Investigative Discovery" about an evil Mormon, Ervil LeBaron....February 22, 1925 – August 15, 1981) was the leader of a polygamous Mormon fundamentalist group who ordered the killings of many of his opponents, using the religious doctrine of blood atonement to justify the murders. He was sentenced to life in prison for orchestrating the murder of an opponent, and died there.
    He had at least 13 wives in a plural marriage, several of whom he married while they were still underage, and several of whom were involved in the murders.
Notice he has other geometrical shapes.   A good book for this study is "Aspect Pattern Astrology".   Over 45 distinct Aspect Figures are identified, each with its own meanings.   The aspect pattern reaveals the structure and basic motivations of our consciousness.
    Now look at the Mormon cult leaders 1. Radix   2. Geometrical shapes in radix. below:   Continue reading your book, just thought I'd throw in a little motivation.
Waiting for your next post on your chart.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 24, 2017, 01:39:28 AM
Thank you Halina and Tim for your insights here as to what has come to mind regarding the first step in the Huber method...you've both given me much to consider, which seems to be a strength when one has others look at his or her chart!

Continuing, the majority of aspects in all 3 of my Huber charts are the green colored ones.  Here's what Hopewell (see above) says about the color green...

"A person who lives life in a “green” way will be full of curiosity. They will be sensitive, constantly searching, questing and seeking to understand as much as possible. Their prime motivation would be to learn."

This is spot on.  My life theme.

Hopewell continued, "Do the aspects have a vertical appearance? Are they mostly moving from the IC area at the base of the chart towards the MC at the top? If so, the person’s motivation will be towards individuality. They will be seeking to stand out in some way, to attain recognition. This might make them ambitious, and they could easily neglect their interpersonal relationships as they focus on their need to be noticed and make their mark in the world.  If the aspects move in a more horizontal direction, motivation is more concerned with contact with others. In a horizontal chart the aspects lay predominantly across the chart, from the AC to the DC area. This suggests someone who is oriented towards other people and likely to incorporate this into their personal and professional lives, choosing to work in areas where “people skills” are important. There is a danger that such people will neglect developing their own individuality in favour of working for and supporting others."

Again, very true, although my motivation has been towards individuality rather than material or worldly ambition.

Notice that my natal chart has a dominance of vertical lines, while my past lives chart, the Moon's Node chart, has a dominance of horizontal lines.  This suggests that my past orientation has been more towards others, while this lifetime has been much more oriented towards self or individuality.

Will continue with more next time.

 
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 24, 2017, 07:45:24 AM
Hi James, wow, spot on is right.   I ordered her book and it should be arriving in January.     This lady Hopewell presents it very well and I suggest her books for introductory students.
Her other book is The Living Birth Chart which I have finished reading.
     The Hubers, husband and wife, have more detailed books such as the following:
The Living Clock, which deals more with the Age Point, Highs and Lows periods in your life, etc
Moon Node Astrology which deals with the 3 charts including the Moon Node chart.
Aspect Pattern Astrology which deals with 45 distinct shapes and their interps.
     They have other books but these are the only ones I think I will use as the material is repeated
thru'out the books.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 25, 2017, 12:05:48 PM
       I was always looking for a good description for the meaning of "projection".    Wanda Smit gives a good answer in her interpretation of a "Projection Triangle" in her natal chart:....."She introduces the reader to a better understanding of the aspect patterns in her chart.   About the experiences lived through the most important aspect figure, the projection triangle, she writes:  “Projection is sheer illusion.   Like a film is only make-believe life.” Or  “Yet I know, what I find
disturbing in them, are simply my own destructive and negative emotions, reflected back to me through my projections.   I need more positive people around now, because I am more positive.   Letting go of them is just letting go of my own negativity. When one does get to a point in life where one has withdrawn all one’s own projections and see people as they truly are?”
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Steven7 on December 25, 2017, 12:53:17 PM
Thanks for the teaching, interesting thread .

What pops in your chart James is  Uranus in full aspect to your Mercury the planet of intellect and astrologers. It's getting an inspirational zap from electrical Uranus 180 degrees away.
Their midpoint is  in Scorpio the sign of occult studies.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 26, 2017, 03:46:20 AM
Thank you again Halina, and Steven7.

Let's continue.

The Huber's place much more significance on each person's aspect patterns than they do with the initial intuitive images.  I'll just present two aspect patterns in my natal chart which they mention.

The first one they call Ear/Eye.  It is comprised of one sextile, and the two semi-sextiles which make up that one sextile.  In my natal chart, the sextile is formed between Venus in Pisces, and Jupiter-Saturn in Capricorn.  Mercury is positioned halfway between the two ends of the sextile.

"This small triangular pattern both looks and acts like a tiny radar dish. It is highly sensitive to picking up and storing all manner of information from the surrounding environment. It gathers this in, working most of the time on auto-pilot, stashing it away for future use as and when the occasion demands.  The Ear/ Eye works effectively as an information gatherer. The green semi-sextiles continuously absorb facts, clues, hints, words, visual impressions and anything else of interest from the surrounding environment. These are then stored for future use in the blue sextile aspect, and can be accessed when the need arises."

Again, spot on, but only with topics or concepts which interest me.

Another aspect pattern which they mention has been much more dominant in my life.  They call it the Dominant Learning Triangle.

The Dominant Learning Triangle is comprised of one green quincunx line, one red square, and one blue trine.  You can see it in my natal chart with the square between Sun and Neptune, the quincunx between Sun and Moon, and the trine between Moon and Neptune.

"The Dominant Learning Triangle represents on-going learning for life. This is likely to be an important feature in the life of the person who has one of these in their chart. Lessons which dominate the person’s life theme will come up time and time again, and it is through these that they will learn more about themselves, their interactions with others, and the way they can best develop and present their own skills."

Totally spot on.  Again, my life theme.

Will move ahead next time to the position of planets within a sign, and how they say that affects the planets strength...





Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 26, 2017, 10:37:03 AM
Excellent James, if you are presenting more on aspects I won't jump in yet.....are you?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 27, 2017, 12:44:03 AM
That's OK Halina, you can jump in with whatever at any time.  I'm just giving a very fast overview, so there will be many fine details that remain to be discussed...

OK, the strength of the planets, according to the Huber Method.  More from Joyce Hopewell (see above)...

"The weakest point in a sign is at 0°, the sign cusp. This is on the boundary with the previous sign, so a planet here has little motivation to express itself in the manner of this sign.  Working anti-clockwise through the sign from the cusp, the energy output increases until we reach the strongest point at 11½º. After that the energy decreases until we reach the next cusp at the end of the sign. Between 8º and 18º the energy is considered as strong."

I have Moon at 11 degrees, Neptune at 11 degrees, Sun at 9 degrees, and Mars retrograde at 0 degrees.  We could talk for at least an hour just on my Mars alone...

And notice how this segues into Noel's emphasis on the Aries Point planets...

 ;)

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 27, 2017, 01:00:21 AM
Age Point and Life Clock...

Am still waiting for the book I ordered on this to arrive, so for now I'll just include Hopewell's summary of these important concepts...

"Summary – Life Clock • Age Progression is the Huber method of timing in the horoscope. • Age Point moves anticlockwise from AC at birth, taking 6 years to move through each house. • There is a surge of outward energy at the cardinal points AC, DC, MC, IC , and to a lesser degree at other house cusps. • At the Low Points energy and attention are more directed inward – periods of reflection and ‘taking stock’. – The 8th house Low Point is of particular significance, corresponding with the Low Point of the whole chart and the traditional ‘mid-life crisis’. • Each house is associated with a corresponding psychological life phase. • Life experience through small houses can be intense; large houses can be eventful and hectic but with shallower experiences. • Age Point passing through a change of sign can signal a corresponding change in the quality of psychological life experience. • Conjunction or opposition of Age Point with a planet emphasises experience of those planetary energies, and of related aspect patterns. Other aspects can also be significant, to a lesser degree."
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 27, 2017, 01:07:56 AM
...and will just add the following on the traditional mid-life crisis at around age 45-46...

Mid-Life Crisis

"The 8th house is important. The 8th house Low Point is also the psychological Low Point of the whole chart. This occurs between the ages of 45 and 46; the mid-forties coinciding with the classic age of the mid-life crisis. Very often people face all manner of challenges and have life changing experiences at this Low Point. The psychological life phase is one of transformation and rebirth. 

From around the age of 42 onwards, there is a new orientation in marriage or partnerships, in family commitments and in professional life. By this age most women will have had their children and are starting to think about either returning to work or doing something new or different which will incorporate their own needs and interests as well as those of their family. There may also be a period of utter boredom and teeth-gnashing frustration, for women and men alike, when they ask themselves “What am I doing with my life? I’m doing the same thing day in, day out. What is the point of it all?” 

Big changes can be made at this stage. Many people at this Low Point change their job; some leave the relationship they’re in. They may feel that their environment challenges them to consider what they are doing with their lives, and this forces them to assess how satisfying things are for them in reality. At every Low Point we are closer to the soul’s purpose, but even more so during the intense Low Point experience in the 8th house. We are more keenly attuned to take heed of our inner voice, and to act upon the guidance which comes from within. We connect with what is coming from the circle in the centre of the chart, and we begin to question what we are doing, why we are doing it. We know that changes need to be made.

When we understand the psychological life phases, it’s easier to manage the bad or difficult patch we happen to be going through. We can see that it’s just that – a phase – and that it is not going to go on indefinitely. Issues that are intense and uppermost at the time do pass. Time moves on; hopefully we, engaging our will, can also move on. But the chances are that if we don’t grasp the nettle, meet the challenges that arise at this point in time and deal with them, they will come back again at a later date and demand our attention."



Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 27, 2017, 07:25:18 AM
Here's another quick example...

This person has a 4-planet stellium in their 12th House of "monastery" in their Huber Moon Node chart, which suggests past life tendencies.  Additionally, Neptune is near the MC in the 10th House, while Jupiter tightly squares one of the 12th House planets.

In their natal chart this time around, Sun, Moon, North Node, and two other planets are in their 5th House of creativity, or creative self-expression.

In their Huber House Chart, which suggests a future orientation, it nearly echoes their natal chart this time around, with the emphasis on the 5th House.

This person spent some time in a spiritual community this time around, but eventually left and is successful now in marketing and sales.  Several could not understand why this person left community.

Also note that natal chart North Node is in the 5th...previous lives South Node in the 11th...

 ;)

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 27, 2017, 07:29:24 AM
Attached below is the third chart that the Huber Method utilizes, the Huber House Chart.  Its emphasis is on future orientation.

This is my Huber House chart, and you can see that it is similar to my natal chart.

Will go into some of the subtle differences later...
Title: Re: The Huber Method/James'DynamicCalculations
Post by: Halina on December 27, 2017, 08:06:43 AM
Hi James, Here are your Sign and House strengths chart.   Line 1 shows the inherited Sign qualities and characteristics numerically, the highest figure showing those that will predominate.  In your Dynamic Figure calculations , Line 1 under Cardinal scores 40 as the highest figure in the Motivation sector, with Water scoring highest under Temperament.   You will inheriently have more Cardinal and Water characteristics.   
     However these traits will be modified by the expectation and demands of the environment, which may not have welcomed some of these characteristics.
Line 2 shows totals which relate to the houses, the areas of life experience and expression where expectation for us to "perform" are at their greatest.   In your Dynamic chart, Line 2 under Cardinal scores highest with 49 points in the Motivation sector , with Air highest in the Temperament section. Strong opinions.
    With such high scores under cardinal and water the person is likely to have been conditioned in childhood to focus very strongly on expressing  feelings .
The enviorment however discouraged  water traits and encouraged Cardinal/Air traits, strong ideas, outspoken ideas, forceful communicator.
    Line 3 is arrived at by subtracting the sign scores (inherited traits & characteristics, we bring with us)  from the house scores (what the environment expects and demands from us), to see what we have left.   In Line 3 for Motivation, the highest score is +25 under Mutable, and the highest score under Temperament
is +33 under Fire.  These give high scores for Mutable and Fire..   You were pushed by the environment into displaying these traits.   When plus scores are on the  high side, the person is OVER-FORMED by the environment in these particular traits and qualities.
    The Lowest scores are 0 Fixed under Motiivation and minus 19 under Earth....Fixed Earth.   You have more of these qualities than the environment wants or
or is interested in.  There is a surplus to requirement.   Maybe these qualities were not approved of or encouraged during childhood, so were ignored, not rewarded or even punished in some way.   When Minus scores are found on Line 3, the person is UNDER-FORMED by the environment in these particular traits and qualities.
      Relate the above specifically to your life experience.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 27, 2017, 08:12:57 AM
Thank you Halina, I was wondering if the Huber's gave a way of calculating this manually, but I see that their software does all the work!

Will have to look at this closely, then respond at a later time...

 :)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 27, 2017, 08:30:21 AM
OK, very interesting...

I see that in the Elements-Temperament table that Air shows 42 and Water shows 40.  This sounds about right.  Here's how all this played out.

I was raised by 2 authoritarian parents.  Positive feelings or emotions were permitted to exist; negative feelings or emotions were not permitted to exist.  Rationality, logic, objectivity were expected when it came to the expression of negative emotions.  Otherwise, punishment ensued.

Fixed Earth.  Stubbornness definitely was frowned upon by my parents, but being highly Aquarian and Scorpionic, I eventually had to move 2700 miles away from them when I was 20...

Very instructive table here, Halina.

Thank you.



Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 27, 2017, 08:45:58 AM
Wow, interesting James.   Here's a comparison Natal to House chart and what it means.   A very Red/Green natal chart may become a very blue/green House chart.   The red/green indicates an excess of sensitivity making the person very touchy and prickly and perhaps difficult to get along with.   The blue/green of the House chart would indicate that the conditioning received would have had a softening effect with the environment encouraging them to be a more harmonious person who is easier to live with.
     Now to your 2 charts James...do you see a change from your natal chart to your House chart, or  do things remain basically the same....what is your experience here.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 27, 2017, 09:27:12 AM
Yes, in comparing my Huber Houses Chart to my natal chart, there is a preponderance of green and blue in each; less red.  Thus, I've always been a very harmonious person to live with...at times too harmonious.

Here's what I'm finding interesting with the Huber Method regarding my natal chart and Houses chart.  I'm looking closely at Mars in each.  Mars at 0 degrees is my weakest planet, according to the Huber System.

In my natal chart, Mars makes one incomplete square aspect to Venus.  Venus is reaching out to Mars, but Mars is not completing the aspect, hence the dotted lines on the Mars end.

In my Houses chart, which shows future orientation, Mars is conjunct Moon, is not in aspect to Venus, but is in an incomplete quincunx to Sun, with Mars again being the planet moving away from completing the aspect.

To me, this is nearly a gold mine method here which the Huber's have uncovered.

This seems to be suggesting that I'm beginning to connect energy (Mars) with "ego" Sun and "motherly" Moon rather than with "diva" Venus.

And I would have a hard time arguing with this, since I was married for nearly 20 years, and have been divorced now for nearly 15, and being in a relationship is definitely no longer an overwhelming need in my life.  My "spiritual" life, or soul life, is much more important to me now for the remainder of this lifetime than being needy needing another person, although if the "right" person comes along, I will be open to being in relationship (Venus) again...after all, I have Libra rising in my Western horoscope, along with at least a dozen of my Jyotisha charts.

I like how this Huber System addresses both the broad, general picture, but can also focus in very clearly and minutely on the finer details...and this helps to fill in some of the gaps in others astrological methodology...

 :)

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 27, 2017, 10:01:50 AM
OK, will close out the introduction part of the Huber Method now, and then illustrate some of these principles by various example charts.

Like Western evolutionary astrologers, the Huber Method places a great emphasis on house placement of the North Node in one's natal chart.

I have North Node in the 11th House.

When the Node is in the 11th House, it is important to "learn to be selective when looking for friends and to seek kindred spirits who will turn out to be genuine.  We may be parted from such friends for years but when we meet them again it is as if we had been with them only yesterday.  That is true friendship.  In the 11th House the discovery can be made, as soon as we learn to stop clinging, that loyal devotion is possible even without conditions...one recognizes that one is part of a Whole.  Here one must act, on principle, in accordance with transcendent, universal criteria" (from pages 68-70 in the book by Bruno and Louise Huber, entitled, Moon-Node Astrology.

What I've presented here in this thread is just the tip of the iceberg of what they present in their books.  And, as Halina said, the books of Joyce Hopewell would be a good place to start if you'd like to learn more about the Huber Method.

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 27, 2017, 12:03:31 PM
     Yes, definitely, a gold mine here.   Think I'll add some of mine own info and observations.   So backing up a bit in the posts, here is my Sign/House strength...Innate Strenght & Environment...using Hopewelll's ideas from book "The Living Birth Chart".....still going to order her "Using Age Proression" .
     Below is my Dynamic calculations....I was born with 51Mutable & 31 Earth for Signs strength....which is Virgo for innate.
The  environment encouraged this thru' High School and a University Math/Physics/Science...score 71 Mutable 45 Earth, which
again supports my Virgo, analysing character, and adaptability to stress situations.
     Looking at Line 3, my lowest scores are -3 Cardinal and  -14 Fire, which is Cardinal Fire or Aries....the environment didn't
need this and I was often strapped in public school probably caused by hanging out with impulsive Arien friends.
    Mother was Sun in Aries, tempermental in my early life and father had Moon in Aries....fortunately both mellowed personality wise which helped in my later life.   My melancholic personality helped quiet their tempers
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 27, 2017, 12:36:15 PM
     So what changes have taken place as I moved from my natal early life to my future life.....
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 27, 2017, 12:40:43 PM
Very impressive mutable score Halina.  That makes total sense, considering your curiosity and ongoing continual search for higher knowledge when it comes to different astrological techniques and methodology...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 27, 2017, 12:54:24 PM
Anyone want their charts analyzed via the Huber Method?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 27, 2017, 01:07:04 PM
      O.K. look back 2 posts to my natal chart with its Provacative Triangle, which James will attest to, plus my Ambivalence Triangle and two linears Merc trine Uranus and Venus trine Pluto in 10th.
      Now in my House chart, I am still provocative(Provocative Triangle), still am ambivalent. still have my Merc trine Uranus, linear but have gained some new insight....I have added Merc 30* Venus, more idealistic, Merc 30 Node, conversing more on astrological forums, and have added a STREAMER shape.....I don't have "Aspect Pattern" with its 75 shapes defined yet.....but I think I can analyse what this streamer refers to in my later life.
    There is Mars connecting to Uranus, my interest in astrology in later life.    Moon, the ego planet referring to me connects to Neptune, a more religious outlook, with interests, in the repressed functions of the 12th House.   In this Streamer shape, my Mars also connects to this Neptune....searching for hidden truths that are now becoming conscious.
    The  Streamer seems to have a focal point, the Moon, me.   I notice that in Huber astrology, Sun represent the Father, Saturn represent the mother disciplinarian/moral imprinter, and Moon is me, the child, later the adult.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 27, 2017, 01:10:53 PM
     Great idea to analyze someone's chart James.....wait 'til you get to analyze your life events by Age Point Progression....Wow, gold mine!!!   Tomorrow if I get time I can add your age at different Low Points and High Points around your wheel.....and sign coordinates at that time.   The orb Hubers use for dates are 2 years on either side of the Age Point.   But I find crisis are usually spot on, as are positive hi-lites in one's life.
    So  if you are cousenlling someone and you see natal Uranus at a low point you could ask what happened to them then.    Or if Jupiter is at a High Point you could ask if they experienced something really positive then or within 2 years on either side of the Age Point.
    The Age Point progression also offers opportunities for rectifying one's unknown birthtime or checking if events match a birth time you have but are uncertain of.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 28, 2017, 12:30:15 AM
Thank you Halina.  I believe the Meeting Point of my Moon-Node Age Point and my Radical Age Point took place around age 31, so I'll wait to see if your calculations confirm that approximate age.

Let's move on to more astrological psychology, Huber-style, with a look at the three Huber charts of Bobby Fischer.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Fischer,_Bobby

Attached below is his Huber natal chart, and his Huber Moon-Node chart (previous lives chart)...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 28, 2017, 12:49:06 AM
Wow, OK, well, the first thing that strikes the eye in both charts, but starting with his natal chart, is the beautifully-formed Air Grand Trine comprised of Mars-Uranus-Neptune.

The Huber's call this a Large Talent Triangle.  Hopewell says...

"The related Large Talent Triangle, again all-blue, comprises three trine aspects.  Its motivation is similar in nature [to a Small Talent Triangle], but the potential for expressing the talent involved is already developed and in place."

Llewellyn, Richard. The Cosmic Egg Timer in Colour: Introducing Astrological Psychology (Kindle Locations 1133-1135). HopeWell. Kindle Edition.

Fischer also has a powerful fixed T-Square in his natal chart, comprised of Moon-Mars-Pluto.  They call this an Efficiency Triangle.

"This pattern is a powerhouse of energy. If you have one in your chart feel fortunate that you are endowed with the ability to perform, act, and have end results to show for it too...There is plenty of “doing” capacity to be tapped into here. The Efficiency Triangle wants to get on with the job in hand; it seeks to produce and it is capable of doing so with minimum wastage of effort. The colour of this aspect pattern shows us that it will go about this in a cardinal way.  Combine the mutable motivation of this pattern with all that red, cardinal energy and the end result is the potential to be actively involved in taking on a variety of different tasks in a seemingly tireless fashion. The long red aspect – the opposition – acts as a kind of “battery”, storing the energy which can then be released along the two shorter red aspects – the squares – and out via the apex at the top of the triangle.  The squares are the real workers in this pattern. Squares need to have something to do, and if they don’t have it they become troublesome as the energy gets pent up and seethes quietly beneath the surface, craving release. In more conventional approaches to astrology, squares are often seen as being “problem” aspects, but they will only cause problems if they are not used to their full capacity. In the Efficiency Triangle, they thrive on hard work, utilising the apex planet in this pattern to put this out into the world." 

Will delineate more later...


Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 28, 2017, 07:15:12 AM
Like myself, Fischer has a Dominant Learning Triangle...comprised of Mars-Moon-Neptune...

"Learning triangles are always composed of one red, one green and one blue aspect, giving them the ability to take action using the red aspect, be aware, question and grow with the green aspect, and enjoy the fruits of their labours in the blue aspect as the learning process is completed.  The Dominant Learning Triangle represents on-going learning for life. This is likely to be an important feature in the life of the person who has one of these in their chart."

Llewellyn, Richard. The Cosmic Egg Timer in Colour: Introducing Astrological Psychology (Kindle Locations 1221-1225). HopeWell. Kindle Edition.

Of course, his was used in chess for primarily keeping on top of the latest developments in opening theory...

"Do the aspects have a vertical appearance? Are they mostly moving from the IC area at the base of the chart towards the MC at the top? If so, the person’s motivation will be towards individuality. They will be seeking to stand out in some way, to attain recognition. This might make them ambitious, and they could easily neglect their interpersonal relationships as they focus on their need to be noticed and make their mark in the world."

His Mars receives 2 red aspects and 2 blue aspects.  It is an important planet for him since it is involved in all the aforementioned aspect patterns...

"Planets receiving aspects of more than one colour will be “lit up” in correspondingly different ways. A combination of red and blue aspects will have a stop/go effect on the planet – on the one hand, it will primed for action, and on the other, it won’t be too bothered about doing anything at all. Planets with only red and blue aspects might operate like someone driving with one foot on the accelerator and the other on the brake. Such planets will have an on/off, black-and-white modus operandi with no shades of grey in between."

This was seen several times in his life when he took time off from tournament chess, and also in regards to his hesitancy about playing Spassky in the 1972 world championship.  One minute he was leaving New York to go to Iceland to play, the next minute he was not.  Back and forth, back and forth...

Also notice that his Venus was a blocked-off planet...

"A similar sort of problem can occur for planets that are hidden from the centre of the chart behind a number of aspect lines, particularly red ones. It can be difficult for the person to utilise, contact and become aware of the energies associated with that planet, and the field of experience of the corresponding house."







Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 28, 2017, 07:41:36 AM
Wow, James, You are awesome at this with your analysis....printed them for reading.
Lot of work to do this morning, first, let's confirm your 2 Crossing points, and at what age they occur.   Then, I will give your and Fischer Age Progression chart with Peaks and Valleys since don't know if astrodienst can do this for you.
      Don't post too much stuff beyond Fischer's Age Progression years and your own Progression chart analysis for today as there is a lot to digest here.
      Fischer's first Crossing Point, C1, is at 10Leo00, January 16, 1946 and his second Crossing Pt is 10Aq00, on Feb 2, 1982.    The allowable orb either side of these is shown top left corner.
     Next, I am posting yours and Fischer's Age Point Progression charts.   Each House takes 6 years to cover, regardless of House Size.    So that's 30 degrees in 6 years or 5 degrees per year. or 25 minutes per month, or 50 seconds per day.    I give this table to help you estimate where the Age Pt is at as it moves CCW around the wheel.
     So as APt is at 2nd Cusp you are 6 years old, 12 years old at 3rd Cusp, 18 years old at 4th cusp.....and 72 years when you come back to Asc.
     Age Point activates shapes and planets....using these aspects only...0, 30, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180.   You can start analyzing Fischer's and your Age Point progressions during high points in your career and low points.....don't forget C1 and C2 if you are old enough for C2.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 28, 2017, 11:07:28 AM
Thank you Halina for these charts!

7/6/27 will be my second crossing point...so the first would have been back on 7/6/91 with a 165-day allowable orb...

I would have been 30 then...

At 3 degrees, 9 minutes Aries in the 6th House...and the second one will thus take place in the 12th House...

Huber labels the 6th and 12th Houses as the Existence Axis...

"In the existence axis, we have to do with being or not-being in a this-worldly and an other-worldly sense...The 6th...is deeply involved in the environment and is completely dependent on the world...The 12th House, which stands aloof from the world, is that inner space in which questions concerning existence per se are asked..." (from page 123 in Moon-Node Astrology, by Bruno and Louise Huber).

Very true.  At age 30 I was still very much concerned with making my mark in the world.  And by 2027 I will be back in spiritual community (12th House).

Thank you Halina.

Will look at Fischer's charts later...





Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 28, 2017, 05:10:32 PM
Thanks James, I'm currently reading "Moon Node Astrology: The Inner Compass of Evolution", where the authors deal with the archetypes.   "Wherever the Sun is placed in our Moon Node horoscope, there we are in control of our lives."
    He describes the Materialist archetype, Earth Houses 2,6,10 and axis 2/8...."From the archetypal viewpt we call the  2/8 axis, the "Mafia-axis when extortion, menaces and retaliation, are the order of the day.   At this stage the law "an eye for an eye", a "tooth for a tooth" is in force, along with vendettas, revenge and retribution.   Fair game to seize anything of material value.   Over the years laws safeguarding property have evolved.
     Archetypal Stimulus words for materialism: the rich, banker, land owner, Mafia, fear of starvation, war and destruction.
The authors don't give any example people, so I thought I would test the Moon Node chart of Lucky Luciano, a mafia figure, with special attention to his 2nd/8th House axis.   Wow!  Have a look.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 28, 2017, 06:10:49 PM
     Below are 3 Moon Node charts signifying the past.   These charts use natal North Node as Ascendant and planets are placed clockwise not ccwise as in natal.    The Moon Node charts are for Bobby Fischer, James and Halina.   Halina's MoonNode chart suggest a monastic life of religion, in a past life.
There is a religious cross symbol, Sun-Moon square Jupiter-Pluto.  Venus, love joins the cross.  Religious signs are present, Pisces in 9th, Sagittarius in 12th.
Talent triangle Moon-Neptune-Mars also goes thru' the center.   Majority of planets on the "I" side suggest a love of solitude and Venus in 12th, echoes this.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 29, 2017, 01:53:46 AM
Thank you Halina.  Yes, Lucky wasn't so lucky...

