Author Topic: Lost Horary Book  (Read 22036 times)

rj_smith

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Re: Lost Horary Book
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2012, 07:07:49 AM »
From pages 78-81 in her 1994 book with Marion March entitled, "The Only Way to Learn about Horary and Electional Astrology, Volume 6"


Hey Jim...

Thanks for the missing objects stuff...Interesting....

Hmmm. The only way to learn about Horary and Electional Astrology.. ?!?

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

You know, I have always had difficulties with McEvers and March's wording of their titles and texts.

They penned another book, as well, called  "The only way to learn Astrology."

Those titles... kind of strike ME... as arrogant and egotistical.

It's much like my good friend Halina... touting Frawley as...the only way to interpret sports astrology...? LOL

We in the astrological world... need to keep away from these types of pretensive and frankly arrogant thinking...

The title of the book... does not 'make' the book, just as the dress or appearance of the monk... does not define the monk or priest...

Another book title I cannot comprehend is  "The Martial Art of Horary Astrology " by Lee Lehman...

What in her book speaks directly about the martial arts...  Please explain to me why Horary astrology is a martial art... ?

Martial arts are martial arts, while the horary arts are totally different...

How does Lee Lehman, apparently a 1st Degree Black-Belt in ITF Taekwon-Do, figure that horary astrology is a martial art...?

I'm a 3rd Dan in G.T.F. Taekwon-Do, (therefore, senior in rank to Ms. Lehman...) and a former coach for the 2006 Canadian National TKD Team, yet, I cannot see the connection... or maybe I am just stupid...and/or blind???

Perhaps the 'godmother' of horary practicioners... Diana Stone... (Sun in Aquarius, Virgo rising) was right when she told me, last year, that in horary astrology, the astrologer always decides whether the chart can be interpreted (or not?) and the astrologer always has the right to decide which rules to follow and which to disregard...

That kind of thinking...flies in the face of what McEvers and March (and Halina) says, does it not ?

curiously,


R.J.













« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 07:24:18 AM by R.J. Smith »

Offline James Williams

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Re: Lost Horary Book
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2012, 11:45:28 AM »
Hey R.J.

Yes, McEvers developed her own unique horary system which she claims to have worked for her over the years.

From the back cover of the book you mention by Lehman, "Horary astrology shares with martial arts training the teaching of a combination of method and intuition.  In both, repetitive practice results not merely in good technique, but ultimately in Art that goes beyond all technique.  Horary possesses this martial quality because it is the only branch of Astrology that functions exclusively in the moment.  With nativities, we are always going beyond the birth moment with transits, progressions, etc.  Because Horary is immediate, the skills must be sharper, and cut deeper."
"There is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us." "  (Jesus).

rj_smith

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Re: Lost Horary Book
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2012, 02:31:02 PM »

From the back cover of the book you mention by Lehman, "Horary astrology shares with martial arts training the teaching of a combination of method and intuition.  In both, repetitive practice results not merely in good technique, but ultimately in Art that goes beyond all technique.  Horary possesses this martial quality because it is the only branch of Astrology that functions exclusively in the moment.  With nativities, we are always going beyond the birth moment with transits, progressions, etc.  Because Horary is immediate, the skills must be sharper, and cut deeper."


Hello again:

I have read and re-read what Lee Lehman has written.  Unfortunately, I don't have her book, so the reference that you provided is new to me.

What can one say about Lee Lehman. She's an intelligent woman. She also taught astrology at Kepler College and has got a PHd in Botany.... Maybe that's why she's such a 'pro' at growing man eating plants...  :D

Seriously, the martial arts...in my view, are a combination of harmonizing or coordinating something military or warlike, and also, something artistic and combining the two into a unique artform as well as, a lifelong philosophy...and actually a way of life...

Martial arts are also coodinating the daily mind, body, and spiritual, into a greater or 'higher' purpose, such as the attainment of peace, and perhaps, the greatest purpose of the martial arts... ?

I can tell you that astrology is very much a fringe art, much like martial arts, and it is NOT a widely accepted practice in many, many communities around the world... In my own community, some people hold it against me that I am both an astrologer and a martial artist...  I am frequently negatively stereotyped, by many people...and have been for years... My own media career has floundered, for years, because of those other two loves...

This whole world... loves to stereotype people... because it's handy and convenient...

Ms. Leeman claims that Horary astrology takes the mental elements and discipline aspects of m.a. and other aspects of the martial arts for interpretative purposes. Maybe she is right there, we must remember that interpretive horary astrology (in my mind) is primarily an air signed or Mercury like, activity, in my view... Maybe that is why so many of us air signs gravitate to horary astrology, because it is mostly about the mind and objective problem solving, a priority of the air signs, in general ?

Therefore...unlike martial arts training, it is not so critical whether the querent 'believes' in the philosophy of horary astrology or not to make the chart work. Martial arts, on the other hand, require a singleminded-ness of purpose from the practioner, in order for it to work properly.

I will tell you this..,many people gravitate to both horary astrology and martial arts with a hidden agenda...Therefore, the goal of an horary astrologer is usually to find out what that agenda might be...Therefore, we tend to be detectives in a sense ?

I can also tell you from 30 years of private practice that the average horary querent or client is certainly not as focused as we martial artists are... People are very scattered today and everyone has a billion things on their mind..

