Noel Tyl

Astrology => Astrology of the Famous and Well Known => Topic started by: Pamela Young on January 09, 2020, 06:01:12 AM

Title: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 09, 2020, 06:01:12 AM
Wow!  Right on cue (eclipse tomorrow; exact Saturn-Pluto conjunction at 22 Capricorn on Sunday, January 12, 2020) all hell is breaking loose in the royal family, courtesy of Harry and Meghan.  Numerous astrologers predicted something momentous would happen at this time, but I doubt many people thought it would be this extreme.

Yesterday they made a surprise announcement via Instagram that they're going to be 'stepping back as senior royals' and making an effort to become independent financially.  They said they aim to split their time between the UK and North America [probably mostly Canada], but that they will remain members of the royal family, supporting the Queen in her endeavours, and will make their current home of Frogmore Cottage on the Windsor Castle estate their home base in Britain.

The royal family is said to have been totally blindsided by this; they are said to be 'hurt' and 'very disappointed.'  I read that Prince Harry had asked to meet with the Queen before the announcement was made, but that this was blocked by courtiers (?).  But the Queen is said to have let him know to please not make any public announcement before discussing it with his father, Prince Charles.  He did not do this, but went ahead with the bombshell announcement.

This is without precedent, really, though in their announcement they said there was precedent for it.  When?  When King Edward VIII stepped down as King to marry Wallis Simpson?  That's the only remotely comparable event that I can think of offhand.  And it won't be easy to accomplish what they want.  They seem to want to have their cake and eat it too: they want to remain officially members of the royal family, addressed as Your Royal Highness, etc., and retain the security that goes with being a member of the royal family, but they want the privacy that comes with not being a member of the royal family.  And they want to be able to earn more money than they get as members of the royal family, which I should have thought was considerable, but apparently they feel it's not enough?!

Personally I think this is really Meghan's doing.  I doubt it would ever have even crossed Harry's mind to start earning his own money instead of being supported by the British taxpayer as a member of the royal family.  Those who know them personally say Meghan wears the pants in that family, and this would seem to provide additional evidence supporting that.  She wants to be free from the intrusion of the press into her private life, which has been horrible, I'll grant you, and apparently feels that if she and Harry are no longer on the public purse the press will have no right to intrude on them the way it has up to now.  But apart from the fact that, from what their announcement said, they won't really be completely independent, financially or in any other way, if they're still said to be bona fide official members of the royal family, still living at Frogmore Cottage as their home (renovations to which were paid for by the British taxpayer to the tune of millions of dollars), still receiving security as though they were working royals, still receiving lots of money from Prince Charles' estate; apart from all that, the intrusion of the press into their private lives may not subside - just look how that worked out for Princess Diana after the divorce from Prince Charles. 

I wondered, looking at their son Archie's chart, about the parental signatures in his 10th house: Saturn and Pluto conjunct the MC, with Saturn exactly conjunct the Mean South Node.  Poor little guy, he'll really be feeling these current transits.  This doesn't look good; Meghan and Harry may have just set off something really major in British society, and not in a good way.  Good luck to them; I think they're going to need it.

As per usual, I'm having trouble posting charts on this website; actually, I'm having trouble posting at all.  Here are the links to the Astrodatabank profiles on Meghan, Harry and Archie; if you click on the little chart up on the right hand side of the page, it comes up much enlarged, and then click on 'with transits' to see the current situation.  There's no option to show progressions or solar arcs, but it's still very informative.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Meghan,_Duchess_of_Sussex

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Harry,_Duke_of_Sussex

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Archie,_Mountbatten-Windsor

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 09, 2020, 08:10:03 AM

This is without precedent, really, though in their announcement they said there was precedent for it.  When?  When King Edward VIII stepped down as King to marry Wallis Simpson?  That's the only remotely comparable event that I can think of offhand. 


Just realized who provided the more recent precedent: Harry's late mother, Princess Diana.  And look what happened to her!
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Dean B on January 09, 2020, 09:50:28 PM
Hello Pamela and Forum:

The Saturn-Pluto conjunction (exact on Jan. 12, 2020) is on Meghan Markle’s DSC (24-Cap-17) so it affects her via her husband, Prince Harry.

Several months ago, I wrote that this time could provoke a “hardship crisis” for the couple and a “supreme test”.

And, given that her natal Saturn is conjunct the Moon and IC and Pluto is in the 4th the move to a new home outside of Britain is part of the "new reality".

Her 4th is also the 10th of her DSC…her husband’s status…so Harry stands to lose a lot.

Commentators on the situation have been saying that the couple want their cake and eat it too…stay Royal with all the perks while also living abroad and doing what they want.

However, astrologer Ray Merriman has described Saturn-Pluto as “win-lose to an extreme”…one side is victorious and the other side utterly defeated in a zero-sum face-off to the death.

So, who gets their way in this battle…we shall see...but it doesn't seem like a win-win compromise is possible.

Fascinatingly, the Queen, herself, has Tr. Saturn-Pluto on her ASC and has had to “restructure” her son Andrew out of his role…and now this with Harry. She must feel like she's losing her grip on the institution she reigns over.

Also, as we mourn the recent passing of Noel Tyl, I am reminded of his long-standing prediction that Charles will never be King.

Interesting times, for sure.

Regards,
Dean B.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Dean B on January 09, 2020, 11:06:18 PM
Part II:

I’ve got to say a few quick things about Harry:

1) SP Moon (8-Virgo) exactly touching his natal Mercury-Uranus square…a sudden, impulsive, radical decision.

2) SP Mars (11-Capricorn) exactly on his ASC; Mars rules the 3rd…motivated to individuate; anger and frustration; conflict with a sibling (William).

3) Tr. Saturn square to natal Pluto (=MC, r. ASC) coming this year…serious threat of loss and status; defeated.

Regards,
Dean B.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 10, 2020, 07:28:27 AM
Hi Dean,

Thank you so much for your thoughts on this situation.  You certainly were bang on in what you said some months back, about Harry and Meghan facing a 'hardship crisis' and 'supreme test'; truer words were never spoken.  I'm very worried about it, and about the eventual consequences for Harry and Archie; I'm very much afraid poor Harry has no idea what he may have started. 

For one thing, the financial ramifications are said to be far more complicated than Harry and Meghan may have taken into consideration.  If they live abroad for a considerable portion of each year, especially if it were to be in the USA, where Meghan is a citizen, they may open themselves up to having to pay tax there as well as in Britain; it could be ruinous financially.  If they live in Canada, of which the Queen is technically head, if they remain royals they may be entitled to be supported by the Canadian taxpayer, which people may feel is not fair, if they are no longer 'really' royals.  And they plan to start earning income by selling all kinds of things emblazoned with the sussexroyal logo from their new website, t-shirts, trinkets, photos, all kinds of things.  But  royals are not supposed to earn any income independently beyond what they receive from the taxpayer; they can't be part of the royal family if they're going to do that!  They really do seem to want to have their cake and eat it too, and I don't think that will be possible; basically they want to still have all the benefits of being royals without subjecting themselves to the down side.

I do think it's Meghan who is driving this, with Harry just giving her whatever she wants.  He must know, if he thought about it, that this is crazy and won't work.  Meghan is acting rather like a snowflake, frankly.  I'm surprised at her; I had thought she knew what she was getting into, and was willing to make the required tradeoff: in return for marrying into the royal family, and thus acquiring a life of wealth, fame, privilege and power, she would give up personal privacy and subject herself to continual malicious gossip and out and out lies.  That's what it's like for anyone who marries into the British royal family, not just her.  It was done to Kate and her family, and she's supposed to be Queen eventually.  It's the reason Harry's former serious girlfriends eventually broke up with him - they realized they couldn't take the heat, so they got out of the kitchen.  Meghan apparently assumed it wouldn't happen to her. 

Sorry for the lack of astrology in this post, but I think you've covered everything, Dean.  I'm just really worried about the future consequences for the whole royal family, for the institution, and for Great Britain itself.  Coupled with Brexit, I just don't know what's going to happen in that country.  I have a friend there who has told me stories for years, ever more alarming, that have had me seriously wondering how long things could continue as is; I worry about something like a French Revolution happening.  Once these things start, they tend to get out of control and the crazies take over.  Meghan better look out; she could end up being very sorry that she ever married Harry.  You know what they say: be careful what you wish for - you may get it.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Alice Portman on January 10, 2020, 05:11:19 PM
Hi Pamela

People seem to be blaming Meghan for this descision - and she may have supported it, but I think it is all Prince Harry.

A few years ago, over on the Astrologers Community forum, a chart identical to that of Prince Harry's appeared with the poster asking what sort of career would be suitable.  I have always thought that Prince Harry, with his OOB Mars, found his position difficult and unsatisfying.

I am somewhat confounded by dislike of Meghan by the press and the publicity they gave to her horrible virago of a sister.  I put it down to a form of racism, but then I remembered what Kate went through before she married William and the dreadful public slanders of Charles.  It seems as though the British Press just loves to bully and abuse people.  Nowdays I don't believe anything at all they say.  I really don't think the royal family - or anyone at all - should have to put up with this kind of abuse and am glad Harry is taking them to task.

Prince Harry has this current Mercury-Ceres-Saturn-Pluto-lunar eclipse trine his Virgo Sun and Taurus Moon making a midpoint with his lights from his first house, this was bound to have a considerable effect in his life and it is interesting that it has manifested in this way, particularly as Pluto is the modern ruler of his Midheaven.  The eclipse certainly triggered him to make his descision known to the public.  Romour has it that when he saw no photograph of himself and Meghan displayed at the Queen's Christmas talk he was very upset and then, when the courtiers cancelled his appointment with the Queen, it was the last straw.

I don't think they will have any problems being completely independent financially, but I don't think it needs to come to that  - after all Harry is the son of the future King and I am sure they can work out some kind of ambassadorial/business role for this couple.

Both their composite and Davison charts show more to come:  Look at the current conjunction-eclipse making a square to the Davison Vertex and trine to Davison Chiron.   Then Saturn, followed by Pluto, trigger the Moon-Midheaven this year and next.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Robynne on January 10, 2020, 08:46:19 PM
Just another thought here,

As Harry and Meghan are both parents now, if they divide their time between England and North America/Canada, does that mean that Archie and subsequent children could in the future apply for dual citizenship, reflecting both of their parents ancestry?

Decisions they might make as a couple, have possibly been altered when they take children into consideration.

Agreed on previous post Alice, the tabloids can be brutal, gossip sells.

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: bjorkstrand on January 10, 2020, 09:01:58 PM
her sun squares his moon
sooner or later he is going to crack. divorce time
any predictions when?
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Robynne on January 11, 2020, 01:51:41 AM
bjorkstrand,

I know you like to play devils advocate, but that is irresponsible astrology. Don't ruin the thread.

Just for the record, my husband and I had Sun square Moon, and it lasted for 34 years, even though there were a lot of adjustments to be had between a Pisces Sun and Sagittarian Moon in our outlook. Don't be a joy kill, they need all the happiness they can get. I'm predicting they will have a long and happy marriage. ;D
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 11, 2020, 05:51:20 AM
Hi Pamela

People seem to be blaming Meghan for this descision - and she may have supported it, but I think it is all Prince Harry.

A few years ago, over on the Astrologers Community forum, a chart identical to that of Prince Harry's appeared with the poster asking what sort of career would be suitable.  I have always thought that Prince Harry, with his OOB Mars, found his position difficult and unsatisfying.

I am somewhat confounded by dislike of Meghan by the press and the publicity they gave to her horrible virago of a sister.  I put it down to a form of racism, but then I remembered what Kate went through before she married William and the dreadful public slanders of Charles.  It seems as though the British Press just loves to bully and abuse people.  Nowdays I don't believe anything at all they say.  I really don't think the royal family - or anyone at all - should have to put up with this kind of abuse and am glad Harry is taking them to task.

Prince Harry has this current Mercury-Ceres-Saturn-Pluto-lunar eclipse trine his Virgo Sun and Taurus Moon making a midpoint with his lights from his first house, this was bound to have a considerable effect in his life and it is interesting that it has manifested in this way, particularly as Pluto is the modern ruler of his Midheaven.  The eclipse certainly triggered him to make his descision known to the public.  Romour has it that when he saw no photograph of himself and Meghan displayed at the Queen's Christmas talk he was very upset and then, when the courtiers cancelled his appointment with the Queen, it was the last straw.

I don't think they will have any problems being completely independent financially, but I don't think it needs to come to that  - after all Harry is the son of the future King and I am sure they can work out some kind of ambassadorial/business role for this couple.

Both their composite and Davison charts show more to come:  Look at the current conjunction-eclipse making a square to the Davison Vertex and trine to Davison Chiron.   Then Saturn, followed by Pluto, trigger the Moon-Midheaven this year and next.

Hi Alice,

How nice to see you on the forum again.  I've been thinking of you, with what's going on in Australia (i.e., the devastating fires) and hoping you're okay.

Thank you very much for your comments, and the Davison chart.  I hadn't looked at that, and it is very interesting to see the transits made to it by the eclipse, and more to come with transiting Saturn and Pluto.  Astrology can be so literal sometimes; it shouldn't surprise me, but I never get over it.

I agree with you about the toxicity of the British press.  They go after everyone, and use whatever ammunition they can against the person they're targeting.  With Meghan being of mixed race, they were getting racist.  But with Kate they basically called her low class; they made fun of her family origins and her mother's manners, and essentially said Kate was not good enough to become part of the royal family, much less the future Queen.  They always use whatever is at hand to try to bring people down.  I don't understand it.

When Harry first started dating Meghan, I was quite favourably impressed by her; I was already aware of her as an actress on the show Suits, which was filmed in Toronto.  She lived in what used to be my old stomping ground, back when I spent a lot of time in Toronto.  It was when I read an interview with her former best friend in Los Angeles that I started having second thoughts about her.  She had known her ex-best friend since they were very little kids; the friend had been the maid of honour at her first wedding, and she knew Meghan very well.  She was friends with Meghan's first husband as well as with Meghan, and felt Meghan had treated him very poorly.  She said Meghan totally changed after she achieved fame on Suits; she said she became a different person - I remember she said there was Meghan before fame, and Meghan after fame.  The latter Meghan dropped her former friends, husband included, and seemed to feel she was now too good and too important to mix with riffraff like them.  She said she used people to get ahead, and once she couldn't get anything further from the relationship, she dropped them, just cut them out of her life very coldly.  She basically said she was a social climber.  She also said very specifically that Meghan had always been interested in the royal family, and that she had talked of wanting to go to London to try and meet them, even when she was still married to her first husband.  She (the former best friend) said she wasn't surprised at all when she heard that Meghan was dating Prince Harry.