Looks like I had too much control in the past...Sun in the 8th with Pluto right on the Ascendant...

Makes sense as to why I was born this time to a Scorpio rising mother with Moon tightly conjunct Pluto in her chart!

And power struggles galore...

 ;D
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 29, 2017, 02:19:26 AM
It's interesting...in just the last 11 months, I've had two specific situations in which I was forced into having little to no control.  Once at the end of January (the 27th), and the other beginning in early April, and it took me nearly 6 damn weeks to finally come to a place of resignation and non-attachment to that one...it's probably good that I don't have a normal or average Mars this time around, as I'd be back in the same place I've been in previous lives with too much dominance...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 29, 2017, 02:23:02 AM
BTW, very nice 12th House there Halina!  This is one of the more powerful capabilities of the Huber Method, that Moon-Node previous lives chart!  It really gives some outstanding info regarding what we've focused on in the past...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 29, 2017, 02:37:55 AM
And thank you for the PM on the 12th of this month, Halina, suggesting that I check out the Huber Method!  I didn't see your message until the 14th, but it's been 15 days now since I first learned about it, so thank you for that suggestion!
Title: Re: The Huber Method/Bobby Fischer
Post by: Halina on December 29, 2017, 08:07:29 AM
     James, here is the aspects the Age Point makes to Fischer's natal planets and points, at his different ages in life.   So if you print out his biography from Wiki which will give important dates, check the chart to see what aspects his Age Point makes to his natal points.    His wiki biography can be found here....
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fischer
In Table below, IN stands for INGRESS, LP stands for LOW POINT, I think IP stands for INGRESS to House Cusp.
Title: Re: The Huber Method/Williams Age Pt Progressions
Post by: Halina on December 29, 2017, 08:26:25 AM
Hi James, here is a similar Age Point Progressions Aspect Table for you......showing what aspects, ingresses etc the Age Pt made to natal points, from which you can describe the effect on you at that time in your life.    Happy analysis, a gold mine here.   Date orb, I believe is 165 days either side of the Age Point, which is 5+ months either side of the Age Point's location date at that time.    In the books, Hopewell and Huber use 2 years either side of the Age Point.   Will be exciting to see your analysis of Fischer and your own.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 29, 2017, 08:45:15 AM
Thank you Halina...will work on them this weekend!
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 29, 2017, 02:18:25 PM
Hi James, just came to an interesting part in Moon Node Astrology book by the Hubers, which highlights your current view points on marriage.   If you have the book this is expressd on pages 177 to 178 where the example 2 charts is given by Maria whose Moon Node Sun is in the 7th of relationships.   So in the past she was very "other" oriented and now in the current radix after a few more lifetimes her natal Sun is displaced to her 1st House and she is paying more attention to herself.   Anyway read these pages....here are a few quotes that remind me what you said about marriage as your Moon Node chart also had Sun in 7th and now in radix has been displaced to the 4th House.....more interest in the collective instead of partnerships.
     "People with Sun in the 7th of the Moon Node horoscope have laid up a rich store of experience where partnership is concerned.   They know all about love and marriage and the negative aspects also."   People with this Moon Node house heavily tenanted can be called "7th House specialists."
     "It is clear from the law of evolution that this development must be followed thru' to the end to give validity to the "other" side of the horoscope.
Everything became reversed in the radix, her situation now.   Maria's Sun is at the "I" point, the Asc.   She ought to develop her personal ego and to break free for her "You" dependency.  Of course the old pull of the "you" will always be there, for the Moon Node horoscope represents a long-lasting effect which is stored in the shadow.   (As you said James you would consider a partnership if it were right).
      With such a drastic displacement from one side of the chart to the other, development is likely to be hurried on by some profoundly disturbing experience.
Only in this way can ingrained habits be overcome.   The child is likely to suffer a trauma in early childhood.    Here the experience was one that spoiled the
sense of closeness to the "You".
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on December 29, 2017, 03:21:38 PM
James:

If you don't mind being open/raw about your N Mars this time around I would like to know more about what you mean. Admittedly, I am coming into the discussion between you and Halina mostly, in the middle and will have to catch up to better comprehend the points made. But, if I could say that a Mars cj the AP is nothing to snicker at; is very strong in an indirect way--but maybe I am totally missing your point. Apologies in advance if I missed the boat!

Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 30, 2017, 12:20:59 AM
Thank you Halina, I'll read that chapter later on today!

Stacy, thanks for helping me to clarify this!

Regarding my natal retrograde Mars at 00 degrees Cancer...

First, notice that according to Huber Methodology, it is away from the center circle of the chart, blocked by the Venus-Uranus quincunx.  As Joyce Hopewell wrote, "It can be difficult for the person to utilise, contact and become aware of the energies associated with that planet..."

Second, according to Huber Methodology, Mars receives a weak square aspect from Venus.  Notice the dotted line on the Mars end.  Again, Hopewell..."For some combinations, the orbs of the two planets are different; one is theoretically ‘in aspect’ while the other is not. Such a ‘one-way aspect’ is shown with a ‘half-dotted’ line on the side of the planet which is not ‘in orb’. The relationship between the two planets is in one direction only, so not so strong."

Now, strength in sign.  "The weakest point in a sign is at 0°, the sign cusp. This is on the boundary with the previous sign, so a planet here has little motivation to express itself in the manner of this sign.  Working anti-clockwise through the sign from the cusp, the energy output increases until we reach the strongest point at 11½º. After that the energy decreases until we reach the next cusp at the end of the sign. Between 8º and 18º the energy is considered as strong."

Now, strength in house.  According to the Huber methodology, my Mars is situated in the 9th House, located between what they call the cusp of the house, and the Balance Point of the house.  "The area between cusp and Balance Point is the cardinal zone of the house; planets in this area are motivated to action – to ‘doing’."

So, to bring all this together and sum up...

Because of its location within the house, my Mars is motivated to action--to doing.  However, because it is at 00 degrees, it has little motivation to express itself in the manner of its sign.  And because it is blocked off from the center of the chart, its energies can be difficult to utilize.

Then throw in the retrograde motion, and here is how all of this has played out typically in my life...

Some other person is open to initiating something with me.  My first reaction--my energy--moves inward to consider all the ramifications.  To see whether or not it feels right (Cancer).  That's the retrograde motion.  The other notices my hesitancy, then thinks that I may be displeased with them or they don't measure up, or something's wrong with them, etc., and that closes down the contact between us.  Retrograde Mars goes inward first.  In other words, we retrograde Mars look before we leap.  A non-retrograde Mars leaps first, then looks later.  That's the difference.

Now, Noel's definition of an Aries Point planet.  "Any point or planet configured with the AP is going to be brought forward; it is going to be noticed easily, it is going to ask to be noticed, it is going to issue into the vocational profile because that is a large part of how we need to be noticed by our world" (from page 22 in his Vocations book).

This is true as well.  I was one hell of a counselor because of my ability to feel and empathize with the other, to be able to walk a mile in their shoes.  Very strong intuition and feeling sense.  Others can notice this when they enter my energy field.

OK, I think that's enough, lol.

Thanks again Stacy for the prompt to clarify.  Hope this doesn't muddle things further...

 ;D









 
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 30, 2017, 12:30:34 AM
One other point of clarification--hopefully, lol.  The Huber Method says that my ability to empathize and nourish others comes from my strong Moon at 11 degrees Cancer.  Not from my Mars at 00 degrees Cancer.

And yet Noel and the Huber Method both state that my Mars is motivated to action--to doing.

But only after I first check to see whether or not it "feels" right...

Usually...LOL.

A natal retrograde Mars is often direct in transit, yes?!

LOL.



Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 30, 2017, 12:35:13 AM
And one other very important thing from a Jyotisha viewpoint...

My natal Mars in my D1 chart is in Ardra nakshatra...the teardrop...

Halina (and certain others) knows what I'm getting at here...

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 30, 2017, 12:45:46 AM
Another question arises...

I see that my natal Mars began its retrograde motion around 69 days before I was born.  It was then at 18 degrees Cancer.  It went retrograde into Gemini around 7 days after I was born.

So perhaps the argument could be made that a retrograde planet at 00 degrees is not as weak as a direct planet at 00 degrees.

Would be an interesting question to ask someone like Joyce Hopewell...

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 30, 2017, 09:25:48 AM
Hi James, here's the Huber Regulus program interpretation(s) for your Mars......
"Mars is Retrograde

A Retrograde Mars may indicate that in past lives you did not stand for your own interests and suffered more internal stress than you were capable of handling. Now you; over-think an action, repress justified anger and let self doubt hold you back. To overcome any lack of direction begin by releasing a fear of the unfamiliar. Express your emotions honestly and stand for your convictions before frustration becomes a powder keg, fused and ready to blow. Discover who you are by observing yourself in action and direct dynamic energy towards constructive outlets in order to realize your goals."


Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on December 30, 2017, 11:52:28 AM
      Here is Joyce Hopewell's site with interesting articles and oodles of other Huber technique stuff:

  ...........www.joycehopewell.blogspot.org......   and don't forget to subscribe to her articles by submitting your e-mail.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 30, 2017, 01:45:00 PM
Thank you Halina!
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 30, 2017, 03:49:57 PM
Of course, a retrograde Mars does have its advantages as well...its naturally inward-turning motion has been fantastic for me these last 31 years in regards to Tantra, Kundalini, Kriya Yoga, and Taoist energy movement, all of which have to do with internal rather than external energy...

 ;D
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 30, 2017, 04:02:46 PM
And a retrograde Mars will also be helpful in regards to the following from the Hubers book, LifeClock...

From the 55th to the 58th year of life, one "may become an authority figure for others...or be needed by the collective.  At the same time, however, the private sphere becomes limited.  When one is externally exposed, one may be internally isolated.  This phase of experience should fulfill life expectations and therefore should corroborate the true qualities of the individual.  At this age, people are often called to public or communal duty" (p. 58).

I've been experiencing all of this during this age period....
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on December 30, 2017, 04:07:41 PM
OK, I think we've done a nice job of plugging the Hubers here on this thread...my cardinal energy wants to initiate something else now...Halina, feel free to keep adding on here if you like.  I know we've only touched upon just a few of their lifelong principles and astrological techniques...

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 04, 2018, 06:30:25 PM
     If we look for shapes in the natal of Bobby Fischer....we find a Decorative Figure made up of all 3 colors.   It is made up of a Grand Trine attached to a Dominant Learning Triangle.   Huber says of this 4 sided figure "It resembles a battering ram....a bit of a bulldozer, who moves unstoppably until a solution to
a problem is found....these people are tough and give intensly, have great tenacity, and are very determined."  ref. "Aspect Patterns" by Hopewell.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 04, 2018, 08:22:24 PM
And a retrograde Mars will also be helpful in regards to the following from the Hubers book, LifeClock...

From the 55th to the 58th year of life, one "may become an authority figure for others...or be needed by the collective.  At the same time, however, the private sphere becomes limited.  When one is externally exposed, one may be internally isolated.  This phase of experience should fulfill life expectations and therefore should corroborate the true qualities of the individual.  At this age, people are often called to public or communal duty" (p. 58).

Very interesting, James.
"needed by the collective" is being called back Home?  Regardless, I resonate to this.
 Thanks for posting many unusual takes on Astrology~
Stacy


I've been experiencing all of this during this age period....
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 05, 2018, 03:37:39 AM
Hi Stacy,

No, I was called back home to serve my father at age 47, not at 55 to 58.  That will be when I return to spiritual community.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on January 06, 2018, 08:12:22 AM
Forum,

Years back I remember reading an article about the different personality types identified by a particular color. Essentially, the "system" was replacing the jargon used to identify each type by another name, in each case that name was a "color." This particular approach seemed to give its author a certain mystique and authority in a way that the academic eschews, BUT also seemed to draw in a reasonably large audience and keep them captivated. There was a very real and practical benefit that encouraged practitioners to FOCUS and CONCENTRATE on more narrow tendencies on the part of the 'other' person they were COMMUNICATING with because this approach "tricked" practitioners to pay close attention to how the 'other' spoke, in essence they were persuaded to listen more attentively by SORTING for the ascribed tendencies that suggested a certain "COLOR". Simple but brilliant.

Yellow       Phlegmatic

Blue          Sanguine

Green       Melancholy

Red           Choleric


Yellow represent about 35% of the population, Blue represent perhaps 15%, Green another 35% and Red another 15%. Teachers, Sales People, Accountants, and CEO types fill the respective hues of personality across that spectrum from Yellow to Red. The presentation I saw certainly tickled my astrological wonder as astrologers have long known that color is an important aspect of astrology in that certain signs and planets resonate and communicate using varying vibrations and qualities of color.

The realm of psychology has studied color associations dating back to the 19th century according to this excellent article linked below. Thanks so much to James and Halina for posting their prodigious review of this astrological method. James, I really marvel at your striving and intellectual curiosity;how you seek to make connections between systems. What a rich dialog you and Halina have shared with us...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4383146/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4383146/)

So, I did not buy the book but it looks interesting enough to put on the wish list. I did however bookmark Joyce Hopewells blogspot. I also spent a few minutes exploring the Astrodienst chart capabilities. Wow! Another reason to compliment you both... I'm just at the beginning stages of researching astrological software again for the first time in years... so I will be messaging you Halina... Looks like you may have one of each...  ;)

One of the most difficult challenges in astrology is "where to start." In some ways the Huber method seems to have taken the tact of using an imaginative part of the brain that seeks out patterns. Articles about the Superior Pattern Processing by the brain, identified with the prefrontal lobe, can be found on the ncbi website as well. I have to tip my hat to Noel's take on this quandary by his elegant use of hemisphere emphasis combined with thousands of cases that lends a practical credibility if not evidence to his interpretive significance of the hemispheres. Still, the color and shape view presented here is fascinating if not for its vulnerability to "underpowered sampling." Basically, my take on Huber is that it is a FUN and REFRESHING concept to explore, and no doubt much more substantive as the study delves deeper into the astrological aspects presented (of which James mentions this thread is but a sketch).

But what would you expect from someone whose "shape" and "color" appears balanced, if somewhat precariously on a wave. Like an origami boat with sails set. The Main stay significantly tall and strong to catch the trade winds. The vessel grounded by a strong and purposeful rudder. The picture is at once both a boat flying on water and that of a bird swimming in air.

It's a bit early in the year to hand out most intriguing post for the year AWARD but I do think this one will be in the running come December.

All the best,

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 06, 2018, 05:54:19 PM
Hi Stacy,

No, I was called back home to serve my father at age 47, not at 55 to 58.  That will be when I return to spiritual community.

I don't understand James, you are there now coming up on 57. ? What does that mean to you (returning to spiritual community)?

Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 07, 2018, 05:20:50 AM
Thank you HVA, for the kind comments re introducing the Huber Method post.....yes a refreshing approach and thanks also to
James Williams for his analytical examples and references to good Huber & Hopewell books.
     I thank you for bringing up the humors and their correspondences to colors.....I have never seen this, altho I have read
quite a bit on the humors....will have to investigate your links more deeply.....especially looking if there are any books on this.
     If you do ask or email me on astrological programs please specify which branch of astrology you are particularly looking at....for example....analysis of chart or Harmonics or asteroids or medical interps....or best general program.  I own the following astrological programs; Solar Fire, Sirius, Janus, Halloran, Jaganatha Hora(Vedic), Regulus(Huber), Astrocora(Huber).
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 07, 2018, 06:15:38 AM
Thank you again Tim for your gracious and kind sentiments...I really need to credit Halina for suggesting that I would benefit from checking out the Huber Method, as she was right on target!

Stacy, I haven't yet returned to a spiritual community.  I'm waiting until later this spring at the earliest, and it most likely will occur sometime before December.

Perhaps I need to emphasize more of the Huber Method besides the colors and the aspect patterns.  I just don't really like to cover what they've already explained more thoroughly than I could in their 8 books.

For example, if Stacy had a reading with the Hubers, they certainly would have asked her about her time period between the ages of 12 to 18, and when you understand their reason for doing so, it makes perfect sense.

 :)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 07, 2018, 07:11:35 AM
Tim, now that I've had my morning cup of joe, I've just looked at your Huber Natal Chart, and here's what came to mind...

Balanced leapfrog.

LOL.

Not that I'm seeing a balanced leapfrog, mind you, but these words came to mind.  So you can enjoy playing around with them, lol.

More seriously, there's an interesting contrast between all 3 of your Huber charts.  Your Moon Nodes past lives chart displays a horizontal emphasis, while your Houses future orientation chart displays a vertical emphasis.  And your Huber natal chart displays both.

Also notice the fine difference in your Mercury-Pluto opposition.  In your natal chart, there's a solid vertical red line.  But in your Nodes chart, there's a broken horizontal red line.  And in your Houses chart, another solid vertical red line.  A similar pattern shows up in your Moon inconjunct Neptune in all 3 charts.  And in Uranus aspects to Sun and Moon in all 3 charts.

I find these patterns much more suggestive than Hopewell's overall subconscious impression exercise.

Also interesting that your North Node is right on the cusp of the MC in your natal and Houses charts.  But clearly in the 10th House in your Nodes chart...



Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 07, 2018, 08:02:32 AM
Oh James --what a tease you are!!

Sorry, just don't have the time or energy to read the Huber books, or frankly anything but my precious Taylor Caldwell collection I am re-reading!! --so, of course, try and get the answers the easy way (from your brain, lol!).

Seriously, though admittedly I haven't tried I do not know what my 12-18 yrs. in Huber-land would indicate other than it was very stressful; sad; hard.  Can you please elaborate even if briefly and put an end to my toe-tickling?   ;)

thanks,
Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 07, 2018, 12:47:21 PM
Stacy, here ya go...

age 0-6 = 1st House

age 6-12 = 2nd House

age 12-18 = 3rd House

etc. etc. etc.

Now, who has 50 million planets in her 3rd House?

 ;D
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 07, 2018, 02:30:43 PM
James--well, ok, BUT: I always have and have a traffic jam in my 3rd....nothing new there.
???

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 08, 2018, 06:17:35 AM
Stacy, and that's exactly why the Huber Method focuses upon ages 12-18 for you, since you have all those planets in the 3rd House...

If they were in the 5th House, then the Huber Method would ask you about ages 24-30.

If they were in the 7th House, then the Huber Method would ask you about ages 36-42.

Etc., etc., etc.

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 08, 2018, 08:03:07 AM
Stacy, and that's exactly why the Huber Method focuses upon ages 12-18 for you, since you have all those planets in the 3rd House...

If they were in the 5th House, then the Huber Method would ask you about ages 24-30.

If they were in the 7th House, then the Huber Method would ask you about ages 36-42.

Etc., etc., etc.

Guess I am missing the point. H method indicates those were rough years for me?  Or is there a more specific message there?   ???
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 08, 2018, 09:12:43 AM
Hi Stace,  Your Low Point for your 3rd House occurred on Oct 17, 1977, aged 15yrs, at 14Aq17.   Orb 5.5 months either side of that date for events.
     Here are aspects that were leading up to that Low Point:
Age Point conj natal Sun, June 1, 1977
Age Point conj natal Venus, Aug 15, 1977
Age Point square natal Neptune, Aug 29, 1977
     So a Huber counsellor would ask you what happened around those dates....orb 5.5 months before or after the dates.
You could also look at transits and solar arcs around that time to emphasize those events.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 08, 2018, 09:26:54 AM
Ah..many thanks, Halina.

Sometime between age 15-16 my mother suddenly announced to me one Sunday afternoon that she was leaving - us, the family. My siblings knew months ago. I was the last to know, as usual.  To add insult to injury, she would come back begging for food and toiletries when my dad wasn't there, and make me and my little bro. feel guilty for having good food (My Cancer Sun/Taurus Moon father was a good provider, if nothing else). Little bro. took his serious emotions (Pisces Moon opp Virgo Ur-Pl) out on me and resents me to this day for 'trying to be his mother'. She ruined a lot of lives, this restless Sag. Asc./Sag. Moon mom who went to be with my Taurus sister, her favorite given the many Virgo-Taurus trines between them. Yes, until age 18 life was unstable, though after that life had it's own other challenges...

I should note ages 12-18 were my most painful in various ways (until recent years), so that's amazingly accurate!

Just copied and pasted your interp., Halina. Thank you again :)

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 08, 2018, 09:54:38 AM
Thanx Stacey,  Here are the aspects that were activated along with that Low Point in the 3rd of kin.
  Sun square Neptune, 12th;  Sun opp Pluto;  Sun opp Node;  Venus square Neptune, 12th;  Venus 150 Pluto;  Venus opp Node.
In Huber astrology, Sun represents the father, Saturn the mother and Moon, you.    Your chart shows Saturn-Mars, representing the mother. 
Mars-Saturn, mother connects to Uranus, ruler 4th, mother....this aspect describes the mother.
Sun aspects were activated during this time period showing the father's adjustments.   Venus represents your emotions then.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 08, 2018, 10:51:42 AM
Halina:

It all makes sense, especially my N Sun sq Neptune. My dad's alcoholism was predictably triggered after my mom left us and there was constant bingeing, trouble with the law and neighbors because of his drinking and violent acts; bunches of Dad's many other drunken friends hanging around now that Mom - the - Gatekeeper was gone. And so on. All the aspects come together to provide a clear picture of this nightmare of a puzzle.

Unfortunately. though the acts are finished the damage lingers on. All of us were casualties, but my sensitive-yet-macho dad and brother suffered the most, or rather handle it the most poorly.

thanks again,
Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 08, 2018, 10:57:40 AM
Stace, while you were posting, I simultaneously added more info to the previous post.   Below is your Age Point Progression, the cross-hair symbol is near the 56 year mark, showing the activation again of these 3rd House planets.   Pluto-Sun and Pluto-Venus aspects are activated.....Pluto rules your Asc, your environment, which accounts for the Scorpio, accursed types you are encountering...Venus, female, money, rules your 7th, open enemies, previous caretaker.   Sun rules 10th, reputation,...she is attacking your reputation.   Pluto is Rx, so refers to someone in your PAST.....yep, your previous SCORPIO caretaker....and Pluto refers to money owed.
    Why is all this happening?....look at the dip in the wave,at 56.....you are entering another LOW POINT.    Virgo, 11th...Virgo rules caretakers/servants/workers
Look at the dip or wave line at age 56....it is colored RED, suggesting action....your caretaker says she's taking court action....you in turn are taking defensive action of some sort.   Waves are colored either Red, cardinal, action....or Blue, fixed, stay put, or Green, mutable, adaptable.....and alternate around the circle.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 08, 2018, 03:06:37 PM
OMG Halina!!   Eureka - explains my current life cycle over and above traditional secondary charts. Just remarkable. And with this chart and graphics it makes better sense to me.

Question: near 1980 on the bottom where my 3rd house was activated-----it simply means my cycle has come full circle pretty much and is repeating itself? I would expect some involvement with my sibling pretty soon based on this and also what my psychic-medium said, and my next/final Saturn return is creeping along which will stir up my whole 3rd house soup! (not to mention the coming eclipse and last August's eclipse point. I believe in the 6 mos. 'rule' so have a few more weeks for something at Regulus's point to occur). Come to think of it, T Pluto is right on my Su/Mo @ 3rd house cusp. Going to be even busier...

I think I will go out with a bang of sorts ;).

thanks again H  :)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 08, 2018, 07:38:04 PM
Hi Stace, yes, in this cycle, which is above the horizon, you are now in CONSCIOUS awareness of why things are as they are....36 years earlier with Age Point below horizon, you were UNCONSCIOUS, unaware of why things were happening.
      By the way, at 9 years a good event, at 18 years a bad event, at 27 years a good event, and at
36 a bad event, at 45 years a good event, at 54 years a bad event....the ebb and flow of life event....
not only is this a Huber cycle, it is also the well known ECLIPSE cycle.  Orb plus 2 years...as 18.5 is the actual length between eclipses in the same Saros series.   So your meeting Pluto types would happen 54 plus 2 equals near your 56th year.
      So like Rip Van Winkle who fell asleep, unconscious for many years, we awaken to consciousness.
Your post above says the same, congrats....yes the same event repeating....re 3rd House sibling.
Age Point opp Mercury, sibling, Rx, the PAST, in 3rd, siblings.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 08, 2018, 10:39:52 PM
Thank you Halina and Stacy for fleshing this out some more...very instructive!

 :)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 09, 2018, 05:41:04 AM
Once again you nailed it, Halina!

Won't bore everyone with each incident from each age noted, but at age 18 a very painful/bad event: my mom kicked me out to go live with my alcoholic father while she enjoyed cozy life with my other 2 siblings. That was the first of a lifetime of estrangements between us that never were resolved (on this side of the veil! I did receive a message I believe is authentic from my psychic-medium claiming to be my mother. Gives me chills just to think about it so accurate it was).

James: you stared another thought-provoking thread

Sista ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 09, 2018, 08:26:19 AM
Hi Stace, planets on the cusp of a House (Koch system) are considered to be in a high stress area.   Your Uranus conj 10th cusp rules 4th, Home, mother...a high stress area.     Mercury near the cusp of the 4th, Mother, also highly stressed.
     The coming Eclipse Feb 15, 2018, at 27Aq07, is conj your 4th cusp, 27Aq29, this eclipse is Saros Series 1 South.
According to Bernadette Brady..."This family of eclipses is concerned with ideas & their enthusiastic expression.   If this eclipse affects your chart, you will be flooded with ideas or options.   There may seem to be an element of haste, but if you can go with the new ideas, they will have positive outcomes."
    This Series occurred 1900-2050, in the following years:
1909, 1927, 1946, 1964, 1982, 2000, 2018, 2036... ends Sept 22, 2973.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 09, 2018, 08:45:24 AM
Thank you Stacy,

And more of the same during the following?!...

From your birthday in 1989 to your birthday in 1990...

From your birthday in 2001 to your birthday in 2002...

From your birthday in 2013 to your birthday in 2014...

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 09, 2018, 09:41:47 AM
Yup, Halina, the Jan-Feb lunations always hit exactly in my chart it seems. This Jan. 31 will hit my stellium smack dab though I had not looked ahead to Feb. 15 yet. (My brother's b-day is Feb. 14, BTW).

Since my mom is deceased, the 10th house authority figure activation probably refers to my problems with my primary care physician who I just gave notice to. I have great specialists but have had regular problem in finding a suitable PCP as frequently as finding a caregiver!

Thanks for head's up :)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 09, 2018, 01:44:18 PM
Hi Stace, the January 31 Lunar Eclipse at 12 Leo falls in your 9th House opp your Sun-Venus conj in your 3rd House, mind/bro.....so your 3rd/9th axis is activated.
This eclipse is also the same Saros Series as your Solar Eclipse in Feb., i.e. 1 South.   Again, Bernadette Brady gives the interps for this Lunar Eclipse S1:
       "This family of eclipses is concerned with ideas and their enthusiastic expression.   If this eclipse affects your chart, you will be flooded with ideas or options
(from Halina & James about your Huber chart).   There may seem to be an element of haste (to find out more about your Huber charts), but if you can go
with the new ideas (presented by James & Halina), these ideas will give you positive outcomes."

