Foundation of Islam

[Alice McDermott]

Does anyone have the 'birth data' of the foundation of Islam?

I think I have it on one of my old computers but can't find it, so would be grateful if someone could give it to me.

Alice McDermott

[Maz]

Another important year (month unknown) is 610CE where Muhammad received his first revelation and command to convey the message of Islam. This occurred in Mecca.

I would be reluctant to accept the date of the birth of Islam as being the start of the Islamic calendar or the date of his return to Mecca where he finally triumphed over the city. I am more inclined to accept a date of  when he received the first revelation as this appears to be more logical.




Maz

[Maz]

Alice,

Just had an 'obviously' moment...

The first revelation occurred in Ramadan in the year 610 CE. There are 4 known dates that this could have occurred which are 23rd, 25th, 27th and 29th Ramadan. These dates are known as the Night of Power or the Night of Destiny and is when the Quran was revealed, and this is where I would say, the first revelation took place.

These dates correspond to;

23 Ramadan 610 = August 20 610
25 Ramadan 610 = August 22 610
27 Ramadan 610 = August 24 610
29 Ramadan 610 = August 26 610

Also, it is worth noting that the night of August 19 610 before midnight (e.g. 18:00 - 23:59, Aug 19 610) in Western terms is normally classed as the night of August 20 610 in Islamic/Eastern terms.



Maz

[Maz]

I think that the birth of Islam AND the start of the Islamic calendar are 2 separate issues. There is much debate about this and the more information that is presented, the more easier it is for a person to arrive at their own decision.

It most definitely started before 622CE.

In 610 - the first revelation to Muhammad in the Cave of Hera a few miles outside Mecca. A few people accepted Islam soon after, and certainly, very, very soon after this event.

In 614 - the first public declaration was made for people to practice Islam as previously, it was propagated in secrecy.

In 622 - the exodus of most of the Muslims of Mecca to Medina (but not all of them) - and it is this event which coincides with the birth of the Islamic calendar but does not coincide with the birth of Islam which is the point in question.

I had a look at the website (http://www.30-days.net/reveal/beginings/) and think that the wording contained "....This date marks the beginning of Islam and the Muslim era..." is ambiguous. I think it should read "This date marks the beginning of Islamic Calendar and the Muslim Era".

Medina also does not mean "City of the Prophet". It means City. The full name of the city of Medina in Saudi Arabia is "Medina al-Munawara" and this means "The City of Light" or "The Illuminated City".

There are other errors contained in www.30-days.net/reveal/beginings and I would not, therefore, waste my time giving it any more credence (even the website address is spelt wrong!).

I would go with one of the 4 dates mentioned earlier for the birth of Islam (until I am presented with reputable evidence to suggest otherwise) and I agree with July 16 622 (1/1/1 AH) as being the start of the Islamic Era. I think the website mentions Sep 24 622!




Maz

[Maz]

Zarathu,

I think you are quite right in what you say. There are many sources and one of the main problems is the ineffective recording of dates. Only the approximate year was recorded and also things like, "about 3 or 4 years after such and such" were also common.

I have also spoken to a few scholars and students of Islamic studies during the day and they are of the opinion that Islam can be assumed to have started when the Quran was revealed. This occurred on 21 or 23 or 25 or 27 or 29 Ramadan, 610. That is, another date to the one I added in an earlier post. Although the exact date was known by Muhammad, in one of his "speeches", he did not give the date but told Muslims to pay heed to the last 5 odd-numbered days of Ramadan which are all followed 'religiously' each Ramadan. He also thinks that these 5 dates are irrespective of the sect of Islam that is followed.

Again, I think you are quite right with the start or foundation of Christianity. I have looked at Campion's book where he does have a section on Jesus and the Christian calendar, the Christian calendar as 6pm, 31st Dec, 1BC (or 00:00, 1st Jan, 1AD) and the start of the Muslim era as starting 6pm 16 July 622 but also mentions that Muhammad in fact arrived in Medina, 2nd July 622.



Maz

[Alice McDermott]

Again, I think you are quite right with the start or foundation of Christianity. I have looked at Campion's book where he does have a section on Jesus and the Christian calendar, the Christian calendar as 6pm, 31st Dec, 1BC (or 00:00, 1st Jan, 1AD) and the start of the Muslim era as starting 6pm 16 July 622 but also mentions that Muhammad in fact arrived in Medina, 2nd July 622.