 Now, this friend was understandably bitter; she felt used, and she was angry about the way Meghan had treated her first husband.  Meghan had once said that this was the man with whom she wanted to have children; she also said that she didn't know what she'd do if anything ever happened to him.  Yet she dropped him like a hot potato when he was no longer of any use to her.  The friend felt, looking back, that Meghan had used him to further her career, and once she was well established in her career in Toronto and didn't need him any more, she seemed to feel he was holding her back, and divorced him so fast he didn't know what hit him.  The friend felt she'd never really known Meghan, and harbours no very friendly feelings towards her today. 

Of course, I don't know this woman, and have to assume that she was telling the truth in everything she said.  But looking at Meghan's chart after reading that interview, I did see things differently than before; Meghan's chart had a number of indications that the friend's account could be accurate, indications which I had willfully ignored before, because I wanted Meghan to be the nice, good person I had originally assumed she was.  I'm always a sucker for a fairy tale romance, and I wanted Meghan to be worthy of becoming that fairy tale princess.  I've written about all this in previous posts on this forum, a couple of years back.  I even put a link to the interview with Meghan's former best friend; I'm not going to go looking for it, but it's on this forum somewhere if anyone wants to read it.

I have to laugh, actually, when I go back and read some of those old posts of mine about Meghan and Harry.  I remember saying, looking at the transits, that things after their wedding were going to get VERY difficult for both of them; I forget my exact wording, but the last time I read it I laughed - little did I know how bad it would get.  It would be nice if making this 'transition' actually does make things easier for them, so they can enjoy their life together.  But I don't know ... it's not looking good.

 
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 11, 2020, 05:58:35 AM
Just another thought here,

As Harry and Meghan are both parents now, if they divide their time between England and North America/Canada, does that mean that Archie and subsequent children could in the future apply for dual citizenship, reflecting both of their parents ancestry?

Decisions they might make as a couple, have possibly been altered when they take children into consideration.

Agreed on previous post Alice, the tabloids can be brutal, gossip sells.

Hi Robynne,

I don't know what the law is in the States; it may be that Archie is already a citizen of the States, since his mother is.  But I think the plan at present is for the family to split their time between the UK and Canada, rather than the States.

 Neither Harry nor Meghan is a Canadian citizen.  I read that Harry is entitled to spend six months of every year in Canada, if he wishes, but for longer than that he would have to apply for a visa, like everyone else.  If they wish their son to have Canadian citizenship, they can always go through the process that everyone goes through to achieve that.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 11, 2020, 06:05:21 AM
her sun squares his moon
sooner or later he is going to crack. divorce time
any predictions when?

Hi Jim,

Divorce time?!  Come now, I think that's premature!  As Robynne noted in the post below yours, simply having a Sun-Moon square in a couple's synastry is not enough to make a relationship unworkable.  It has long been noted that the synastry between Harry and Meghan is not what would have been considered really good for a long term relationship like marriage, but now that they are in fact married, and have a child, I think Meghan is more likely to stick with it that she otherwise might have been.  She's a mother now, and sharing a child with Harry would I think strengthen the bonds between the couple.  Whatever Meghan's true feelings towards Harry may have been when she met him, when she married him, I think now she may be feeling that they are a true family.  Hopefully that will help them withstand the slings and arrows thrown at them now and in the future.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: pdw on January 11, 2020, 07:01:57 AM
Pamela and All, thanks for the excellent coverage here.

I’m scratching my head about these two…After the grand Royal wedding and sincere-looking Royal participation since, now they don’t want to do the Royal thing yet they want to capitalize on it. And I certainly see a transit potential fit for focus on resourceful capitalizing and creating wealth (with Pluto, Saturn, and Jupiter all in Capricorn). As well as the possibility of a separation or divorce, literally or figuratively, with their “down time” over the holidays now looking like a planned trial separation leading up to an official break-up with the Firm and the start of divorce proceedings, so to speak.

Although I understand they may have been trying to reassure all that they were going to work for a living and not be a financial drain, I wonder if their upfront mention of money – becoming financially independent – may be an off-putting misstep, unfavorably drawing attention to their ‘rich’ lifestyle and suggesting their primary focus will be on using their privilege to acquire wealth. Well that kind of money-centric image is not so flattering… It’s somewhat laughable to me that they even mentioned money since Harry inherited millions from Diana, and I consider it almost a forgone conclusion that these two will be able to make lots of money. Heck, I’d advise the Palace to negotiate a percentage take from SussexRoyal proceeds – a Royalty fee, if you will :) – and wish them well. Because I doubt their business plan is limited to knick knack logo sales – what about a SussexRoyal Production company creating content (documentaries, shows, movies) related to their personal causes and social interests? I haven’t read about such a thing yet but Harry and Meghan can rustle up star power in front of the camera as well as behind it, I imagine. Meghan may be especially interested in this kind of creative control with her natal 4th House Pluto in Libra, and ruling her 5th House. Plus she has a background and contacts in TV, and a network of celebrity friends in the entertainment industry. Including Oprah, who could be a powerful mentor and customer of SussexRoyal content for her TV network, OWN. Whew, think I’m getting carried away here…

Re: Meghan – Not on topic but I wonder if postpartum depression may have been part of her experience that intensified a trend toward ‘stepping back’ (withdrawal)… I feel for new moms in that situation and she actually has associated vulnerability and “struggle” with becoming a mother, in this link for example - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50102858.

Baby Archie was born May 6, with T Pluto-Saturn in Meghan’s 6th House (suggesting possible stress/strain on physical or mental health), and both squaring her natal 4th House Pluto, perhaps increasing personal sensitivity, tension, and demands related to children or childbirth (Pluto rules her 5th House). Additionally transiting Jupiter was retrograde and conjunct her natal Neptune adding the possibility of a highly sensitized transition, with an influx or overload of emotions, mixed feelings, and vulnerability during the retrograde. T Jupiter’s return to direct motion in August, in Meghan’s 5th House and trine her Sun, almost perfectly coincides with a common uplifting, travel-friendly Jupiter experience – and the Sussex grand get-away vacations to Ibiza and Nice. 

Re: Harry – Adding to Dean’s points:

1) SP Moon (8-Virgo) exactly touching his natal Mercury-Uranus square…a sudden, impulsive, radical decision.

Harry’s resourceful natal Virgo Mercury, in his 8th House, is further emphasized now with SA Pluto=Mercury in orb, potentially intensifying or magnifying current transit contacts. Which include: Transiting Mars activating (squaring) his Mercury, a Sagittarius-Virgo pairing reflecting the start of practical expansion and personal adjustment, perhaps; while his natal Mercury is receiving a trine from transiting Uranus suggesting Taurus-Virgo support for tangibly materializing and working on new ideas, interests, invention or innovation.

3) Tr. Saturn square to natal Pluto (=MC, r. ASC) coming this year…serious threat of loss and status; defeated.

The other possibility mentioned for Saturn-Pluto combinations, in S&C, is hard, hard work.


Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: bjorkstrand on January 11, 2020, 10:06:11 AM
her sun squares his moon
sooner or later he is going to crack. divorce time
any predictions when?

Hi Jim,

Divorce time?!  Come now, I think that's premature!  As Robynne noted in the post below yours, simply having a Sun-Moon square in a couple's synastry is not enough to make a relationship unworkable.  It has long been noted that the synastry between Harry and Meghan is not what would have been considered really good for a long term relationship like marriage, but now that they are in fact married, and have a child, I think Meghan is more likely to stick with it that she otherwise might have been.  She's a mother now, and sharing a child with Harry would I think strengthen the bonds between the couple.  Whatever Meghan's true feelings towards Harry may have been when she met him, when she married him, I think now she may be feeling that they are a true family.  Hopefully that will help them withstand the slings and arrows thrown at them now and in the future.

Pamela
U don't know what it's like to have sun square moon. i do. My dad's sun squared my moon. It may take 7 years but they'll get divorced. Harry the idiot didn't check out an astrologer. Too bad.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 11, 2020, 10:11:58 AM
Hi pdw,

Thanks very much for your thoughts on this.  You have some great ideas for how Harry and Meghan can make money; maybe they should hire you!

I do wonder if you're right about Meghan having experienced postpartum depression.  Hormonally childbirth can knock anyone for a loop, and in her case, given that she apparently received flack from the press for not having regained her pre-pregnancy figure immediately, her self-esteem may have taken a hit.  Her physical appearance is very important to her, and she's always worked hard at staying fit and in shape.  She was always cast as the 'hot girl', and while she used to complain about being typecast, she may find it hard to cope with not being seen as beautiful and sexy.  That was who she was, the 'hot girl.'

I hope she'll be okay, and I hope Harry will be okay.   I hope all this works out for the best, in the end.  I don't know that it will, but I'm hoping.  I read that a lot of people in the UK feel strongly that if the couple 'step back' from being senior royals, that they should not be receiving financial support from the state in any way.  If they're going to earn their own income, then that should be it - no subsidies of any kind.  If subsidies are allowed, as Harry seems to be requesting, there may be storms ahead.   
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 11, 2020, 10:18:03 AM
her sun squares his moon
sooner or later he is going to crack. divorce time
any predictions when?

Hi Jim,

Divorce time?!  Come now, I think that's premature!  As Robynne noted in the post below yours, simply having a Sun-Moon square in a couple's synastry is not enough to make a relationship unworkable.  It has long been noted that the synastry between Harry and Meghan is not what would have been considered really good for a long term relationship like marriage, but now that they are in fact married, and have a child, I think Meghan is more likely to stick with it that she otherwise might have been.  She's a mother now, and sharing a child with Harry would I think strengthen the bonds between the couple.  Whatever Meghan's true feelings towards Harry may have been when she met him, when she married him, I think now she may be feeling that they are a true family.  Hopefully that will help them withstand the slings and arrows thrown at them now and in the future.

Pamela
U don't know what it's like to have sun square moon. i do. My dad's sun squared my moon. It may take 7 years but they'll get divorced. Harry the idiot didn't check out an astrologer. Too bad.

Well Jim, what can I say?  I hope you're wrong.  It's true that good Sun-Moon synastry is one of the best predictors of a healthy, lasting relationship; I guess it follows that bad Sun-Moon synastry is not what one would wish for, but as Robynne pointed out with her own example, it doesn't have to mean the relationship will fail, just that there will be challenges.  I think it probably depends on other factors in the synastry.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: In Stitches on January 11, 2020, 11:41:19 AM
William and Kate are sun in Cancer and Capricorn so I think they are being hit by the Saturn-Pluto conjunction in Capricorn and the lunar eclipse on Friday. This is probably more about them receiving karma for control and status or even gaining control. Kate has been doing a lot of publicity it seems to compete with Megan's pizzazz. Don't know where Neptune is in relation to Harry's son but if it's opposing this would make him fuzzy headed and wanting to escape from any relationship challenges.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Dean B on January 12, 2020, 04:34:51 AM
Hello Forum:

Consider Harry's MC-IC axis; Saturn (r. ASC); Moon (in 4, r. DSC)...they are all in Taurus or Scorpio.

As Tr. Uranus hits all of these points/planets over the next few years can we make a reasonable forecast that his personal, marital, family, social status will fracture?

I think a breaking point can be expected at that time.

Dean B.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 12, 2020, 05:10:03 AM
Hi In Stitches,

In William's case, his Sun is at 0º Cancer and his Moon is at 4º Cancer, so I think he probably felt the Solar Eclipse (at 4º Capricorn), back on December 26, more strongly than the Lunar one on Friday, at 19º Cancer (on January 10).  With his Sun and Moon so close to each other and both in the 7th house, along with the Mean North Node at 14º Cancer, I think the first eclipse set off a series of events which just continued into the second eclipse.  With it being his 7th house that was affected, this could have had to do with his relationship with his wife, Kate Middleton; they are said to have been having difficulties because of her having learned of his having had an affair with her erstwhile best friend (!!). No idea if that's true, but if it is it would certainly make for a, shall we say, interesting Christmas period.  However, his stellium of Libra planets is in the 9th house (using Placidus); thus his Mars at 9º, Saturn at 15º, and Pluto at 24º Libra, would have been affected by both eclipses.  Mars rules his 3rd house (communication; siblings), and this latest eclipse would mostly involve talks with and about his brother Harry, and his desired move away from the UK.  With the Lunar Eclipse having squared his Saturn/Pluto midpoint, one may assume that the talks have been, shall we say, fraught.  (Perhaps ditto with his wife; hope not.)

Now with Kate, her Sun being at 19º Capricorn and her Moon at 18º Cancer, it does look like she will have been more affected by this most recent eclipse.  If the 7 p.m. birth time given for her in AstroDatabank is correct, her stellium of Libra planets (Mars at 10º, Saturn at 15º and Pluto at 26º Libra) is in the 3rd house, thus accenting communication again.  This birth time puts her Sun in the 5th house technically, but just shy of the 6th house cusp; I'd read it as being a 6th house planet, thus indicating that the lunar eclipse was highlighting issues of duty and service, and given the squares to the 3rd house planets, in a challenging way.  She also has her Mean North Node at 22º Cancer, thus definitely in the 12th house (secrets; despair) while being closely conjunct her Moon and opposing her Sun.  Poor girl.

Now, In Stitches, you had me confused for a bit there where you said, 'Don't know where Neptune is in relation to Harry's son but if it's opposing this would make him fuzzy headed and wanting to escape from any relationship challenges.'  But then I realized you must have meant, 'Harry's Sun', not son.  Spelling!  Harry's Sun is at 22º56' Virgo, and transiting Neptune is at 16º Pisces, so the transit is technically an opposition but not particularly close.  With his Ascendant being at 11º21' Capricorn, the two eclipses bracketed his relationship axis, with his Venus (ruling love and relationships, also money, at 17º42' Libra) being squared by the Lunar Eclipse, and his Moon (at 21º20' Taurus, ruling his marriage and in the 4th house of home and family) being trined.  His Venus is technically in the 8th house (transformation), but just shy of the 9th house (long distance travel and communication; foreign lands).  So, this latest eclipse would involve talks about transforming his and his wife's relationship with the public, involving a move to a foreign land (and/or other people's money! - 8th house.)
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 12, 2020, 05:11:47 AM
Hello Forum:

Consider Harry's MC-IC axis; Saturn (r. ASC); Moon (in 4, r. DSC)...they are all in Taurus or Scorpio.

As Tr. Uranus hits all of these points/planets over the next few years can we make a reasonable forecast that his personal, marital, family, social status will fracture?

I think a breaking point can be expected at that time.

Dean B.


Hi Dean,

Good point about Harry's Taurus and Scorpio positions; I'm sure you're right.

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Dean B on January 12, 2020, 06:40:28 AM
Hi Pam / Forum.

There is a fascinating article in The Daily Mail written by Meghan's former business partner.

In it, she describes MM as extremely driven and business-oriented with a genius for marketing.

We thus notice in her chart the Moon-Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in the 3rd sextile Mercury...marketing/communication; a strategic business thinker; ambitious, focused, with a real sense of purpose.

There's nothing wrong with any of that...BUT it conflicts with absolutely everything that being a royal stands for.