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 09, 2018, 02:26:49 PM
Hah, Halina to the rescue, again!  (Am sure missing my astrology library, especially eclipses as I receive so many exact hits to several, it seems)

Definitely open to ideas/options (a 3rd house concept?)...like how to deal with all the circumstances that I must deal with as noted a prior post of yours!!  We have Bros.James and Antonio who might suggest to go quietly and forgive/let go (not jesting, gents), but I suspect I have lessons to learn and teach which require a response or action usually.  It seems I have to deal with something every day; never a quiet, rainy Tr 12th house Moon day like today where I can be a hermit inside and read!  It's 2:30 pm and just now time to get in some of my latest Rosemary Althea book and fix on mediums and life on the other side ;).

To James's thread: the idea that keeps on giving - lol!

Sista Stace
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 11, 2018, 03:22:37 PM
Stacy, was reading some of the Huber books earlier, and your 3 Huber charts are extremely instructive...

They wrote, "In making an assessment...We ask, 'Where is this problem rooted?' (MNH), 'How does it manifest itself in the present situation?' (radix), 'What contributions have been made by the actual life situation, i.e., what solutions has the milieu proposed during the upbringing?' (HH).  From page 214 in Moon-Node Astrology.

Attached again below is your Huber Moon Node Horoscope, which emphasizes previous lifetimes, and your Huber Natal or radix Chart.

I'm struck by everything being sucked into the 7th House in your previous lives chart, so obviously your energy was with others, others, others, and others, lol.

Now this has spilled over into this lifetime with an emphasis regarding your 3rd House stellium...siblings, neighbors, and the 6th/12th axis of your parents.

But the difference in your radix chart (and the more future-oriented Houses Horoscope) is that the aspects are now vertical, not horizontal.  In other words, this time the emphasis should not be so much on others and their behavior, but on your own individual development, or individuation.

It's like in baseball, where a pitcher throws a fastball, another fastball, another fastball, and then a curve ball!  They would say you've been so others-centered in previous lifetimes, but now and in the future it's time to be more Stacy-oriented, that is, be more focused on your own individuation process, and not be so caught up nor entwined with what others do or don't do.

It's just so striking a difference between your Moon-Node Horoscope with everything being sucked into that 7th House, and now with your radix chart and Houses Horoscope with all the verticality!

And this would make sense also as to why you have a 9th House North Node...in order to make such a shift, you need to access a higher perspective, higher knowledge, higher wisdom.

Make sense?!

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 11, 2018, 09:52:54 PM
Oh thank-you  thank-you thank-you James! When I saw the others...was hoping for such chart(s) but didn't want to ask given how much you have already done.

That explains a lot. I wondered what was wrong with me for having chosen and living such an independent chart. Though I have had many, many relationships in my day (Venus-Jupiter) and knew relationships were a karmic theme this time around (Nodal axis square Asc.), I always knew, even as a kid, even after several marriage proposals ---even with living with my various bfs--that I would remain single. Thank goodness I have so much Aquarian/Sagittarian energy to make it tolerable though it has gotten pretty lonely at this stage of the game. And it helps to know I have "been there" already.

But what of the Nodal axis at the MC (in the Lunar Nodes chart)?

Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 12, 2018, 01:25:42 AM
Very welcome Stacy...you knew I'd eventually get around to doing it, lol!

The Hubers would say that the North Node in your Moon-Node Chart would be in the 9th House, even though it is close to the MC.  Here's what they wrote about the 9th Moon-Node house...

"High points here are the mobility and the distant goal.  In this imagery, we invariably encounter open countryside and the light toward which one travels.  The latter tells of hope, and hope decidedly belongs to the 9th house; but it also signifies exploration, an attempt to reach beyond the seen.  The blue horizon always beckons where the landscape melts away, for the 9th house has to do with the search for ultimate truth...The far-away light stands for the enlightenment for which we hope when seeking supreme truth, knowledge, and wisdom" (from pages 100-101 in Moon-Node Astrology).

 ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 12, 2018, 02:05:10 AM
Stacy, it's interesting, both you and I have Sun in the 7th in our Moon-Node Huber Charts, and we've had similar feelings or emotions regarding partnerships, even though our scenarios have been completely different...

You mention your scenario above, and mine was different in that I was married for nearly 20 years, and yet, I knew early on in that relationship, even before we got married, that this relationship was extremely karmic, and what I mean by that was that I knew we were to be together in order to address some serious karma which we had both accumulated in the past.

And when that karma was exhausted nearly 20 years later, then we went on separately towards what was written further on in the script for both of us...

Halina alluded to this earlier in this thread when discussing my charts, but it bears repeating...

"If there are several planets in the 7th House of the Moon-Node horoscope, there is nearly always a talent for matters relating to partnership.  The native may even be considered a partnership specialist, because of the way he or she has learned to live with close companions over many lives" (p. 164 in Moon-Node Astrology).

I don't know about you, but this totally resonates with me.  I was the youngest of three siblings, so I came in having to adjust to others already established routines and scenarios.  I went to just one school from the time I was 5 to the time I was 18, and people who were with me then as well will say that I had a penchant for always being able to fit in, whether it be with the hoods or the jocks, as they were called back then.

When I moved out to California from Ohio at age 20, my first living quarters was shared with around 9 or 10 others, and I had no problems adjusting and fitting in with so many different temperaments and personalities.

I've always attributed that to my 10 million Libra risings in all my charts, but this Huber Method throws a new log on the fire with both Sun and Mercury in the 7th in my Moon-Nodes Huber Chart.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm open to a "real" partnership with someone, but I know I can be quite happy without one now as well.  It's no longer a need like it was when I was in my 20's.

And there's so much regarding the Huber Method that I haven't yet discussed, lol...

Thanks again Stacy, for sharing...

 :)

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 12, 2018, 09:44:30 AM
Hi James & Stacey,  Nice work on Stacey's analysis James.   I am going to post the charts all on one page so that it is easy to see them side by side.....Stacey's 3 charts and James's 3 charts.   Unfortunate that Astrodienst doesn't give this choice.
Remember to shrink the screen to 75% so that all 3 are visible without scrolling.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 12, 2018, 12:10:30 PM
Thank you Halina.  The Moon-Node Huber chart looks right, but for some reason your program is giving me a Taurus Ascendant for both my radix and Houses Chart, which is incorrect.  It should be a Libra rising for both...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 12, 2018, 12:36:44 PM
Hi James, I'm using a birthtime of 11:35:49am for you is this correct?   Will go over your 3 charts.   Meanwhile that lady is back who gives me goose bumps when she analyzes charts in Huber fashion....Wanda Smit is the Noel Tyl of Huber...so don't miss her deep analysis, person has an "eye" shape which you talked about a while back... so HONE your skill by reading an expert analysis here.....https://astrologicalpsychology.org/bruce-chatwins-songline/
   James, I found your rectified time of 11:37:49 pm which gives the correct charts....go back to the original post where I have
deleted the original 3 Hubers and substituted the correct 3.
   Stacy you might want to see how Chatwin's Ascendant 19Scorpio32 plays out....read the analysis.
I have added below, Chatwin's 3 Huber charts to help you follow the analysis.    Shrink screen to 75%.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 12, 2018, 02:54:03 PM
Halina,

I am not familiar with Chatwin. Will have to Google him.

Is there a written analysis you were referring to for me to follow, were you referring to the attached charts?

Thanks for doing such lengthy interpretations, and you too James, on my charts and for presentations on your own.

Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 12, 2018, 03:10:31 PM
Hi Stace, in my post just above yours, click on the Chatwin link for his Huber analysis....I have provided his 3 charts as they are tiny in the article about this travel writer.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 12, 2018, 03:51:28 PM
Thank you Halina and Stacy...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 13, 2018, 01:53:46 AM
Tim, ever since you posted your Huber natal chart earlier in this thread, I've been thinking of ways to integrate both Noel's methodology, of which you are expertly versed in, with the Huber Methodology, and perhaps the easiest way to integrate them is via transits and solar arcs, which Noel emphasizes, and Age Progression, which the Huberists emphasize.

You've probably already picked up on this, but for those who yet haven't, the Huber Age Progression technique is very easy to understand and to utilize.

It assigns a certain age range of a person to a certain house of the horoscope.  Thus...

Age 0 to 6 is assigned to the 1st House
Age 6 to 12 the 2nd House
Age 12 to 18 the 3rd House
Age 18 to 24 the 4th House
Age 24 to 30 the 5th House
Age 30 to 36 the 6th House
Age 36 to 42 the 7th House
Age 42 to 48 the 8th House
Age 48 to 54 the 9th House
Age 54 to 60 the 10th House
Age 60 to 66 the 11th House
Age 66 to 72 the 12th House

At age 72 the 1st House gets activated again, so here we have age 72 to 78.  And so on.

Tim, probably within 5 seconds of looking at your Huber Natal Chart, one's eyes goes to that Pluto/Node-Mercury opposition (the long red-colored vertical line) you have right at the top of the chart, at the beginning of your 10th House (MC) and stretching down to near the 4th House (IC).

And since both Pluto and the North Node are at 6 degrees Virgo, and the MC or 10th House begins at 7 degrees Virgo, it is easy to see that right around the time you hit age 54, this Pluto/Node-Mercury opposition would come into play somehow in your life.  Most definitely within your psyche, if not also in some type of outer environmental external existence.

Using Noel's methodology, we also see that transiting Neptune at this time was also aspecting this configuration from the beginning of your 4th House.

So any Huber-versed astrologer would ask you what was going on in your life, both internally and externally, around that time. 

I hope this makes sense.

I believe that Noel's methodology and the Huber methodology can be utilized very fruitfully together...

 :)

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Antonio on January 13, 2018, 04:25:47 AM
I found it. My precious!

My lost Huber ring was buried in the middle-earth of a pile of books and papers, in my old room, at the family home. I remember that I was especially struck by its colorful and harmonious appearance... the stylized beauty of the zodiacal glyphs. I had contacted the Huber School in Spain, asking them for information about their courses. Great people! They sent me not only a brochure with curricular information, but also the Semester Bulletin Nº 5, Sept. 1993, along with my Radix Huber Chart, plus a complete listing of the Age Points!

I asked for this information back in 94, at which point I also felt a great longing for freedom. I did not enroll in the Huber Course, as I foresaw difficulties in writing in Spanish, although I can understand what I read. A little later, Sept. 94, I left everything and flew to the US, where I had the chance to develop my interest in Astrology.

Later, I've read what Noel Tyl wrote about how he met the Huber couple, praising their work, mostly recognized in Europe. This led me to buy the LifeClock book, which did little to stimulate my interest.

So, I have to thank James and Halina for giving me a quick glimpse over my Huber ring. Will I ever be ready to use its full power? Nah!  But, at least, I can now contemplate it with even more reverence! So precious that I'm afraid to break it!  ;D

As a token of appreciation, here's two legal links, where it is possible to download a free trial of two of the most used software for the Huber style charts:

Regulus Professional Platinum 8
http://regulus-professional-platinum.software.informer.com/

MegaStar 8
http://www.astro-megastar.com/loginanwender/0000009a6e0d3b303/index.html
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 13, 2018, 04:36:31 AM
Halina:

Just occurred to me, more of what the Feb. 15 eclipse cj my IC might suggest; will likely suggest given my current circumstances.  In addition to any authority figure issues, the flip side of the eclipse will no doubt light a fire under my relocation plans/desire (been on a waiting list for assisted living for almost 1 yr. now), and bring about this long-awaited change.

I resonate to the 6 mos. (on either side of an eclipse) for events to manifest rule of thumb. And, of course, the events themselves are not set in stone.  What is a sure thing, though, is with such tight conjunctions to such chart power points ----things will not remain the same, and that's a good thing!

Thanks again for all your help, James too, with Huber delineation~
Stacy                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 13, 2018, 07:36:04 AM
Hi Antonio, thanx for the links....but...I'm getting a warning from my Kaspersky anti-virus, that this program "MIGHT HARM MY COMPUTER" and recommended that I don't download....so to be on the safe side, have you, yourself downloaded any of these programmes?   which one?  did your computer start freezing up after the down load?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Antonio on January 13, 2018, 09:40:44 AM
Yes, Halina... I tested them. The links and software are 100% legit TRIAL versions (no piracy). If you go to the official website of Cathar software, for Regulus, at the end of the page you will see the link for "Software Informer". If you click it, it takes you to the software AstroCora, but that's not what you want. You may type "Regulus" in the search field or simply use the direct link i provided above.

Make sure you have an AdBlocker. Currently i use "UBlock Origin". This is only to avoid pop ups with advertising. Once you click the green box that says "trusted downloads", if a pop window appears,  just click 'No' and the download begins. Once the program is open, we better check if the selected House system is Koch.

Regarding the second link, for software Megastar, it is the official German site. No pop ups. In my case, i use Windows and i downloaded from the first link. Once you open the program, you may need to change the language to English.

Both software works with my windows 10 or less.

I looked at the charts you provided and I thought you already have the last version of the Regulus software. The pro 8 versions are all the same, regardless of the name you may find online.

If you or others find any problems with the downloads, i may upload the software to my google drive and let you folks download from there.

ps: Depending of the computer memory, processor, etc, it may take some time until the blue icon for the Regulus software appears. Better not click it before that, as it takes time to process before it starts to install, otherwise it may freeze.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Antonio on January 14, 2018, 02:31:02 AM
Louise Huber, born 10th May 1924, Bamberg, Germany. Died 13th January 2016, Salzbergen, Germany.

https://astrologicalpsychology.org/louise-huber-1924-2016/
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on January 14, 2018, 05:00:11 AM
Antonio,

So glad you were able to RING in the new year at the lost and found. And very much appreciate you sending along the obituary of Louise Huber. I'd not heard of her or her method until this thread began.

Thanks

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 14, 2018, 05:15:09 AM
Thank you Antonio!

 :)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 14, 2018, 05:23:15 AM
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Huber,_Bruno

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Huber,_Louise
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on January 14, 2018, 07:38:47 AM
James,

Thanks for the age progression table... honestly it didn't strike me as obvious right away, just like the Houses Chart of the Lunar Nodes spun me around a bit until I noticed the order of the signs from the 5th house holding the Moon seemed to revert and go backwards... LOL I was like "Wait! What?" LOLOL  ;D

My Natal Chart:

3 Red  4 Green 6 Blue

 
My Houses Chart:



4 Red 5 Green 7 Blue



At first I read this backwards. I was thinking that there was a diminishment in energy flows as I moved from the Natal to the Houses Chart. On balance, and the colors seems to maintain the coveted aim of being well balanced, there is a promising accretion of color. The shape alters slightly as well... this was bit more difficult for me to see but I quieted my mind and something did come at last... A Megaphone... it's upside down and pointing up the the upper left quadrant (SE) Hahaha... I must have something to say...

So, I really appreciate your nudge on this... The "Leap Frog". So intriguing. Your comment brought to mind a sort of playful aimlessness. Children finding life amusing and just having fun. Innocence. There is something so fundamental about frogs symbolically and the spirit totem suggests a type of arbitrator between realms. A foot in each perhaps. But in this physical world we are an endangered species. Its a sad tale that over 200 frog species have become extinct. Some scientist warn that the frog is just a canary in the coal mine in drag and that their disappearance is RINGING an alarm that few can hear.

I was part of a very small group of students who studied under the remarkable Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet. I studied with the group for 9 years. Interestingly, Noel once chided me for being part of the "cognoscenti." I thought this was hilarious because I've not made much about these studies to anyone anywhere ever. And I was in that group while at the same time working my way through Noel's course.  BUT your comment made me think of a nascent publishing company idea which I dubbed Acolt Communication. This is obviously a play on the word Occult, but moreso on the reverence I have for PNB. Much of her later work is centered around something called the Yoga of the Horse and out of respect for her and perhaps a growing humility in myself, I called my little idea acolt, or a colt. Not yet a horse. Just a little guy down here Earthside trying to fathom the far reaches of the nether world realm and the supramental. No ring required. But if I hear the phone I shall answer it...  ;)

So leap frogging ahead I considered that North Node...

Impact of Rahu and Ketu, by Krishan Rajesh Chaudhary and V.K. Choudhry).

"...Rahu eclipses the mental energy, creates strong negative tendencies, and gives an undesirable direction to one's life..." (p. 33).

"...the snake Rahu...seems to pour out its poison into the brain.  This can create mental aberrations...Such people need very strong control over their negative tendencies, impulses, and opinions" (p. 34).

"Rahu is the point of obsession in your horoscope which may be a point of...downfall" (p. 45).

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I've been able to acquire a Choudry book on Divisional Charts but this book was not available to ship on Amazon for some reason... I guess because it comes from India. How did you get it?

[Pardon: There is a slight Pilates intermission required at this point by invitation of my honey]

So what were we discussing...? ah yes, Rahu. Choudry scares the $hit out of me. Which is why I will attempt to understand him better. Nevertheless, the Hindu perspective seems to be decidedly kinder to Rahu and especially when in the 9th house, BUT although the ruler of 9 is just barely The Sun in my chart, which itself receives reasonable aspects, Venus and the Moon are not especially helpful and these have been challenging positions requiring much cultivation toward positive expression. My personal Yoga perhaps.   

The Vimshottari Dasa echos the Gnostic Circle in its cycle of 9. I see this expressed in Huber's age progression at the angles (4th house, 7th house and 10th house). That's a fascinating coincidence and meaningful across all approaches no doubt.

The 6 degree of Virgo suggest "A Merry-Go-Round" by Sabian symbolism and this being the degree of my natal North Node suggests a certain direction that is somewhat illuminating for me. PNB's first book was called the Magical Carousel. The lesson here perhaps is to go beyond Blaine Bovee's fine description of the native on the Wheel turning round and round but going nowhere. Patrizia's circumscription is altogether different. She picks up where Rudhyar leaves off in his book The Astrology of Personality. I think that the nodes can in fact provide a window into what Rudhyar calls our being and becoming, based in what PNB calls simultaneous time (the intersection of past present and future, the Nodes/Moon or Soul of the Earth as it relates to its Spirit, the Sun).

In Principles Noel is circumspect. He advises astrologer to translate the symbolism into human terms that are more meaningful than a "knot" or "dragon's head." The synthetic mathematics combine in synergy with his humanistic approach in a formidable way. He says on page 211 "If we follow the maternal symbolism of the Moon and the symbolism of conjoining as the Moon's orbit crosses the ecliptic of the Sun (the paternal symbolism), we come closer to the human metaphor." In Volume IV Noel again articulates eloquently about the intersection of the Moon's orbit with the apparent path of the Sun. These points must be important as they relate the "lights," or the "parents" to each other, the Earth and the native. We could go on in that the feminine is contained in the male as expressed in the symbol of the Sun itself by the dot or bindu. Which when I think about it reinforces Noel's observation of associating the Nodal axis to the Mother, mother, mom, "the ol lady," babushka etc.

Back to Huber, I do find is fascinating that the 6th in my Houses Chart  holds the Sun. 6 degrees of Pisces in my natal chart echos this placement with the image "officers on dress parade" conjuring up the idea of law and order, police perhaps, or civic duty of some sort.

Although I want to keep running around this playground and am ready for the bounce tent, never tiring of slapping the backs of my playmates and having mine congratulated in the process, I have $hit to do today and my honey is now beckoning for something besides Pilates.

Peace out all my Formite Friends...


HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 14, 2018, 08:13:49 AM
"Choudry scares the $hit out of me. Which is why I will attempt to understand him better."

LOL.  For some reason(s), I like this, lol.  I'm sensing that he was very scorpionic, but he's a bit too black or white for me in some of his methodology.  I'm much more black and white...more integrative, more tolerant of differences.

David Hawthorne in Iowa carries most if not all of Choudhry's books.  Here's his website...

https://astroview.com/#

Thank you again for sharing so much with us.  One of the main reasons that the leapfrog came to me was because of all the semi-sextiles you have at the bottom of your chart...they connect very nicely, one after the other...leaping from one to the next...

I will give you--and others--the same kind of nudge that Halina gave me...please don't wait another 25 years before you start learning the Huber Method.  That's all she needed to say to me, and that's all I'm going to say to everyone here...

Thank you again Tim, for so much to consider and reflect on...

 :)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 14, 2018, 09:15:12 AM
FYI Tim, in your natal chart you have what the Hubers termed two Ear/Eye aspect patterns, along with two Small Learning Triangles...I believe we've already mentioned the Ear/Eye pattern above somewhere...

Very nice! :)

"Large/Medium/Small Learning Triangles are concerned with learning specific skills in specific areas of life. The area that they span in the chart will be the area of life where the learning will take place and be applied (see Chapter 8).  The precise nature of the learning involved will be shown by the pinning planets. As a general guideline, the colour of the longest aspect will show which part of the learning process is the most important. A person who has a Small Learning Triangle where the red aspect is longest will actively participate in the “doing” of the learning; one who has the green aspect longest will be learning for learning’s sake – it will be all-important that they actually learn something. And one who has the blue aspect as the longest one will enjoy the completion of the learning task.  As with the Dominant Learning Triangle, direct and retrograde sequence of the order of the aspect colours applies, perhaps offering insights into why some people can grasp the learning of specific skills much faster than others."

Llewellyn, Richard. The Cosmic Egg Timer in Colour: Introducing Astrological Psychology (Kindle Locations 1255-1266). HopeWell. Kindle Edition.

 
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Antonio on January 14, 2018, 10:08:49 AM
"The catch with this method, the catch with all invented methods, is that one must first accept it as appropriate to our individual circumstance. The 20th century invented a great many of these systems, some better than others. Acceptance of the method, belief in the method (whatever it is), helps us to organize our lives. It helps us to explain ourselves to ourselves, it gives us "something" to hang on to in hard times.

Which makes the Huber Method, along with virtually all psychological constructs (such as those of Freud, Jung, Adler, Chomsky, Fromm, Kinsey, Leary, Skinner, etc., including astro-psychology itself), neo-religious belief systems. There is no escaping this.

Astrology - the real stuff - is not a belief system, but rather, a language system. It is both external to us, as well as internal in us, it describes in as much detail as we care to examine, it tells us what we chose to let it, it changes according to our own ability to discover and use it. Which is precisely what we may say of language itself. Like all language systems, astrology itself is neutral. It is neither "spiritual" nor "materialistic", not "modern" nor "old fashioned". It simply is." David R. Roell

http://www.astroamerica.com/huber.html

"Dave ran the Astrology Center of America, an ambitiously-named online astrological bookstore [...] Dave was an astrologer’s astrologer, which is to say he knew his stuff AND that of almost everyone who’s ever written about it.  He was a lover of arcane astro-lore, and he had opinions on all of it—expressed weekly in the newsletter he began in 2007—crossing swords in words as witty as they were wise (and sometimes downright cranky). [...] Dave died on July 29th, 2014, of a heart attack."

http://www.arielharpernave.ca/zeitgeist-hotel---a-blog/-rip-david-r-roell-one-year-later

"For those who would like to see his birth chart, his data is 10 February 1952, 12:32 p.m. CST (6 hr), Winfield, Kansas, USA"
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 14, 2018, 12:01:48 PM
Thanks Antonio,

But I could barely read the first couple of paragraphs, as obviously whoever wrote this is extremely biased against the Huber Method. 

It would be nice to see a pro-Huber Method commentary to balance out this contrary one-sided view...

 ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 14, 2018, 12:13:55 PM
Much of what he or she is saying is just plain false.  Very sad to read such garbage.

His own words..."All the Huber books have a dual by-line: Bruno and his wife, Louise. Reading the books (okay, okay, skimming them), they feel as if they were written by Bruno alone."

Hell, s/he didn't even do a good job of skimming them.  It's like someone skimming through all the books of Noel Tyl, and saying that they were irrelevant.  People should not skim through another's lifetime of work and then trash it and falsify it based on their skimming.  Please don't put his or her garbage on my threads again.

And as I mentioned above, someone named NOEL TYL wrote the Foreward way back when to one of the Huber's eight books.

Enough said.

So who are you going to believe?

 ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Antonio on January 15, 2018, 08:21:25 AM
"And as I mentioned above, someone named NOEL TYL wrote the Foreward way back when to one of the Huber's eight books."

Thank you James,

Noel must have written the foreword* in thousands of books, especially those of authors from the same publisher as his. He has always been a great promoter of other astrologers because as he says "without astrologers there is no Astrology".

Still, Noel is a rare 'bird' of a different feather!

07:03 "There's an elegant simplicity that we avoid all too easily in our culture. It's a run around and do it right with the rule books and in all of this there has to be something fundamental, direct, manageable, understandable, simple. That's the road I'd like to take. That's the road I like to help other people take. In a sense, I'm a salesperson. I'm selling truth. It's not an arrogant sense of truth - it's a reflective sense of truth."

TYL unfiltered: A revealing conversation with Astrologer Noel Tyl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ0nZLEk5XA

I remember something he said a long time ago, although I won't quote him verbatim:
"There are people who can see patterns in the polished chrome of a Cadillac."

By the way, this is the radix Huber chart of Noel Tyl, with a splash pattern.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2exlwdg.jpg)

* "If a newer edition of an older book is published, it can also include respects by a well acclaimed author of today. The easiest way to remember is that foreword is usually written by another author that may be a more established author in the same field or someone who wishes to pay respect [courtesy] to the author. Foreword is also often used as a marketing technique by publishers that promote a new book and author by having a famous person write good things about the book."
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on January 15, 2018, 08:35:19 AM
James,

Thanks for that add on...

Antonio,

Also appreciate your reference... AND James your response.

Astrology - the real stuff - is not a belief system....

Good topic... great discussion...

David Roell has a stinging delivery BUT made me laugh.

I think most astrology is diminished by our need to "believe" just as most religion depends on it.

Peace brothers or I'll send you each to your rooms.  ;)

And all the rest,

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 15, 2018, 08:54:07 AM
Antonio, where are you going with this?....maybe we should all go back in history and believe like all the scientists that the world is really FLAT not round.   Thank God we have pioneers like the Hubers that refuse to believe that the world is still FLAT....thank God for astrology pioneers like Tyl and Hubers who gave us timing devices to help us understand the world and our own lives.
     Maybe you should spend some time testing your own events with the Huber system and their theories before you start dumping reference urls that prove nothing.....obviously you have just "skimmed the surface" of Huber astrology.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Antonio on January 15, 2018, 09:28:28 AM
Obviously, Halina, you have just "skimmed the surface" of Huber astrology.
Where's your Diploma?!  ;D :-*

Diploma in Astrological Psychology
http://astrologicalpsychology.org/wp-content/uploads/prospectus.pdf

"For the Diploma Course, when we acknowledge your initial enrolment we will send you a form to complete, requesting your own birth data and the birth data of someone you know well and on whose chart you will be working as part of your studies. Whilst awaiting the return of this information we are able to confirm the name of the tutor who will be working with you during the course. The teaching material you have requested will normally be forwarded to you within two working days of receiving your birth data."