Maz

Hi Eric and Maz

Thanks for all the work on my question.

Re the Foundation of Christianity:  The current Christian religion was founded at the First Council of Nicaea held on the Summer Solstice of 21st June 325 in Nicaea - now Iznik, Turkey.  You can get a considerable amount of information from this article http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=70

Previous to that Christian beliefs were a mishmash mixture of a number of belief systems.  Constantine wanted to found an official State Religion and chose Christianity.  The Nicaean Council set up a belief system that then became 'Christian Doctrine' .

Attached is a chart for midday of 21st June 325.  I can't find what date and time the Council finished and the new doctrine was set in motion, but never-the-less this chart is most interesting, with Sun conjunct Saturn square Mars, Jupiter conjunct Uranus and Venus square Neptune.

Alice McDermott

[Alice McDermott]

Hi again

I found this chronology for the Foundation of Islam on Wikipeda  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

"Chronology of the second Hijra

    * Day 1: Thursday 26 Safar AH 1, 9 September 622
          o Left home in Mecca. Stayed three days in the Cave of Thawr near Mecca.
    * Day 5: Monday 1 Rabi' I AH 1, 13 September 622
          o Left the environs of Mecca. Traveled to the region of Yathrib.
    * Day 12: Monday 8 Rabi' I AH 1, 20 September 622
          o Arrived at Quba' near Medina.
    * Day 16: Friday 12 Rabi' I AH 1, 24 September 622
          o First visit to Medina for Friday prayers.
    * Day 26: Monday 22 Rabi' I AH 1, 4 October 622
          o Moved from Quba' to Medina.

The Muslim dates are in the Islamic calendar extended back in time. The Western dates are in the Julian calendar. The Hijra is celebrated annually on 8 Rabi' I, about 66 days after 1 Muharram, the first day of the Muslim year. Many writers confuse the first day of the year of the Hijra with the Hijra itself, erroneously stating that the Hijra occurred on 1 Muharram AH 1 or 16 July 622.

All dates given above may have occurred about 89 days (three lunar months) earlier. The Muslim dates may be those recorded in the original Arabic calendar and their month names may not have been changed to account for the (probably three) intercalary months inserted during the next nine years until intercalary months were prohibited during the year of Muhammad's last Hajj (AH 10)."

I think the religion of Islam is probably different to the Prophet Muhammed's visions and spiritual life.  A religion is an official, social organisation and often has little to do with the original spiritual concepts.

From this chronology it looks like Muhammed decided to move to Medina after Friday prayers on 24th September 0622 and moved on 4th October 0622.  As these dates are designated as the start of the Islamic calendar they are probably close to the correct dates for the religion itself.

The September-October chart (done for sunrise) has a difficult Venus conjunct Mars square Saturn, clearly describing the suppression of a strong sexual element, probably manifesting as hiding women away and making them dress to completely cover themselves.

The July chart has Moon in Aries conjunct Pluto - again suggesting an emphasis on suppressing the female sex.  This chart has Venus conjunct Saturn.

The 4th Oct chart (calculated for Sun-MC) seems to also fit very well.  It has Pluto square Moon in Cancer, suggesting the search for a home base and  Mars, the ruler of Aries Pluto, in Scorpio suggests a warrior religion.  Mars and Pluto are in mutual reception.

The religion was founded on a Uranus-Neptune conjunction/parallel so all contacts of Uranus-Neptune in the skies should have a strong effect on Islam.

Muhammed had his first revelation on the night of August 10th 0610.  The actual time is not given and was probably never recorded. I have chosen 10.00 pm because of Pluto conjunct antiVertex and Mars on IC.  I have found that almost anything to do with angels has a strong Mars or Pluto component, there doesn't seem to be anything gentle about them.  It also seems to me that religions started by angels always involve the suppression of women, are often violent and warlike and insist on the worship of a single god.

Thank you for your help and research

Alice McDermott

[Alice McDermott]

I forgot to attach the 4th October chart.

Here it is

Alice

[Halina]

Hi Alice,  I click on your Islam Charts then click on print.  Your chart is printed but only three-quarters of it.  The right side of the chart gets cut off.  How come?  Trying printing it yourself Alice to see if you have the same problem.  I don't feel like repeating all the birth data in Solar Fire to get a correct chart.             Halina

[Alice McDermott]

Hi Halina

I don't know what is causing that.  It might be because it is posted on this forum.