And, so,  I come back to my original comment upthread, that I cannot see how this gets worked out to everyone's mutual satisfaction over the long term. She is simply in the wrong job.

Tr. Saturn and Pluto will grind their way over her DSC and into her 7th house of marriage for some time to come. Concurrently, they will grind their way through his 1st house. Maybe with Tr. Jupiter joining in they will see it initially as an adventure as they leave the UK in 2020.

Ultimately, these two planets are brutal in their transformative impact...with her, however, they are rising up to the MC; with him, they are descending to his IC nadir.

They are going in two different directions, like the plot from A Star is Born, though initially it seems they are on the same page.

It is not far-fetched to conclude that she will emerge from this stronger than ever and he'll be crushed...just as Merriman said with Saturn-Pluto, "one side wins and the other loses."

Dean B.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 12, 2020, 08:26:51 AM

 I cannot see how this gets worked out to everyone's mutual satisfaction over the long term. She is simply in the wrong job.


I agree, Dean.  And I'm getting really worried; I've just been reading two articles about this whole situation, one about the 'dire' tax implications of the couple's moving to Canada, and one about the efforts to resolve things so that everyone can win.  What concerns me is that the whole royal family, and the Queen in particular, are very worried about Harry; they apparently feel he is in a fragile mental state and, reading between the lines, I gather they're afraid he may have a nervous breakdown eventually if, as they fear, Meghan ends up leaving him and taking Archie with her.  I hadn't realized things were that bad; I must have a closer look at his chart.

The feeling is (and I may have read this in still another article) that Meghan (sorry, Alice!) basically wants out of the royal family; she feels she made a mistake, didn't know what she was getting into, and isn't willing to continue putting up with it all for the rest of her life.  Also, she doesn't want her son brought up in the royal family and subjected to all that is entailed.  She wants to stay in the spotlight, be famous and rich and a 'princess', but she doesn't want to have to do the jobs that normally go with it.  Harry is madly in love and is accordingly seeing things her way; however, it just may not be possible for them to remain nominally royals, with their titles, full security, their British home (Frogmore Cottage), and all the money they receive from Harry's father Prince Charles every year - not if they want to move to Canada (or wherever) and lead their own lives, totally apart from the royal family, including running their careers as if they were completely independent of any rules governing the behaviour of the royals (financial, etc.). The tax consequences alone will be ruinous.

Here's the link to the two articles; the second is below the first.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7876671/Harry-Meghan-confronted-dire-ta x-impact-abandoning-royal-family.html

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Francine on January 12, 2020, 08:29:18 AM
Very interesting thread. My prediction is they will divorce by 2022 and probably separate before that. Attached is Harry’s 2022 solar return set for London which shows the solar return Mars at 13 Gemini squaring Meghan’s natal Venus of 13 Virgo which is the SR Venus.. At the end of that year, Meghan’s progressed moon (which I use for timing of events) is at the Aries point and Harry’s progressed moon is conjunct her Pluto. I have experience with this exact scenario in a breakup. As always, time will tell.

Sorry,,chart would not attach.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Halina on January 12, 2020, 09:11:24 AM
       Interesting Projections Francine......I added 4 wheels so that we can see all your interconnections 'tween the two.
Everything seems correct except the "Harry's Prog Moon conj her natal Pluto" which may happen later...say in 2023.
      I have added a couple more conjunctions in blue for 2022 between their charts.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Francine on January 12, 2020, 10:17:52 AM
Hi Halina, I think the confusion is that Harry’s progressed moon at 18 Virgo in your chart is for September 2020. Around Dec 12th 2022 his progress Moon will be almost exactly conjunct her Pluto at 21 Libra. Also his Solar Arc Venus will be less than a degree from conjuncting her natal Uranus at 26 Scorpio. Also just noticed his SA Mars is 24 Cap conjunct her descendant at that time.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 12, 2020, 10:31:45 AM
Very interesting thread. My prediction is they will divorce by 2022 and probably separate before that. Attached is Harry’s 2022 solar return set for London which shows the solar return Mars at 13 Gemini squaring Meghan’s natal Venus of 13 Virgo which is the SR Venus.. At the end of that year, Meghan’s progressed moon (which I use for timing of events) is at the Aries point and Harry’s progressed moon is conjunct her Pluto. I have experience with this exact scenario in a breakup. As always, time will tell.

Sorry,,chart would not attach.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Francine.  I sure hope you’re wrong, though.

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 12, 2020, 10:32:43 AM
Halina, thank you for the charts.

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: SGFoxe on January 12, 2020, 11:51:25 AM
rather that "stepping back" i think one of them will step out on the other ... i'd wager harry
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 12, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
You think Harry will see another woman behind Meghan’s back?  Really?!  Do you have astrological reasons for thinking that?

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Robynne on January 12, 2020, 02:24:24 PM
Thanks for providing the link from the Daily Mail article Pam.

Now if you were to assess the situation from that photograph of Harry and Meghan alone, you would see a strongly united couple holding hands and presenting a united front. Harry looks concerned, but please note that his hand is clasped on top of hers, indicating he is the man in charge and in control of the situation.

Another thought, is that with what happened to his Mother, Princess Diana, and his own exposure being in the royal family for all of his lifetime, that in protection of his own family and child he is making the conscious decision to step back and remove themselves from that kind of constant exposure. Wouldn't you if you'd had a lifetime of having every movement analysed and very little privacy?.

From what I have seen, Canada are not as in to Royalty worshipping as the United States are, so maybe there is an opportunity to have some semblance of a normal life.

Maybe just a Piscean perspective, but thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in anyway.  ;D

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 12, 2020, 03:44:51 PM
Hi Robynne,

I can't disagree with anything you said; in that photo the couple does look united, and Harry does look like he's in charge and in control of the situation.  I can certainly understand Harry wanting to protect his family.

I used to think Meghan was perfect for the job she had taken on by virtue of who she had married, and I thought she, as a very modern, mixed race woman, might transform the monarchy into a more relevant institution in modern Britain, an institution that would really be a force for good in society.  But it seems she doesn't want the job, even if she's good at it, as she decidedly is.  It's a shame.

I just hope things will turn out well.  But looking at the upcoming transits, I don't know that they will, I really don't.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 13, 2020, 06:46:07 AM
Well, now I've heard everything: it seems that back in July of 2019 Harry and Meghan attended the London premiere of The Lion King, at which Harry took the opportunity to speak to Disney CEO Bob Iger; he told him that Meghan does voiceover work, and basically asked him to hire her(!!). Video footage exists of this conversation.  Moreover, Harry had reportedly skipped a military engagement to attend this premiere with Meghan.  And now it's being reported that Meghan has in fact done a voiceover for Disney;   it was done late in 2019, and the money she earns for it will be donated to the Elephants Without Borders charity.

https://etcanada.com/news/572575/duchess-meghan-reportedly-signs-deal-with-disney/

Obviously the couple's so-called 'bombshell announcement' about stepping back as senior royals has been in the works for quite a while.  The question is, is Harry doing this because it's what Meghan wants, and he wants to keep her happy?  Or is it as Alice said some posts back, that Harry is the one who wants to quit being a royal and lead a normal life?  Because there's no way that making such a request of the Disney CEO would be considered proper behaviour for a royal; you can see in the video that Bob Iger was very taken aback, caught completely off guard. 

I think maybe it's because of this kind of behaviour that the Queen and others in the royal family are thinking that Harry is mentally unstable, in a 'fragile' state, as they put it.  Harry is considered by them to be behaving very irresponsibly, and in ways that he knows full well are just not acceptable for a member of the royal family.   It's said his behaviour has had a very negative impact on his relationship with the Queen; he's always been one of her favourite grandsons and they used to have a great relationship, but now she feels betrayed by him and that she can't trust him to conduct himself as he should.  This after she had done everything possible to welcome Meghan into the family.

They say Harry, who used to be quite a happy-go-lucky sort, is now often in a bad mood.  This is not what you'd expect from someone who is newly married to someone they're madly in love with, and with a new baby son to boot.  I'm wondering if the reason he's so grumpy so much of the time is because he's always trying to please Meghan, but that involves doing things he knows full well they shouldn't be doing.  The Palace feels that Harry is acting like a teenager, with no thought for anyone but himself and his own desires, regardless of any negative impact that it will have on others.  It makes me wonder if his emotional development was arrested when his mother Diana was killed; if so, he may well actually be a teenager, emotionally.  What a mess.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/01/prince-harry-the-queen-relationship-problems/

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: pdw on January 13, 2020, 08:29:11 AM
Pamela, I’ve had some of those very thoughts about the possibility of immaturity, irresponsibility, or misunderstanding related to transiting Neptune in Pisces, in Harry’s 2nd House - sensitizing creativity or uncertainty connected to self-worth - and squaring Harry’s natal freedom-loving Sagittarius Mars - positively “making waves effectively”, to borrow from Noel, or negatively, hastily disregarding others. 

Feeling at sea, adrift, or losing focus comes to mind with this contact. Perhaps with increased vulnerabiliy or receptivity to inspiration or imagination, that creates an individual course change.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Halina on January 13, 2020, 11:30:50 AM
        I don't see any signs of them splitting.   Looking at Markle's Age Progression chart, her natal Uranus at 25Scorpio and natal Pluto at 22Libra won't be activated by the Age Point for quite a while.    Age Point, now, is in her 7th, at 4Aq,
House of Partnerships making aspects to Node(union), Sun, Mercury and another aspect to Moon, Jupiter, Saturn.
     Below is her Age Progression chart.   Age Progression dial moves 6 degrees per sign or 5 degrees per year.
Looking at Harry's Age Progression chart, his Age dial is in the 7th, partnership, at 8Pisces and won't aspect his natal Uranus at 26Scorpio,
nor will the Age Point aspect his natal Pluto, 24Libra for a loog, long time,   Presently the only aspect of his Age Point is to his natal Mars, ruler 9th, desire to relocate in foreign land.   Mars is in the 12th, behind the scenes activity concerning
the Monarchy, 12th in Leo.
    Also noticed, Markle's Age Pt is aspecting her natal Jupiter, the desire to travel, relocate.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: bjorkstrand on January 13, 2020, 11:21:26 PM
when will people grow up. U don't need royalty.
and i was James I
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Dean B on January 14, 2020, 03:15:16 AM
Pam, my view:

Meghan sees herself (Moon ruling ASC) in business partnership with her husband (conjunct Saturn ruling DSC) making huge gains (conjunct Jupiter) marketing themselves and merchandise (in 3rd).

The Tr. Saturn-Pluto conjunction on her DSC represents her turning up the pressure on her husband to 'make it happen.'

Harry feels personally responsible for fulfilling her goals (Tr. Saturn-Pluto in 1st)...note the Iger video where he's acting like her agent.

Yet, the stress of it all is making him depressed, explosive and a bit crazy (Tr. Saturn-Pluto semi-square Uranus and Mars ruling 3rd).

Dean B.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 14, 2020, 04:51:19 AM
Pamela, I’ve had some of those very thoughts about the possibility of immaturity, irresponsibility, or misunderstanding related to transiting Neptune in Pisces, in Harry’s 2nd House - sensitizing creativity or uncertainty connected to self-worth - and squaring Harry’s natal freedom-loving Sagittarius Mars - positively “making waves effectively”, to borrow from Noel, or negatively, hastily disregarding others. 

Feeling at sea, adrift, or losing focus comes to mind with this contact. Perhaps with increased vulnerabiliy or receptivity to inspiration or imagination, that creates an individual course change.

Good points about the Neptune transit in Pisces through Harry's 2nd house, pdw.  Perhaps its effects are being intensified by the fact that natally Harry has Sun square Neptune, with his Neptune being in the 12th house.  This may indicate problems with his father being absent or in some way feeling unavailable to him when he was growing up.  I'm reminded that Diana said Charles was disappointed that Harry was not a girl, and that he was particularly put out by the fact that he had red hair, which I gather Charles doesn't care for.  Diana said something died inside her, with regard to her marriage, after she heard Charles' first words (negative) on seeing Harry for the first time.

 So while Charles has apparently grown to love his son with time, maybe while Harry was growing up, especially as a young child, he got vibes from Charles that he was not wanted or appreciated, and that caused him to lack self-esteem and to be overly dependent on others for a feeling of self-worth.  It would also contribute strongly to him having a tendency to seek escape when the going got tough, particularly with his Neptune being in the 12th house, which among other things denotes escape - a veritable double whammy.  He would tend to seek escape via the route of using drugs and/or alcohol, both of which he abused mightily during his teens and possibly his 20s as well (not sure about the 20s.)

  Of course, the positive side of the Sun-Neptune square is that it would incline him towards wanting to help the underdog, those in need of help in society, and this side of him has been much more in evidence in the past few years.  This aspect would also incline him to be interested in and attracted to the film world, and its players (ahem - Meghan).

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 14, 2020, 04:54:47 AM
when will people grow up. U don't need royalty.
and i was James I

 ;D ;D ;D. James I?!  I thought you were James the brother of Jesus?  Have you cornered the market on every historical James?

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 14, 2020, 04:57:08 AM
Pam, my view:

Meghan sees herself (Moon ruling ASC) in business partnership with her husband (conjunct Saturn ruling DSC) making huge gains (conjunct Jupiter) marketing themselves and merchandise (in 3rd).

The Tr. Saturn-Pluto conjunction on her DSC represents her turning up the pressure on her husband to 'make it happen.'

Harry feels personally responsible for fulfilling her goals (Tr. Saturn-Pluto in 1st)...note the Iger video where he's acting like her agent.

Yet, the stress of it all is making him depressed, explosive and a bit crazy (Tr. Saturn-Pluto semi-square Uranus and Mars ruling 3rd).

Dean B.

Dean, thanks very much; it makes perfect sense.  I hope to come back later today and say more; right now I'm afraid I have to run.  If I can't get back today it'll be tomorrow.

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Kathy Rose on January 14, 2020, 07:36:34 AM
This is a great thread on Prince Harry and Meghan. I would like to add a few things.....

One theory I hold near and dear in astrology is that the Horoscope has a memory.  Very often when intense life events happen - the planets in the natal that were activated at that time by transit or solar arc.... receive an imprint of that event.

Then later - when that same natal planet receives contact again - there is continued development of the earlier event. What this is saying is that there are planets in our natal that become highly sensitized - and will be super responsive to contact.

Prince Harry had the most intense event - when his mother died in 1997. I wrote a big article about this for TMA - and in it, I focused on the planets that were activated in his chart at that time - and his healing journey. Here is the link for that article - in case you want to read:  http://roseastrology.com/article/PrinceHarry/

So now - we see continued development for Prince Harry - with his sense of identity. We see this through his Asc.... the ultimate symbol of identity development. When his mother passed away, his natal Saturn was super activated - and Saturn rules his Asc.