Enrolment:
https://astrologicalpsychology.org/study/enrolment/
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 15, 2018, 09:42:04 AM
Hi Antonio, O.K. my qualifications.
  1. University graduate majoring in Sciences & Psychology.
  2. High School Teaching certificate.
  3. Engineering degree.
I have all the Huber books so find that spending more money on
a course would not be necessary as I have tested my own and
relatives chart profusely and found their method answers many
additional questions I had that other traditional astrology
wasn't able to answer.  They also combine Psychology with Astrology.
    Do you mind if I ask you your qualifications for criticizing the Huber
method?   Analogy: Antonio & I enter a shoe store...we see the same
pair of shoes....Antonio tries them on and says their too tight and painful
...I try them on and they fit perfectly...I buy them.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Antonio on January 15, 2018, 09:58:17 AM
Do you mind if I ask you your qualifications for criticizing the Huber method.

I'm not criticizing the method, although I do not like astrology schools that look more like a franchise!
My qualifications? I'm a RX machine with a fine BS (Belief System) meter!!!!

Am I grounded?  :'( ;D

ps: Hope you guys have downloaded the software trials... Better do a test drive before commitment.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on January 15, 2018, 10:15:30 AM
 Changizi et al. (2006) and Changizi (2009) contend that trichromatic vision evolved to enable primates, including humans, to detect subtle changes in blood flow beneath the skin that carry important information about the emotional state of the conspecific. Increased red can convey anger, embarrassment, or sexual arousal, whereas increased bluish or greenish tint can convey illness or poor physiological condition. Thus, visual sensitivity to these color modulations facilitates various forms of social interaction. [from the NBI website]

I think Huber's approach is pretty fascinating, especially if it is true that he was a "Jesuit trained simpleton." I love the Jesuits, and probably love the simpletons most.

I really don't 'believe' Antonio was taking shots at anyone.

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 15, 2018, 10:16:51 AM
Hi Antonio,  I added an analogy in my previous post.   P.S. I own 2 of the Huber astrology programs,
Astrocora and Regulus...have experimented with them for 3 months already.  Excellent!
Thank you for the free links which I am sure I will use whenever my laptops crash and I will need to add your freebees for Astrocora and Regulus.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 15, 2018, 10:29:29 AM
Hi HVA/Tim, yes Jesuits are good for developing "SYSTEMS".....here's another Jesuit named Don Richard Riso who developed "Personality Types: Using the ENNEAGRAM for Self-Discovery".
He was a Jesuit for 13 years and has a Master's Degree in Social Psychology from Stanford University.
     His "Types" include the following:  1. The Reformer  2. The Helper(western chart orientation)
3. The Status Seeker  4. The Artist  5. The Thinker 6. The Loyalist  7. The Generalist  8. The Leader
9. The Peacemaker
    He gives a quiz so that you can determine your type.   He doesn't use Astrology but I see there are
other books/authors out there that match his types with certain chart patterns/quadrants/signs.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on January 15, 2018, 11:29:58 AM
Thanks Halina...

Gurjief use the enneagram which informed is view of astrology. In fact PNB's Gnostic Circle is the integration of the enneagram and the zodiac.

Never heard of Riso but will check him out... I think the Jesuit's practice a certain kind of Catholicism that feels less dead, less focused on the crucifixion than other denominations and more on life and living. It feels more like a "living" religion to me. Hinduism is supposed to express similar attitudes and supposed Gurdjief (sp?) brought the enneagram back from somewhere in India. So, Riso may be an unwitting astrologer.

HVA/Tim

P.S. https://ridgely.org/ (https://ridgely.org/) The Ridgley Estate is where Vivekenanda once taught his students. Around the corner from this estate is the Enneagram Institute founded by Riso in Stone Ridge NY. This is a stone's throw from me and a bit further down the line is Dharma Drum founded by Shang Yen... it's kind of crazy. There are more but the Hudson Valley has an incredible diversity of faiths, approaches and institutes of all sorts. PNB wrote her first book in Accord, which is just next store to Stone Ridge. 
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: amymaddalozzo on January 15, 2018, 01:20:45 PM
All I can say is that I recently ordered my Huber chart and when I get it, Halina and Company can give me some insight   AMY
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 15, 2018, 01:23:10 PM
Thanx Amy, glad to help when you get your Huber chart.....do we have permission to post your 3 Huber charts for discussion?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 15, 2018, 03:00:37 PM
Tim, now when does the youngest brother send his two older brothers to their rooms?!

LOL

 ;D

It just saddens me that some will believe that his "review" of the Huber material is accurate.  It is not accurate.  It would have helped if he had done more than just skim through the material.  At least he was honest enough to admit that.

As the one and only official book reviewer of the Noel Tyl Website, appointed by Noel himself, I know how much work goes into a quality book review.  And what goes into a quality book review.

This one by Roel or whoever should not have even been displayed.  But this is where we're at in society...truth doesn't matter anymore, just attack the other guy.  Tear down a person's lifetime body of quality work.  Falsify, falsify, falsify, and sensationalize.

Very sad.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: amymaddalozzo on January 15, 2018, 04:06:01 PM
yes Halina, you and James and whoever can post by huber charts   AMY
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Antonio on January 15, 2018, 10:44:37 PM
James,

You better check your firewall and review your Whitelisting!  ;D

"Almost unique among astrologers, K.N. Rao has spawned a school of earnest, skilled astrologers, a number of whom have written excellent books under his guidance. Rao will pick a student & challenge - or assign - him to write a book on a topic chosen by Rao himself. Rao's pairing of student to subject is carefully thought out: A diplomat for travel, an astrologer from the north to write about techniques native to his area, an artillery man for profession, etc. Other books are independent, inspired productions, often the result of class research. However they came to be, every one of these books is excellent in its own right." David Roell, (1952-2014)

http://www.astroamerica.com/v-rao1a.html
http://www.astroamerica.com/v-rao.html
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 16, 2018, 01:40:16 AM
It's nice to know he doesn't skim on every book review, Antonio.  Still he was quite belligerent and just downright wrong to post what he posted regarding the Hubers lifetime work.  If he had done that review correctly, he would have seen things differently; he would have been much more objective and rational rather than being irrationally subjective and just plain false in his statements.  The Hubers deserve much better than that.  And shame on that website for even posting such crap.

OK, let's move back to the main theme of this thread.

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Antonio on January 16, 2018, 02:14:07 AM
Please proceed at full speed, James
... after this brief vindication moment:

The strange case of the Astrology Centre of America, by Barry Hopewell
https://astrologicalpsychology.org/the-strange-case-of-the-astrology-centre-of-america/
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on January 16, 2018, 03:12:41 AM
Antonio,

If we were part of the "Mob Squad" I think you would play the character "Linc".

Nice Link... there was never a need for vindication from over here, but I get what James was saying. Roell was simply throwing hand-grenades into a dinner party. But why?

May we ought to resurrect his chart and call an Huber to take us all to a better venue.

My knee jerk reaction is that Roell was not so much inclined to attack other approaches due to any fault in their methodology or efficacy. My sense is that he was a curmudgeon, on the attack because he was somehow dissatisfied and defensive about his own life's work. So he was steeped in a certain rigid and inflexible poise much the way fundamentalists are shaped to become sectarian to one degree or another.

I for one appreciate bringing these voices out into the open. James your reaction too was helpful because I have to agree that Roell was off base and off putting. Ant you are a Big dude for holding your composure and sense of Huber, eh hem, humor throughout.

Let's Roell people...

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: pdw on January 16, 2018, 04:59:16 AM
Though Roell is no longer with us, after reading one of his reviews I got curious about his birth date and tracked it down -

David Roell, b. February 10, 1952 (Aquarius Sun-Leo Moon; Sun opposed Pluto) 

I've browsed Roell's critiques and received his newsletter, over the years, and appreciated his style - direct, knowledgeable, opinionated. Obviously a standout mental power, he seemed totally devoted to astrology and expressing his independent-minded commentary about it. He was sharp (Scorpio Mars square Aquarius Mercury); sometimes witty, sometimes controversial, always interesting, i.e., a stimulated and stimulating mind.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 16, 2018, 05:44:23 AM
Alright people,

if you want to talk about Roel, start another thread.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 16, 2018, 05:50:10 AM
Alright Amy, here's your Huber Natal Chart...  :)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 16, 2018, 06:02:12 AM
Amy, you mentioned that your husband made his transition when you were 46.  Off the top of my head, if my calculation is fairly correct, your Huber Age Progression at that time would be around 6 degrees Leo, in which case it would be closely conjunct Venus, ruler of your 10th House, and square Mars, ruler of your 4th House.  It would also be sextile your MC.

Perhaps Halina could focus in more clearly on this...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 16, 2018, 06:41:00 AM
Hi James, Amy, HVA, Antonio and others following this thread....it's 9:40am EST and I am gathering charts, aspect figures, and Life Progression tables for Amy which I will shortly post.    Amy is a very good example as she has given data for about 7 other family members.   Thank you again Amy for volunteering in this study.   First, here is Amy's Age Progression wheel with Highs and Lows and her age shown around the wheel.   The Age Point takes 6 years to travel thru' each House.    Smaller Houses such as the one with Pisces & Virgo will cause the Age Pt to move slower with much activity in these Houses    Larger Houses will be traversed much quicker.    So the Age Pt takes 6 years to move 30 degrees or 5 degrees per year, or 25 minutes per month or 50 seconds per day.
     Currently Amy's Age Point is in the 12th House as shown by the crosshair circle in that House.   The majority of planets are on the "I" side of the chart and vertical.   Coloring shows 4 red, 4 Blue and 2 Green so she alternates between restless activity and blue rest periods.
     Secondly, here are Amy's Aspect Figures below, an Arena Figure. Amy is active and energetic in the red part of the figure, imaginative and sensitive in the blue/green corner.   Her task is to find the middle ground in between.   Amy please step in and verify how you are active sometimes and imaginative and sensitive at other times.   Her Arena Figure contains an all red Achievement Triangle and I believe this has helped her achieve success in her career..  Amy please confirm.
The Achievement Figure finds release in the apex Moon, suggesting a "Caring-type career or person.   Amy please confirm.    Her Arena also contains a Dominant Learning Triangle, Node-Sun-Moon and runs anticlockwise therefore is Direct meaning the learning process is much faster.   If it ran clockwise it would be retrograde suggesting a slow learner which Amy is NOT.   Amy please confirm re your education  and career.   Since she has a Dominant Learning Triangle, she is
a lifelong learner, always asking questions on the Tyl forum.    James, step in any time.
      Amy has an Ambivalence Triangle, Sun-Moon-Jupiter.   Any triangular figure is Mutable, adapting to change as needed.  The Red aspect in it relates to work while the Blue aspects provide opportunities to relax.   Amy confirm.   The apex release planet is the Moon, so Amy relaxes by doing something Moon-related, Amy please confirm.  The ambivalence in this figure comes from its work/rest cycle of behavior, when in work mode the person will want to be relaxing, and visa-versa.
     Amy has a large Talent triangle or all blue Grand Trine, Mars-Jupiter-Uranus....mutable movivation, fluid and adaptable.  The inherent talent may be related to
the Signs these planets are in, namely, Cancer-Pisces-Scorpio, water signs.   AMy please confirm talent or career that is water-based.  This talent is already developed and in place.   Since Amy doesn't have to work at it, the downside is that she may not bother to use this talent or it simply may be lost for lack of expression.
     Amy has a Medium Learning Triangle, retrograde, Venus-Uranus-Mars.    This triangle spans the 8th House and since retrograde it takes her longer to learn topics suggested by the 8th House or she needs to repeat things here to catch on. Amy frequently asks questions re death.  The blue line is the longest in this triangle.   Meaning the completion of the learning task will give the greatest satisfaction in this area of life.
     I'm taking a break now to allow Amy and James to chime in.   Tons of insight to follow.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: amymaddalozzo on January 16, 2018, 07:57:35 AM
BOY, lots of information to take in!   The moon being a fixture of relaxation-moon is in Sag-I like to travel.   I will respond  more after I take in all this data.   Thanks  AMY
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 16, 2018, 07:59:24 AM
Hi, back again, below is a table we will use for  Age Point  aspects to Amy's natal planets, aspect structures, ingresses into signs, high and low points in life, whether the Age Point is in a Cardinal, Fixed or Mutable area, cuspal stress areas.   So as you can see we do NOT SKIM OVER SUCH DETAIL!
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: amymaddalozzo on January 16, 2018, 08:05:14 AM
Okay  I thought about some of these things:  Successful career-I did okay but I would not call myself succesfull  Actually had 2 careers:  social worker, and then I went back to school, got my MBA and worked as a medicare auditor for nursing homes and hospitals.   I then had to quit working to take care of my husband.    Husband died when I was 47    I think I am sensitive   I do ask about death a lot because I have 3 people close to me who died young.  I also realized that under  slightly different circumstances, I could have died soon after birth   AMY
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 16, 2018, 08:11:15 AM
O.K any skeptics still remaining, listen up...Amy's husband died when Amy was 47.....now look at the chart showing Amy's Age Point at Age 47, what do you see?
AGE POINT CONJUNCT PLUTO!!!  The death indicator planet....Age Point in 8th House, death events......are you starting to believe in Huber astrology.
     Amy your C1 is at 6Aquarius30 in your 2nd House opposite natal Venus in the 8lth House.   The Age Point dial hit C1 on April 11, 1960.
                    C2 is at 6Leo30 in your 8th House conj natal Venus in the 8th House.   The Age Point dial hit C2 on Oct 26, 1996.
C1 is considered a crisis point in your life which is resolved 36 years later when Age Point reaches C2.   Amy can you recall any crisis events around those dates....use an tight orb of 165 days on either side of the date, i.e 5 and a half months before or after the date, or use a wider orb of 2 years before of after the dates.
      Age Point conj or opp your Venus activates your Medium Learning Triangle, Venus-Uranus-Pluto, retrograde, which spans your 8th House, where you have difficulty undefstanding something to do with your 8th House and Venus here.
           
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 16, 2018, 08:40:23 AM
Thank you very much Halina, for getting us back on track here!

Halina, does your program have the MNAP...the Moon Node Age Point?

Joyce Hopewell mentions it under "Age Progression in the Moon Node Chart" in her book, The Living Birth Chart, but she doesn't give a very clear example chart.

If you find that in your software, would you please let us know what Amy's Moon Node Age Point was when she was 46?

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 16, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
     Can do James, see her MoonNodeAgeProgression chart below and put your finger on 46 for aspects made by AP and Aspect Figures activated.
Also I am giving you a Table of MN AP aspects.   How's that???   Remember a tight orb for dates is 165 days or about 5 months either side of a date or for
a looser orb use 2 years either side of the aspect/date you are examining.   Look at Age 46, I notice C2 is activated along with a bunch of other 8th House aspects.
     Also at age 46 in the MN Age Progression, Age Point conjuncts Venus, in 8th, and Venus rules 11th House of the relationship axis, love received, and also the 6th House of Health, concerning Amy's partner's health.   Venus, is a significator for the partner.    Maybe James will spot something more.    See you'all tomorrow morning.

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: amymaddalozzo on January 16, 2018, 01:59:59 PM
Good work Halina!   As far as April, 1960, my paternal grandparents died at the end of 1959   Grandmother in November, 1959.  She was like a second mother to me, as we lived above her until I was about 4 years old.  AMY
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 16, 2018, 03:39:36 PM
Yes, thank you Halina, you caught them all!  If the Huber Method has merit, it would have to account for the transition of Amy's husband when she was 46.  And it certainly does.

Amy, the C2 that Halina is referring to only happens once in a person's lifetime, if they live long enough.  You would have had C1 36 years earlier than C2...the program probably lists it....yes, December 1960, so let's say from the last half of 1960 to the first half of 1961. 

And similarly for C2...from the last half of 1996 to the first half of 1997...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 16, 2018, 03:53:51 PM
Halina, could you show Amy's Age Point Crossing Point Horoscope, and her Dynamic Counting Tables?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 17, 2018, 05:37:40 AM
Can do James, please explain what you mean by Counting tables, thanx.   Thanx for your input on C1 and C2 James.   Let's solidify first the meaning of C1 and C2 with an analogy.   Amy, think of 2 runners on a circular race track....one runner starts running counterclockwise while the second runner goes clockwise around the track...eventually they will meet or cross paths, lets call this Crossing one or C1....they keep running ...will they meet or cross again?   Yes, they cross a second time, lets call  this Crossing two or C2.
      Now with this analogy in your memory, lets return to your two chart...first your natal chart where the signs start at Asc Sag and go COUNTERCLOCKWISE....Sag, Cap, Aqu et.    However in your Moon Node chart the signs go the other way, i.e. CLOCKWISE, from your Asc Sag......so when the Age Point going counterclockwise in one chart and clockwise in the other chart.....will the 2 Age Points ever cross paths....YES, recall the 2 runners.    So here again  we end up with two crossings, C1 and C2 with a similar THEME, the death of someone.
     C1 and C2 are crossing points and could be considered CRISIS POINTS in one's life journey.    Below I show the Crossing Points in yiour natal and in your Node chart.....they are similar since the Age Point in both charts end up at the same place or coordinates.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 17, 2018, 06:10:49 AM
Hi Halina, yes, the one with the elements-temperament, crosses-motivation, and the tabulated plus-minus scores for each category.  Thank you.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 17, 2018, 06:47:34 AM
Hi James, I think you mean this one.....I'll let you explain it.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 17, 2018, 07:32:08 AM
Yes, Halina, that's the one, thank you.  Will take a look at it later more closely, and present some of Bruno Huber's viewpoints on it...
Title: Re: The Huber Method and secondary progressions
Post by: amymaddalozzo on January 17, 2018, 08:01:15 AM
James and Halina  This is really interesting  I realized a long time ago that my natal venus was "a death marker" in my chart.
For example, my dad died when SP sun was sextile natal venus-transiting saturnand neptune were both making squares  to the MC.
Paternal grandmother died in early November, 1959 when transiting neptune was starting to square natal venus and conjunct natal mars.
Husband died when SP venus was exact (with several days) of a conjunct to my MC.
Next question:   Next year, there is a transit of Rahu in venus conjunct my natal venus, but transiting mars in aquarius moves back and forth, aspecting ranu and my natal venus.  I hate to sound negative, but does this mean more deaths? 
I have several long term secondary progressions in my chart that I have wondered about.
For example, SP jupiter has been sextile natal moon for several years and will be the rest of my life,.
SP jupiter is making a 150 angle to SP saturn and will for a number of years.
In a few years, SP saturn will be square natal moon.  Aside from Huber, anyone have any thoughts on these? thanks AMY
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 17, 2018, 08:37:48 AM
OK, this Dynamic Calculations Table offers more proof that the Huber Method is extremely accurate and revealing...

I refer the reader to pages 53 to 59 in the book entitled, Astrology and the Spiritual Path, by Bruno and Louise Huber, for more examples relating to the following...

Notice Amy's plus and minus scores from the table above.  We combine -15 in the fixed cross (in the difference column) with -11 in the water temperament.  This gives us the fixed water sign, Scorpio.  And Scorpio corresponds to the 8th House.  Thus, the 8th House in Amy's chart turns out to be a "minus" house.

Also, on combining +18 in the cardinal cross (in the difference column) with +20 in the air temperament, we get the cardinal air sign, Libra, which corresponds to the 7th House; therefore, the 7th House is a "plus" house.

"Generally speaking, most people are strongly influenced by the plus houses, and have learned to function in that area of life.  In the minus houses...We do not have much idea of what goes on in this area of life..." (p. 55).

With the passage of the Age Point through the 7th House, which has a high plus value for Amy, 7th House problems will be keenly felt between age 36 to 42.  "Possibly we shall live in a state of uncertainty, or find ourselves under continual pressure from the circumstances of life with no apparent means of relief...A high plus number always indicates an ability to stand stress" (p. 55).

For Amy, the 8th House is a minus house, and when the Age Point passes through it from age 42 to 48, "life will probably become rather uncertain...When the Age Point passes through a minus house, we feel rather insecure and helpless; needing know-how..." (p. 56).

There's much more in this section, but this gives enough of the technique and what to look for...

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 17, 2018, 09:55:19 AM
Thanks for the feedback Amy & James will print last 2 posts for later reading.
James....THINGS ARE REALLY GOING TO HEAT UP AND GO NUCLEAR ON THIS TOPIC....LIKE HUGE GOLDEN NUGGETS OF INSIGHT IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS.   In preparation for this I suggest you read pgs 14 to 36 in Hubers book "Transformation".
      We will be discussing Amy's Radix-Dynamic Quadrants.....below is a sample of Amy's Dynamic Quadrants showing how Empty Spaces in her chart show what she lacks and how occupied quadrants show strengths in certain qualities.....oodles of goodies coming up.
      Along the left we have Ind, meaning Independent; You= is there a planet in the You sector;  what planet strengths does
she have in the Collective quadrant, that helps/hinders certain attributes.
      I still have to read pgs 14 to 36 myself to grasp all this.....simply NUCLEAR!  Many examples on these pages for helping in interpreting Amy's strengths/weaknesses.   I see he uses a scoring system to show strength/weakness.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 17, 2018, 10:01:54 AM
Thanks Halina.  Have ordered Transformation, but it hasn't arrived yet.  Will read those pages as soon as it arrives.  Halina, if it's OK with Stacy, I'd like to see and comment on her Dynamic Calculations Table as well...

Stacy, is this OK with you?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 17, 2018, 10:10:13 AM
Sure James; not sure what this is exactly, but happy to participate.

Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 17, 2018, 10:12:21 AM
James, I'm gone to a movie, so here's Stacey's....if she says no I will remove it when I get home.   Oh, I see Stacey agrees ...
really contributing to learning here.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 17, 2018, 10:17:37 AM
James, I'm gone to a movie, so here's Stacey's....if she says no I will remove it when I get home.   Oh, I see Stacey agrees ...
really contributing to learning here.

I, too, will be gone for the day but am eager to find out what this means! James and Halina, your generosity in sharing your knowledge is much appreciated :).
Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 17, 2018, 12:11:27 PM
OK, thanks Stacy and Halina, let's proceed...

Will not repeat the methodology mentioned above, but here's Stacy's breakdown...

Combining -65 of the fixed cross with the -9's of both the fire and air temperaments, we get fixed fire Leo and fixed air Aquarius, which corresponds to the 5th and 11th Houses, respectively.  So the 5th and 11th Houses are minus houses.

And combining the +38 of the mutable cross and the +18 earth temperament, we get mutable earth Virgo, which corresponds to the 6th House.  So the 6th House is a plus house.

Thus, again, generally speaking, "most people are strongly influenced by the plus houses, and have learned to function in that area of life" (p. 55).

And with the passage of the Age Point through the 6th House, 6th House problems "will be keenly felt between ages 30 and 36...[but]...a high plus number [such as we have here] always indicates an ability to stand stress" (p. 55).

The 5th House for Stacy is a minus house, and when the Age Progression passed through it from age 24 to 30, "life will probably become rather uncertain...When the Age Point passes through a minus house, we feel rather insecure and helpless, needing know-how, needing to grasp that we have a freedom we can use...Interestingly enough, a house with minus numbers offers room to maneuver.  To combat a feeling of helplessness, we can take ourselves in hand...we are relatively free to be ourselves; that is to say, we can live in the spirit of the sign [i.e., Leo for Stacy] occupying the inherited disposition" (p. 56). 

OK sista Stacy, you got the floor here...

 ;D

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: amymaddalozzo on January 17, 2018, 01:01:19 PM
Halina  I noticed in the row labeled "independent" i have 7 planets.  I was told a number of years ago ago by Basil Fearrington that my horoscope had self-sufficient written all over it.   I am a very independent person. What is the column that just has the negative sign written on the left.  that seems to be the area where I have just one planet-the moon   THanks  AMY
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 17, 2018, 04:39:42 PM
Hi Amy I will be working some examples tomorrow as I have to read a couple of pages......probably if you have a negative it means you are weak in that attribute unless your partner's chart or a friend who sees you a lot drops that strong attribute from their chart into that slot in your chart.   
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 17, 2018, 04:50:37 PM
Thanks James, I'm glad somebody explained those pluses and minuses and you did just that.   I also remember reading that if you have minuses in one house your partner spouse who is positive in that attribute can drop their pluses into one's empty House.    Sort of like doing a composite chart of two people.
This idea comes up later in that "Transformation" book on pgs 36 to 41 titled "Partnership Comparison".   BUt first lets understand "The Dynamic Quadrants" for a single person.
Title: Re: The Huber Method/Dynamic Quadrants
Post by: Halina on January 17, 2018, 05:26:59 PM
       Title: Technique For Determining Sequence Of Behavior
Below see first diagram of the 4 Dynamic Quadrants...1st Quad "I", 2nd Quad "Collective", 3rd Quad "You", 4th "Individual".
"Think first then act then enjoy the finished product"....THOUGHT ENERGY FORM i.e. Mutable then Cardinal then Fixed.
I'm not going deep into the theory(read the book later), I will work a couple of examples enabling you to catch on.
     EXAMPLE 1: Dynamic Quadrants, female, 1/12/1950...17:36....Zurich, Switzerland
Below are her natal and her Dynamic Quadrants.   There can be empty spaces in any area of a behavioral sequence.  In Example 1 below they are in the first 2 zones DOUBT & CRITICISM and IDEA FORMATION.  This woman has trouble reacting
properly; she lacks the tools because there are no planets positioned there.   Feelings of deficiency, incapability and insecurity may take their place.
     How does she cope with it?  Firstly, it is important to know that there is no shame in having empty areas in the dynamic quadrants---it is quite normal.  For this purpose most people seekk a partner who can fill out the vacant areas with his or her
planets.  In that there is a balance, a completion.  But first she must understand that and be prepared to accept it as a fact of
life.
     Here the diagram of the dynamic quadrants help her to recognise the empty spaces and do something positive about it.  She is less familiar personally with the subjects which are attributed to the empty spaces, they are brought to her  by the
environment.   There are therefore times when she is disengaged and waits for an external impetus.
     If, for example, the term DOUBT & CRITICISM is foreign, because she has no planets there, then she does not respond to it.  Criticism or reproaches cannot set the sequence in motion.  Or sometimes she may sit fast without any drive (she is just in
an empty phase).  Then if someone comes along and makes the reproach "You just can't sit around here like this!  You must do
something!", she will have feelings of guilt, defend herself or block it out at first.   Sometimes such prods are necessary to move someone forward.
     A person who has none of the 9 zones vacant can generally master all phases of existence.   Don't forget to scroll table to the right...there's more there.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 17, 2018, 06:11:35 PM
      Now go back to Amy's Dynamic Quadrants....do you see any planets in the first 2 areas?    Amy please give us an understanding of your first 2 phases, i.e. Doubt & Criticism, if I criticized you how would you react?   I see you have Venus here....would you respond cordially(Venus)?    Next what about the 2nd phase, after I told you to clean your room, ....how's your IDEA FORMATION?  I see you have Sun and Jupiter here.   Would this mean you are a self starter and don't need prodding and would immediately create ideas on how to make your room look nice?   Or would you sulk and tell me off?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 17, 2018, 06:21:37 PM
Yes, I know, you want me to look at Stacey's Dynamic Quadrants....you naughty people.   Hmmm, Stacey's first two categories are empty....do you need prodding Stace?   Or do we forumites stimulate her to action?   Wonder what would happen if we criticized her?   Maybe Stace can fill us in.   Don't forget to scroll Amy's and Stacey's Dynamic Quad Tables to the right or you'll miss what is there.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 17, 2018, 08:52:52 PM
So you can see that Halina and I have moved away from Joyce Hopewell's first impression technique, to get more into the meat of the Huber Method...and there's still so much of it we haven't yet mentioned...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 17, 2018, 09:20:03 PM
I should also mention that the Hubers mention two rules when reading the Dynamic Calculations Table...