Try a right click then Copy Image or Save Image As and put it onto a Word or Publisher page on your own computer and then print it.

Alice

[Maz]

Halina,

I tried to open all the charts and they opened without any problems.

If you right click on the attachment name and not the image, and select "Save target as"... enter the filaname you want in the dialogue box and it should save it. They are all there and can be printed by right clicking etc.

If you are downloading the images and then using copy/paste through say MS WORD, it may be the margins settings in the program that need to be adjusted. If the margins are too wide the image will be printed on 2 pages. Check the margins as well....


Maz

[Maz]

Alice,

I was aware of the Council of Nicea but was unaware of the fact that it was to establish Christianity and that the First Meeting of the Council of Nicea could be considered as the foundation of Christianity. Very interesting piece of information. Thanks.

I looked again at Campion's book and (surprisingly) he doesn't mention this but he does have another interesting snippet of information and chart where he says this....

"The greatest event in the Christian calendar after the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension was the descent of the holy spirit to the disciples on the Jewish festival of Pentecost after which they became leaders of the new religion able to perform miracles and preach the gospel. On the basis of the evidence in Acts 2, Stephen James has worked out that this miraculous event probably occurred at between 07:57 and 08:57 am LMT, 24 May 33AD in Jerusalem. This moment can therefore be seen as that for the foundation of the Christian religion."

I thought I would add this to the database of dates you already have.

Also, your mention of "The Muslim dates are in the Islamic calendar extended back in time. The Western dates are in the Julian calendar. The Hijra is celebrated annually on 8 Rabi' I, about 66 days after 1 Muharram, the first day of the Muslim year. Many writers confuse the first day of the year of the Hijra with the Hijra itself, erroneously stating that the Hijra occurred on 1 Muharram AH 1 or 16 July 622" are important and have really prompted me to do some more fact-finding on the 'Hegira - calendar start' scenario. I have spent much time on determining and creating an Islamic timeline for this period and looking back at my notes because of this post, I have in fact noticed a discrepancy of about 87 days or so which I couldn't account for. Nice....


Maz

[Alice McDermott]

Alice,

I was aware of the Council of Nicea but was unaware of the fact that it was to establish Christianity and that the First Meeting of the Council of Nicea could be considered as the foundation of Christianity. Very interesting piece of information. Thanks.

Maz

Hi Maz

The Council of Nicaea established Christianity as we know it, as a social and political structure.  It is nothing like the original form of Christianity as the Council threw out a lot of books, knowledge, legends etc., that didn't 'gel' with the kind of religion Constantine wanted as a State Religion.  Here is a quote from Wikipedia; "Most significantly, it resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Nicene Creed. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent general (ecumenical) councils of Bishops' (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy— the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom."

So I think this Council formed the establishment of the present Christian religion, which, if you read the article link, is a mishmash of several different belief systems current at the time. 

I wish I had the date and time that the Nicene Creed was accepted by the Council as I am sure that would be the fully correct chart for the Christian Religion, but I haven't been able to find it and it quite possibly wasn't recorded, so the date the Council opened will have to do.

Thanks for the date of Pentecost.


Alice McDermott

[Alice McDermott]

Muhummad died on th 8th June 0632.  I thought I would progress and direct the possible charts for Islam to that date to see if any showed the death of the leader.

I was interested to see that transiting Pluto had moved into Taurus (1Taurus29) and that Solar Arc Pluto was on the same degree, almost to the minute at 1Taurus26 for the 24th September chart  and at 1Taurus53 for the 4th October chart.  This suggests that this degree is important for the angles of the possible natal chart.

In the 24th September chart Secondary Progressed Venus at 21Scorpio34 had moved to quincunx natal Pluto, In the 4th October chart Secondary Progressed Mars at 21Scorpio41 had moved to conjunct natal Venus and quincunx natal Pluto. (see attached charts)

The quincunx aspect frequently (almost always) present when death occurs so this is a valid measurement.  This suggests that the position of Pluto is emphasised in the natal charts and that it may also be connected to the 8th house in some way.  Alternatively that 21-22 Scorpio is important in the natal chart.

I am sure that the correct date and time can be further narrowed down by checking the dates for important events in Islam, but I just don't have the time at present.

I will watch these two degrees with great interest so see if they are active in any current events connected to Islam.

Alice McDermott