Right now he has tr Jupiter conjunct the Asc - and tr Saturn was there in early 2019 also. So - we could say that breaking away from Royal activities may be part of his coming to terms with his own identity. There are other echos too - already mentioned by some in these threads - for example the big bell statement from SA Pluto = Mercury.

But there is one more very important statement for Prince Harry - and that is the transits from Saturn and Pluto to his Sun/Moon midpoint. I'm lecturing on this topic at my own conference (Empowered Astrology conference) in March - then again at the ISAR conference in September.

Prince Harry has had this essential midpoint activated all of 2019. His Sun/Moon is 22 Cancer 09.  So many people forget to check out the activity to this most important midpoint.

Meghan Markle has load of activity - the most telling cycle will be tr Pluto conjunct her Dsc very soon. However, she is currently experiencing tr Uranus to her Mercury. So much to say about this couple - it's going to be interesting.

My main point is that Prince Harry's development now is a continuation of healing and growth from the traumatic childhood event of his mother dying.

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Dean B on January 14, 2020, 12:38:15 PM
Thanks Kathy…I totally overlooked Tr. Saturn-Pluto contact to Harry’s Sun/Moon midpoint…hugely important given what’s going on now!

How perplexing to notice that Harry has a very nice natal Sun trine Moon as Noel taught that Sun-Moon contacts reveal the state of the parental union at birth. As Pam mentioned earlier, Charles and Diana’s marriage was fraught then, too – I don’t quite remember.

Clearly, the parental/family challenges can be seen in Harry’s Moon opposition Saturn on the MC-IC.

Dean B.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Kathy Rose on January 14, 2020, 03:06:00 PM
Dean - Noel super emphasized Sun square Moon as a suggestion that the mother and father were "at each other throats". He was rather neutral on the trine between the two luminaries.  Many times the trine does indeed suggest harmony between the parents - but we know that wasn't the case here.

Prince Harry has that powerful Saturn unaspected sitting at the MC - with Sun square Neptune and also Sun square Mars. 
That Saturn - so prominent - really struck me as a statement that "duty" and tradition would be imposed on him - and isn't it interesting that SA Pluto = Saturn! when his mother died? Bruising his identity so deeply - and being taught to hold it all in so as to keep the Royal chin up.

His case is fascinating to me on so many levels - I admit - when I wrote the article about him, I was swept into the Royal world.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 15, 2020, 06:02:35 AM
Pam, my view:

Meghan sees herself (Moon ruling ASC) in business partnership with her husband (conjunct Saturn ruling DSC) making huge gains (conjunct Jupiter) marketing themselves and merchandise (in 3rd).

The Tr. Saturn-Pluto conjunction on her DSC represents her turning up the pressure on her husband to 'make it happen.'

Harry feels personally responsible for fulfilling her goals (Tr. Saturn-Pluto in 1st)...note the Iger video where he's acting like her agent.

Yet, the stress of it all is making him depressed, explosive and a bit crazy (Tr. Saturn-Pluto semi-square Uranus and Mars ruling 3rd).

Dean B.

Hi Dean,

Do you really think Meghan is that cold-blooded about business and money?  I really hope not.  I guess I may have been letting my usual hope for a genuine fairy tale romance influence my judgment.  I was hoping she at least had herself convinced that she was really in love with Harry.  But I am starting to wonder.

I remember her previous boyfriend, the Toronto chef Cory Vitiello, with whom she lived for two years, dumped her because he felt she was 'full of herself' (i.e., conceited and arrogant), that she thought she was more famous than she was, and he was sick of it.  And her former best friend Ninaki Priddy (I think that was her name) said that after Meghan moved to Toronto to work in the TV show Suits she never wanted to go to restaurants or any public places any more, because she claimed to fear she would be beset by fans.  I mean, she definitely was not that famous back then; she was acting as though she were as famous as she is now, and she wasn't.  She only gained that amount of fame when she started dating Prince Harry.  But she has always thought that she's a STAR - or has wanted to be.

Yesterday while I had to spend several hours on trains I passed the time reading article after article about this whole situation on my phone. I read too many to be able to remember all the titles now, to be able to provide links to them.  But I do remember certain things:  apparently while everyone in the royal family is worried about Harry's mental stability, Harry himself is very worried about Meghan's mental stability.  I read, 'The one thing Harry can't handle is a distraught wife.'  Meghan is said to have been extremely miserable living in Britain, partly because of all the negative press in the papers and on TV, but also in large part because of relations with others in the royal family behind the scenes; it is said that she just can't cope, or is unwilling to, with 'the criticism and backstabbing' that goes on behind palace walls.  (Diana could have told her about all that; for that matter, so could Kate.)  Harry feels his family was bullying him and Meghan, especially William; William, on the other hand, feels that Harry has been rude and thoughtless, especially to the Queen, and that Meghan's behaviour has been just plain inappropriate for a member of the royal family.

Remember that TV documentary a few months back, when Harry and Meghan were interviewed in Africa and talked about how challenging they had found things since their marriage, dealing with all this (though they didn't go into all the details at that time)?  In one of the articles I read it gave the text of part of what Meghan said when she was interviewed, which I copied down because it bugged me so much: "Any woman, especially when they're pregnant, you're really vulnerable, and so that was made really challenging.  And then when you have a newborn, you know.  And especially as a woman, it's a lot."  I remember wondering at the time, watching it, thinking, What on earth is she going on about?  Is she saying that women are more emotional and fragile than men, especially if they're pregnant, so they need to be treated with kid gloves and handled like they're made of fine china?  Because that's what it sounded like to me.  For heaven's sake.  Are women equal to men or not?!  You can't have it both ways. 

Or is it just that Meghan herself is a snowflake?  And a narcissistic one at that.  Me, me, me, me, me.  (Sun in Leo in the 1st house exactly trine MC in Aries; Mars in Cancer in the 12th house, exactly square the MC and exactly semi-sextile the Sun.)  Brutal.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 15, 2020, 06:50:16 AM

My main point is that Prince Harry's development now is a continuation of healing and growth from the traumatic childhood event of his mother dying.


Hi Kathy,

Thank you very much for your thoughts on all this, and for giving the link to your article, which I enjoyed.  I couldn't agree more with your main point quoted above.

 Looking at Harry's natal chart, with the Descendant at 11º Cancer, it almost seems as though he and Meghan were fated to get together.  Diana had her Sun in Cancer, and with Harry having Cancer on his 7th house cusp, he would obviously be looking for a mother substitute in his marriage partner.  Meanwhile, Meghan's Mars is at 11º Cancer, thus bang on his Descendant.  That degree is very important in Meghan's chart, with not just Mars there but also her Sun, at 11º Leo, and her MC, at 11º Aries; Mars rules Aries, thus she has attained her current public role and stature by marrying Harry.  It's too bad it's Mars that's involved, rather than Venus or the Moon or Jupiter.  Mars might make for good sex and a generally very energetic relationship, but I don't know that it bodes well for longevity, especially given that Meghan's Mars is in her 12th house (secrets; deceit.)

Meanwhile, Harry has natal Neptune (confusion; delusion; deceit) in his 12th house, and where is transiting Neptune right now?  Where else, but at 16º Pisces, exactly squaring Harry's Mars in Sagittarius (foreign lands; freedom) in the 11th house (hopes; wishes; dreams; goals; society), from the 2nd (money!)  Neptune square Mars is one of the most unpleasant transits there is, in my experience; it involves all kinds of behind the scenes goings-on, double-dealing and general secretive nastiness.

 Poor, poor guy.  I hope he comes out of all this okay.  I see transiting Mars will exactly conjoin his 11th house Uranus in a few days; I hope whatever surprise is in the wings will not be too awful.  I am a little worried by the fact that, as I read, Harry and Meghan have agreed to 'renounce' their claim to be 'internationally protected people' and will thus be giving up the security they had originally planned to keep, apparently because the cost of that security was proving to be one of the most difficult topics in negotiating the future they want.  This could have downright dangerous implications.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Halina on January 15, 2020, 07:56:25 AM
      There are 2 Monarchy charts;   The Hanoverian Chart, Aug 1, 1714, noon, London, JC and the House of Windsor chart, July 17, 1917, New Style.
Let's look at each chart and the aspects that were present for notable events.
      THE HANOVERIAN MONARCHY CHART
1. Abdication of 1936.  Tr Pluto conj n Mars.   Tr Saturn opp tr Neptune conj nUranus.   Crisis and meltdown.
2. Charles divorces Diana, 1996.  Tr Neptune opp nMars.   Tr Mar-Venus conj nMars.
3. Diana's death.  1997.  Tr Saturn, depression conj nJupiter.
4. Queen Elizabeth's coronation, 1953.  Tr Pluto conj Leo Sun.   Tr Jupiter square nPluto.
5. Victoria's coronation, 1838.  Tr Pluto conj nJupiter.

      HOUSE OF WINDSOR CHART
1.  Eliz coronation.   Mars conj Jupiter in Gemini.
2.  Charles' divorce.  Tr Neptune opp nSun

         CURRENT ASPECTS IN BOTH CHARTS
1.  Both charts have hard Sat-Pluto aspects.   2. In Hanoverian chart, tr Sat opp nMars and Sun in Windsor chart.
2.  Tr Pluto opp Sat and Sun in both charts.   4.  Tr Uranus hits on both charts Neptunes.   5. In one chart, tr Nep hard to nVenus
     while in the other, to nMars.  6. Windsor chare hit hard by Solar Arc Mars square Pluto in 2022.  then SA Nep-Sat 90 Venus,  2023.
7,  Hanoverian chart hit in 2025, SA Saturn 90 Jupiter and SA Merc-Uranus conj Mars.
8.  Tr Pluto connects to Prince William, Kate and Meghan. 
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Dean B on January 15, 2020, 03:34:08 PM
Hi Pam / Forum:

Notice MM’s Moon-Saturn in 3 and just how many times you come across the term “ghosting” in reading about her pre-Royal life…that she had a long record of “moving on” from personal and professional relationships once those people became no longer of use to her.

Ghosting: the practice of ending a personal relationship with someone by suddenly and without explanation withdrawing from all communication.

Not only is Harry’s Neptune in the 12th but it conjuncts Jupiter…an “excessive” sense of being lost and an “exaggerated” woe-is-me self-perception.

It’s been interesting to read about Prince Philip’s private fury regarding this recent situation. Philip had a precarious childhood and his mother was a paranoid schizophrenic. When he arrived on the scene to court Princess Elizabeth he was reviled by the courtiers for being a “foreigner.” Once she became Queen, his beloved naval career had to end.

But, oh my, have the Sussexes suffered!

Dean B.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 16, 2020, 04:33:09 AM
Hi Dean,

Interesting point about Harry's Jupiter also being in his 12th house in addition to Neptune.  Jupiter is the traditional ruler of Pisces, so he has both rulers of that sign in the 12th, the house that corresponds to the sign Pisces.  Is that a double whammy or a triple whammy?  Any way you slice it, he certainly comes by any '"exaggerated" woe-is-me self-perception' honestly.  I can't help feeling sorry for him, but then I've always had a soft spot for Harry.  The more time passes, the more I feel that he's being victimized by a cold, conniving woman. I hope I'm wrong.

I've been wondering what Prince Philip might have said about it all, as I had never seen anything.  So after reading your comment about him I googled it;  I figured as much.  It also said that he'd been suffering from a flu-like illness for some time, which is why he was put into the hospital, and that he'd had a bad fall.  Poor man - he's 98 years old and in very poor health; he sure doesn't need all this nonsense.

With the trial coming up in which Meghan is suing the newspaper that printed her personal letter to her father, she's being advised to cut her losses and not go ahead with it, since if she does both she and her father will be called as witnesses and will have to testify.  She'll be subject to cross-examination, and it won't be pretty.  And as a no-longer-royal person, she won't be entitled to any protection from it at all.  Good luck to her; she'll need it if she goes ahead with it. 

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Robynne on January 16, 2020, 06:32:20 PM
I think at this point it may be beneficial for the forumites to brush up on their Cancer/Capricorn nodal axis, as these are the current transiting Nodes.

Sorry if that sounds a bit condescending, but this scenario is typical of seperating business from family, which would be notoriously difficult if you were part of the royal family, aka 'The Firm'.

To me, they are simply establishing the fact that their own immediate family, the trio of Harry, Meghan, and Archie are their closest concern.

Just a thought. Its a shame that Meghan is taking the lions share of the blame here, even if she is a 1st house Leo.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 16, 2020, 07:25:52 PM
As I have Cancer rising myself with Moon in Cancer, and Venus in Capricorn right on the Descendant, I don't think I need to be reminded of the meanings of these signs.  You're entitled to your opinion, Robynne, but I think their actions go way beyond 'simply establishing the fact that their own immediate family, the trio of Harry, Meghan, and Archie are their closest concern.'  They're essentially quitting the royal family, and moving across the ocean.  That seems a bit extreme if their goal was what you say.  Clearly you're on Meghan's side; that's your prerogative.  But if she's taking the lion's share of the blame, there's a reason for it; her actions speak for themselves.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Robynne on January 16, 2020, 08:31:05 PM
Apologies Pam, this is Your thread. I just felt a bit angry when reading the posts, there seemed to be a very strong bias accumulating here.

Will just agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 16, 2020, 08:42:23 PM
I’m all for agreeing to disagree.  😊
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Halina on January 17, 2020, 06:36:58 AM
Hi Kathy,  I was just looking at your dissertation of Harry being imprinted by Diana's death.    I'm studying it from the perspective of Huber Astrology and
Harry's Age Point at that time and comparing the 2 aspects made by Harry's Age Point to Mercury, the mind and Jupiter-Neptune, tremendous gried, sorrow
In his natal chart he has Mercury square Jupiter-Neptune, much sorrow, so this aspect being activated by Diana's deah is being hit hard.
    See his first Huber Wheel and aspects at death and funeral time leaving an IMPRINT of this event.   Note this event hits his C1,first critical event arrow.
This event will be resolved at C2, 36 years later, at C2, resolution of imprinting event C1.
    The second Huber wheel shows his Sun/Moon midpoint being activated.....exact on Oct 12, 2022....but allowing a 2 degree orb it is under activation
now especially with his home life under control in Vancouver, Canada.   See the Age Point target throwing aspects to natal Sun/Jupiter-Neptune and
nMoon opp nSaturn, ruler of Asc/IDENTITY..
    In Huber astrology, the FAMILY MODEL uses Saturn, as mother, here ruler of Harry's Identitiy 1st House.....he identified with his mother.
Moon is represented by Harry himself, his NEEDS being Moon in Taurus and Sun represents his father, Charles in 8th. a Scorpio father.
   His identifying with Meghan now will help heal the wound he suffered at C1.
From Age 0 to age 36 Harry's Age Point was below the horizon line so he was responding to events in an UNCONSCIOUS, REPRESSED LEVEL but now
that his AGE POINT is above the horizon he can see things more CONSCIOUSLY and work on that IMPRINTED EVENT, the tragedy at C1.
   At Age 46 he will have reached the INDIVIDUATION QUADRANT......knowing who he is as an individual in his own right.....and finding his IDENTITY.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 17, 2020, 11:48:56 AM
Tomorrow Prince Harry will be having transiting Mars exactly conjunct his natal 11th house Uranus.  I said a few posts back that I hoped whatever surprise that would entail would not be too awful.