1) Plus is only combined with plus, and minus only with minus

2) Only the highest numbers are combined; those less than 5 can be ignored

You can now go back to my analysis of Amy's and Stacy's tables to see why I chose those numbers....
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 17, 2018, 09:50:30 PM
Since I was educated and trained as a counselor, the main reason I am so jazzed by the Hubers body of work is that it gives me many more specific areas and times of a client's life on which to focus.  It therefore gives me much more of an opportunity to walk in their shoes, so to speak.

However, I must say that my astrological consulting approach has changed fairly drastically these last 30 years.  I no longer just put in 40 to 60 minutes with a client, and then collect my paycheck.

My recent discoveries in Jyotisha--and now with the Huber Method--have convinced me that I have enough astrological material to cover way more than just one 40-60 minute session.  And I am fine with that.  Other astrology consultants will not be, and that's fine as well.

But I prefer an ongoing dialogue with clients, since life is ongoing.  For some astrologers, they prefer one and done.  But that's neither my bias, nor my style...

It will be interesting to see how astrological consulting takes shape during the second half of this century, with much more astrological knowledge being made available to them during that time frame...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 18, 2018, 07:05:02 AM
Hi James, since you know your own chart and life experience better than anyone.....I wondered if you would mind commenting on your "Dynamic Quadrants" table.   We have so far discussed the first 2 columns(there are 9).
For initiating an activity, let's look at your "THINKING" sector.   You have Venus in the DOUBT OR CRITICISM SECTOR/HESITATING/YOU and you have Mars in the IDEA FORMING/INDEPENDENT sector.
    Please read Example 1 in post above to get an idea of what is shown in these first two categories also read what Amy has in these two sectors and the analysis of it.   Stacey has an empty space in both categories so would be similar to the lady in Example 1.   We are trying to determine your "Sequence of Behavior" when you start a new project or when you react to someone's question.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 18, 2018, 08:22:28 AM
I see I have lots of homework, James & Halina!
Need to go back to bed atm. Feels like I may have the flu...
Will respond within a few days.

Thanks you two
Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 18, 2018, 10:08:01 AM
Hi Halina, I'm going to take the day off today, so I'll look at the Tables first thing tomorrow!
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 18, 2018, 10:11:17 AM
Thanks Stacy, get well soon.
                                             EXAMPLE 2: Markus, Empty Creative Zone
Markus has an empty space in CREATIVE PROCESS.   His father had hammered it into him that he could not stand on his own
feet and forced him to help with gardening work.   He tried diligently by every means to carry out the work in a satisfactory way, but to no avail.  Unforeseen impediments always got in his way and he reaped reproaches, mockery, and dericision.
he was very unfortunate with it.
     Only when he knew that he had no planets in the area of CREATIVE PROCESS could he come to  terms with this fact.  He has his planets in the first zone, he is a researcher and thinker and really must not work physically at all.  When he realized this he was greatly relieved and things were much better for him. 
     That sounds fairly banal, but try it for yourself.   
James has Sun in 4(4th House) in Collective quadrant.
     For CREATIVE URGE, Stacey has Jupiter in the Individual 10th House under "offensive".    Also Moon in 4th, the Collective, under "immediate."  Stacey was quite creative with jewelry.   
     Amy has no planets under the CREATIVE URGE column
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 19, 2018, 01:10:42 AM
Thanks Halina, for all the superb explanations and examples here...

Regarding my Venus and hesitancy...very true, as just this past week I've been wrestling back and forth as to whether or not I should meet up with some of my "tribe" during this weekend...very agonizing process...

Halina, I'm curious about what the Hubers have to say regarding "efficient maniac" for my Sun placement in the 4th House in the Energy category...the only place I can remember being called an efficient maniac, energy-wise, was in the bedroom, lol, but that's a whole other story, lol.

Hopefully that book will arrive here soon...am eager to look through that section more closely...

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 19, 2018, 07:36:24 AM
Halina---

Strange to me that 10th house and Jupiter, etc. suggests creativity, but I guess this is in Huber-speak (not traditional astrology) so it's all different? BTW, I started sketching, painting and writing poetry at a very young age and even won awards as early as kindergarten. By high school I was receiving recognition for essays and written homework assignments, but I would say that is my 3rd house sq Neptune contribution. Wish I stuck with it but family was not supportive at all, in fact, discouraged my budding talent. And then a few years ago after SP Venus entered my N 5th I started with the jewelry-making.

Very nice of you to put together all of these analysis's for us :).  With Mercury Rx I need to re-read material a few times for it to make sense. (and thanx for good wishes; having a few different medical crises, atm).

Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 19, 2018, 07:55:23 AM
Stacey, yes that Jupiter could well refer to your creative Writing skills.
James, yes, "Maniac"....I posted that then erased it as not to be offensive....thanks for the belly laugh concerning the possibility "maniac" refers to your bedroom skills.   I will "skim"....oops there's that bad word again....I will diligently look for a possible explanation for maniac in this book.
      James, nothing re "Maniac" explained in the book.....but I see he does an intensive Huber analysis of Jiddu Krishnamurti, pgs 166 to 176 which you being into Vedic will probably enjoy.
      I'm sending an e-mail to the Huber association in England and they will interpret "maniac" under CREATIVE URGE for you.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 19, 2018, 10:19:26 AM
Thank you Halina...thought you might have a belly laugh or two, lol.  Remember, I have Venus in a kendra from the Moon, lol.  I will post more on this section of the book once my copy arrives via snail mail...
Title: Re: The Huber Method/Maniacal Energy
Post by: Halina on January 19, 2018, 11:17:58 AM
Hi James, upon further thought, I believe the dictionary is helpful here.
Maniacal defined: excessive enthusiasm or excitement; characterized by ungovernable excitement or frenzy : frantic ·a mania
 ·maniacal fans.
     So do you have sufficient energy in the CREATIVE URGE category?   Look in the ENERGY sector of your Dynamic Quadrant,
your Sun, your whole being falls under "efficient, maniacal".   This is certainly obvious in your character on the Tyl site, you attack astrology with "excessive enthusiasm or excitement, frenzy....you are a maniacal fan of astrology and very creative in presenting it.   You are a maniacal fan of astrology."
     Your creative, Sun, falls in the collective sector....you present astrology in a creative form to us forumites in the collective sector, unconscious in the 4th House, below the horizon....tapping into our unconscious to reveal creative truths via Tropical/Vedic/Huber astrology.
 
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 19, 2018, 11:25:14 AM
Creative urge...it would depend upon how the Hubers defined it.  Dictionary definitions are helpful, but if the Hubers defined them a bit differently, it would be nice to know specifically what they mean by all these terms.  I would say that efficient maniac is probably more accurate than creative urge.  But it's hard to say until those terms are understood from the Huber definitions...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 19, 2018, 11:27:49 AM
I see I also have Pluto-North Node on the Useful Thinking category, and Mars on the Idea-Forming category, so once that book arrives, I'll hopefully have a better understanding of all those terms...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 19, 2018, 11:41:52 AM
Hi James,  Vincent Van Gogh's Creative Category is interesting.....he cut off his ear.....so does this make him a "maniac" no he was categorized as "Efficient".....his Sun does not fall under "maniac"    See his Dynamic Quadrant graph below.
     However your Sun does fall under "Maniac"....so our definition of maniacal is correct.
 "excessive enthusiasm or excitement, frenzy....you are a maniacal fan of astrology and very creative in presenting it.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 19, 2018, 12:22:09 PM
Thank you Halina.  Am still not so sure about the creative part, all I do is present what I've learned from my teachers...although I do like being called a maniac, lol...and an efficient maniac is even better, lol...

 ;D

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 19, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
     Ha...Ha...Ha...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 20, 2018, 04:43:56 AM
James--So sorry! I just this second recalled you posted quite a lengthy analysis for me before I got sick several days ago and fully intended to reply.

You mention ages 24-30 as being critical, "uncertain" and they were!
Those years were the exact years when I purchased and owned my first property, my dream condo. I still miss it to this day, and it was in another town an hour from my family and friends so I felt quite isolated and homesick for a large portion of that time for the first "real" time on my own.

Apologies for overlooking your generous work; am still absorbing it and yours, too, Halina!

Sista Stacy  :)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 20, 2018, 05:04:29 AM
Thanks Stacy for filling in the blanks here!  We know you'll get around to it when you're feeling up to it, so no rush!
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 20, 2018, 08:06:39 AM
in the various analysis you did for me and others is this Low Point Progression delineated? Specifically I am trying to find my current/upcoming status.

thanks again,
Stace

Yes, it's delineated in the books by the Hubers and by Joyce Hopewell.  Hang on a sec, and let me look at a couple of things...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 20, 2018, 08:14:23 AM
Halina:

Not as spicy as James's boudoir talents...have you covered Low Age Progression and did I miss it (as mentioned in Karen C.'s analysis)? If not, is that part of this method?

Thanks,
Stace ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 20, 2018, 08:16:08 AM
OK, let's see if Stacy's chart that Halina already posted appears again...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 20, 2018, 08:19:22 AM
Stacy, it looks like your next Low Point arrives soon before you turn 58...it's that little dot near your 58th age marker....right above the virgo glyph
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 20, 2018, 08:24:44 AM
...looks like it's around 14-15 degrees Virgo...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 20, 2018, 08:34:22 AM
"The transit of the Age Point over the Low Point positions brings times of introspection, of turning inwards..." (p. 119 in LifeClock: The Huber Method of Timing in the Horoscope, by Bruno and Louise Huber).
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 20, 2018, 08:38:01 AM
"The effect of Age Point passage over the low point in a house begins about 8 months ahead of exactitude and can last 4 months afterwards" (ibid., p. 42).
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 20, 2018, 08:51:44 AM
Seriously?!  Am not in one now?

BTW, record-breaking amount of posts to your thread, I think!!

thanks
sista ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 20, 2018, 09:56:34 AM
Stacy, I knew you were going to say something like that, lol.  ;D

Go back to age 51-52, age 45-46 on your Huber chart on the previous page that Halina provided for you.  You'll see the corresponding low point dots for those houses as well.  Then you can follow the pattern and keep backtracking to the previous low point ages you've experienced.  That will give you a better clue as to what to expect for this upcoming 10th House Age Point Low Point...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 20, 2018, 12:12:33 PM
Next Lesson:  SEQUENCE OF PLANETS = SEQUENCE OF BEHAVIOR
you will need to look at the planet at the extreme right in your DYNAMIC QUAD TABLE, it's your starting planet, describes how you start any activity or thought...the planet at the extreme right is your completion planet, describing how you end things in that activity.
    Planets in between are individual stages which are not necessary for the process in question occasionally act as disturbance factors in the sequence of events, because they nevertheless compulsively want to switch on.
    BEGINNING, incentive & preparedness.....James, Amy, and Halina all have their Beginning planet as Venus so they start things in this way...."Sensitive to disturbance, aesthetic, selective".   In addition Halina has Venus conj Node as her starter...
Node gives..."Sense of opportunity, expectant, desire for group activity, beautiful charts from Venus."
    Stacey has Mars as her Beginning behavior in a sequence..."Stimulus to act and to movement, impatient, active."
    ENDING, of any sequence, evaluation and deployment.
Halina & Amy have Mars for the way they end the string or the sequence..."Feelings of strength, pride in achievement, new
preparedness.   James ends his sequence with Pluto..."Retrospective looking at the path, feeling of power, destroying in order to change."  Pluto rx looking also at the past(my words).   Stacey has Moon as her Ending...."Beautiful memories, hope for further experiences."
    Feel free to interpret your beginning and ending planet in your own interpretation.
Oh!   BTW the planet you started with is also at the end, ready to start a new cycle of behavioral sequence.
So if Amy, James and Halina had Venus at the beginning they will also have it at the end, along with their normal ending planet.    Stacey having Mars at the beginning will also have Mars at the end ready, impatient, and eager to start a new posting topic.   Hopefully we have awakened her consciousness, since many such Mars types are workaholics, prone to burn out.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 20, 2018, 01:13:11 PM
Example, Female:  A FULL SEQUENCE OF BEHAVIOR......refer to the Dynamic Quadrant table below.
    Starts with NEPTUNE, in area of DOUBT & CRITICISM.   Sensitive to criticism, not sure what' going on.  Unlovingless aroused.
It's also a spiritual planet, many need "Great Love".   Some begin with a meditation.
    Next MOON NODE in the are of "IDEA FORMATION", then JUPITER.   Planets on either side of Moon Node have potential for spiritual development.
This process runs into the area of WILL FORMATION to URANUS, which provides imetus/ideas to free faults, strengthening trust in oneself.
    Next comes VENUS in area of CREATIVE PROCESS.   She creates orderly surroundings and balance.
SATURN & PLUTO in this zone giving LONG TERM GOALS...Pluto as Vocation will give the highest goals and both give motivational forces.   Saturn will keep these
goals in practical perspective.    Before leaping over the empty CONSOLIDATION everything must be put in order.
    MERC, MOON, & SUN an accumulation of EGO planets in the UTILISATION zone.   The whole personality becomes involved, ego is strengthened on feeling and rational levels.   Moon conj Sun gives an immediate gain.    As soon as one comes to change things around one gets feedback from the environment. and the Moon needs that.
    Scroll to the right or shrink table 75% if too big.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 20, 2018, 01:57:13 PM
.....James, Amy, and Halina all have their Beginning planet as Venus so they start things in this way...."Sensitive to disturbance, aesthetic, selective".   James ends his sequence with Pluto..."Retrospective looking at the path, feeling of power, destroying in order to change."  Pluto rx looking also at the past (my words). 

Thank you again, Halina.

So true.

Can't wait for that book to arrive sometime next week!

 :)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 20, 2018, 03:56:53 PM
I have to say I would not have expected Venus as leading planet for some of you, and I would not have expected Mars as mine.  ???

Am, indeed, very impatient, etc. but Cap Mars cj Sat incj Uranus is a big factor.
Also thought my 3rd house stellium provided lots of my curious energy; restlessness  as the Gemini influence is very strong and Mercury is my most aspected planet per Astrodynes.

Additionally, with Sun-Ve and Pisces Decan of Asc. I tend to want to harmonize and get along initially, and then Scorpio Asc. and Mars kicks in.

This is new and confusing so I need to reread all the data you have both provided. Have so little free time lately, or at least for next 2 weeks; crazy incidents - literally such as with ex-caregiver in bank. Today the xray tech went ballistic so badly and in such blatant violation of the ADA that I feel compelled to file formal charges next week. Surreal. That's an example! I was nice, courteous, polite Venusian and Neptunian--until she acted outrageously, and then 'it was on'!

Definitely seeing the intensity for you James AND you Halina as far as the posting, and such. That's where I see it, of course, since I have no other arena for observing you both.

Ok, more lata from Sista ;).

PS:   My "consciousness" was raised many years ago as I was quite the workaholic for many years in all fields where I worked, and rewards/incentives (promotions, raises, praise) kept me going until I gradually grew spiritually and taught myself about priorities in life, etc...Additionally, medical limitations taught me about priorities in a BIG way as I literally couldn't and can't do everything I used to do--a hard adjustment (lots of Inconjunct energy in my chart) for a detail-oriented, compulsive worker. Every day - every hour I have to check my energy and pain levels and what remains to be done for the day and re-evaluate what can wait and what must be completed.  The Plutonian energy is very compulsive too, as we all know (notably Sun incj Pluto; and of course Mars-Sat incj Uranus-Mc most significantly).

Incidentally, choosing one's battles: do I follow the 'warrior way' and let everything go...or do I fight for those who can't, as well as for myself when trampled, with the obvious activist energy in my chart? That's been a hard one for me. Always wrestling with decisions and then guilt if I feel I chose "wrong".

WHY would someone incarnate with my chart---and not ??? fight for the disenfranchised who cross my path??
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 20, 2018, 05:02:12 PM
Thanx Stacy, beautiful analysis, beautiful......there's my leading Venus again.
     X-rays, x-ray technicians are ruled by Uranus, Aquarius, (Pluto, Mars).    Your Age Point is conj Pluto 150* your Aquarius stellium in your 3rd of communication.
"Today the xray tech went ballistic so badly and in such blatant violation of the ADA that I feel compelled to file formal charges next week. Surreal. That's an example! I was nice, courteous, polite Venusian and Neptunian--until she acted outrageously, and then 'it was on".    Pluto is represented by the x-ray tech who connects to your Aquarian stellium in typical Uranian outburst style.   It would be nice to see the tech lady's "planet sequence", it would probably explain the reason for her outburst.   Outrages, the outrageous are ruled by Pluto, Uranus.....so there's your Age Point conj Pluto again.
     Your sequence was correct, polite......her's definitely wasn't.
Do you recall the time of the x-ray.....if you do, look up in Solar Fire, the Hour ruler for that time of day, Saturday.....I'll bet that hour was ruled by either Mars/Pluto or Mercury/Uranus.
     Since your Age Point is affecting your Pluto and Aquarius try not to schedule appointments during Mars/Pluto or Mercury/Uranus hours.   Also avoid contact with apartment neighbors during such hours.
      In your chart, you are represented by Sun, Merc, Venus, Jupiter, 3rd, which explains your polite behavior.....unfortunately that stellium is connected to Pluto and your current Age Point.....which explains everything.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 20, 2018, 07:24:25 PM
Hi Halina:

1st, I don't have SF software but it happened between 12:30 - 1:30 pm today but should have been finished in half that time.

Am I supposed to let it roll off my back --or perhaps there is a karmic lesson she is to learn from this after I contact the HIPPA/Civil Rights people Monday and file a complaint?  And good tips about when to avoid neighbors, etc.  My N 10th, with Pluto and Uranus, is more of an influence than I thought. Always always conflict with authority figures, government agencies, neighbors & siblings (3rd inconjuncts), etc. I resent the time this will take, but I suppose my pride and stubborn streak --regarding valid outrage over the treatment I received--is driving the car. Not sure what to do here, for once!  I have a history of intestine blockages, even had emergency surgery a few years ago, and I could die over this type of condition--and the tech refused to xray me after I politely said that was discrimination. Then she very stupidly said I was discriminating against her!!  Original.

Caregiver ad gpt a response last night and am interviewing the gal Tues.  My psychic-medium said I would find someone around this time, so will see how much of her prediction comes true ;). That's my 5th hse ruler (Neptune) in the 12th... love going to psychic/mediums...



Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 21, 2018, 04:42:19 AM
I have to say I would not have expected Venus as leading planet for some of you, and I would not have expected Mars as mine.  ???

Definitely seeing the intensity for you James AND you Halina as far as the posting, and such. That's where I see it, of course, since I have no other arena for observing you both.


INTENSITY...  ;D

What's that?!  ???

LOL.  ;D

That's why I said above that the Huber Method wonderfully complements other astrological approaches, and vice-versa...

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: amymaddalozzo on January 21, 2018, 07:35:26 AM
Interesting stuff, Halina, James and Stacey  Maybe I should order this huber book also    AMY
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 21, 2018, 08:49:17 AM
Stacey, between 12:30 and 1pm when you were in the x-ray room, it was a Moon Hour...Your Moon trines Uranus, the x-ray technician.....but then this Hour changes to a Saturn Hour at 1pm, and your Saturn, r3, in 3, conjuncts your Mars, and Mars is your ending sequence planet...you fought back....Mars rules your 6th House of Health, you were there for a stomach x-ray.
Moon hour tells why you were there....Moon rules the stomach trine Uranus, x-raying the stomach.
      Amy, I would start with an easier book, like "Cosmic Egg Timer" by Sue Hopewell....colorful illustrations and she explains things better than the Hubers.   Another good book of hers is "The Living Birth Chart" also in color whereas most Bruno & Louise Huber books are in black and white and not as simple as the 2 Hopewell books.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 21, 2018, 09:47:07 AM
That's amazing, Halina!
Though I still am in doubt and have mixed feelings about the purpose of this in the higher scheme of things--and what I am meant to do about it. Of course I want to file a formal complaint and have her held accountable to not only avenge myself, but to make sure she doesn't pull this on someone else who might not be able to fight back.

Maybe the planetary hours (Uranus, Saturn) hold the key to the proper response? Rebellion, honesty, authority, reprimand.

Thanks again!!
Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 21, 2018, 10:26:09 AM
At amazon you can preview Joyce Hopewell's books...

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/133-3685718-2711160?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=joyce+hopewell

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 22, 2018, 06:30:54 AM
Hi Stace, while you were at the X-ray lab, an IRRITATION TRIANGLE was forming by transiting planets to your natal chart....see biwheel below for 1pm, Jan 20, for your encounter with the raging technician.
     The x-ray tech, Pluto, by her outrage, triggered your IRRITATION TRIANGLE, made up of Moon-Mars-Siwa(rage), a volatile mixture if ever activated.....and it was.
     As you recall, your AGE POINT, currently is conjunct natal Pluto, explaining your continuous contact with Pluto types.
Your SEQUENCE OF BEHAVIOR for any event always ends with MOON, then restarts with MARS.    And this volatile combo join with SIWA(rage) in your IRRITATION TRIANGLE.....explaining your behavior with the lab tech.
     Hope this raises your conscious awareness in future interactions.    Of course it may not be your fault.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on January 22, 2018, 06:54:25 AM
I was in an IRRITATION TRIANGLE once... I DO NOT recommend it.

 ::)

Try a different angle asap Stace...

Very cool chart Halina...

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method/Relationship
Post by: Halina on January 22, 2018, 07:19:31 AM
 LESSON:  How might a relationship work out?  Good....bad.   Go to this site: www.astrologicalpsychology.org
Click on the relationship article and once there read it.
The article is titled: "Relationships and Click Horoscopes".    Oodles of insight.....see why your previous relationships did/did not work out.


Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 23, 2018, 07:08:40 PM
LESSON:  Your Stressed Planet(s).....See the diagram below....each House of your chart is divided into 3 parts.
     Here we have a female.   Stress planets easily develop a Helper Syndrome here as a COMPENSATION for the need to be
loved.   All her efforts are intended to gain popularity and love and she even demeans herself to remain in other people's good books.   She prefers to yield than to provoke others' anger.   She is afraid of being misunderstood or of the help she offers not
being accepted.  All too often she does things that she should not have done, or makes promises she cannot keep.
     Others are eagerly occupied with making amends for mistakes and righting unintentional wrongs.   They apologize in advance for possible failures or incompetence.   There is great insecurity and the constant failures, humiliations, insults or
suffering caused by the loss of love can also have a psychosomatic effect.
     THE TRANSFORMATION & REFINEMENT OF THE 6TH HOUSE involves taking on duties gladly, serving without looking for
reward.   Really selfless love & dedication to duty requires her to give spontaneously & without ulterior motive exactly what
is needed.   This BEHAVIOR will allow her to fit into the work stream of the COLLECTIVE and experience herself as a small
cog in a great machine and not to take herself so seriously.
     The AGE POINT activates any STRESS PLANET in its path.    She could look back when the AGE POINT made any of the following aspects to this stressed Venus: 0, 30, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180 to see her behavior then and to see if any aspect structures such as AMBIVALENT or IRRITATION TRIANGLES, etc were activated due to Venus being part of the structure.
     ADDENDUM:  I can't believe the amount of insight I have gained via the Huber System....and I've only touched the tip of
this iceberg.   If  you have a stressed planet and want to see an example person with such a Stressed Planet, I will gladly post an example.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 24, 2018, 12:57:27 AM
Thank you Halina, very instructive!

Halina, I've been struck with how, on the day that he "accidentally" died, Tom Petty's fractured hip had graduated to a full-on break.  Perhaps you could present us with the state of his natal Jupiter (hip)?

Attached is his Huber Natal Chart...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on January 24, 2018, 03:51:57 AM
Halina,

Yesterday I was sitting with a gentleman who has some 4,000 counseling session under his belt. He was regaling me with stories of meeting John Gottman, PH.D. I was bug eyed and loving it so thought the synchronicity that you putting up that link intriguing as I am in the midst of reading Gottman...

But that link didn't go any where... Do you still have the url to the article...?

Thanks

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 24, 2018, 06:01:19 PM
HVA, show me where this link is on this thread....i.e. date and time of posting thanx.....then I can look into it
By the way, a little earlier you asked me which House system do I prefer......with Huber there is no choice I
use their system, Koch, I believe as they say it works best with Huber charts.
     Personally, with other work, other than Huber, I use Placidus.
I think that link doesn't work 'cuz I put a "Period" where there shouldn't be a period.....here it is again, try now:
       www.astrologicalpsychology.org
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 24, 2018, 06:04:44 PM
James, do you want a verbal presentation of his hip, or do you want a chart presentation with suitable asteroids???  Let me know and I'll work on it Thursday morning.   Thanx.   Meanwhile here's a verbal expansion on his hip.....
""Despite this painful injury he insisted on keeping his commitment to his fans and he toured for 53 dates with a fractured hip and, as he did, it worsened to a more serious injury," their post says. The family said the fracture upgraded to a full-on break and they believe the pain "was simply unbearable" and the cause of his "overuse of medication."
     Or, James, do you want a Huber chart explanation of his hip fracture......it's either Huber or asteroids on a 90* wheel.....which do you want???
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 25, 2018, 12:01:27 AM
Hi Halina, if you could post a Huber chart of Petty showing how his natal Jupiter is in a low point area, I think that will back up some of the points you were making above about a person with a low point planet.  Please use the 5 PM birth time for him.  I see that someone came out last week and claims he was born at a different time, but I am highly skeptical of such accounts.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 25, 2018, 12:05:03 AM
Like the graph you showed above with the female with the stress planet (low point area)...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 25, 2018, 08:35:45 AM
      Petty's Jupiter, hip, is a stressed planet....the Huber wheel pinpoints EXACTLY at what time in his life he will suffer a problem with this hip.....just another example of the usefulness of the Huber Age wheel in predicting health issues.
See this remarakable wheel below pinpointing Petty's hip/pain/drug overdose/death, below.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 25, 2018, 09:01:37 AM
James, here are your planets which are in Stress Areas...Venus, kidneys, diabetes;  Saturn, bones, teeth, skin;  Jupiter, hips etc;  Uranus; Mars; look these 2 up.    Good news, your Sun, the heart, is not in a stress area.    Below is your Huber Age Wheel with age.    Pay particular attention when the Age point conjuncts or opposes your stressed planets and note any symptoms or take necessary remedial action.    Aren't you  glad you bought all those Huber books?
     Huber book "Astrolog II: Family, Relationship & Health" has a health & therapy section.
Pay attention to Stress planet Age Point aspects, eg Mars square Venus, 6th H, and what health issue this might signify.   Also Age Point aspects to Venus-Uranus by conj or opp.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 26, 2018, 01:28:02 AM
Thank you Halina, and yes, the Huber books I will definitely keep with me!
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 26, 2018, 09:26:53 AM
Halina,

Would it be too much trouble to tell me where my Huber stress points are so I can ck for accuracy? I have multiple, but this will be a good test (though not really necessary). No worries if you can't --or maybe point me in the direction. Like Kelly C. I am not a big Huber fan; not that it doesn't work (as with Vedic), but it's like we all have our favorite areas of astrology and frankly I prefer straight ol' black and white western delineations. It's what I have studied and feel most comfortable with. is all.

thanks,
Stace
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 26, 2018, 01:58:49 PM
HI Stace,  am out-of-town with I-pad only....so will post your stress planets tomorrow morning.
Or click on the number 5 which is page 5 of 14 pages.   Scroll down pg 5 where I posted your age progression chart.    Now which planets are between the low point in any House and the top of the wave or crest?     Answer: Sun, heart; Mercury, Venus, diabetes;  Jupiter, hips, liver; Neptune; Nodes, the lymph nodes.    So these stressed planets are affected when Age Point conjunction or opposes any of these planets.   Don't have reference books handy for Merc, Neptune, so can't look up ailments associated with them....you probably have reference material handy.
     When your Age Point conjuncts Pluto, which is not a stress planet, Pluto, however by aspect activates stressed Sun and stressed Venus, who trigger Neptune in 12th, by square.
     Your Age Point already passed your Node.....didn't you ask a question about your Lymph Nodes a while back or was that someone else?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 26, 2018, 05:34:46 PM
OK Halina, the Transformation book arrived today, and I just love how he explains those Dynamic Quadrants...

