Prediction vs Perfect Hindsight

[Ken Haining]

Hi OD'd James Alexander

So, what do you see in this Lunar Return Chart?  It seems you have three monthly return charts.  The regular Lunar Return Chart, the Lunar to Solar Return Chart, and the Sun to Moon Angle Return Chart.  That one, the Sun to Moon Angle Return Chart is yet another new one for me.  Have you used those much, and how would you compare them to the other two?  I would assume that each one of these Return Charts would have a different "flavor" to them.  That is, they would emphasize different facets of the month they represent.  If you would care to expound on how you use each of them, as opposed to the others, I would be interested in reading what you have to say, and I think others who read here would find it interesting as well.

Ken

[Halina]

Hi Ken, hopefully, any new tickets you purchase will have trans Moon in
the 2nd House of money.

[Ken Haining]

Hi Halina

When I pick up that ticket, and maybe also buy another one, in the early evening, the Moon will be in my 1st House.  It will be in mid Capricorn, opposite my Natal Moon-Uranus, sextile my Natal Venus, and broadly trine my Natal Jupiter.  It will also be trine Transiting Jupiter.  Not bad.  If I win another free ticket, I will get the next one when the Moon is in my 2nd House.

Just on a side note, the one House System that would place Transiting Moon in my Second House at this time would be the Whole Sign House System that Robert Hand switched to.  As my 1st Sign, aka, the "1st House," would have any planet in Sagittarius in the 1st Sign or House, any planet in Capricorn would be in my 2nd Sign or House.  I am still intrigued that Robert Hand, a life long astrologer who is greatly respected, has switched to what he calls the Whole Sign House System.  It is a very different way to look at a chart.  If Noel Tyl were still around, I would be very interested in his commentary on the subject.  Noel once noted that a fellow astrologer was looking at Noel's chart in a different House System than the Placidus House System that Noel used, and Noel said that this astrologer was looking at Noel's chart "through a different lens."  The proof is in the results.  If an astrologer is accurate in personal analysis and prediction, then whatever system that astrologer is using works for him or her.  When I get back on my feet, and if Robert Hand is still around and doing readings, I would be inclined to have him read my chart using his system. 

Thanks, Halina, for your constant encouragement.

Ken

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Hi Ken,

...first, they are all monthly charts; however, the first one (precessed Lunar) is entirely timed by the Moon positioning.  However, the lunar return to Sun and phase angle charts, take both the Sun and Moon into account, so speak of more wide-ranging effects.  ie. not just tied to lunar things, feelings, security, primary needs; but also to core self, personal definition, and ego related things 

Re: Phase Angle charts

One of the most reliable elements in astrology are the 8 phases of the progressed lunar cycle.  I reference it constantly in the sub-reddits.  It is completely based upon the distance between the progressed Sun and the progressed Moon; with its beginning point based on the distance between the Sun and Moon in the natal.  It is exactly this distance between the Sun and Moon in the natal that we are replicating in the Phase Angle charts. 

As far as in usage... I would say that the first two are alternate versions (in much the same way as direct/converse transits are two alternate versions) and tend to show our experience and feelings through that month.  In both, partile aspects often find some level of (important) expression during the month.  When we get to the Phase Angle chart, though...now, the Sun and Moon and their interconnection is the prime focus, so it speaks on both the emotional side, but also the more external core-self-influencing elements.  ie. in the choir, it has a more wide-ranging voice, able to "hit more notes" 

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Best is to use an example... I didn't want to bias the relative performance by cherry-picking, so I randomly chose a major event in a chart, where I know the birth chart is correct and where I know the complete background of the event.  In this case, we landed on my Wife's chart for when we first met. 

In order to best anticipate what astrology we should see, we should understand the event's background (relative to Uta). 

• Uta as a Libra rising and Venus in Taurus in the 8th opposite Neptune, she had always been dreaming/looking for her other.  She had had a few longer-term relationships, but nothing where she thought she had "found the one."  When we met, she was 36.  [I would expect symbolism relating to love and relationships and potentially family, so Venus, Node, and Moon to be emphasized.]
• We had been talking many, many hours daily for months and this in many ways, was exactly a consummation of what felt like an already running relationship.  [I would expect both some solidification of relationship and potential "consummation" factors, so potentially Saturn-Venus and an emphasized Mars.]
• At the time, I was married, so technically this was an "affair with a married man," the moment we got jiggly in reality.  [I would expect some indication of intrigue, so Neptune and potentially related with Mars-Venus.]
• Lastly, Uta was in Munich...there was a foreign man (presumed to be her man already, at the time) coming to be in her home with her for 10 days of Camelot.  [I would expect symbolism of a foreigner (Jupiter) man (Sun) and for a fairy tale 10 days potentially Neptune with Venus.]

Here, Moon and Venus angular at the Ascendant suggests joy, relationship, and good emotions.  Uranus-Saturn square suggests some excitement over something new, a break in the routine.  When we bring her natal chart surrounding, we see that the Return mirrors her natal angles, suggesting a very important self-definition month.