 Well, apparently the palace is going to make an 'imminent' official announcement about Harry and Meghan's future together, including the details regarding their finances, security, and whether or not they will be keeping their titles and their Frogmore Cottage home.  Moreover, it has been reported that their staff at Frogmore Cottage has been 'redeployed' (they say this does not mean they've been let go, just sent elsewhere to work.)

So I think it's safe to say that the 'imminent' announcement, if it happens tomorrow as people are expecting, will be the concrete expression of Harry's Mars conjunct Uranus transit.  I repeat: I hope it won't be too awful. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7899875/Queens-aides-finalise-details-Megxit-deal-announcement-imminent.html
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Alice Portman on January 18, 2020, 06:13:17 PM
Harry has transiting Saturn, ruler of his Ascendant, moving into the private sector of his chart - houses 1-4.  Therefore it is not unreasonable for him to choose a quieter life during this period, most people do.

I don't understand why people are so angry about this couple's decision.  Harry is a Prince of the UK, but a second son and therefore does not have to be in the public eye and subject to public scrutiny to the level of his brother.  Back in my day (I am so old!)  No one objected when Anne and Edward opted for a more private life.

For heaven's sake, he isn't 'divorcing' his family, he will still hold certain responsibilities but he is desperate to have a quieter, more private life for his own sake and for the sake of his wife and child.  If Canada can give him this, I am all for the move.   If fact, since I studied his chart after his mother's death, I have seen him living in a foreign country for an extended period -  many people with Jupiter and/or Neptune in the 12th do live in foreign lands.  I have noticed quite a few astrologers have seen the same thing.  However,  I do wonder about relocated Ascendant conjunct his Saturn in Toronto, it will be interesting to see how he settles there.

This whole hooha seems totally unreasonable and unfair to me.

And as for the accusation of mental instability just because he wants to opt out of the limelight and pressures of being a working royal - that is just ridiculous!  To me that is sanity, not insanity.

Harry has Ceres conjunct his Taurus Moon, this suggests he is a very kind and nurturing person who wants to take proper care of his family, he wants to give them security and give his son as much privacy as possible.

The results of the negotiations have now been published.  Harry and Meghan will lose the Royal Highness titles, no longer receive public funds or officially represent the Queen and will pay back the cost of renovations of Frogmore cottage.  The Queen emphasised they are still loved members of her family.

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Alice Portman on January 18, 2020, 07:14:56 PM
Here is Meghan's chart.

Notice she has Pluto in the 4th house square her Ascendant-Descendant axis; she also has a Pluto = Node/MC and Mars/Node.  These all suggest difficulties with various forms of relationships.  A Pluto person will instantly cut people out of their lives if they have hurt or humiliated them in some way and I think this is what has happened with Meghan. Notice that her ex-husband has not said anything about why they divorced - there might be more to the story than we know.  If her so called best friend publicly supported her ex-husband then Meghan would have been devasted and had nothing more to do with her.  I don't think she was ever a true friend because she went public with her dislike of Meghan - I don't know anyone at all who would do that even to people they deeply disliked.

As for her truly appalling father and sister - who, with any decency at all,  does what they did?!  Talk about public abuse - and she had to remain silent!  With a sister like that I am sure she cut her out of her life a long time ago.  In addition there is a very big age gap so I don't think they ever had much in common.

Meghan also has Mars in the 12th in Cancer square her MC-IC axis and ruler of the MC suggesting considerable problems with at least one parent, which came to public knowledge in London, where her relocated chart moves the Mars from the 12th house to the 9th and semisquares the relocated Vertex.

Incidently the relocated Vertex for London is conjunct her marriage Sun.

As for her having different friends at different periods of her life - to me this is normal; people move away, take up a different lifestyle, change their interests and lose touch with the friends of that time and make new friends.  This seems to happen to most people so I think she has been very harshly judged in this area as well.

Meghan has the Moon in the Hasta Moon Mansion- this is a Deva Moon, a lovely, kind, gentle placement which is not malicious.

Maybe Eris up there near the MC gives the tendency to be a trouble-maker, but in my studies of Eris this only seems to be the case if it is within a one degree aspect, anything wider than that seems to have no effect.

In Toronto Meghan has the last degree of Leo on the Ascendant, conjunct the royal fixed star Regulus, and this is where she and Harry's relationship took root.   She has Ceres rising there so this might be helpful in mothering her child.  Chiron is exactly on the Taurus MC , which is conjunct Harry's Moon and trine his Sun, suggesting their relationship has a better change of settling into stablity in that location.  The Magi astrologers say one person's Chiron in good aspect to the Sun or the Moon of the other is a major marriage aspect and gives happiness in marriage as well as creating mutual trust.

I was fascinated to see that her relocated antiVertex in Toronto is exactly conjunct her natal Ascendant and the Vertex conjunct her natal Descendant - this is therefore a destiny location. It will  be receiving a Saturn and then Pluto transit at the same time as her natal Descendant, thereby intensifying even further the effect of this transit.  This is intense and I hope she manages it safely.  I have always been a bit worried about fanatics trying to assassinate her (and I think Harry is as well) and hope that this couple are able to keep their bodyguards.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 19, 2020, 06:56:43 AM
I just spent a LONG time working on a reply to the above two posts.  When I tried to preview it, I got a message saying only registered members of the forum could use this feature; I was told to join or log in.  I checked and I was still logged into the forum; needless to say, I am already a registered member.  Then. I noticed that it said up top, 'Fetching preview ...'  This just froze up there; I tried clicking on Post, and nothing happened - it just continued to say Fetching preview, and it never did. 

I really don't feel like trying to reconstruct my reply again, especially as I have no way of knowing if it will go through when I click on Post.  And here I had just said in a post to Admin that the forum was working perfectly.  Ha.  Frankly, it seems like certain people are being allowed to post and others aren't, depending on what they're saying.  This is disgusting.  If it doesn't stop, I'm going to leave this forum.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 19, 2020, 07:16:35 AM
Second try.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51163865

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/18/world/europe/meghan-harry-royals-uk.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/if-they-lose-sussex-royal-how-will-prince-harry-and-meghan-markle-make-money-5?ref=scroll

So the Sussexes will not be keeping their royal titles, i.e., they are no longer royal personages.  They can keep their Frogmore Cottage home in the UK but will have to pay rent on it, and will have to repay the 2.5 million pounds (over 3 million dollars) of taxpayer funds that it cost to renovate it to their specifications.  They can earn their own income, but not in any way that would involve trading on their royal pedigree; presumably this means that they won't be able to take advantage of any offers they receive to do tell-all interviews or write tell-all books, which would be extremely lucrative.  They are, of course, already extremely wealthy as things stand, but if they're going to be private citizens their tax status may prove ruinous to their current fortune. 

And, crucially, if they are no longer royal personages and as such, cannot use their former royal titles, will they be allowed to use their sussexroyal brand which they had trademarked in order to make money from hawking all kinds of things on their website?  It's hard to see how that would be permitted under the rules of this new agreement.

It appears that they will still be able to receive money from Prince Charles, who up to now is believed to have given them between two and four million pounds annually (as I recall; I don't have the figures in front of me).  That money comes from Charles' holding the Duchy of Cornwall, which always belongs to the Prince of Wales, whoever he may be; when William becomes Prince of Wales the  Duchy will become his, and it's questionable if he will want to continue to bankroll his brother and his wife, given the recent falling out between them.  It's possible that Charles would continue to support Harry and Meghan from his new holding when he becomes King, the Duchy of Lancaster (I think it is; speaking from memory).

As for issues of security, whether they will continue to receive it and if so, who will pay for it, that was not shared with the public.  I hope it has been ironed out; they say the reason it took so long for the announcement to be made was because the issue of security could not be decided. 

I had answered some of Alice's comments in my previous attempted post; I am hesitant to try again.  I will post this first.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 19, 2020, 07:50:46 AM
Alice said, 'This whole hooha seems totally unreasonable and unfair to me.'  She also said that she doesn't understand why people are so angry about the Sussexes' decision to step back as members of the royal family.  I don't think everyone is angry, but certainly most people were shocked; while it's clear in hindsight that the Sussexes had been planning this for many months, nobody knew about it  - it took everyone by surprise, to make an understatement.  The hooha is the result of the bombshell announcement.

As Harry currently has transiting Saturn, his chart ruler, in his 1st house, it's certainly true that he would be interested in focusing on his private life and family concerns; thus his desire for a quieter life is indeed only natural.  However, the way he has gone about trying to attain it has alienated a lot of people in his own family, and a lot of his former friends.  He is said to have changed, to have become selfish and thoughtless, only thinking about his own and Meghan's desires, and heedless of what effect achieving their desires may have on others.  That's why some people are angry, I assume. 

As for the issue of people questioning his mental stability, it's not 'just because he wants to opt out of the limelight and pressures of being a working royal'.  It's members of his own family who are worried about his mental stability because of things he has said and done, or not done, over the last few years, and though it began before he met Meghan, it has greatly increased since.  They feel he has been rude to the Queen, that he's totally inconsiderate of everyone but himself and Meghan, and that in general he's behaving in a thoughtless way that he would not have done before.  I've posted links in previous posts that give details about all this.

As for Meghan, she certainly has been unlucky in her family members, and I wouldn't wish what she's gone through with them on anyone.  It's also true that the British press has been most unfair to her, and it shouldn't be allowed.  Having said that, she has made enemies on her own, because of her actions. 

Apparently she is jealous of Kate Middleton, and of the fact that Kate is treated as being more important than she, Meghan.  Well, whether Meghan likes it or not, she is married to a man who is only sixth in line to the throne, while Kate is married to a future king and is thus slated to be Queen one day.  She is, in fact, more important than Meghan in terms of their positions within the royal family, and that's just all there is to it.  But Meghan was apparently not happy about this, and it's said that the main reason she wanted to leave Kensington Palace for Frogmore Cottage was to get away from Kate; they say she's not interested in constantly being compared to her.  She made Kate cry at the wedding, something about Charlotte's dress; can you imagine?  What on earth could she have said to make Kate cry?!  And she apparently had spoken to some of Kate's employees in a way that greatly upset them, and when the Queen heard about it she went ballistic and called Harry in and read him the riot act.
'
As for Ninaki Priddy, whom you called Meghan's 'so-called best friend', she was good friends with Meghan's first husband too, and it was after he told Ninaki his side of what caused the end of the marriage that Ninaki cut ties with Meghan.  She had been best friends with Meghan since they were two years old; they'd gone all through school together, gone to Europe together, and she had been maid of honour at Meghan's first wedding.  Whatever Meghan's first husband said as to why the marriage ended must have been pretty damning.  But you'll note that Ninaki has not shared that with the world, as I assume she would have if she were only interested in profiting off of her former friendship with Meghan.  Because of that, along with the fact that she knew Meghan very well and for a long time, I think that Ninaki's viewpoint is worth considering.

Ninaki said that Meghan uses people until she no longer can profit from knowing them, then drops them.  It's interesting that when Meghan first came to London, before meeting Prince Harry, she contacted an English TV personality she knew, Lizzie Cundy, and asked her if she knew any famous men she could introduce her to.  Those were her words: "Do you know any famous men?  I'm single and I really love English men ..."  She didn't ask to be introduced to single men, or attractive men, or successful men; she wanted to meet famous men.  Well, I'd say Prince Harry qualified.  And after she did meet him and started dating him, she ghosted this woman she'd contacted!  Remember Dean's post about ghosting?!  Perfect example.

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 19, 2020, 10:36:27 AM
I forgot to mention some things that I'd written in my original post that wouldn't go through.

With regard to people being angry that the Sussexes are giving up their royal status and won't be carrying out royal duties any more; Alice was wondering why people would care, much less be angry about it.  Harry is not in line to be king, so what difference does it make? 

The reason it matters, and the reason some people are angry about it, is because it will have a big  impact on the lives of certain other people, to their detriment.  And Harry and Meghan don't seem to be worrying about that at all; they just want what they want, and too bad if anyone else gets hurt in the process.  This is an example of why people think Harry is being thoughtless and irresponsible, thinking of no one but himself.

Since he and Meghan no longer have royal status they cannot perform the duties they used to do, representing the Queen.  But those jobs have to be done by somebody; if Harry and Meghan are no longer going to do them, someone else has to pick up the slack.  The problem is, Charles wants a slimmed down monarchy, presumably to appease those in the British public who think the royal family costs way too much to maintain. 

Charles and Anne already do a huge amount of work, as does the Queen; she does less than she used to because of her age, but she still does an amazing amount, considering.  And Prince Philip used to do a lot before he retired in late 2017, because of his health.  William does quite a bit, but will probably have to do more now, and so will Kate.  Now Kate, because she has young children and is a very hands-on mother, has been doing less than others so she could have time with her children; she may have to give up a lot of that now, because someone is going to have to take over the jobs that Harry and Meghan will no longer be doing.  Andrew is already out of the picture, so his jobs have also had to be reassigned.  It's possible that Andrew's daughters, Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie, will have to start doing a lot more royal duties than they ever had to before, because they have careers outside of the royal family.  But the work has to be done, and there's only so many people in the royal family and only so many hours in the day, so people are going to have to start stepping up to the plate whether they like it or not.

Consequently there's going to be a big fall-out from the decision that Harry and Meghan made; it will have an impact on the daily lives of a lot of people in the royal family.  And the Sussexes didn't discuss it with anyone, or ask advice at all; they just announced it to the public, as a fait accompli.  And you wonder why some people are angry.

I think when transiting Mars conjoined Harry's 11th house Uranus a couple of days ago, that may have coincided with him being told that he and Meghan were going to lose their royal titles, and would not be able to perform any duties any more representing the Queen.  Also that while they could technically keep Frogmore Cottage, they were going to have to pay rent on it, and pay back the over three million dollars that it had cost the British taxpayer to renovate it.  And if they can't use their brand Sussexroyal to earn income or accept any offers of high paying work that the Queen would see as profiting off of their royal pedigree, financially they may have a bit of a tough row to hoe in future.

 In their original bombshell announcement, Harry and Meghan said they wanted to be free to earn independent income, but that they would be keeping their royal titles, would continue to represent the Queen, would continue to keep Frogmore Cottage as their home in Britain, and would continue to keep their security as internationally protected persons.   They've ended up losing almost everything they said they'd be keeping.  They wanted to step away from the royal family; well, they got it, I suspect more than Harry is happy with.