The only empty quadrant or area I have is the 9th one, Preservation. 

The subjects of the 9th area/quadrant he labels enjoying, defensive, and conservative.  "Activity is limited to the enjoyment, maintenance, and preservation of the creation--and its protection from the environment...Fears of loss are constant companions, and too often advisers, in daily events.  The enjoyment is often restrained by the effort of holding everything together and fending off the environment..." (pp. 24-25).

When I read this, I immediately thought of my "go-to" sutra from Patanjali's Yoga Sutras...

"To one of discrimination and discernment, everything--even great and ecstatic moments of pleasure-- is painful, due to...the anxiety and fear over losing what is or has been gained, the resulting residual impressions left in the mind to create renewed cravings, and the conflict among the activities of the three gunas, which control the mind. But that which can be avoided is future pain and sorrow."

Bingo.

Not surprisingly, my ex has two 9th area planets, so again the Hubers are correct...we tend to gravitate towards those who have planets in our empty areas...

So very accurate...



Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 26, 2018, 05:56:12 PM
Thanx for the example James, I'm going to reread that section.....glad your books are finally arriving.
When I was in my Ketu Mahadasha I was gravitating toward religious fundamentalists.
In Tropical astrology, my 9th House of Religion is empty.  In Vedic, Ketu is in my 9th House.
At the workplace, I was gravitating  to a coworker who had a stellium in their Tropical 9th House and was an expert in biblical matters.   
      Oops....I was out of town without the book, so now that I'm home and referring to Transformations book, I see that you mean
the last column, the 9th one in Dynamic Quadrants....easy to forget things when I'm halfway thru' the book.   Yes, the 9th column for my
Dynamic Quadrants ie empty.
     I'm wondering if we both have the same edition of Transformation as I cannot find your reference about the 9th Sector of Dynamic
Quadrants, pg 24, 25, in my 2008 edition, which is a translation by Hopewell publishing....would you mind checking your edition, thanx.
O.K. I found your quote, it starts out on page 23 in my edition.   "Fear of loss are constant companions, and too often advisors. in daily events."
That sounds like the religious advisor I talked about above, who had a stellium in the 9th House and probably a full 9th column in the
9th sector/column of Dynamic Quadrants.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 26, 2018, 09:18:01 PM
Ok, thank you Halina. Will do.

Yes, diabetes is a problem as I am already "pre-diabetic' (Venus-Jupiter, and square Asc.) and just a few days ago my doc. wanted me to repeat that pesky fasting blood test to see if status as changed due to symptoms I have been having.

Pluto (chart ruler) is inconjunct my Sun (vital forces) so that concurs.

I don't think the lymph nodes were my issue though with stage 4 Lymphedema my lymphatic system is severely compromised to where I am supposed to pump my lower legs an hour in AM and and hour in PM, and wear bulky velcro braces the rest of the time. I don't always do it because it's really a lot of work.

Thank you very much Halina; very generous of you as always--
Stace
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 26, 2018, 09:28:43 PM
James:

Was looking through some prior posts here and just caught your statement that you are highly Aquarian (I see that), but not seeing what in your N chart, anyway, indicates being "Scorpionic".    Your NN cj Pluto is where you are headed, so I don't think that's what you mean, eh?

Just curious--
Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 26, 2018, 09:38:43 PM
  Saturn the mother and Moon, you.    Your chart shows Saturn-Mars, representing the mother. 
Mars-Saturn, mother connects to Uranus, ruler 4th, mother....this aspect describes the mother.

And Halina, this didn't sink in the first time I read this post, but my mother has N Venus exactly opposite my N Mars-Saturn. I had always 'given' this aspect to my dad, but see now where it reflects my mother more.  I also have Saturn qd Nodal axis which Noel said is quite suggestive of my controlling mother and our relationship.--Stace

oops. Pardon color faux paux  ;D
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 27, 2018, 03:54:18 AM
On page 46 of Transformation: Astrology As A Spiritual Path, we see the following...

"Mars before a cardinal cusp, especially before the AC, makes people want to finish first at all costs...On all levels, Mars represents performance and achievement...in the emotional area, it symbolizes the ability to fight, to assert and defend oneself...Mars is always characterized by a release of energy, which becomes excessive in the stress area...he wants to win at all costs.  That is a compensation of Mars energy, which basically serves to glorify the ego (AC = ego point)."

Attached is the birth chart of Donald Trump.  Notice that natal Mars is in this stress area, right before the Ascendant.

Also extremely interesting is that on Tuesday, November 8, 2016, transiting Mars was at 29 degrees Capricorn, in the stress area right before his 6th House cusp of contending.

He was declared the winner right around the time that Mars entered into Aquarius.  And what does Aquarius symbolize?  Shock, upheaval, out with the old--in with the new, rebellion, revolt, unconventional, surprise.

 ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: amymaddalozzo on January 27, 2018, 06:51:08 AM
James and Halina:  Several Points:
Mars this year will be in capricorn and then aquarius moving back and forth, and aspecting the moon's nodes.  How will this aspect Trump--I think it will aspect his 12th house pluto?
The 9th house discussion is interesting because in my western chart, I have saturn, mercury, the moon's south node and sun is very close to the 9th house cusp.  My late husband had no planets in the 9th house BUT he had several 2rd  house planets and I have none.
9th house-fear of loss?  Boy that is true for me!  In my case, 3 people close to me died young, husband at 54, sister in law at 50 and one of my close friends died at 45.  I have many friends who are older than me and I always wonder who is going next--it does not help that one of mu cousins is seriously ill and could still die.   
Stacey: Look to my other post about marriage and the moon's nodes--saturn and moon nodes contacts between 2 people are hard!  AMY
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 27, 2018, 07:44:11 AM
James, excellent work on the Trump stressed Mars.....I understand him better now.
AMY, let's clear up the meaning of the 9th Dynamic Quadrant(I had to reread this myself).   First let's look at your 9th Phase of Behavioral Sequence....as you see, below, you end things with Mars and what does Mars represent in the title just above the Mars...it represents "THINKING".....so you always end thought/actions by "THINKING" about something.
     What do you think about?   Let's now go to your Natal chart...where is Mars?   It's in your 11th House of FRIENDS....so you always end your thoughts/actions by THINKING ABOUT YOUR FRIENDS.
     So to correct things, we do not use the  9th House to figure this out...it's all about your DYNAMIC QUAD PHASES showing how you end things in your behavior sequence.
     Now we go to Huber's "Transformations" book, page 23 titled "THE STATE OF PRESERVATION", which is located at the Balance Point to the Low Point of the Fixed House( your Mars is there, in Scorpio, a Fixed House, the 11th House of FRIENDS).
....and Huber says..."Fears of Loss are constant companions, and too often advisors, in daily events."
     Amy don't forget to scroll the graph completely to the right or shrink the graph if too big so it fits the whole page.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 27, 2018, 09:16:03 AM
James:

Was looking through some prior posts here and just caught your statement that you are highly Aquarian (I see that), but not seeing what in your N chart, anyway, indicates being "Scorpionic".    Your NN cj Pluto is where you are headed, so I don't think that's what you mean, eh?

Just curious--
Stacy

Yes, in my natal chart, Pluto aspects both Sun and Moon, and is part of one of my two Finger of God patterns.  Additionally, Neptune in the 1st is in Scorpio.

But even more revealing is that Pluto is right on my Ascendant in my Huber Nodes Chart.  It's what I've brought over from previous lifetimes, and I've had more than one psychic tell me that in previous lifetimes I deliberately misused my gifts and talents.  Quick story...

Back in 2007, a guy that is around 6 feet 5 inches, and over 300 pounds of muscle, was literally scared of me, and I'm only 5 feet 10 inches, and 195 pounds.  He told me that he had a vision of us in a previous lifetime where I was a wizard, and he was a warrior, and that I killed him with some kind of spell.  I can't express to you how much of an impact, and how much confirmation, that made on me.  Others can sense the Pluto/Scorpio energy when they enter my energy field.  But if you just see me from a distance, you'll pick up on the 50 million Libra risings I have, along with dispositor Venus in Pisces and Neptune in the 1st.

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 27, 2018, 09:30:59 AM
Always did like this line, for some reason, LOL... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHSxQ2RRD9o
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 27, 2018, 09:57:43 AM
Interesting, James.

Yes, more than your Aquarian Sun I definitely get your Libra Asc. (along with Moon); maybe if we met in person I would pick up the Plutonian energy. But as Noel always alludes to----'if the (astrological) shoe fits'...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 27, 2018, 09:59:04 AM
Additionally, and Halina mentioned this earlier on this thread, my last planet in the dynamic quadrants section is Pluto, and the Hubers defined that as, "feeling of power, destroying in order to change."

Although, if we use the Mean Nodes rather than the True Nodes, which the Hubers use, the North Node would be my last planet, and what they say with that also rings true..."Retrospective looking at the path, letting go and being open."

Title: Re: The Huber Method/CLICK CHART
Post by: Halina on January 29, 2018, 11:25:19 AM
      I am starting a new topic in this thread called "Click Charts".....a good background for this is the 26 page article which Antonio posted in this thread....thanx again Antonio.   Below is the CLICK CHART for a relationship between James and Stacey.    This chart shows how planets from one person's chart support the House in another's person's House.   Notice how the 3rd House in the Click chart is really bolstered here.   In Click charts, House conjunctions and House oppositions are considered to study the relationship.   Of the 3 Huber charts, Natal, Nodal and House.....we use both person's House chart here.
      Will post intrepations from their Click chart but first have to read some more on Click chart from Antonio's link.   Antonio's link to "Click" can be found in
MY MONTEBISHU thread by HVA or here....http://www.astrologicalpsychology.org/wp-content/uploads/Click_Horoscopes.pdf
If you want me to post your Click chart with someone else, just let me know.   Note, James' planets are in BLUE, while Stacey's planets in RED.
      ROLES....Saturn can show itself to other people in a negative mother role.   If there is an opposition CLICK to our partner then we can be sure that both parties
in this relationship are caught up in roles, which tend to distort the qualities of the planets involved.   Each opposition Click demands that we become aware of it.
     When we think of a SATURN/MOON OPPOSITION the partner who wants to be very caring indeed needs an opposite partner who will accept this overdose of
caring.   
     In the areas indicated by the conjunction Clicks(here 3rd House for example), we have the chance to become united again, to work together again.   If there
are a lot of conjunction Clicks it is advisable that each partner takes care to have some space available to themselves, into which each can easily withdraw to maintain a feeling of their own individuality.   This is especially apparent with clicks of the EGO planets, Sun(Will), Moon(feelings) or Saturn(Physical presence).
    I find this true in my own relationship with my spouse.....we have around 7 conjunction clicks, 1 opposition click.....and I just need my space alone at times.
For more interpretations the link above covers all the conjunction and opposition Clicks thoroughly....bringing us to conscious awareness of cooperation or role playing.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 29, 2018, 01:45:06 PM
     What if one of the 3 personality planets is not involved in a CLICK situation?   If it is the Sun, we don't feel affirmed in our thought, our aims, our plans, and
in our need to be ourselves and to express ourselves.   We don't feel recognized in our own essence.
     If it is the Moon, we feel that our feelings are not recognized and we feel isolated.   If it is Saturn, then we lack the feeling of security in the relationship, or find that our own boundaries are constantly being ignored.
     What we should do in a case like that is to go to the Moon Node chart, the Moon Node Click chart, to find out whether this particular planet(Sun, Moon, Saturn) is in a click position there.   If this is so then we are already bringing a lot of previous experience on this particular THEME into the relation, & it seems that it
is denied just in this particular lifetime.    Therefore is seems advisable not to try and re-run the previous experiences with other people in these particular areas.
This is what 'unclicking' planets invite us to do in the House chart comparison.
     Below the same House Click chart on the left, the couples present clicks, on the right the partner's Moon Nodal Click chart showing past life experience aspects they already worked on in the past and are familiar with in the present.    Look for conjunctions and oppositions.   Did they already work on their Moon Saturn opposition in a past life or is it still unresolved and needs further work in their present incarnation?   In the Moon Node chart conjunction clicks(Moon conj Saturn)
also represent a balance for the opposition clicks and represent harmony and points of understanding.    In the House as well as the Nodal charts, up to 4 conjunction clicks is OK for a partnership.   Make it easy to share and have a spontaneous understanding of each other.    In the Moon Nodal a conjunction click by planet and House we have a similar approach on an unconscious level.
     Notice the Jupiter/Moon click....one person's way of looking at life & gaining empathy, goodwill, meets empathy/goodwill in the other person.
QUESTION:  In the House Chart clicks, emphasis is along the 3/9 axis whereas in the past life Moon Nodal click chart emphasis was along the 1/7 axis, how would you interpret this difference......do you think that in the past they have already experienced relationships to the point that they are already experts in this area of life and now need to work  more on 3/9 themes?   What's your thoughts?   I've just touched the tip of the iceberg here.....if you want much more, make sure
you read the 26 page link above.....very illuminating....especially on the conjunction & oppositions you see here which I have barely touched on.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 29, 2018, 02:49:40 PM
Halina,

So far, unable to open the click chart for James and myself. Will try later. Does it look like a composite, or side-by-side inter-aspect comparison?

-Going to sign off and lay down for a bit. That SP Moon hitting my Asc. truly is instigating several conditions!...

thanks!
Stace
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 29, 2018, 02:57:54 PM
      It's not a composite chart,.....James's 3rd House planets are placed together with your 3rd House planets.....the Signs do not match....it's just what Houses contain planets....his 3rd House planets placed into your 3rd House planets.....his Easter eggs(collected from his 3rd House) with your Easter eggs, collected from your 3rd House.....all into one basket, a common 3rd House basket....making a "CLICK".
     In the Moon Node click chart, it shows what lessons we have already learned.....this is shown by the conjunctions and opposition aspects.   You & James 'click' regarding 3rd House matters/themes, in your House Click chart mainly because of many planets coming together when both wheels are rotated so that your 3rd Houses are over top of each other...regardless whether the Signs match or do not match.
Title: Re: The Huber Method/Bridge Click Chart
Post by: Halina on January 29, 2018, 05:16:10 PM
     The Bridge Click Chart: Comparison Between The House Chart & Nodal Chart
     Previously, we discussed chart comparisons via the Natal Charts and via the Moon Node charts.  But we can also work on
a third level with a comparison 'tween the House Chart of one partner and the Nodal chart of the other---and the other way around.   
     Here the conjunctions & oppositions symbolize a bridge between two different levels of personality.   This means a path which crosses the borders between
the levels at which people function.   That's why we call them 'Bridge' clicks.
                         Below in chart A, we compare James's House chart(blue) to Stacey's Nodal chart(red).
                         in chart B, we compare Stacey's House chart(red) to James's Nodal chart(blue).
     We look for the possibilities offered by the conscious insight of one partner into the unconscious motivation in the shadow personality of the other, and vice versa.   The person with the House chart planets is the one who offers the help.   He has the chance to initiate the awareness process for himself & for the other.
     Where in the chart does a conscious part of my own personality meet the unconscious shadow personality of my partner?   And where in my deeper unconscious being am I touched by the conscious being of my partner?   Which ghosts do I awake in her and which ghosts does she awaken in me?   Which  hitherto unconscious areas do I activate in the other person with my planetary positions...and the other way around?
     Review from earlier post:  Opposition clicks always indicate a certain amount of dependency & the suppression of areas of interaction.   Because the Moon Node planet is always working from the shadow it is especially difficult to cope with in the opposition.   And we find it difficult to come to terms with it.
The natal planet on the other end of the opposition, is experienced by the Nodal person as being quite a threat.   It evokes unconscious anxiety because one
seems to question rather drastically the Moon Node planet and its direction.   The greater the unconscious anxiety the greater the resistance and the more
difficult it is to find access to the underlying potential.
     In chart A, House Saturn opposes/activates Shadow Node, in the partner.   In chart B, House Moon of one opposes/activates shadow Node chart's Saturn in the partner.   "At the same time, of course the two roles fit together like hand and glove, or like bread & butter.   They need each other for mutual expression
and they are dependent on each other in their content, their context and their intensity."
     Any comment on the axes activated, i.e. 1/7, 2/8, 3/9, 4/10?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 29, 2018, 07:28:49 PM
Halina---Geeze, nearly all the House axis's are involved!

Just a qwik message that I may be going to urgent care or ER in morn. due to possible bowel obstruction again (have had 4 so far resulting in 1 emergency surgery a few years ago. due to long-term narcotics (RX) usage) and have 2 doc. apps already, so if I don't respond for 1-2 days, you will know why. But I appreciate yet another delineation!!

Stace
Title: Re: The Huber Method/Karmic Oppositions
Post by: Halina on January 30, 2018, 01:55:18 PM
      If a planet is placed in a Bridge opposition click, it means that it is in Karmic opposition to the other one.   Then the theme of the relationship is unconscious resistance and this is the key theme for the development of both partners.   
     See Bridge chart below for James(blue)House planets/Stace(Red)Node planets.   If we find a conscious Neptune(James) in a Bridge click chart, in opposition to a shadow Mars(Stace), the unconscious resistance of the shadow Mars find Mars-specific
forms of expression.   Where Mars is concerned attack is considered to be the best form of defence(recall Stace vs x-ray tech and her sequence of behavior-ending Mars).   Because of that the Neptune partner, James, has to learn to deal with the aggressive undercurrents of his partner, Stace, and perhaps frequent and quite irrational temper tantrums, sarcasm, cynicism, and so on.
     The Moon Node Mars is perhaps amazed that the Neptune partner gets under her skin to such an extent and creates such an irrational fury in her which he just can't understand.
     This provides great obstacles for the House person to practice Neptune qualities of selfless and unconditional acceptance and understanding of his partner's behavior.
     Clicks in the form of oppositions symbolize a bridge 'tween the past and the future 'cuz they activate parts of our shadow-nature.   The partner who has the planet in the natal House horoscope in this area constitutes the one who shows the way.
On the other hand he feels challenged by the partner with the Moon Node chart to come to terms with her own shadow nature and those parts of his shadow nature which require further work.    Which means that he may have to descend yet again into the depths of his nature.
     SUMMARY: the comparison of partnership charts on the level of the Moon Node chart mirrors our Karmic past with its own theme of parnerships, our mutual wealth of experiences and the relationship of our two shadow personalities(his & hers).
      The comparison on the level from the Moon Node chart to the House chart symbolizes the possibilities to form bridges between the past & the present, between shadow and consciousness.   It shows the way to use and to transform our unconscious potential for the resolution of conflict for creative translating of the potential within the present relationship.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 30, 2018, 06:05:07 PM
Oh Halina, been gone all day dealing with wounds on both legs and now I have casts on both!  Have to return every few days to have them replaced, so on top of my other doc. apps I will be gone every day but Sunday. Will have to read when I am alert (in a few days!) and let it sink in, but I didn't know you were going to do such a workup. I appreciate the thought and effort.  Friday is payday and bill-paying day, along with a dozen errands, so this week is "gone".  Just don't want you thinking I didn't notice.

Hmm, James--what do you think of the comparison ?  ;)

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 30, 2018, 06:19:19 PM
Hmm, James--what do you think of the comparison ?  ;)

Will have to wait until the book arrives to evaluate...but I do understand irrational furies, lol.  Hmmm...Sounds like the name of a band...and not Richie Furay's band...

 ;D
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 01:24:17 AM
For those who may be interested in integrating some of the Huber Method in with Noel's methodology, perhaps the best place to start would be with the Hubers book, Aspect Pattern Astrology.  It contains detailed descriptions of over 45 different aspect patterns, which are easy to understand and to integrate.  I'll give an example.

Attached below are my most prominent aspect patterns.  Notice the one which they call Striving.

The frame aspect "indicates a great receptivity to environmental stimuli.  The Eye provides intuitive interpersonal skills...and the information obtained by the Eye can be assimilated and used for long-term objectives...The small Eye watches from a distance and nothing escapes it that could be of interest for its project.  The long triangle provides the tenacity to reach objectives or to find the root or crux of the desired truth.  The long green aspects facilitate thinking.  Such people possess the special ability to get to the heart of complex matters and to face facts...The inner urge to get to the bottom of everything is better pursued when they are alone...

In people with a Striving figure, just one single fact is enough from which to build a great theory...His natural talent is to react to information, knowledge, and truths like a teacher who seems to have a better knowledge of many things...There is no doubting his flexibility, for he bounces back again and again to have another go...The green dominance leaves him open on all sides, and he gathers knowledge even if it cannot be utilized...Just visible, but much needed, is the small pleasure aspect that makes this person open to spontaneous contact" (from pages 209-212).

I would have loved to have had this information way before my current age of 57, LOL.

I trust you can see how this can be combined within Noel's methodology...

 ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on January 31, 2018, 04:39:57 AM
It seems that one of Sylvia Wenk's favorite expressions is "this means that" and even an occasional "that means that..." There are 5 instances of the former and 1 instance of the latter.

Perhaps a picayune picture I've drawn from an otherwise fascinating treatment, but whenever that sort of language is used my reading slows to a crawl, and I find it difficult to comprehend what is being communicated. Something is off and I know it. My ears perk up, I look at the sentence structure the way Wenk looks at charts. She see the space between (which reminds me of a great song and some pretty awesome lyrics) them.

The space between
Where you smile and hide
Is where you'll find me if I get to go
The space between
The bullets in our firefight
Is where I'll be hiding waiting for you
The space between
What's wrong and right

Is where you'll find me hiding waiting for you
The space between your heart and mind
Is the space we'll fill with time
The space between
The tears we cry is the laughter keeps us coming back for more
                                                                                                                                                          Dave Matthews

Sylvia talks about solving the "inexplicable" and relating the Nodal Chart to the Natal Chart (and vice verse) in what she calls the "Bridge Chart" so as to capture lost or hidden information as the "KEY" to solving the mystery of relationships (life?).  "If we start from the proposition that clicks between the House and Node charts give the key to our development within a relationship, and point the way along our evolutionary path, then the Moon Node chart shows the unconscious potential for the solution of actual conflict." p19 She has taken us off a cliff with her,  ;D in a leap of faith that not only can we acknowledge our Karma but that we can identify it emphatically and put wings on our past lives in the present. So her proposition is presumptuous at best, and a bit of a parlor trick at worst by a somewhat clumsy use of psychological concepts under the shade of Jung. I did in fairness find her "explicating" on those terms about projection quite helpful, but at the end found the entire presentation incoherent and grasping at straws. The "inexplicable" was never clearly explained except by way of conjecture. Where this reader trips up is with the Nodal Chart. I could do without this extension of the Huber Method. Just my sense about it, but their natal approach AND even Sylvia's Click charts from what little exposure we've had here are probably worth exploring. The extension and transformation of the chart into a Moon Node Chart to then discuss unconscious territory while holding a certain amount of allure, might be more harmful than helpful in the wrong hands, you know? I mean who among us is really qualified to discuss this stuff? The process wreaks of psychism which is increasingly targeted by civil authorities. Google Sally Ann Johnson, who exploited an elderly woman living on Martha's Vineyard suffering from Alzheimer's and bilked her out of $3.5 million dollars. Even if we might demonstrate the efficacy of the Moon Node Chart, I think its use makes an astrologer vulnerable to this type of criticism even if we charge a mere $350. It's probably also irresponsible, even if we sincerely believe ourselves to be psychic. In other words I don't think this direction helps serve the greater astrological effort nor raise its stature, but keeps it suppressed in a world of superstition. Overall, I think the unconscious, "shadow personality" presentation and its connection to past lives is a slippery slope that ought to be approached with extreme caution. My sense here is of someone appropriating an authoritative poise by manipulating the chart and speculating out of some compensatory need for power and control over others.   

Gottman says from his research that 67% of all mothers feel a plummeting sense of satisfaction in their marriages after their first child is born, while only 33% develop the sense of well being and fulfillment. The space between is filled not by a missing symbol, or an imagined astrological structure. We close down the spaces between us through deepening and signifying that space in discussion. Listening. Understanding. "So often when a husband and wife talk to each other about their ... needs, their conversations are like this - indirect, imprecise, inconclusive. Frequently both partners are in a hurry to end the discussion, hopeful that they will miraculously understand each other's desires without much talk. They rarely say things..." that need saying. "The problem is that the less clear you are about what you want, the less likely you are to get it... But when communication is fraught with tension, then frustration and hurt feelings too often result."  The space between is filled by shared meaning and "we-ness" with symbols as our guides not as absolute authority. We have been born into an era where the emergence of the individual is preeminent and I think that is what sets Noel's astrology apart... Noel reveres astrology BUT he reveres the human being even more; our God given human potential, we might say is the ruler of every chart.

HVA 
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 31, 2018, 07:11:13 AM
Thanx for the critique HVA, you seem to take the approach "Noel astrology is better than Huber astrology".....I like to pick the good from each smorgesborg offering.    Wondering if you have taken any University courses re psychology and the shadow concept of well known psychologists like Jung or Freud or do you consider them to be quacks.
      Notice how time after time, James says yes this Huber technique fits my own situation remarkably.    You belittle Huber astrology as some type of quackery whereas Noel himself has praised the Hubers in his introductory preface in their books.
      I myself have found both Noel's and Huber methods useful in my own experiences.    The Hubers should be lauded for their years of research and bringing astrology into a more scientific reality by combining it with psychology which is more believable to the common man who treats astrology as quackery.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 07:17:21 AM
Thanks Tim, for the valid "warnings."

I don't know who Sylvia Wenk is--it appears she is a Huber practitioner? 

If one want to know or become familiar with the Huber material, as Halina and I have repeatedly mentioned, check out the material by Joyce Hopewell and by the Hubers themselves.  Then go off onto the side trails to see how others have incorporated the basics of the methodology...

There are a lot of Wenk-ers out there, so many flood my mind in regards to just Jyotisha alone.  It would be like me trying to understand the methodology of K.N. Rao by looking at what P.V.R. Narasimha Rao has written regarding K.N.'s work.  I'm not going to get much from it.  Gotta go to K.N. Rao first.  Then look to see how others roelle. 