Here, Mars at the Ascendant speaks for itself.  We also see the idealized relationship and participation in an extramarital affair through Neptune-Venus.  Pluto-Moon is suggesting some emotional shock and the forthcoming complete transformation of everything she called "family and home."  When we bring in the natal surrounding, now we see how the angular Saturn symbolizes the solidification of a dreamed of relationship.



Then we get to the Phase Angle return and everything just explodes.    Angular Node-Jupiter-Uranus-Moon-Sun is speaking all about excitedly associating with a foreign man at its base level.  [For her, Asc-Node, she's all concerned about the association, relationship elements and the "meeting."  Jupiter-MC, the expanse of her horizon and the exposure to foreign, new things and seeing the grass greener somewhere else (with me).  Uranus-Moon-Dsc, emotional excitement and I have to say, Uranus-Moon describes me and the circumstance well.  Sun-IC, literally, her man (Sun) in her home (IC).]  Come on!!!  And, the reason for these particular types of charts (all three) is the expected and found angularity of important factors and partile aspects.  With the natal chart surrounding, everything lines up nicely.  Here, we see her natal Pluto-Sun square and Pluto from the return's creation of a T-Square, with the important addition of Venus from the return.  We see Mars in the return directly lining up with her natal IC and squaring Asc-Dsc. 

[Halina]

Hi Ken, here is the biwheel for the Saturday 10:12 draw, outside wheel
surrounding the inner wheel, which is your natal chart.
    So what was the result?  ....another free ticket, money or nothing.
Trans Moon in 2nd by Whole Sign Houses, and your natal Uranus, r2,
money activated by trans Jupiter,luck, r1 Asc/you.

          https://i.postimg.cc/mDDMh0b7/Haining-Ticket-Draw.jpg

          https://i.postimg.cc/BbBDrGsF/Haining-Whole-Houses-Draw.jpg

[Ken Haining]

Hi Halina

As is most often the case, I won nothing, and I had two tickets.  I already mentioned that I often buy lottery tickets, but have never won more than $200. 

I got the free ticket and purchased the other ticket, also a $1 ticket, at 6:17 PM, yesterday, September 23, 2023.

With Pluto, Neptune, and Chiron, and to some degree Uranus, bearing down on me, no surprise that my trial continues.  However, I am always looking for a way out. 

Thanks for your analysis of my "gambling addiction."  Not really.  I have seen the addicts, and I don't ever want to end up like that.  Nothing wrong with buying those tickets moderately, though.  You never know when fate might smile on you.

Ken

[Ken Haining]

Hi OD'd

You said:

"One of the most reliable elements in astrology are the 8 phases of the progressed lunar cycle.  I reference it constantly in the sub-reddits.  It is completely based upon the distance between the progressed Sun and the progressed Moon; with its beginning point based on the distance between the Sun and Moon in the natal.  It is exactly this distance between the Sun and Moon in the natal that we are replicating in the Phase Angle charts."

I looked over the charts you put up for your meeting up with Uta, and I was wondering if there is an easy to use calculator for these Phase Angle Charts?  How often do these charts occur?  As this is completely new to me, I am still trying to get the concept.  If it is based on the Progressed Sun and Moon coming to the same angle that they were at in the Natal Chart, then that would take a different amount of time for each one of these to occur than the other return charts. 

Did you astrologically plan the meeting with Uta, or was that just the way it played out?  Were the indications as precise on your Natal Chart and Phase Angle Chart?

I met my ex wife on November 10, 1975 at 2:15 PM in Tucson, Arizona.  I don't put her birth info up online as I don't have permission, but I am wondering what you might see on one of those Phase Angle Charts, based on my chart, in regards to that fateful meeting?  In my case, I didn't marry her until over four years later. 

It is good that things worked out so well for you with meeting with Uta.  The whole marriage, divorce, and remarriage scenario is an astrological study in itself. 

Ken

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Hi Ken,

Re: "If it is based on the Progressed Sun and Moon coming to the same angle that they were at in the Natal Chart..."

It's based on the transiting Moon coming to the same angle from the transiting Sun as the natal Moon had from the natal Sun.  (Therefore, these are monthly charts, with each one starting roughly one month from the last one...)

The angularity of return factors and the aligning of natal factors to the angles of the return are off the hook.

Here is a snippet from your Phase Angle chart for when you met your Wife in Tucson.  There is more in the chart, of course, Jupiter opposing Mercury across 3rd/9th, lining up with your natal Saturn-Sun conjunction and all squaring your natal Uranus-Moon conjunction.  Node is squaring Pluto and return Saturn and Moon are less than 0° 4' apart.

Natal Venus: 15° 55' Scorpio
Return MC: 15° 57' Scorpio



Re: Meeting with Uta

Nope, none of it was planned astrologically.  (as per the timing)   I did have Uta's chart, but it hadn't yet been rectified.  The astrology is interesting, but because of several factors that were coming together simultaneously, the astrology (likewise) is complex.  (leaving ex...breaking up the family...first time overseas...the sexual element...the solidification of relationship...etc.) 