I see transiting Saturn, Harry's ruling planet, will be entering Aquarius soon and thus squaring his Pluto (power; control) at the end of March.  His Pluto's in the 9th house (foreign lands), as is his natal Saturn (restriction).  Transiting Saturn square Pluto is not a pleasant transit.  It'll be interesting.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: amymaddalozzo on January 19, 2020, 01:17:33 PM
Has anyone looked at Harry and Meghan's house of money--I seriously doubt either has a clue in  terms of how much their life style costs!  it is my understanding that they have been supported by Prince Charles.  Harry and Meghan may be able to make good money now but as their star fades, they could have problems maintaining their life style   amy
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Dean B on January 19, 2020, 08:05:36 PM
Hello Forum:

Regarding Harry & Meghan’s move to North America…according to reports, Harry would prefer Vancouver but Meghan likes Toronto better. Los Angeles appears to be their ultimate destination.

Chart 1 [attached] relocates Harry’s chart to Vancouver:

1) Jupiter in Capricorn is angular, conjunct the IC and square the ASC-DSC…this is an outdoorsy signature, appreciative of the grand expanse of the mountains and the freedom of the land and nature. It is for this reason that Harry would love Vancouver.

Chart 2 [attached] relocates Harry’s chart to Toronto:

2) Saturn is precisely on the ASC…for someone restructuring their life to fulfill more “personal” goals this placement makes sense; however, it also would alert me to a feeling of “isolation” in this location, being so far away from his familiar world.

3) Pluto, ruler of the Toronto ASC and ruler of his natal MC in 12th…does Harry become “The Invisible Man” in Toronto, completely disappearing from sight? Maybe this is what he wants at this point in his life; or, he falls apart here overwhelmed by feelings of powerlessness.

4) Moon in 7th square MC and ruling 9th…Toronto meets the needs (Moon) of the spouse’s (7th) career goals (MC), particularly in marketing and communications (9th - the 3rd of the DSC). Wow!

Chart 3 [attached] relocates Meghan’s chart to Toronto:

5) Uranus angular, on the IC and square the ASC-DSC…she finds Toronto an exciting place to be – unstuffy and liberating – probably more now than ever.

6) Uranus rules the Toronto 6th and DSC…she worked here in television; her whirlwind relationship with Harry started here.

7) Royal fixed star Regulus on ASC…Toronto, your queen has arrived.

8) Sun, ruler of the Toronto ASC in 12th…The queen may have arrived but the subjects aren’t interested? Could anything be worse for a Leo? Or, maybe, it is here that she disappears for a while to work “behind the scenes” to develop her “brand” before launching it.

Chart 4 [attached] relocates Harry’s chart to Los Angeles:

9) A very powerful Venus…final dispositor in Libra on the ASC and ruling ASC, square the MC-IC, and sextile Mars which rules the DSC…everything about LA feels harmonious to Harry & Meghan – it’s the place to be. I would never have believed this about Harry without the astrological confirmation. It is quite stunning – Hollywood Harry!

Regards,
Dean B.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Halina on January 20, 2020, 06:52:05 AM
 Nice research Dean,   Using asteroids I find for Harry that in his natal chart the following Houses are activated:
1. Asteroid California falls at 15Cn08 on Harry's 7th cusp....excellent for both....she wants to restart her career here.
2. Asteroid Toronto falls at 14Sg58 in his 12th House.....depressing.
3. Asteroid Victoriaharbour, at 00Cn12, Aries Point, in his 6th House of WORK, good for job prospects.

For Meghan, asteroid California falls at 15Cn48 in her 12th House, depressing.    Toronto falls at 12Ge42 in her
11th House of Friends.   Victoriaharbour falls on her 3rd House cusp.
    This study should also include ASTROCARTOGRAPHY maps for each.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 20, 2020, 09:36:58 AM
Has anyone looked at Harry and Meghan's house of money--I seriously doubt either has a clue in  terms of how much their life style costs!  it is my understanding that they have been supported by Prince Charles.  Harry and Meghan may be able to make good money now but as their star fades, they could have problems maintaining their life style   amy

Well, why don't you take a look at that, Amy?  Check out their composite and Davison charts, with transits and progressions, and relocate them to London, Toronto, Vancouver and Los Angeles.

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 20, 2020, 10:41:26 AM
Hi Dean,

Thanks very much for the relocation charts.  Looking at the first one, for Harry for Vancouver, I'm of two minds; yes, there's Jupiter conjunct the IC from the 3rd house, squaring the Ascendant-Descendant axis, which would be positive.  But there's also Saturn (restriction) in the 2nd house (money, security), and Pluto (power; control) technically in the 1st but almost in the 2nd - I'd read it as a 2nd house planet.  Both those planets are in Scorpio, so that intensifies the signature of power and control.  Moreover, Saturn is applying to oppose the Moon (needs) in Taurus (money, security) in the 8th house (other people's money).  And as if all that weren't enough, the North node is in the 8th and the South Node in the 2nd.  I think possibly worrisome financial issues may dominate Harry's thinking in that location, and that he'll feel he's at their mercy.

Of course, as you said, in Toronto he'll have Saturn bang on the Ascendant, with Pluto in the 12th house.  Ouch.  A full 2nd house, with Mars, Neptune and Jupiter in there, and Uranus on the cusp.  And doesn't he have Sun=Mars/Neptune anyway?  With the Mars and Neptune in the 2nd house, double ouch; I imagine money matters will be ... difficult.  Nice for Meghan, though, with that 7th house Moon and the aspects you mentioned; lucky her.

In Los Angeles Harry does have that very nice Venus in Libra in the 1st house. But he also has Saturn in Scorpio in the 2nd house opposing Moon in Taurus in the 8th again, with the nodes again in the 2nd and 8th houses.  I think issues of money and security will be a worry for him even in Los Angeles, though the Venus may help.  Anyway, Meghan has said that as long as Trump is president she won't return to the States to live, so Los Angeles is probably out for now.

I would imagine they will opt for Toronto, because Harry's priority seems to be pleasing Meghan, and Meghan regards Toronto as her second home.  She lived there for six or seven years while working on that TV show, got to know the city very well, and has many friends there, including close ones like Jessica Mulroney.  Having her Sun in the 12th house in that location certainly didn't make her invisible when she lived there before; on the contrary, it was after moving to Toronto that she finally achieved success and a degree of fame in her acting career.

I am so hoping that wherever they go, it will turn out okay.  Did you see Harry's speech that he made at a dinner for his Sentebale charity?  He said he loves the UK and always will, and that he'd made the decision to step back from everything he'd ever known with great sadness, but that there was no other option. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/19/uk/prince-harry-meghan-statement-trnd/index.html


 
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Halina on January 21, 2020, 06:19:47 AM
     I used Astrocartoghy and a detailed scoring system for both in each of the 3 cities.    Here are the results:
MEGHAN for Vancouver:
     Optimism & opportunity.....951 points.
     Culture & creativity...........909 points.
     Responsibility & focus....... 504 points.
     Vocation & career,,,,,,,,,,,,, 407 points
     Friendship & family..........  136 points
MEGHAN for Toronto
     Imagination & inspiration....315 pts
     Culture & creativity.............173 pts
MEGHAN for Los Angeles
     Vocation & career...............272 pts
     Friendship & family.............120 pts
     Culture & creativity.............115 pra.

HARRY for Vancouver
     Education & communication..174 pts
     Culture & creativity................83 pts
     Responsibility & focus..........   51 pts
HARRY for Toronto
     Responsibility & focus...........701 pts
     Vocation & career.................  54 pts
     Optimism & opportunity........  54 pts

HARRY for Los Angeles
     Detailed friendship & family...  73 pts

Source of Scoring System.....David Cochrane's Sirius Program
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: pdw on January 22, 2020, 08:02:14 AM
Alice, thanks for sharing your take.

Dean, that’s interesting relocation research, thanks. 

Pamela, hang in there with Forum! I’m still having difficulty, too. Sometimes it works smoothly, but sometimes a laggy load-up foreshadows trouble posting ahead. Like when you push the post button and are frustratingly denied instead of satisfied – so irritating! I humbly suggest Zen patience and acceptance, by calmly pressing post and if it doesn’t go through then push the back button and hit the post button again, and repeat as necessary. This usually works for me after less than five tries. I also write offline and cut and paste to the Forum, just in case the universe decides to swallow my post instead of publish it.

All, a few more thoughts:

-Alice’s ‘hooha’ got me thinking about celebrity and Harry’s 11th House (reflecting admiration and love received from the public/others, as the result of 10th House work, reputation, status) – and, boy, just look at Harry’s wired 11th House! It’s a wild card of independent-minded natal Uranus and individually –minded natal Mars, in Sagittarius, suggesting to me that his celebrity and personal actions are/will be an extraordinarily big deal in his life, attracting a lot of public attention and opinions (Sagittarius!).  Additionally there are no supportive aspects to these fiery, free-spirited natal 11th House placements, only squares to his natal 8th House planets in practical, grounded Virgo (N Uranus square N Mercury and N Mars square N Sun). Perhaps this is an uneasy excess of Sagittarius for lowkey Virgo to manage, at times, and potentially stressful and/or motivating when triggered – like now with transiting Neptune squaring his natal Mars and his move to create a more ideal (perfect?) life. I thought about Virgo’s interest in getting things right and keen awareness when things are wrong, when Harry humbly admitted in his recent remarks that he hasn’t always “gotten it right”… So now in the wake of “great sadness”, and perhaps sacrifice, he is bravely (Mars) trying to get it right in his new life. I wish my fellow Sun sign the best of luck in the trying… 

-What was happening in Harry’s life the last time transiting Jupiter was this focal, first with his 12th House Jupiter Return (4 Capricorn) and then conjunct his Ascendant (11 Capricorn) – did a big secret, significant shift, new phase or course of action emerge then? And, was it related to his celebrity and the media (with Jupiter ruling his Sagittarius 11th House)? Indeed the similarities between then and now are striking to me … Last time around these contacts occurred in January-February 2008 when he was unexpectedly forced by the media to make a necessary change that he wasn’t happy about. The media blackout on his secret deployment to the frontline in Afghanistan was breached and he had to come home (withdraw) amid concerns for his and his fellow soldiers’ safety. He liked being just a soldier and useful member of the team there…and regretted having to come early. 

-Also, with the Queen forced into Royal family crisis management the last few months (re: Prince Andrew and Prince Harry), I wondered about any astrological similarity between now and her self-described annus horribilis in 1992 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_horribilis . Using transiting Pluto as a major marker for this kind of extreme timing, it was pressuring (sextile) her Capricorn Ascendant into angular action then and is doing the same now, conjunct her Ascendant. 
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Dean B on January 23, 2020, 02:44:46 AM
Thanks Pam.

Hello pdw:

Re the Queen, Tr. Pluto on MC (1992) and Tr. Pluto on ASC (2020).

And, I find your point about houses 5-11 (love given and love received) fascinating.

PH's 5th house ruler squares Uranus; MM's 5th house ruler, Pluto, squares the ASC-DSC.

His Uranus is in 11th; her Uranus is peregrine and in 5th.

So, yes, great passion, thrills, excitement; but also, lots of tumult, drama, instability.

To me, the historical model isn't so much Edward and Wallis; but rather, Richard Burton-Elizabeth Taylor...minus the creative talent.

Dean B.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 23, 2020, 07:39:58 AM

Pamela, hang in there with Forum! I’m still having difficulty, too. Sometimes it works smoothly, but sometimes a laggy load-up foreshadows trouble posting ahead. Like when you push the post button and are frustratingly denied instead of satisfied – so irritating! I humbly suggest Zen patience and acceptance, by calmly pressing post and if it doesn’t go through then push the back button and hit the post button again, and repeat as necessary. This usually works for me after less than five tries. I also write offline and cut and paste to the Forum, just in case the universe decides to swallow my post instead of publish it.

All, a few more thoughts:

-Alice’s ‘hooha’ got me thinking about celebrity and Harry’s 11th House (reflecting admiration and love received from the public/others, as the result of 10th House work, reputation, status) – and, boy, just look at Harry’s wired 11th House! It’s a wild card of independent-minded natal Uranus and individually –minded natal Mars, in Sagittarius, suggesting to me that his celebrity and personal actions are/will be an extraordinarily big deal in his life, attracting a lot of public attention and opinions (Sagittarius!).  Additionally there are no supportive aspects to these fiery, free-spirited natal 11th House placements, only squares to his natal 8th House planets in practical, grounded Virgo (N Uranus square N Mercury and N Mars square N Sun). Perhaps this is an uneasy excess of Sagittarius for lowkey Virgo to manage, at times, and potentially stressful and/or motivating when triggered – like now with transiting Neptune squaring his natal Mars and his move to create a more ideal (perfect?) life. I thought about Virgo’s interest in getting things right and keen awareness when things are wrong, when Harry humbly admitted in his recent remarks that he hasn’t always “gotten it right”… So now in the wake of “great sadness”, and perhaps sacrifice, he is bravely (Mars) trying to get it right in his new life. I wish my fellow Sun sign the best of luck in the trying… 

-What was happening in Harry’s life the last time transiting Jupiter was this focal, first with his 12th House Jupiter Return (4 Capricorn) and then conjunct his Ascendant (11 Capricorn) – did a big secret, significant shift, new phase or course of action emerge then? And, was it related to his celebrity and the media (with Jupiter ruling his Sagittarius 11th House)? Indeed the similarities between then and now are striking to me … Last time around these contacts occurred in January-February 2008 when he was unexpectedly forced by the media to make a necessary change that he wasn’t happy about. The media blackout on his secret deployment to the frontline in Afghanistan was breached and he had to come home (withdraw) amid concerns for his and his fellow soldiers’ safety. He liked being just a soldier and useful member of the team there…and regretted having to come early. 

-Also, with the Queen forced into Royal family crisis management the last few months (re: Prince Andrew and Prince Harry), I wondered about any astrological similarity between now and her self-described annus horribilis in 1992 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_horribilis . Using transiting Pluto as a major marker for this kind of extreme timing, it was pressuring (sextile) her Capricorn Ascendant into angular action then and is doing the same now, conjunct her Ascendant.

Hi pdw,

Thanks for the tips re posting on this forum; here's hoping they will work for me.  Things seem to be loading slowly today, for no apparent reason; who knows what'll happen when I try to post this.

And thanks for your comments re what was happening in Harry's life last time he experienced these transits.  He loved being in the army; it was such a shame that he was made to give it up, to become a working royal.  And after having done it, having done his duty, now this.  I felt so badly for him, when he was talking about the "great sadness" he felt on having to leave the UK and the only life he'd ever known.  I sure hope he will feel it was worth it.

But I don't know: looking ahead to his future transits and progressions, I see transiting Uranus will oppose his Saturn/Pluto midpoint at the same time that he'll have transiting Saturn squaring his 9th-house Pluto.  Then, starting at the end of March in 2022, he'll have transiting Uranus opposing his 9th-house Saturn, opposing his MC, conjoining his 4th-house Moon, and finally conjoining his North Node.  And in 2022 he'll also have progressed Sun conjunct his natal Pluto, while his progressed Ascendant squares his natal 11th-house Uranus.