 ;)







Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 07:22:06 AM
Once that book arrives, I will check out more thoroughly the methodology that Halina has gone to great lengths to present us with, and then I'll present that click thing in regards to my nearly 20 year marriage with my ex...

But it will be based off of what Bruno and/or Louise Huber have written regarding the subject...

 ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 31, 2018, 07:25:34 AM
Super, James, re you will be presenting you and your wife relationship using the House/Node Click methods.   I'm quite sure this presentation will validate this Huber method once and for all and dismiss any accusations that it is quackery.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 07:41:59 AM
Overall, I think the unconscious, "shadow personality" presentation and its connection to past lives is a slippery slope that ought to be approached with extreme caution. My sense here is of someone appropriating an authoritative poise by manipulating the chart and speculating out of some compensatory need for power and control over others.   
HVA

Again, Tim, you raise some very valid warnings, but the Huber Method is much more than just this click-thing exercise.  Let's major on the majors, and minor on the minors, rather than majoring on the minors, and minoring on the majors.  The same "mistake" is done when someone places too much emphasis on Joyce Hopewell's first impressions technique which we discussed back on page one of this thread.  It's a MINOR first step.  Not even essential, but helpful.  This click thing exercise, and the first impressions exercise may comprise around 5 percent or so of the total Huber material.  So let's keep things in perspective.  Just because a technique may or may not seem effective, it comprises such a small part of the whole.

That said, all consulting astrologers should have a copy or be familiar with the following book regarding what Tim mentions above in regards to counselors and therapists unconscious desire to have control and power over their clients.  It's a classic in the field, and should be a must-read for any kind of counselor or therapist...

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Helping-Professions-Adolf-Guggenbuhl-Craig/dp/0882143042/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1517413286&sr=8-1&keywords=power+in+the+helping+professions

 ;)

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 08:03:40 AM
Regarding the Huber Nodal chart, I find it extremely helpful for me to analyze it via the Huber-delineated techniques for doing so, then seeing how that applies to the client's natal chart and Huber Houses Chart.  Whether or not I mention the Nodal chart with a client depends upon what happens in the moment, and how receptive they are to those types of constructs.

For example, back on page one of this thread, I mentioned the importance of knowing a client's Huber Nodal Chart, and, even more importantly, knowing how all 3 Huber charts interact in regards to this person's current life situation.

I know that for this specific client, that s/he would welcome knowing about their Huber Moon Node Chart, as well as the importance of having the North Node in the 5th House rather than in the 11th House in their natal chart.  It will bring great relief, understanding, and confirmation to that particular client...

 ;)



Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 11:39:45 AM
OK, Astrolog II: Family, Relationships, & Health, by Louise Huber et al, has finally arrived, and I'll add more to this post once I reread the chapter by Louise Huber entitled, "Relationship as a Developmental Process."

Attached below is again my Huber Moon Node Horoscope (MNH).  Notice Mars is in the 3rd House of mindset and thought patterns.  My ex in her MNH has Saturn in the 3rd House, with both Uranus and Pluto in the opposite house, the 9th House (the mindset and thought patterns of one's partner).  This is in accord with Noel's teaching.

The Hubers call the 3/9 axis, the Thought Axis.  "The process starts in the 3rd House with hearing the views of others, and ends in the 9th House with an elaboration of a clear-cut set of ideas of one's own" (from page 120 in Moon-Node Astrology, by Bruno and Louise Huber).

And to make a long story short, this was the main reason we decided to mutually go our separate ways after 18 years of being together.

I won't go into specifics, but just this little snippet has nailed the primary reason.

Louise Huber goes into much more detail in this chapter of nearly 20 pages, with a superb case example and analysis.

The Huber body of work forces astrologers to take a very close look at their psyches and is definitely not for the weak or faint of heart...







Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 03:00:14 PM
Tim, if you would provide us with a link to Wenk...or a lenk to Wenk...or a link to Wink...then we could better understand what you wrote in your post above.  Now that I've read the originator's take on these click charts, I'm in a much better position to understand her students take on things...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 03:16:36 PM
Never mind Tim, I found it.  It's the link that Halina gave two or three pages ago, I take it.  I'll read that one now.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 03:23:32 PM
OK, I'm about five pages into Wenk's 26 page diatribe, and my suggestion is to read Louise Huber's 18-page article in the Astrolog II book first, then read Wenk.  Louise Huber's article is much easier to understand and much more to the point...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 03:32:28 PM
OK, now I'm about nine pages into it, and Tim, you definitely deserve a prize for reading the whole thing and for understanding it as well as you have, lol.

Louise Huber's article is so much easier to follow, although Wenk provides some relevant points once the basics are assimilated and understood.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on January 31, 2018, 03:53:06 PM
James, Halina:   Just posted under Medical and am reaching out for any assistance via Vedic, Huber, Western or tin foil----prognosis?

Just at my exact SR and the Lunar Eclipse I discover this new, major medical prob. No coincidence...

thnx,
Stace

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 04:04:59 PM
Tim, also FYI, Louise Huber's article is very compatible with Gottman's Four Horseman--and his Seven Principles...

 ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 31, 2018, 04:11:41 PM
Hi James, Wenk gives beautiful examples in Appendix A, Appendix B and Appendix C ......if you have enough background I would jump over to them first.   They are more easy to read with the charts she supplies along with the examples......short and to the point.
     I also reading Astrolog II, chapter on pg 169 Click Horoscopes in order to keep pace and offer some side bar info tomorrow or whenever you are ready.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 04:26:14 PM
Yes Halina, I was thinking the same thing...if one has enough background...that's why I suggest reading Louise Huber's article in Astrolog II first.  Then Wenk's dissertation makes more sense.  Will post more tomorrow regarding some of the things Louise Huber mentions in that article...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on January 31, 2018, 04:53:21 PM
O.K. James, I added Louise 2 initial examples....i.e. their natals in color to help you in your preparatory reading.   See below....if you need any other charts let me
know.   I also added the couple's natal click chart.   Roland's planets in blue, Julia's planets in red.   Finally, both couples Nodal chart and the Click chart resulting.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on January 31, 2018, 04:58:06 PM
Thank you Halina.  Signing off for tonight!
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on February 01, 2018, 03:53:08 AM
I did in fairness find her "explicating" on those terms about projection quite helpful, but at the end found the entire presentation incoherent and grasping at straws. The "inexplicable" was never clearly explained except by way of conjecture. Where this reader trips up is with the Nodal Chart. I could do without this extension of the Huber Method. Just my sense about it, but their natal approach AND even Sylvia's Click charts from what little exposure we've had here are probably worth exploring.

When Lisa and I treat ourselves to eat at a local Italian-Middle Eastern Eatery its because of their Salad Del Cocco and brick fired pizza... but you know on occasion the prized Kalamata olives and small square chunks of feta are too scant to be seen. Like our coveted del cocco my writing can leave a reader wanting, word salad that is a little short on the good stuff. Halina, I think that you and James and others (but mainly you and James) have done an over the top job in presenting the Huber method to the forum. What little I know and understand of that method is really because of both of your efforts and the incredible job you've both done. Well done and thank you. And to reiterate clearly, the Huber Method is probably worth exploring. No doubt I should have been more generous with the olives and unfortunately, someone is always moving my cheese.  ::)  :D

HVA



Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on February 01, 2018, 05:19:41 AM
It's a classic in the field, and should be a must-read for any kind of counselor or therapist...

James,

Thanks so much for this link.

"Most professions serve the health and well-being of mankind in one way or another. But the activities of the doctor, priest, teacher, psychotherapist and social worker, involve very specialized and deliberate attempts to help the unfortunate, the ill, those who have somehow lost their way. In the following chapters I should like to describe how and why the members of these "ministering professions" can also do the greatest damage - harm caused directly by their desire to help."

And that's just the opening salvo... I have always thought that I need to in the words of Adolf, "be very intent on seeing the beam in my own eye and not only the mote in the other fellows." And I try. Again, I'm not even off the first page... Wow! Much appreciated.

Your example using the MNH is also very intriguing... that is just the sort of example I was missing. And of course there are likely plenty of examples in the source material by Louise and Bruno.

Thanks to you and Halina I've identified those volumes to pick up at some point so that I can give proper attention to this work. If not as a practitioner, there are no doubt concepts worth integrating into my own approach... So thanks again...

I have a comprehensive library... not exhaustive but well stocked. Still... Noel's work has a way of simply standing out in my mind...

I imagine myself on a big ocean liner, the kind that travelers take their "cruise" vacations on, and furthermore imagine that this cruise ship is enormous, a multi-decker with conference rooms and game rooms and assorted luxuries. And on this ship every conceivable astrologer both past and present is there. It is a star orgy of star power and people are altogether over the Moon about the experience. Face to face meetings with your favorite astrologers of all time, meals with friends both old and new, chance conviviums on elevators that pack more learning into the ride between floors than full out seminars. But where is Noel Tyl in all of this? People keep asking because he is nowhere to be seen. And so I walk to the bow of the ship and hang over the nose like Jack Dawson on the Titanic just to see if I can get a glimpse. And yes I have a rose clenched between my teeth, because Kate Winslet was not available. And there way out in the distance I see him. Noel is far ahead, way out in front of the boat, swimming in the water, off by himself and away from the noise, in the silence of the ocean and close to the horizon. There the water meets the sky as the Sun sets and Noel, swimming, dives into the Sun.

In gratitude,

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 01, 2018, 06:27:57 AM
Tim, now that I've had time to read more of Astrolog II: Family, Relationships, and Health, there's a couple of articles in there written by someone named Harald Zittlau, that I trust you would enjoy.  One is entitled, "Family Secrets", the other, "Some Thoughts On Relationships".  The one on relationships immediately precedes Louise Huber's aforementioned article, and here you will see even more striking parallels to Gottman's work than even with Louise's article.  I personally enjoyed the "Family Secrets" article, since he addressed some key ancestral issues which often affect the current generation in some way, shape, or form.

I can relate, since my mother's father committed suicide around 15 years or so before we were born in 61, and I've always felt a very close connection to him and his ancestors.  Zittlau has shown me how this kind of family "secret" can--and has--affected me, even with the long time lapse in-between.  Especially in regards to my Moon-Node horoscope.

As you well know, I enjoy integrating different pioneering astrologers with Noel's methodology, and I trust that a thorough study of the Huber material can only help in assisting what one has already learned from Noel.

And obviously, Noel and the Hubers had great respect for each others work, at the very least...

 ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 01, 2018, 06:37:01 AM
Noel and the Hubers are like the "Protestants", protesting against "Catholic Mother India", but one is "Methodist" and the other "Baptist", if you catch my analogy...

LOL...

 ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 01, 2018, 07:00:12 AM
Halina, thank you again for posting the charts of Roland and Julia from Louise Huber's article, but I'm going to just comment on how that article has relevance to my own three Huber charts, in regards to a couple of close relationships I've had in the past.  People who want to know more about the Huber material will get off their...couches...and obtain a copy of their books.  People who don't, won't.  And that's fine...that's where they're currently at...no worries, both approaches work, and different strokes for different folks...

 :)

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 01, 2018, 07:05:46 AM
Thanx James, will save me time posting anymore charts.   Found this sentence from "Family Secrets", pg 21, "betrayal, SUICIDE, or unatoned-for-murders that occurred long before the birth of a certain family member(you), can give this person feelings of self-abnegation, paranoia, or depression."
      Further, pg 26, "Primarily of interest here are the frequency of accidents, unusual illnesses, SUICIDES IN PREVIOUS GENERATIONS, and all themes over which
a cloak of secrecy lies or to which there are unnatural reactions in the family environment.     Often so-called "black sheep" or "eccentrics" who show an excess
desire for freedom or extreme living habits are bearers of a family secret."
     Author goes on to say that this secret can be found in the natal or the Moon Node chart(the past).....so if we look at your Huber Natal and MNH chart, James, can you see where this 'secret' is revealed?   Would we look at your 4th Home of Family?  or your 12th of secrets?   Would your separation have been caused by a family 'secret'?
     The author reveals how to find this 'secret' pg 25:
1. Planetary oppositions in sign axes can indicate restricting family traditions.
2. Aspect structure.   Linear figures act out family 'secrets'.
    Symmetrical aspect figure(fixed) tend to preserve or negate.
    Triangular figures...look for insight in connections.
    Incoherent structures constitute projection areas for family secrets.
3. House positions of the planets....particularly just before House axes, giving stressed planets.
4. The Age Point especialy during intersection of AP and Moon Node, AP offers intensive access
    to causes & consequences of family secrets.
5. The Family Model gives quality of bonds 'tween child and maternal & paternal figures in family
    environment, background & possible role adaptations from this.
6. The Moon Node horoscope shows "inherited burdens" from acquired karma or the shadow of
    previous generations.
                              Below James's Huber natal and Moon Node horoscope....what do we see
    regarding the suicide 'secret'?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on February 01, 2018, 07:32:20 AM
Halina,
Am also interested in markers for suicide given the obvious depression in my chart, and the recent suicide of an ex-bf.  thanx, Stace
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on February 01, 2018, 07:37:52 AM
Thank you, Hudson, for painting that picture of the big ocean liner with Noel way out in front swimming ahead of it into the Sun.  True dat.


Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 01, 2018, 07:50:40 AM
I believe I mentioned this once or twice before here...at one time, many moons ago, I was going to move in with a lady who lived around 50 or so miles away, but then Fate intervened.  We didn't have any contact for the next 13 years.  When we did re-establish contact on Facebook, we were now 2700 miles apart, and yet seriously discussed about getting back together.  In the intervening years, she had become a Marriage, Child, and Family therapist with a thriving private practice, and when she now spoke about our relationship, I listened most attentively.  After a few weeks, she decided to break it off, due to the following...

"Jim, it takes more than love to make a relationship work.  And right now in my life, I don't want to settle down with anyone.  I know that one day in the future, I most likely will want to settle down again.  But not now."

Naturally, when I began learning about the Huber Method last month, and more specifically, these click charts during the past couple of days, I'm able to see more clearly astrologically what she intuitively was sensing.

As stated before on this thread, all 3 of my Huber charts have a lot of green aspects.  She has very few.  What she does have are a lot of blue aspects in her 3 charts, which again suggests security issues are high on her list of priorities--maintaining the status quo, and keeping things as stable as possible--for her.

If we were to get back together again in this lifetime, it would most likely be via the bridge of the 8th House, and the 4/10 axis.  The Hubers label this axis the Individuality Axis, and wrote, "This is a group of persons with the same lifestyle as ourselves."  And this is what she is trying to figure out for herself, and thus would have to venture into an arena that she is not so comfortable with presently.

I am thankful for the Huber material, which points out these kinds of observations...



Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 01, 2018, 08:04:20 AM
Hang on Stace, let's study James first......WELL LOOKEE HERE!   Focus your eyes on James' Huber natal chart and the projection triangle, Sun,the father, in the 4th of Family line, forms a progection triangle to Pluto, death, suicide, Rx, retrograde means it happened in the past conj Node, his mother's     And this projection triangle completes itself with a sextile to Moon, again, concerning, James's Mother.   WOW!   This triangle would be aspected at different ages for Jim.p
     This triangle is the FAMILY SECRET.    The suicide of James's mother's father.   Now let's look for some revealing goodies in James's Moon Nodal chart, see next post.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 01, 2018, 08:14:39 AM
...I'm sitting here with an amused smile, Halina.  Please continue with the Moon-Node chart...so far, you're right on target...

 ;D
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 01, 2018, 08:28:12 AM
Smile on James, below is your Moon Node chart, again revealing your SHADOW, the family secret.   Sun, fathers, in the 7th House, which is the 10th from the 10th or represents your Mother's Father is in a Linear structure, 150 degrees to Pluto, death, in the 12th of secrets...therefore this death was a secret in your family, representing the suicide of your mother's father.  Of course, the MNH horoscope refers to your past including past family members.   I wonder if this family secret affected your relationships as the Sun is in the 7th of relationship?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 01, 2018, 08:35:37 AM
No, I don't believe it has affected my relationships because that Sun in my Moon-Node chart is pushing into the 8th House.  I read where the Hubers advise to see that type of situation as Sun leaving one house and entering another. 

Now, extra credit homework time, lol...

Go to my D9 Navamsha chart, and notice which house my Sun is in.

Then notice the condition of the 12th House, and 12th House ruler in both my D1 and D9 charts.  Are malefics or benefics aspecting my 12th House?  Are malefics or benefics aspecting my 12th House ruler?

Why 12th House?

Because the 12th House is the 9th House from the 4th House.

4th House = mother.

9th House = father.

So mother's father is the 9th House from the 4th House, which equals the radix 12th House...

 ;D
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 01, 2018, 08:38:31 AM

Halina,
Am also interested in markers for suicide given the obvious depression in my chart, and the recent suicide of an ex-bf.  thanx, Stace.
    Thank you for your example which gives us opportunity for study and understanding and unlocking of the unconscious to reveal our SHADOW.
If time permits I will tackle your example tomorrow, thanx again.




Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 01, 2018, 08:38:52 AM
Alright Halina, time for my daily workout at the gym...look forward to your response when I return...

 ;D
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 01, 2018, 08:58:08 AM
      Nothing like Vedic CONFLUENCE, CONFLUENCE, CONFLUENCE!!!  Your Vedic D1 and D9 below.   I'm gone for a while....treadmill then heart doctor quarterly checkup.  Bye Bye.   Almost forgot, in your D1, malefic aspects your Merc, r12 ruler.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on February 01, 2018, 12:23:05 PM
No hurry at all, Halina! Will be tied up for a few hours here anyway.  Thanx. Leo Moon day for your heart exams...Did you plan that?

James, nice Leo Moon romance story ;).
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 01, 2018, 02:09:29 PM
Hi Stace, I think the Moon was in Virgo....but thanks for making me think.....yes, my doctor is a Virgo...in his office he has numerous black and white winter scenes mounted on his walls.....done by pen and black ink only....beautiful.   I am physically low peak today so am leaving all chart work until tomorrow.
Do you wish to share boyfriend's birth data in relation to your question above?
     I might decide to refrain on suicide questions but in your boyfriend's case don't see any harm to see what caused this.    If agree, would need date, time of his transition with coordinates.....then can study the Huber Age Point wheel and trace if there were factors in the past by looking among other things.....RETROGRADE
PLANETS in his Huber Natal and Huber Moon Node chart.    In other words we are looking for a history of depression in his family.   Use of asteroids may be necessary but not so if these 2 charts reveal family depression factors.
    In the meantime, you might review my list of things to look for in a Huber natal and Huber Node chart for family secrets(in this case a secret of depression, or
suicide).    This list is in my first post on page 18....scroll to the very top.
     
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on February 01, 2018, 09:33:36 PM
Hi Halina,

Hope you are feeling more energetic.

You actually delineated my ex-bf's suicide by reviewing his asteroids mostly and via westerm astrology if I recall though you may have mixed in some Vedic.

Using Noon for tob and tod as I am not positive, but he did have 12th house Pisces Moon and Aries ASC. with Cap. Sun cj MC, so pretty close. He died Dec. 12, 2011, Pueblo, CA. Was born Jan. 5, 1949, also Pueblo, CO.

Thanks, for any workup you feel like doing. I will be gone most of tomorrow but will check in in the evening.

   Stace
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on February 02, 2018, 04:26:20 AM
Noel and the Hubers are like the "Protestants", protesting against "Catholic Mother India", but one is "Methodist" and the other "Baptist", if you catch my analogy...

James Joyce's alter ego, Stephen Dedalus, in his novel A Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man, renounced the Catholic Church. He had lost his faith. His friend suggested he become a Protestant. "“I said that I had lost the faith . . . but not that I had lost self-respect” was his reproach.

We all are born into a value system that we either reject or adopt and in so doing establish our trajectory along the path we are on. First, we understand a fundamental truth about human behavior, followed by the how's and why's which are supported by our rational minds, all within a context we find in our inherited stories and myths. Many intellectuals construct their life's work on a similar trinity; what is fundamental, rational, and mythological. In our work, the "family myth" is pivotal. These constructs are inherently tied to and reflect deeply ingrained personal values. Losing that reference, or "self-respect" in the words of Michael Stipes is akin to "losing my religion."

William James notes similarly three drives that compel our faith and beliefs. He refers to a "live option" or choice, being forced to choose, and that decision being somehow momentous. It is an all or nothing plus unavoidable option, which seems certain but which is really filled with ambiguity. Coming to the edge of a cliff and deciding to walk off the edge into the unknown with your little dog yapping at your heels and a bag of all your belongings slung over your shoulder. Aside from a "born again" moment, I think James didn't really believe that we choose our beliefs. We just have them! And interestingly, this view explains why so many people just follow other people like lemmings, leaving their logic at the door, a leash tied around the neck of their passions. I've always felt that "choosing" to study astrology was tantamount to cutting that cord.

Anyone blessed enough to have been brought in from the cold and into the fold has felt the warmth and comfort of their congregation. And the healthiest most vibrant religions are made strong by a multiplicity of views which at the same time share a commonality, an absolute core which is tolerant of the differences at the  peripheral. As much as Catholicism may be a "live option" and perhaps for example Hinduism even more so, Astrology I think carries this extraordinary seed, a sacred fullness which makes all ensuing religions possible and why Astrology lives despite falling into obscurity. A hardened intolerant core will collapse in upon itself, not appreciative of the many side with the one cosmos, it will shrivel in sectarianism. We've seen this time and time again.

So, yes there are varying schools of astrology and varying sects of religion. But do they not in their essence all attempt to get at the same thing? And yet each only partially have a hold on that thing... There are 100 billion neurons that make up our brains, as many stars as there are in the Milky Way. What we are learning through analysis is that the "connections" between those neurons are more important than the neurons themselves; bringing those connections together creatively is what we call synthesis, a multiplicity of ideas that all relate to the same human experience.

I guess we're all in the same boat. And the momentous life work of individuals like the Hubers and the Tyls of the world, leave me in awe. So, I've gone ahead and ordered a Huber book. LOL

HVA   
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 02, 2018, 06:17:40 AM
Thank you Tim.  None of us will be here--at least in these bodies--to see it, but towards the end of this century astrologers will have to not only respect and appreciate differing points of astrological perspective, but also integrate and incorporate them into their own practice.  There's just way too much information coming through the pipeline now from native languages, and being translated into various other languages such as English.  And that will enable those astrologers to better serve the world community than we are presently, with our segregations...

Looking forward Tim to your comments regarding your Huber book...both pros AND cons...

 ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 02, 2018, 06:30:08 AM
     Hi HVA/Tim  ,congrats on ordering the Huber book....you might wish to combine their techniques with Tyl methods as James and I do.    Now can we interest you in Vedic or Chinese astrology?
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 02, 2018, 06:38:43 AM
Stacey.....what a coincidence, I usually get up in the morning to scan some of my other sites and came across this.....which bears similarity to you.    Jim Carrey was born about 15 days prior to you in 1962, Jan 17, 1962, 2:30am, New Market, Ontario, Canada.   His Ascendant is similar to yours....his is 15Sc12..   He has a packed 3rd House, like you.....with Neptune on the Asc like you and Moon in Gemini in 8th.
     A day or so ago you were interested in depression and suicide.    Carrey has been cleared of involvement in his girlfriend's suicide when he left her.    His childhood was tough since he felt alienated by his dyslexia and his family's poverty as well as his mother's depressive illness and latterly his father's manic depression.
     You might be interested in studying Carrey's chart on your own using Huber methods, Vedic or even Tropical astrology.
I just don't have the time to get into Carrey's chart but am quite sure some family history of depression would be seen.
     Asteroid marker for depression is "Melancholia" and for a 'depressed state of mind' use asteroid "Funke".    For suicide use
asteroids "Erigone" or "Williams".    Location of asteroids for any date can be found at the following site, just type in the asteroids name:    www.true-node.com/eph1
     I previously delineated your ex-bf's suicide by reviewing his asteroids mostly and via westerm astrology, with some Vedic. 
You could review this post by using SEARCH on the Tyl site.
    These side bar requests eat up a lot of personal time but using these markers I have provided should help you answer personal questions.    No time of birth for ex, however, his Huber shapes/structures reveal much re depression/suicide.  Scroll to the right or shrink figures.   Neptune, retrograde, therefore refers to the PAST, generations of family alcohol or addictions.
Uranus at a suicidal degree connects to depression markers Saturn-Mercury.
    Below also you and Carrey's charts.
NB: in Ex' Microscope Figure...."things close to hand are seen in minute detail and the bigger picture may be lost".   Other people have a Telescope Figure pointing up not down.   They might look to the stars and unlock their unconscious shadow.   Below the horizon in a chart represents the unconscious, above the horizon represents the conscious.   We don't have his birthtime, but I suspect an emphasis of planets below the horizon, "unfinished biz in the early home."
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Robynne on February 02, 2018, 08:50:54 PM
Hello everyone,


Have been reading along with this thread, and was very interested in the Huber: 'Houses of the Lunar Node Chart'.

From what I understand here, the Nodal axis is rotated to the Ascendant/Descendant axis? Is that right James or Halina?.

Just adding my chart for some added verification, the Pisces stellium load up in the 5th does seem to reflect or represent, that for most of my life my major focus has been on children and creativity in one way or another.

Thanks for the opportunity to join the discussion...





Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 03, 2018, 01:03:28 AM
Yes Robynne, whatever sign one's True Node is in in their natal chart, becomes the Ascendant sign in their Moon-Nodes Huber Chart.

And yes, with Sun, Moon, and the planetary significator of children, Jupiter, all in the 5th House in your Moon-Node Chart, it suggests you were highly involved with children and/or creativity as one of your main previous lifetime themes.

I see that this is only your third post here, so welcome, and please stay on topic...you're off to a very good start...

 ;D
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on February 03, 2018, 04:04:42 AM
     Hi HVA/Tim  ,congrats on ordering the Huber book....you might wish to combine their techniques with Tyl methods as James and I do.    Now can we interest you in Vedic or Chinese astrology?

Thanks Halina... have actually already been looking at Nine Star Ki and Four Pillar charts. Fascinating stuff. A friend from Amsterdam is quite proficient in all of the above. My Vedic reflections however are a bit outside of the box... circum luscious even...

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on February 03, 2018, 04:30:10 AM
Robynne,

Great question: Look at that chart again... yes the Nodal axis shifts to become the ascendant axis... the planets take a "mirrored" position for example my 8 degree Mars in Cancer in my Natal Chart sits at 22 degrees Cancer in the House Chart of the Lunar Nodes. And in keeping with the mirror you see that the signs reverse their order around the wheel... which was an odd discovery for me, like looking at my chart "from the other side." LOL

You'll notice that the Nodal axis in fact appears to "switch out" with the Ascendant axis. At first I thought that those axis were swapped and then an adjustment made to the Nodal Axis same as the planetary points. This would be a cool adjustment because then I was considering how the Nodal Axis and Ascendant might be viewed similarly for a Forward Looking Chart. i.e. the next life, and then the next, etc. But the transformation of the chart doesn't seem to go there...

Does this mean that the we are sort of stuck between this life and the last? Do we just do it over and over and over again like Bill Murray does the same day over and over in the movie Groundhog's Day? LOL

Will understand more hopefully behind the mechanics...