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Here's your Phase Angle Return for almost all of November 1999. 



Eris is lined up with the 8th House cusp/powerpoint and came to directly oppose your natal Saturn-Sun conjunction.  We notice Venus at the Ascendant, which in this case is probably both good and bad.  Good in terms of your surviving the brain bleed.  Bad, in the sense that I think it symbolizes your daughter's experience around that time (Venus in fall on the Ascendant).  Venus rules your natal 5th.  Saturn's sesquisquare to Mars-Asc is exactly right for "falls." 

Here's a snippet of your Phase Angle chart, when you quit AOL at the beginning of Aug, 2004. 

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Grabbed a random one.  Jim posted about Theodor Herzl, so I checked, where, when, and how he died and generated the Phase Angle Return chart for his death on July 3, 1904, due to heart failure.



Here is Uta's Phase Angle Return for when we got married, in Tucson. 

[Ken Haining]

Hi OD'd James Alexander

Thanks for that thorough response.  I get it now.  Is there an online calculator for those Angle Return Charts that you would recommend? 

I take it that you find Eris reliable.  I have not experimented with Eris, but since you are using it, I will check it out. 

So, every Lunar month, when the Moon forms an upper square to the Sun that matches the angle on my Natal Chart between the Moon and Sun, that is the Angle Return Chart.  So, I am thinking the next one is a few days before my birthday, October 6, 2023, about 8:25 AM Central Daylight Time.  I will have to keep an eye on that. 

A lot of information.  I appreciate it.

Ken

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Hey Ken,

You're welcome...  you already know it makes me happy to share techniques.  No one has to adopt them, but I am thankful to those who at least check them out. 

Re: Phase Angle Return

There is one other advantage, in that in normal Lunar Returns and Lunar Returns to Sun charts, the Moon's position is fixed.  It will either (in the first case) be at its natal position or (in the second case) it will be at the Sun's natal position.  However, here, it is the distance between Sun and Moon that are fixed, so technically, in these Returns any zodiacal positioning is possible. 

Here is the timing for your upcoming Phase Angle Returns:

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Hi Ken,

It was an extremely formative event, when you quit being a pastor in early August 1995.  Certainly, we'd expect major astrological alignments (here, in the Phase Angle Return) that somehow describe it. 

To me, everything is perfect...

Your tight Nodal Axis-Jupiter square (your religious associational proclivity!) directly lines up with the Midheaven of this chart.  (affecting direction)  Then, we see Neptune, symbol of things dissolving and of some paradigm-driven change lining up with the 9th House cusp/powerpoint!  (one's religious affiliation!) 

Additionally, at this time, idealization (Mercury-Venus) was contacting the part of you that needs to go its own way and seek liberty. (your Moon-Uranus conjunction)  This complex is joined by Eris' square, throwing everything into chaos and the associated strife and discord that is symbolized by the opposition to your Saturn-Sun conjunction (core purpose and ego-definition).  Lastly, we see Mars squaring the Asc/Dsc axis, likely giving some potentially angered fight or other personalized energy behind the decision. 

...the only way it could be more on point, is if the chart displayed the situationally-descriptive words in English.    

[ODdOnLifeItself]

(Ken) Here is the Phase Angle Return for when your son's friend helped you guys out and you got a place to stay, temporarily.

Neptune opposite a Sun (in rulership)-Venus conjunction (charity, positive relating).  Moon (in exaltation) effectively making it a T-Square configuration.  (bringing in home and primary needs elements, positively)   Saturn joins in by making the sesquisquare/semisquare aspects to (Sun-Venus) - Neptune.  (giving some security/foundation)  Saturn is in exaltation and would be expected to give some benefit.  Here, Saturn rules the 3rd House... that being the 11th House (friends) of your 5th (son).  (who I'm assuming somehow took on responsibility on your behalf, or that your Son's relationship to the friend somehow earned the help...) 



Here's a snippet for when you got more permanent shelter in 2011.  (Phase Angle Chart MC)



By the way, I did a little test...  I took two charts that were five minutes apart (Jan 1, 2000, 12 pm -> 12:05 pm) and then did the current Phase Angle Return for today's date.  The two Ascendants in the natals are 2° 33' apart.  The two Ascendants in the respective Phase Angle Return charts are 2° 10' apart.  This suggests good news for those who are relatively close to their birth time, but aren't dead on.  (in contrast to your case, where we know it's exact)  Because of the specificity of your birthtime, you see all the amazing against chance line-ups of key factors to the Angles.  For round-about birthtimes, they'll be splattered around the target, slightly.       (but still totally usable!)

How about the Phase Angle chart for (the relatively recent) death of Bob Barker. 



Death of Father-in-Law (relative to his own chart) (Phase Angle Return)