 Of course, this is all using his natal chart.  I wonder if events may turn out differently if he's living in another location.  Toronto, with his Saturn bang on the relocated Ascendant, and Leo and Aquarius on the MC/IC axis, will be the worst for these transits, the closest to his natal angles. 

Also, his true North Node is at 29º38' Taurus, while the mean North Node is at 0º50' Gemini.  It'll be interesting to see if the sign change is reflected in events at all.

Pam

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 23, 2020, 07:48:19 AM
Thanks Pam.

Hello pdw:

Re the Queen, Tr. Pluto on MC (1992) and Tr. Pluto on ASC (2020).

And, I find your point about houses 5-11 (love given and love received) fascinating.

PH's 5th house ruler squares Uranus; MM's 5th house ruler, Pluto, squares the ASC-DSC.

His Uranus is in 11th; her Uranus is peregrine and in 5th.

So, yes, great passion, thrills, excitement; but also, lots of tumult, drama, instability.

To me, the historical model isn't so much Edward and Wallis; but rather, Richard Burton-Elizabeth Taylor...minus the creative talent.

Dean B.


Yikes!  Here's hoping things turn out better for Harry and Meghan than they did for them.  (Though I think Meghan would probably disagree with your take on their creative talent or lack of it, Dean!)

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 24, 2020, 03:24:22 AM
Oh Dean, I totally agree with you.  I just meant I thought MEGHAN would disagree; she definitely thinks she's a STAR.  The other day her father said in an interview that she had always been a princess, from the moment she was born.  Even after all the bad blood between them, he still thinks that.  And that's the way she's been raised, and she believes it.

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Francine on January 24, 2020, 01:08:22 PM
Pam, you might enjoy this tarot reader
She does a video daily about the Meghan/Harry situation.

https://youtube.com/user/tarotbyjanine
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Alice Portman on January 24, 2020, 04:34:06 PM
This is just turned into a hateful gossip thread.  :( Even much of the astrology presented shows the person's prejudice rather than what astrology should be - an impartial assessment of a situation.

None of us know Meghan and everyone is getting their information from the media and her truly horrible father's side of the family.  All who personally know her are very active in her defense - even Oprah defended her.

I was horrified at that tarot reader- talk about a misuse of the tarot!  You can't do an accurate reading for someone unless they consent, otherwise it just comes out as your own state of mind about that person or situation and that reader's state of mind was obvious even before she did the cards. 

This is a very interesting situation and I would love to trace the astrology as events unfold, but I am truly sickened by the hatred and predjuce shown when we have no idea of what is really going on.

Please just keep to the astrology rather than a media induced predjuce and we can follow and analyse a rare event that is very interesting.

I am fascinated to see that Prince Andrew - who really has done something wrong and a bit disgusting - is not receiving any vitriol, this is reserved for an actress who dared to marry a Prince and who has done nothing wrong.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Robynne on January 24, 2020, 09:53:28 PM
Thank you so much Alice.

The one article I retained in my mind, and rang true, was Harry saying he did not want his own family destroyed by the press, after seeing what they did to his Mother.

Even the fact that his 10th ruler Pluto placed in the 9th suggests that as an adult he might relocate to another country, hopefully Pluto will have a transformational effect rather than just experiencing the vitriol dished out by the press, whether its directed at himself or his wife.

I agree, I believe there may be a certain amount of envy involved, that makes Meghan more of a target.


Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Dean B on January 25, 2020, 01:35:08 AM
I don't accept that the stories coming out about MM and PH are all gossip.

As they say...where there's smoke there's fire...and wisdom dictates that if you don't want to get burned you should pay attention to the smoke billowing forth from under the door.

There is just too much being written to believe it's all sour grapes or lies for money.

Also, what one might call 'bias' I would call 'perspective'.

For example, I have a Uranus-Pluto conjunction in the 7th square the MC-IC. I've seen my fair share of family disfunction and narcissistic behaviour. These experiences have shaped my perspective and emotional intelligence.

When these behaviours are exhibited in others my attention is piqued. When corresponding astrological archetypes provide confirmation then conclusions are drawn.

This does not make me the final authority on the matter, any more than Oprah is, who after all, was taken in by the predator 'John of God'.

Dean B.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 25, 2020, 02:54:31 AM
Boy, I've sure missed a lot since the last time I checked this thread.  No email notifications!

Francine, thank you for the link to the tarot reading.  Tarot is one thing I've never gotten into so I can't judge what the tarot reader is saying at all, but I appreciate your offer of more information on this whole situation.

Alice, with regard to your your comment This is just turned into a hateful gossip thread.  Even much of the astrology presented shows the person's prejudice rather than what astrology should be - an impartial assessment of a situation.  As the person who started this thread, I would hate to think that it is just 'a hateful gossip thread,' or that the astrology presented is not impartial but prejudiced.

 When Meghan first appeared on the scene dating Harry, I was very favourably impressed by her.  I thought she was wonderful, and I was so happy for Harry, whom I have always held in very high regard, that he had finally found the love he had been seeking for so long.  I thought Meghan was perfect for him and would make a perfect addition to the royal family, and anyone who has read my posts on this website about the whole situation over the last few years could see that for themselves.  They could also see how my opinion changed over time, as new information came out and I re-examined the astrology.  I came to believe that I had had blinkers on at the beginning, had let my favourable impression of Meghan, and my hopes for a fairy tale romance for her and Harry, bias what I saw in the astrology.  If anything, I feel I was prejudiced on Meghan's behalf at the beginning, but that I no longer am.

I respect you as an astrologer, Alice, and I would hate to think you had such a poor opinion of me as an astrologer as it would appear you now do.  But if that is the case I can't help it; I have been saying what I believe to be true, which I believe the astrology backs up, and to say that it's because of bias is inaccurate.

Robynne, you're entitled to your opinion, as I've said before.  But if you're saying that my astrological interpretations are the result of envy of Meghan on my part, I can only say that you're wrong - and I don't think you're giving the astrological interpretations a fair reading. 

Dean, thank you very much.  What can I say but, I agree.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Francine on January 25, 2020, 06:45:32 AM
Thank you Dean, you are welcome Pam. Alice, maybe you are the one who doesn’t have an impartial view of the situation.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Robynne on January 25, 2020, 11:00:26 AM
Pamela,

No. I am saying that opinion was slanting that way, without a counter opinion to balance it back out, which Alice provided.

What is not being considered, is that you are now dealing with a family of three, not just individual personalities. This decision has been made by two new parents who are also considering, and jointly acting on behalf of their child. I admit that we all have our own view, and also admit that mine is quite possible coloured by understanding the point of view of new parents.

With respect..

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Alice Portman on January 25, 2020, 04:17:59 PM
Thank you Dean, you are welcome Pam. Alice, maybe you are the one who doesn’t have an impartial view of the situation.

Well, I do Francine.  I don't know Meghan and frankly don't care all that much what she and Harry do.  What I dislike is the international character bashing of someone who can't defend herself and who truly has done nothing wrong;  and what deeply, deeply distresses me is using astrology to do that. 

From the interview with Meghan's father it is clear that he wants money and I think her half-sister would shut up if she got money as well, but the royal family won't submit to blackmail from these people.  Meghan's half-brother was on national TV in Australia a presented a much more balanced point of view.

Over the years I have personally known three people who, for various reasons,  have been written up by the media - and in each case not one word of those articles was correct.   For this reason and others it has been many, many years since I have believed anything that the media presents; if it is important to me I double and triple check the information from other sources.  In Meghan's case many friends and members of the public support her, though this is rarely presented by the media.  Notice that her mother and mother's side of the family have not said anything negative and nor has her ex-husband.

Meghan is going through a transit that even a seasoned astrologer might dread - transiting Saturn-Pluto square her natal Pluto and activated by an eclipse, triggering her Pluto-Ascendant midpoint and then in a serial conjunction to her Descendant.  Any astrologer seeing that for a client would do all they could to help!  In my opinion astrologers should be offering help and kindness to this woman, as they understand what these transits can put you through.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: pdw on January 26, 2020, 06:42:38 AM
All, another look back for comparison and your consideration…

Harry has given up the crown, so to speak, to be happy with Meghan in a new life. King Edward VIII literally did the same on December 10, 1936, when he abdicated the throne for a new life and marriage to Wallis Simpson, an American divorcee.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Edward_VIII,_King_of_England

Some things that caught my eye:

-Both former Royals unsuccessfully negotiated beforehand to remain on their own terms (Edward had natal Sun square Mars, and so does Harry)

-When they were denied by the Establishment they re-acted powerfully and dramatically (with transiting Pluto forcefully pressing for personal change in Edward’s chart, conjunct his natal Mercury; and it is doing the same in Harry’s chart now, though perhaps more supportively, trine his natal Sun-Moon trine);

-Both departed in the midst of Neptune conditions potentially heightening their sense of love, creativity, ideals, and willingness to take a leap of faith, perhaps (T Neptune was squaring Edward’s natal Jupiter, MC ruler, and it is squaring Harry’s natal Mars). 

-Importantly, Edward had a natal Sun-Moon trine, and so does Harry… I think we astrologers can see this aspect directly referenced in Edward’s explanation, in a worldwide radio broadcast, a day after his abdication,   

"I have found it impossible to carry the heavy burden of responsibility and to discharge my duties as king as I would wish to do without the help and support of the woman I love." He added that the "decision was mine and mine alone ... The other person most nearly concerned has tried up to the last to persuade me to take a different course". (Wiki)

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 26, 2020, 08:08:24 AM
Once again I come back to this thread to discover that people have posted and I have not received notifications.  This is crazy.  Am I the only person experiencing this?
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: bestgranny on January 26, 2020, 08:19:00 AM
so many staff have left the employment of harry and meghan, as  Harry says to them "what ever Meghan wants she gets" so no matter what she is the boss.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 26, 2020, 08:23:49 AM
Pamela,

No. I am saying that opinion was slanting that way, without a counter opinion to balance it back out, which Alice provided.

What is not being considered, is that you are now dealing with a family of three, not just individual personalities. This decision has been made by two new parents who are also considering, and jointly acting on behalf of their child. I admit that we all have our own view, and also admit that mine is quite possible coloured by understanding the point of view of new parents.

With respect..

Robynne, I was planning to say that I did not understand why you felt the fact that Harry and Meghan now have a child would mean that they found it necessary to essentially quit the royal family and move across the ocean.  Then I was going to say, 'But while I don't follow your reasoning, let's just continue to agree to disagree.'

Then, actually just a few minutes ago as I was checking my phone, a newspaper article was brought to my attention with the title: Royal crisis: Motherhood is no walk in the park.  It's time to cut Meghan some slack, by Rosie Kinchen for the Sunday Times.  This one article has convinced me that I've been being too tough on her; after reading what this author had to say, I feel I should indeed cut Meghan some slack, and Harry too, as he is doing what he thinks is best for her.  I've never had a child myself, so who am I to judge her?

The article ends:

 Becoming a parent is a seismic shift.  It forces you to confront the decisions your parents made, to consider how you want your own child to grow up.  And you do not need to be a close friend of Meghan and Harry's to know that their demons may be harder to exorcise than most.

If that means pressing eject and retreating to a park on Vancouver Island for a while, so be it.  Bullying is ugly at the best of times, but when a woman holding a baby is fair game, we have to ask ourselves: what's gone wrong?


Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 26, 2020, 08:27:27 AM

 I don't know Meghan and frankly don't care all that much what she and Harry do.  What I dislike is the international character bashing of someone who can't defend herself and who truly has done nothing wrong;  and what deeply, deeply distresses me is using astrology to do that. 

Meghan is going through a transit that even a seasoned astrologer might dread - transiting Saturn-Pluto square her natal Pluto and activated by an eclipse, triggering her Pluto-Ascendant midpoint and then in a serial conjunction to her Descendant.  Any astrologer seeing that for a client would do all they could to help!  In my opinion astrologers should be offering help and kindness to this woman, as they understand what these transits can put you through.

These transits of Meghan's that you mention have been discussed on a few threads on this website some time ago, by several people.  Yes, they're extremely important, and cause for great concern.  Nonetheless, the possibility does exist that the manifestation these transits take could be a case of the person reaping what they had sown. 

You say we don't know her, and she has done nothing wrong, that it's all just gossip.  But as bestgranny has noted, there has been a tremendous turnover in the staff who worked for Meghan in England; it was practically a revolving door, people were leaving her employ so fast.  Now that is a fact, not gossip.

I read (and you will probably write this off as gossip) that she treated her staff poorly, e.g., was constantly screaming at them.  Now it's true that I don't personally know that, I just read it, but the fact remains that there really was a tremendous turnover in the people who went to work for her.  There must be a reason for this, and if she treated her staff poorly it would make sense.

 That would seem to corroborate other pieces of similar 'gossip', e.g., that she had spoken very harshly to members of Kate's staff (maybe screamed at them?), and made Kate herself cry at Meghan's wedding because of something she said about Kate’s daughter Charlotte’s dress.

 As Dean said, where there's smoke, there's probably fire.  And this is a lot of smoke.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 26, 2020, 08:41:44 AM
All, another look back for comparison and your consideration…

Harry has given up the crown, so to speak, to be happy with Meghan in a new life. King Edward VIII literally did the same on December 10, 1936, when he abdicated the throne for a new life and marriage to Wallis Simpson, an American divorcee.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Edward_VIII,_King_of_England

Some things that caught my eye:

-Both former Royals unsuccessfully negotiated beforehand to remain on their own terms (Edward had natal Sun square Mars, and so does Harry)

-When they were denied by the Establishment they re-acted powerfully and dramatically (with transiting Pluto forcefully pressing for personal change in Edward’s chart, conjunct his natal Mercury; and it is doing the same in Harry’s chart now, though perhaps more supportively, trine his natal Sun-Moon trine);

-Both departed in the midst of Neptune conditions potentially heightening their sense of love, creativity, ideals, and willingness to take a leap of faith, perhaps (T Neptune was squaring Edward’s natal Jupiter, MC ruler, and it is squaring Harry’s natal Mars). 

-Importantly, Edward had a natal Sun-Moon trine, and so does Harry… I think we astrologers can see this aspect directly referenced in Edward’s explanation, in a worldwide radio broadcast, a day after his abdication,   

"I have found it impossible to carry the heavy burden of responsibility and to discharge my duties as king as I would wish to do without the help and support of the woman I love." He added that the "decision was mine and mine alone ... The other person most nearly concerned has tried up to the last to persuade me to take a different course". (Wiki)

Thank you so much for this, pdw.  It's fascinating.

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on January 26, 2020, 08:42:43 AM
so many staff have left the employment of harry and meghan, as  Harry says to them "what ever Meghan wants she gets" so no matter what she is the boss.