HVA

The House Node Chart indeed is a mirrored perspective of the natal chart with the signs reversing their order around the wheel... but be careful not to misread the degree if it is not marked, where you need to count the small hash marks as in the astrodienst charts... I mistakenly saw these degrees having flipped as well such that early degrees would become later degrees. This is not true since the sings are reversed. 8 Cancer in the Natal chart is still 8 Cancer in the House Node Chart. Duh! Must of had a really big ADD day yesterday.

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 03, 2018, 05:48:57 AM
Hi HVA, yes Chinese astrology is very accurate.....would you mind giving me a reference for that yellow ki chart you posted above....sounds like Feng Shui room arrangement planning.....i.e what plants and where do I put them in my newly designed living room.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on February 03, 2018, 06:09:07 AM
https://www.fourpillars.net/online9Ki.php (https://www.fourpillars.net/online9Ki.php)

In the right panel... you will see a link for Lunatic Trader... Danny's work is simply remarkable. He's a hyper logical guy and uses the lunar cycles to calibrate his exposure to risk and has larger cycle running in the background using Four Pillars.

The day to day is more determinate based on price moves and "seeing the market" or an instrument's behavior right in front of you because what we expect based on whatever system we are following isn't always what we get. As a result, he has been far more accurate than most because of a unique synthesis in his understanding between his particular system and his environment (object). So, I think he provides himself a decision matrix that works within the context of his system and in this way his interpretations are not only precise but circumspect.

It's a very sensible approach. AND I think can be arrived at with whatever system one follows. It may be less important to integrate across systems and more important to master one within the context of your audience. Still, I am drawn to the Huber perspective. The Alice Bailey influence gives me pause... that's my one hesitation of diving in too deep... been down that rabbit hole already... so not sure how pervasive her ideas are in the Huber material. What I find attractive though, and what I am willing to explore is the psychological and personality work. We'll see when the material arrives...

HVA 
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 03, 2018, 07:06:24 AM
Louise Huber mentions Alice Bailey in Moon-Node Astrology, but I haven't seen too much, if any, in the other seven books by the Hubers.

Also, let's please not turn the Huber thread into Chinese Astrology...please start a new thread for that.

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on February 03, 2018, 07:59:13 AM
Thanks...

Good to know...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 03, 2018, 08:15:20 AM
...that's why I mentioned earlier in this thread that the Hubers book, Aspect Pattern Astrology, would probably be the "least threatening" or most compatible Huber book for those who follow Noel's approach.  I would now also add the Huber book, LifeClock, as well...

 ;)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Robynne on February 03, 2018, 10:45:56 AM
Thanks for clarifying that James.

Yes, I can see the benefit now, of approaching a new method with a firm foundation or footing, going slowly.

This chart personally makes sense to me with Cancer Asc, as when I became a mum, it felt like a whole new phase of my life had started, and then becoming a Nana felt like a repeat cycle in a way, but one step back, still being a hands on carer at times, but more removed.


Tim,

Still reading over your response, thanks..


Okay, I do see that clearly now re: the Nodal axis being the new Ascendant axis, and then the new North Node being the degree of the original Ascendant.

With Mercury conjunct North Node and Saturn in Aquarius in the 6th, can see how that represents the bulk of the type of work that I have been employed for since June 2015.
Market Research Interviewing, which is basically questioning, surveying and collating data and opinions from people from various districts all around New Zealand.

So have literally talked and listened to thousands of people over that time period.  I had never undertaken that type of work before then.


But, what is the nature of the red threads, do they always just represent squares and oppositions?

Title: Re: The Huber Method/Locality Chart
Post by: Halina on February 04, 2018, 12:57:41 PM
       NEW TOPIC: ARE YOU LIVING IN THE RIGHT LOCALITY?
Have you experienced different cities in your life to date and had positive things happen in one city and negative things mostly in another local.
Look at the two charts below of a female who lived in Bamberg, Germany then moved to Zurich, Switzerland.  First chart, her natal, second chart her Local Horoscope for Zurich.
      We concentrate only on the 3 ego planets, Sun, Saturn, Moon.   These are decisive for self development and well-being in a place.
SUN:  For Bamberg, her Sun is just after the 2nd House, this shows that her material resouces had to be fully exploited and she had to shoulder the
         responsibility for her finances.   She, herself, had to procure whatever was necessaryl
         She moves to Zurich....Sun moves to a stress area in the shadow of the 11th House.   Sun from lower to upper half.   She had more opportunities
         for individuation & self realization here than in Bamberg.  She could sharpen her identity in conert with like-minded people.   This was not easy as
         Sun was in a stress area, and also intercepted with no House of its own.
SATURN
        For Bamberg, Saturn is in the 7th House and moves to the Local 4th House in Zurich.    From upper half of horoscope to lower half.    In the 4th House,
        Saturn is experienced as stress or pressure from the environmental group.    She was always afraid the neighbors would take offence at anything she did.
        She always had to be doing things for the family, the home, for those around.    She felt tied and responsible.
        In Bamberg, radical Saturn is in the 7th....she wanted support from her partner, but little help was forthcoming, certainly not as much help as previously
        (square to Moon).
MOON
        Moves from radical 5th to just before Local Ascendant.   Emotional rapport with the place was important to her health.   Cancer Moon at Ascendant reacted
        subjectively to acceptance & also to slightest rejection.     She was tense & uncertain whether she was making a good impression.    The worry drained
        her of energy.   She had a hard fight against unjustified fears (shadow planet = tendency to compensate).
You already have your radical chart.....go to Astrodienst site to produce your Locality chart......I think Solar Fire also does this.    For example, James could study his Locality charts for Maryland, California and Ohio as he has lived in those localities and had different experiences there. 
Title: Re: The Huber Method/Local Chart Age Point Progresseion
Post by: Halina on February 04, 2018, 02:05:17 PM
       On this chart, find your age when you moved to this new city.....example, she arrived in Zurich in September, 1952...she would be 28+ years old.
Find 28 on the Local Wheel chart and see whether good aspects or bad ones happened at different ages, from that point forward.....when she stays in that city.
        Sept1952 arrived at Zurich, Age Point at 27 Sagittarius conj galactic center.....she iwould experience universal values.
        Oct  1952, proposal of marriage....Age Point sextile Saturn and 150 Moon.
        Feb 1953, settled in Zurich....AP trine North Node.1955
        Feb 1954 to Oct 1955, AP opposition Venus & Pluto....left Zurich to take up spiritual work full time.
        Sept 1962, AP conjunct Mars.....return to Zurich.
        Dec 1964, AP opp Neptune.....started her own service enterprise in Zurich.
        Mar 1968, AP entered Pisces where Uranus was......launched a Uranian-type project.   Intense personal, mental activity.
                        AP conj Uranus, in 9th....independent lecturer on esoteric subjects.
                        1978 onwards, AP thru' 10th, success in professional and spiritual endeavors, popularity grows
                        AP conj Sun.....honors and increased recognition. self-confidence blossomed with financial stability---a vindication of radical Sun on 2nd H.cusp.
           
       
       
       
       
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 13, 2018, 05:50:27 AM
       Here is Jon Williams's Huber Age Point Progression wheel showing that on passing from heart attack, his Age Point was on a Low Point, 10Aquarius, quincunx ruler Uranus which is conj his Sun, the heart.    The quincunx is a HEALTH aspect.
Jon's natal Sun sits just before the cusp of the 2nd House, making natal Sun a STRESSED PLANET!
      Counting from his natal Sun, heart, the Age Point had reached the low point of the 8th House, death.
Trans Pluto was exactly on his Descendant.     Shrink Age Progression chart to 75% if too large.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Robynne on February 13, 2018, 10:13:43 AM
Beautiful work Halina, hope it's okay to  jump in here.

James, I've noticed that using this Huber method, that You and your brother Jon have reversed Ascendants based on the nodal axis.

Any thoughts on that timing?

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on February 13, 2018, 11:33:41 AM
Robynne:

Significant catch of yours. Regarding synastry: reversed Ascendants indicate a strong karmic bond.

Stacy
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 13, 2018, 11:11:25 PM
Thank you Halina.  Yes, Jon was nearing his Low Point of the 9th House, thus he was between the Balance Point and the Low Point when he made his transition.  So he was in what the Hubers termed the fixed zone of a house.  The "principle of fixity craves for security in order to conserve what has been produced" (LifeClock, page 119).  In other words, he was going through a time phase in which he desired no change in lifestyle, which, in his case, entropied into his transition time.  Had he made it to his Low Point of the 9th House, would he have had enough strength to climb up that hill to the 10th?  Probably not.  "The uncertainty crisis over the meaning of life as the Low Point of the ninth house is reached at the age of fifty-two, detaches us from the tried and trusted" (p. 239).  He didn't really want any part of that.  He was ready to move on to another dream, one not located on the earth plane.

The Ascendants.  The Huber emphasis is not on the changing or reversed Ascendants, but on what sign and house one's North Node is in.  Jon's North Node was in Pisces, mine is in Virgo.  My orientation should be towards service to others, while Jon's should have been more towards cultivating Oneness.  He tried.

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on February 14, 2018, 12:35:47 AM
Maybe so, Stacy.

Your North Node degree is 18' 3 Leo. My late husbands North Node degree is 18' 32 Leo.

You were born 4 weeks after him, but on the other side of the world of course.


 ;)

R--my brothers' ASC is 18 Leo exactly too--partile cj with my NN as well. Very karmic relationship between us. My mother's ASC and father's Nodal axis were also in exact conjunction. I could go on.

Stacy

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Robynne on February 14, 2018, 03:25:52 AM
Stacy:

Yes, the connections amongst family are almost uncanny sometimes.

James:

Okay, can see now that it is the house emphasis of the North Node sign that is relevant here.

Quote
"The uncertainty crisis over the meaning of life as the Low Point of the ninth house is reached at the age of fifty-two, detaches us from the tried and trusted" (p. 239).  He didn't really want any part of that.  He was ready to move on to another dream, one not located on the earth plane.

Can definitely relate to this cycle at 52.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: amymaddalozzo on February 14, 2018, 05:24:10 AM
James   Interesting comments about the north/south nodes.  My north node is in pisces, opposed mercury in virgo.  Western astrology DOES NOT pay attention much to the nodes.  My moon also squares my nodes and all I heard is that my mother was a big influence on me (correct) and with the moon in Sag, I really had 2 mothers-correct-I was very close to paternal grandmother as a child.  AMY
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 14, 2018, 07:10:46 AM
Amy, yes, unfortunately Western astrology does not place enough emphasis on the Nodes, although there is a branch known as evolutionary astrology, in which Steven Forrest has written a book on which I currently have.  But the one I turn to most often regarding the Nodes from a karmic evolutionary Western perspective is Martin Schulman's Karmic Astrology: The Moon's Nodes and Reincarnation, Volume 1.  First published in 1975!

James Braha also wrote a book integrating both Jyotisha and Western evolutionary astrology which is quite nice...

So they're out there, but unfortunately disrespected, ignored, and neglected by most practitioners of Western astrology...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 14, 2018, 07:15:26 AM
Thanks Amy, Robynne, Stacey on the interesting nodal connection example.    James thanx for the additional info on brother Jon's chart.   You say your orientation should be towards service to others, let's check that out in our next Huber topic....
    THE INTEGRATION HOROSCOPE....is a biwheel in which your natal horoscope is inside and your Moon Node horoscope(what latent qualities from the past are brought to this lifetime) is on the outer wheel.   Check astrodienst it may do this type of wheel for you.  How good is the integration 'tween these 2 wheels....we check by looking at major aspects 'tween the EGO planets on both wheels(Sun, Moon, Saturn)...aspects include squares, sextiles, trines, semi-sextiles, quincunxes.
    All the subconscious energies which affect our conscious personality become clear to us.   The INTEGRATION HOROSCOPE
provides the starting point for successfully accessing our latent aptitudes.
    Example 1: JAMES WILLIAMS, see his Integration Horoscope below with Huber interpretations.   Blue aspects give self assurance, green aspects give sensitivity.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 14, 2018, 08:55:37 AM
Thank you Halina.  This is what I love about the Huber Method...it forces you to take a very close look at yourself...which is why most will probably shy away from it...

"open and keen to learn, intelligent and also obstinate and self-opinionated."  Yes, but I've become more Self-opinionated in recent years.  Or rather, my self opinions are more in line with what other sages have mentioned regarding the Self.

"The inability to master physical demands of daily living can evoke feelings of inferiority..."  Very interesting.  I've always been much more interested in the spiritual rather than the physical, and I learned in my early 20's that I'll always be given what I need, i.e., enough to fulfill my material necessities.  When I was younger I wondered why I was so different than most others when it came to material necessities, i.e., possessions.  If I didn't have my books, I wouldn't have but a handful of possessions.  And I've given away nearly all of my books, other than my astrology books.

Natal Moon to Nodal Moon comments...very much right on...brings to memory that my ex used to tell me that I was too trusting of others, and that I would repeatedly get burnt.  Perhaps I finally learned that lesson last spring.

Sun-Saturn comments also yes.

Last paragraph also correct, especially during younger years.

And I see I also have corresponding Moon-Saturn semi-sextiles.  This will "strengthen the depth and feeling content of a relationship...we need the reassurance that we are needed and wanted."

Also spot on.

Thank you Halina.  Very instructive!

 :)



Title: Re: The Huber Method/Integration Charts
Post by: Halina on February 14, 2018, 05:20:24 PM
Hi James, would you mind interpreting each of the following integration charts for Robynne, Amy, Stacey.    I'm out of town.
One positive sentence or 2 would suffice for each gal.    Reference: Transformations book pgs 181 to 186.
I have added Lahiri Mahasaya's Integration chart .
Title: Re: The Huber Method/Integration Charts
Post by: Antonio on February 15, 2018, 12:30:32 AM
Hi James, would you mind interpreting each of the following integration charts for Robynne, Amy, Stacey.    I'm out of town. One positive sentence or 2 would suffice

Triple Combo:
"open and keen to learn, intelligent and also obstinate and self-opinionated."   
#me2 :P
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Stacy on February 15, 2018, 06:16:21 AM
Antonio.....are you actually using the last few words to describe me/us?
I think I am offended!  May I see your chart again please, so I can pass judgement, er, I mean submit positive feedback on yours? ;D 

Huhlina----it's "STACY"   ;)

p.s. I thought we had delineated these charts eons ago?

James--dear Moderator of this thread--we need to find a way to conclude and wrap this up, IMO. (Well, since I am "self-opinionated".  Moon in a Fixed sign today--put a fork in it, it's done baby...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 15, 2018, 09:39:50 AM
Hi Halina, I'll put it on my to do list, as there's so much more we can add to this thread...

 ;D
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 15, 2018, 10:05:57 AM
Thanx James, I agree there is much more to be added to this thread.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Robynne on February 15, 2018, 12:58:33 PM
Thankyou for keeping James on task Halina!

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 16, 2018, 07:34:56 AM
Thanks Robynne,  Here's a chance to review all the Huber techniques we have covered to date, by reading this Huber analysis of Aldous Huxley.......https://astrologicalpsychology.org/aldous-huxley-the-birdman-from-beyond/
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 16, 2018, 09:05:37 AM
I see that Jennifer Aniston is now separated again.  She remarried when she was 46 years old, and according to the Huber literature, that probably was not a smart move at that age...so fast forward 3 years, and we see the outcome of that decision...

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Aniston,_Jennifer

Attached below are her Huber Natal Chart and Huber Nodes Chart...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 16, 2018, 10:42:27 AM
Low Point experiences in the fixed cross, especially at age 45-46, involve the "nonfulfillment of personal aspirations, and often mark a time of disillusionment...Nothing seems to happen without a thorough shake-up and a great deal of destruction and reconstruction" (from page 211 in Transformation: Astrology As A Spiritual Path, by Bruno and Louise Huber).

Perhaps Jennifer at age 46 felt that getting married would "finalize" her relationship, but she likely was just forcing the issue.  Wishful thinking...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Robynne on February 16, 2018, 12:40:30 PM
Thank you Halina, but Aldous Huxley?, haven't read his work since I was in college. That is one deep thinker. 
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on February 16, 2018, 05:09:13 PM
...and notice that Aniston's Age Point in 2017 was aspecting several of her natal planets...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on February 17, 2018, 08:22:27 AM
Thanx James,   Jennifer has many stressed planets contributing to her inability to find a lasting mate:
1.  Mars on the cusp of a House, rules her 7th, partnerships.
2.  Sun on the cusp of 5th House, love given, rules her 11th House, love received.
3.  Saturn, lasting ability, on 7th cusp, partners, rules her 4th, Home life.
4.  Pluto, sex, on the cusp of 12th, secret problems is also stressed.
     More on Jennifer and her relationship problems here.....http://www.star4cast.com/jennifer-aniston-lasting-love-still-elusive/
Below is Aniston and her latest partner Justin Thoroux's CLICK CHART...they have separated.....can you see from this chart
why they "DIDN'T CLICK".    Jennifer's planets in blue, Justin's planets in red.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Robynne on February 26, 2018, 12:41:12 AM
Thanks Halina,

Have surveyed and think I have grasped the basics now with the Huber method, but still would have loved to have had the books to follow along better.

One point though:

There is no Ascendant supplied for Justin Thoreaux here. So it is based on Jennifer Aniston's Libran Ascendant in the Huber Natal chart, (not the Huber Nodal chart)?.


Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on March 01, 2018, 03:40:29 AM
Attached are Noel's Huber Natal Chart and Huber Nodes Chart...

Notice how they both contain Saturn in Pisces in the 10th, and Neptune in Virgo in the 4th.  When planets are in the same houses in both charts, they indicate repeating karmic themes.

Here of course the themes are clear...the parental axis, the early home life, and career...and Noel has mentioned some about these in his Solar Arcs book...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on March 01, 2018, 04:00:21 AM
...also notice how the Sun-Jupiter conjunction in his 7th House in his natal chart was conjunct in the 12th House in his previous lives Nodes Chart...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Halina on March 01, 2018, 07:39:04 AM
      Noel's Age Point Progression, shown by the cross-hair circle, is at the Low Point of the 2nd House, squaring Uranus, the astrology planet in 11th which trines Sun-Jupiter in the 7th House.   "Putting astrology aside for the moment".
      Low Points bring times of introspection, of turning inwards.   Our activities tend to die away, our energies come to a state
of repose.
      If we employ this period to recruit our energies or reorient our thinking, we may learn to underststand ourselves better---
our inner motivation and approach to life.  (Bruno Huber)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on March 31, 2018, 12:05:31 AM
For those who may be somewhat curious as to how to integrate--rather than segregate--the Huber Method with Noel's astrology, this one's for you...

I mentioned this above on this thread somewhere that the first Huber book I would obtain--in order to integrate with Noel's techniques--would be Aspect Pattern Astrology: A New Holistic Horoscope Interpretation Method, by Bruno and Louis Huber, Michael Alexander Huber.

This Huber book contains detailed descriptions of over 45 different aspect pictures.  The "overall pattern of the aspects reveals the structure and basic motivations of an individual's consciousness" (from the back cover).

For those who have Noel Tyl's Guide to Astrological Consultation, I invite you to read or reread Noel's transcribed case study consultation with "Carol", from pages 183 to 211.

Notice Carol's Jupiter-North Node opposition.  Then notice the North Node's semi-sextile to Uranus, and Jupiter's semi-sextile to Venus.  Notice that Jupiter makes a quincunx to Uranus, and that the North Node makes a quincunx to Venus.  And that Uranus is trine to Venus.  In Huber language, this aspect pattern is called the "Stage."

The Stage is one of five rare quadrilateral aspect patterns.  This fact by itself emphasizes its importance.  These five quadrilaterals "highlight the strong qualities of the mutable cross.  They are loving types and need real human contact, sincere attention and non-obligatory, spontaneous communication...Despite their fixed quadrangular form, they need constant change in their lives" (p. 244).

"The Stage figure has a 'large' heart, but is still somehow aloof...In conversation, it is noticeable how these people strive for harmony.  They try to talk away differences and to create a unified picture.  The intersection of the quincunxes at the centre is like a double search for authenticity, love, and meaning that runs in opposite directions" (p. 245).

Imagine if Noel had known this going into this consultation!!!

 ;)

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on March 31, 2018, 12:30:49 AM
...for those who do not have this book by Noel, here is Carol's "Stage" pattern...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on March 31, 2018, 03:22:36 PM
"I often say to people that I have a right to be a slow learner but educable. What this means to me as a therapist is that I have only one thought - to help the people who come to me in pain to make changes in their lives. How I use my body, my voice, my eyes, my hands, in addition to the words and the way I use words, is my only tool. Since my goal is to make change possible for everyone, every someone offers a new challenge."

Virginia Satir

"How many details to we need to understand the situation and do our job?"

                                                                                                                                                   Noel Tyl
                                                                                                     Guide to Astrological Consultation p.183


What a fabulous example of how to handle the "murky polarity within the spectrum" (p. 185) or should I say "perfect"? The extraordinary references to "being in jail" reminded me of the chapter in Seven Storied Mountain, by Thomas Merton called Prisoner's Base. Tying this observation in with the "suicide threat" seems to suggest that suicide was indeed a real potential at any point with Neptune12-Sun. Perhaps the wide orb and support from Jupiter and Pluto mitigated that potential as more of an empty threat in Noels sense of the aspect AND Mars-Moon invigorates the entire system to such an extent that suicide would be rare in her case. Still, Mars too co-rules 12 and the Moon rules the 3rd, and calling attention to oneself through suicide 'communicates' the message in a dramatic way. Her comment would have raised more caution in me than it did in Noel.

I've never heard of Dr. Fred Newman (footnote 2 p.203) but this idea of "controlling the self" is an interesting one as it ties into addiction and in particular Jupiter in Scorpio (you must have some insight into this James). I notice something in the dialog that Noel keeps doing that is strongly Eriksonian... he's letting the client find their own way by ask leading questions paraphrasing Carol's own words. This is a powerful technique to mitigate illogical fallacies and challenge the automatic assumptions embedded in the language of the client. And then on the same page Noel uses a "disrupting" comment to break Carol's pattern. The process he's using here I think is closely related to what Grinder and Bandler wrote about in their book The Structure of Magic which is where the quote from Satir came from above, in the forward to that book.

The most remarkable "embedded command" which Noel "anchored" to Carol's conscious attention ALL WHILE "future pacing" her attention to something she might do numerous times each day was his reference to the refrigerator light. (And then of course Taylor Swift stole that line and used it effectively in her song All Too Well). [Hey before you judge me, my girls listen to T Swift. And I have to say after numerous exposures I've come to appreciate her crafty song writing and marketing genius. It's a matter of taste.]

I think Noel's line here that "objectivity is comprised of a smooth line of deduction" is a very important take away...(p. 209)

"Integrating" what Noel does with what the Hubers taught is an interesting idea. Each approach on their own I think stands alone and focuses on synthesis in their own way. I think Noel got there without the "details" provided by the quincuxes. They just weren't necessary because the client brought them with her and the "heart" of the matter was pierced through dialog, not through putting a magnifying glass on minor aspects. And, I am just not so sure that Noel didn't have the measure in his eye anyway. How could he not? As a young man he could take measure with the best of them and then some but at his 'stage' of development I think Noel found that the added value coming from the chart's minor measures was less meaningful than it was coming from the client themselves. Noel would have to tells us about this particular case but he's shared as much from his experience elsewhere and probably some 5,000 consultations. I think with your training you might agree James that the more powerful therapeutic modalities leave room for the client's expression, as in motivational interviewing. Noel tends to lead quite a bit and he does here, but that's how he stays efficient and closed this consultation out in 48 minutes. Wow! M.I., which is something I've toyed with I don't think is as suitable to this level of efficiency and the consultation could drag on, which is fine if you don't have anything else to do. But Noel told me just last year he held 50 consultations in 3 days with one of his student. At that rate one needs to be efficient.

I will continue to check out Huber whenever time permits. And appreciate the conversation you and Halina had here on the Forum. There is a certain intrigue and draw to this approach that I think is what pulled you and Halina in so excitedly. Halina's last chart is certainly on point and marvelously constructed. I would say the entire approach is what Bateson would call structurally "well-formed." You don't need anything else. The Huber Approach does not need to be "proved."  Noel's astrology too is well-formed. It stands tall like the man. Learning the Huber Method would certainly make one a more rounded astrologer among astrologers, like learning Jyotish. But "getting there" with a client probably requires less astrological detail and much more life experience combined with an interdisciplinary edge that hones the communication of knowledge more than the hoarding of that knowledge. Astrologers do like to show off what they know though... among themselves, and oddly seem to need to prove their way is a 'new and improved' way that is better than another. But you and I know that the type of therapy is much less important than the therapist who is actually doing the therapy.

Thanks so much for bringing Carol's case back into the Forum's conversation. That was an amazing example of Noel's "spaghetti sauce." And also thanks for the Huber stuff. If I ever get to a convention I would like to at least have a few of those books under my belt. Not sure I would use the material elsewhere, but one never knows and I will keep an open mind.

Ciao,

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on March 31, 2018, 11:37:57 PM
Thank you Tim,

Swiftly tailored!

 ;)

Many different views...many different tools...

 ;D

Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on April 02, 2018, 01:27:23 PM
Noel has a Provocative Figure Pattern, as outlined by his Pluto-Mercury opposition, Mercury-Mars square, Mars-Moon sextile, Mars-Pluto square, Moon-Mercury inconjunct, and Moon-Pluto semi-sextile.

"'Pro" means to be in favour of something, in this case to assert oneself in favour of a particular thing against existing resistance.  What is special is that this person authorizes himself and has the courage to bring things into the open that would otherwise remain hidden.  This quadrilateral wants to accomplish achievements provoked by thoughts...The motivation is planned will, which is why it might be difficult to evade what this figure wants.  As a listener, this person likes to interrupt with a question or to make a conjecture...All in all, this person seems to be keen on difficult tasks..." (from page 233 in Aspect Pattern Astrology, by the Hubers).
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Robynne on April 02, 2018, 11:35:39 PM
Agreed Jim. Pro as in pro active makes sense, as Capricorn is a Cardinal sign.
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on April 03, 2018, 12:50:42 AM
Another example..."If most aspects run approximately parallel to the horizon line of the horoscope, the consciousness is basically concerned with the ego and the 'you.'  Such a person is always oriented towards several other people and has trouble acting alone and independently.  He must have someone who is quite devoted to him and gives him reassurance or approval.  That also indicates a profession that brings him into contact with other people" (from page 111 in Aspect Pattern Astrology, by the Hubers).

Attached is a chart which illustrates the above...
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: Hudson Valley Astrologer on April 03, 2018, 05:21:18 AM
James,

Such 'fitting' examples. Thank you. If any of my suits should need altering you could be My Taylor.  ;)

Really appreciate the p.233 quote from APA...

HVA
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: James Williams on April 03, 2018, 06:28:28 AM
Thank you Tim.  :)
Title: Re: The Huber Method
Post by: bestgranny on April 06, 2018, 08:07:12 AM
my grandfathers family were very small  he was born 13/12/1884/ he had 2 children a boy grew to be 6ft 4" and my mother 5ft 8.1/2 " the boys was born sept 1912 and the girl (my mother) 26 dec. 1914. she was head a shoulders taller than all my friends mothers.