Thank you, bestgranny!

Pam
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on February 27, 2020, 02:07:28 PM
Update:  The RCMP said today they are going to end their security protection of Harry and Meghan, which they have been supplying up to now, since the couple moved to Canada and began living in a seaside mansion on Vancouver Island. 

Who knew?  The royals had refused to discuss their security, saying it would jeopardize their safety if it were to be known how they were being protected.  Since up to now they have been recognized as Internationally Protected Persons they had to be given security, and as they were in Canada it was the RCMP who gave it.  But since, come March 31, they will officially no longer be royal and thus will lose the status of being Internationally Protected Persons, they will also be losing their RCMP security. 

It's not said who will be supplying it instead.  Presumably they will be getting it from somewhere, though if they have to pay for it themselves it will be VERY expensive.  The article says that it could cost more than $10-million dollars annually to protect them.  Maybe one of their rich friends could pay for it, e.g., the anonymous benefactor who's been letting them stay in that Vancouver Island mansion. 

Whether they choose to self-identify as royal or not, in fact they are, and as such they'll be a tempting target for any would-be kidnappers.  Imagine if some environmental zealot were to grab Archie to protest the gas pipeline going through Wetsu'wet'en territory!! 

They're going to need security.  I hope they get it arranged quickly. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-rcmp-set-to-end-security-protection-for-prince-harry-and-meghan/

P.S. - Sorry for the lack of astrology in this post.  I wanted to get that link down while it was in front of me, and I haven't had time to check their charts yet.  I've been meaning to do it for a few days, since reading that the formerly royal couple posted a comment on their website, I believe it was, basically saying the Queen had no right to tell them they couldn't use 'sussexroyal' as their brand.  They said she had no jurisdiction over the word 'royal' outside of the UK. 

This has got to be Meghan speaking.  Apparently they're really angry that all the time, effort and money they've put into the sussexroyal brand over the past two years has all been for nothing.  Think about it: they'd been preparing all this for two years - so basically ever since they got married.  Sheesh.

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on March 31, 2020, 09:55:30 AM
Hello Forum:

Regarding Harry & Meghan’s move to North America…according to reports, Harry would prefer Vancouver but Meghan likes Toronto better. Los Angeles appears to be their ultimate destination.

Chart 1 [attached] relocates Harry’s chart to Vancouver:

1) Jupiter in Capricorn is angular, conjunct the IC and square the ASC-DSC…this is an outdoorsy signature, appreciative of the grand expanse of the mountains and the freedom of the land and nature. It is for this reason that Harry would love Vancouver.

Chart 2 [attached] relocates Harry’s chart to Toronto:

2) Saturn is precisely on the ASC…for someone restructuring their life to fulfill more “personal” goals this placement makes sense; however, it also would alert me to a feeling of “isolation” in this location, being so far away from his familiar world.

3) Pluto, ruler of the Toronto ASC and ruler of his natal MC in 12th…does Harry become “The Invisible Man” in Toronto, completely disappearing from sight? Maybe this is what he wants at this point in his life; or, he falls apart here overwhelmed by feelings of powerlessness.

4) Moon in 7th square MC and ruling 9th…Toronto meets the needs (Moon) of the spouse’s (7th) career goals (MC), particularly in marketing and communications (9th - the 3rd of the DSC). Wow!

Chart 3 [attached] relocates Meghan’s chart to Toronto:

5) Uranus angular, on the IC and square the ASC-DSC…she finds Toronto an exciting place to be – unstuffy and liberating – probably more now than ever.

6) Uranus rules the Toronto 6th and DSC…she worked here in television; her whirlwind relationship with Harry started here.

7) Royal fixed star Regulus on ASC…Toronto, your queen has arrived.

8) Sun, ruler of the Toronto ASC in 12th…The queen may have arrived but the subjects aren’t interested? Could anything be worse for a Leo? Or, maybe, it is here that she disappears for a while to work “behind the scenes” to develop her “brand” before launching it.

Chart 4 [attached] relocates Harry’s chart to Los Angeles:

9) A very powerful Venus…final dispositor in Libra on the ASC and ruling ASC, square the MC-IC, and sextile Mars which rules the DSC…everything about LA feels harmonious to Harry & Meghan – it’s the place to be. I would never have believed this about Harry without the astrological confirmation. It is quite stunning – Hollywood Harry!

Regards,
Dean B.

I've highlighted in red Dean's comments on the possibility of Harry and Meghan moving to Los Angeles.  Apparently their decision to move there was a combination of their being afraid of getting 'trapped' in Canada because of the incipient closing of the border between Canada and the states, being afraid of actually catching Covid-19 (though why that should be any more likely in Canada than in the states I do not know), and the fact that the protective security they had been receiving from the Canadian government, paid for by the Canadian taxpayer, was going to be discontinued once they were officially no longer royal persons, i.e., as of today, March 31.

I really never dreamed they would move to LA; I stupidly thought Meghan liked Canada, and considered it to be home now.  But once she heard that her erstwhile 'friend', Sophie Gregoire Trudeau (wife of Justin Trudeau, the prime minister), had the virus, I guess that was the end of that.  Sophie was at a charity event in early March with several others, including actor Idris Elba and race car driver Lewis Hamilton.  Both Sophie and Idris Elba turned out to test positive for the Coronavirus, so it is most likely that they contracted the virus at that event.  Two days later, Prince Harry was at a different event which Lewis Hamilton was also attending, and they hugged each other.  So there existed the possibility that Harry could have been exposed to the virus.  Moving to Los Angeles wouldn't help.

 It would be interesting to know how they're going to pay for their security now, since Trump has said the American government won't be doing it.  It'll be expensive, even for them.  Meghan better get a lot of Voiceover work.

https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/17/harry-and-meghan-appropriate-measures-coronavirus

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/lifestyle/royals/prince-harry-and-meghan-markle-taking-government-advice-in-case-of-exposure-to-coronavirus/ar-BB11mh3t
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Panda on April 11, 2020, 09:27:09 PM
Jumping late to this thread to add a few points. Have enjoyed the varying perspectives, all well analyzed. There is always more than one side to the story with any situation, & one can see value in multiple astrological interpretations.

Re Meghan & Harry: it was always going to be bumpy, that was evident from the get go and from the charts. They have imo one of the most important aspects for longevity, natal sun (hers) sq saturn (his), near exact and in stubborn fixed signs. While sat-sun is hardly romantic/sexual, and not necessarily even harmonious, it is highly binding between two people, esp married ones.

The fixed signs make it more so; even if they split at some future point they will remain strongly bound, and likely to stay in each others orbit for some time to come.

re Meghan's 3rd house: moon-saturn-jup so tight together, sq mars in 12th, ruled by fussy virgo venus; of course she'd view communication as a main life calling, her coat-of-arms prepared for her at her marriage included a bird with a quill to represent her as communicator...it also means she (literally) can't 'shut up', needed parsimony in verbiage is lacking, that mars-saturn always has to have the dreaded last word. She is known for writing her own speeches & Ig/web content; many felt the tetchy comments issued during their exit drama were directly from her & construed by some as slightly disrespectful clapback at TQ & palace courtiers.

Final point, needed imo in any astrological take re current Windsors: eclipses were thought by the ancients (and some moderns!) to be portentous & associated with kings & royalty; Charles's entire life has been bracketed by solar eclipses. His heir/1st son born on one; he was married not once but TWICE on them. Of course to Diana, then again to Camilla -this 2nd wedding was moved back a week due to his attending funeral of Pope JPII; it resulted in his wedding landing on eclipse day exactly (talk about fate/karma!).

Prince William born on SE at 0 Cancer; this is being repeated this coming June by SE at same point. His natal SE is supposedly the last of a Saros series strongly associated with UK monarchs, starting with an eclipse coinciding with accession of William the Conqueror,1st Norman English king. Not sure if I read it here (Mr. Tyl always had interesting thoughts on the royals) that there is some train of thought that this run of English kings will end with this line...best to all here stay safe  :)
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: James Williams on April 12, 2020, 04:57:28 AM
Thank you Panda...
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on April 12, 2020, 11:22:01 AM
Jumping late to this thread to add a few points. Have enjoyed the varying perspectives, all well analyzed. There is always more than one side to the story with any situation, & one can see value in multiple astrological interpretations.

Re Meghan & Harry: it was always going to be bumpy, that was evident from the get go and from the charts. They have imo one of the most important aspects for longevity, natal sun (hers) sq saturn (his), near exact and in stubborn fixed signs. While sat-sun is hardly romantic/sexual, and not necessarily even harmonious, it is highly binding between two people, esp married ones.

The fixed signs make it more so; even if they split at some future point they will remain strongly bound, and likely to stay in each others orbit for some time to come.

re Meghan's 3rd house: moon-saturn-jup so tight together, sq mars in 12th, ruled by fussy virgo venus; of course she'd view communication as a main life calling, her coat-of-arms prepared for her at her marriage included a bird with a quill to represent her as communicator...it also means she (literally) can't 'shut up', needed parsimony in verbiage is lacking, that mars-saturn always has to have the dreaded last word. She is known for writing her own speeches & Ig/web content; many felt the tetchy comments issued during their exit drama were directly from her & construed by some as slightly disrespectful clapback at TQ & palace courtiers.

Final point, needed imo in any astrological take re current Windsors: eclipses were thought by the ancients (and some moderns!) to be portentous & associated with kings & royalty; Charles's entire life has been bracketed by solar eclipses. His heir/1st son born on one; he was married not once but TWICE on them. Of course to Diana, then again to Camilla -this 2nd wedding was moved back a week due to his attending funeral of Pope JPII; it resulted in his wedding landing on eclipse day exactly (talk about fate/karma!).

Prince William born on SE at 0 Cancer; this is being repeated this coming June by SE at same point. His natal SE is supposedly the last of a Saros series strongly associated with UK monarchs, starting with an eclipse coinciding with accession of William the Conqueror,1st Norman English king. Not sure if I read it here (Mr. Tyl always had interesting thoughts on the royals) that there is some train of thought that this run of English kings will end with this line...best to all here stay safe  :)

Hi Panda,

Thank you very much for your thoughts.  As you noted, with the coming June 21 Solar Eclipse landing bang on Prince William's Sun, this should indeed be very interesting.  Something of importance should happen, one would think, given everything that's been going on: Megxit, Covid-19, Prince Charles having been ill with the latter, the advanced age of the Queen and Prince Philip ...  You figure, things must be going to come to a head, one way or another.

Immediately prior to that Solar Eclipse is the Lunar Eclipse on June 5, at 15º42 Sagittarius; this closely conjoins Prince Harry's 11th-house Mars (at 16º57 Sagittarius).  And then the next Lunar Eclipse, on July 5 at 13º30 Capricorn, closely conjoins Harry's Ascendant (at 11º21 Capricorn) and squares his Venus, at 17º42 Libra nominally in the 8th house but almost in the 9th (Placidus cusp, 19º15 Libra).  I hesitate to speculate as to what exactly could happen; obviously there's a number of possible scenarios, and I haven't even looked yet at the charts of the Queen, Prince Philip and Prince Charles with regard to these eclipses.

The latest news re Harry and Meghan is that: 1. they've named their new charitable foundation Archewell;  2. in documents registering their new eco-friendly tourism firm Travalyst, Harry has dropped his surname Mountbatten-Windsor, his former casual surname 'Wales,' and his title His Royal Highness which, of course, he's forbidden to use now; instead he is referred to as Prince Henry Charles Albert David, Duke of Sussex.  (As someone wrote in a comment, wasn't the idea to dispense with titles?!) and 3. they are reported to have bought an ocean-front Malibu mansion from Mel Gibson for the sum of 12 million pounds.  It's certainly gorgeous; if they really did buy it, they have a very beautiful home now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8211711/Prince-Harry-Meghan-Markle-buy-Mel-Gibsons-12million-mansion-Malibu.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8211825/Prince-Harry-drops-royal-surname-leaving-Britain-California-wife-Meghan-Markle.html

Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Francine on April 12, 2020, 05:20:45 PM
Noel’s thoughts on Prince Charles:

http://noeltyl.com/discussion/index.php?topic=1995.0
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on April 12, 2020, 06:02:20 PM
Wow, Francine, thank you so much for this!  I'd completely forgotten about that thread, I must confess; it's fascinating to read it now, over ten years later.  Well, 2012 is long gone and William still hasn't succeeded to the throne, but Charles is still here too.  Maybe the coming eclipses in June and July will bring change.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Dean B on April 12, 2020, 08:05:42 PM
Hello Pam and Forum.

Charles' recent brush with coronavirus can be seen in Tr. Saturn square Harry's Pluto (in 9, r. MC) and MC-IC...isolation, restriction, and threat of loss to a parent; serious news from abroad and being far away, separated. 

We'll see if this theme repeats in other ways while the transit is in effect.

Also, for famous people, the 9th house is media publicity...what other people are saying about me...and with Tr. Saturn=Pluto (in 9), Harry and Meghan are not quite relevant right now as attention in Britain and globally is rightly focused on more pressing life and death matters. Harry may welcome this, or maybe not, as plans for their future endeavors, and the media attention they generate, take a back seat while much of the world is in lock-down.

In December-January, news about them was a constant - now, not so much.

Regards,
Dean B.
Title: Re: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle 'Stepping Back' as Senior Royals
Post by: Pamela Young on April 14, 2020, 07:05:04 AM
Hi Dean,

Thank you so much; your observations are right on, as always.  I am torn between feeling sorry for Harry and feeling, 'Well, you made your bed; now lie in it.'  If media reports can be believed, both he and Meghan are feeling kind of down since moving to LA, because it coincided with the Covid-19 lockdown; like everyone else, they are obliged to isolate themselves and can't see friends or family.  Meghan is said to be really depressed, because she's finally free but can't act on any of the plans she had. 

Well, she does in fact have transiting Saturn exactly conjunct her South Node, thus opposing her 1st-house North Node.  Transiting Mars had hit the same points, then went on to oppose her 1st-house Mercury, and is about to oppose her Sun, having first hit the midpoint of the latter two planets; and of course, a little while back it had opposed her natal 12th-house Mars and squared her MC.  All this in addition to Uranus, transiting through her 10th house, squaring her Mercury and showing no inclination to leave; and transiting Pluto is bang on her Descendant, with Jupiter having just passed it and moving into her 7th house, increasing all of Pluto's sturm und drang.  So I'd say it looks like it's true that she's not a happy camper at present.


It turns out, again if media reports can be believed, that they didn't buy that house of Mel Gibson's after all; that's okay, it leaves it open for me to buy (I wish!)  So I for one have no idea where exactly they're living, but I'm sure they're riding out the quarantine in very, very comfortable circumstances.  They're extremely lucky and it's not surprising that, in the present state of emergency, people are finding them irrelevant; with so many people out of work and many small businesses on the verge of going bust if they haven't already, it's hard to sympathize with the 'problems' of such an entitled couple.