The late Llewellyn George even acknowledged this in his encyclopedia, A to Z. He writes on page 738 that: " approximately one out of every 10 (horary charts) is not radical."

In horary work, the feelings and pre-conceived opinions of the querent are weighed and analysed versus what the universal energies are doing, at the moment that the question is asked ?

Therefore, a horary analysis is a contrived, situational relationship that exists between one human being, his one question, and the universe...

I would agree with Ms. Lehman that energies such as intuition and mental focus are at play in the horary arts, but ONLY IN THE ARM-CHAIR HORARY ARTISTS MIND, does that ALWAYS happen... Many people forget what time they asked the question, and thus, many re-ask the (haphazard?) question more than once !  But again, to equate horary astrology as a 'martial art' is a misnomer to me. It's WRONGLY labelled !

One of the pitfalls of continious martial arts training (if I may say?) is that it takes over your WHOLE LIFE...

This is not necesarily a bad thing either...but it IS worth mentioning...

If Ms. Lehman trained to black-belt level in Taekwon-Do, this is what probably happened to her own life, as well ?

The continious Taekwon-Do training likely affected EVERYTHING is her life, including her horary work...

So, maybe this is why she sees horary astrology as ANOTHER martial art.

The larger question then, is martial arts training (or even serious training in astrology?), also limiting, since it takes over your whole life... LOL  Therefore, is IT a limitation ?  It could well be !

In his book, the Tao of Jeet Keun Do, the late Bruce Lee once pointed out that...sometimes, one has to put limitations... on one's OWN limitations...

In astrology, the planet of limitations is know to us as SATURN !?  However, what Bruce Lee is saying that... in order to grow as a person, you have to block or cap your own personal limitations, (whatever that might be?) for your own personal good. In other words, you have to go BEYOND SATURN, to make things work...

So, I have tried to seperate my astrology work from my martial arts work, over the years.  I have also tried to limit my thinking in one occupation and have tried to be more objective when doing astrology...
 
Being a person with many natal planets in Gemini, I also have been able to carefully transition between occupations for years and I have been careful to seperate my astrology work from my martial arts work...and other careers going on..

Unfortunately, the internet tends to expose ALL OF one's different personalities and personal interests, very well, so like a clothes line drying clothes in the sunshine, all of one's PERSONAL LAUNDRY is also there for everyone to see...dirty laundry included...

HOW WONDERFUL could THAT BE ! (not !)

So yes, like astrology and the martial arts, there are definitely limitations with new technology as well, and like Bruce Lee once aptly said... you have to put " limitations on your limitations.. "

About what Lehman says ? The jury is still very much hung there, unfortunately...

Perhaps Lee Lehman needs to make up her mind, whether to propogate horary astrology or the martial arts...

I tend NOT to propagate my own martial arts philosophy onto the astrological community at large, as I think that that would be unfair.   Maybe Ms. Lehman likes to dominate the minds of others, but horary astrologer is always a personal choice, as well ?  

If some of you don't happen to like horary astrology, I can live with that, too !  However, this ancient artform will continue to flourish, indefinitely, whether we like it or not  !

Does Horary astrology 'need' martial arts for its survival... Probably not...  Both arts will likely continue to survive, as they have been ingrained in human thinking and nature for centuries...



yours truly,


R.J.










 











« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 07:02:25 PM by R.J. Smith »

Offline Hudson Valley Astrologer

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Re: Lost Horary Book
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2012, 01:38:06 PM »
Hey all,

I've been dormant for sometime but was alerted to this thread by Google alerts. Thanks for the topic.

Recently I had cause to consult my library on a Horary question and found March & McEvers book quite helpful (title aside).

from page 8, "These strictures are based on ancient rules which denied answers to questions. I have not always found that they apply, but you can and should judge for yourself." She then list a few of these strictures for students/readers to test on their own.

My understanding concerning this art form is that while it is heavily dependent on rules and ancient strictures it is also extremely individualistic. March and McEvers developed and presented a style that worked for them but would encourage students to do 'whatever worked in their experience'. Frawley I understand may be a bit more rigid. I had his birth data around here somewhere and will try and dig it up.


Hudson Valley Astrologer

Offline waterbird

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Re: Lost Horary Book
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2012, 02:25:04 AM »
Hudson Valley Astrologer,

Yes please find Frawley's birth data.

Myself, I follow the Ancient's and 'the only way to learn Astrology' is not the best way I fear.

water bird.

Offline James Williams

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Re: Lost Horary Book
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2012, 04:18:43 AM »
water bird, Joan McEvers unique horary system seemed to work for her and her students...perhaps you could share why you fear it is not the best way?!
"There is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us." "  (Jesus).

Offline waterbird

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Re: Lost Horary Book
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2012, 02:36:09 PM »
Jim,

As I said, I prefer the Ancient methods and that's all! New students may feel put off the subject if they don't find the answer in 'The Only Way' series of books. There is never just one way to do things which was echoed by one of my first teachers and we know that many methods do work.

We are free to sift through the piles of info and use the methods that we feel work best for the self. After all we are learning about the Universe, a huge subject.

water bird

Offline Alice Portman

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Re: Lost Horary Book
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2012, 05:01:34 PM »
John Frawley has always been quite open about his birthdata, so I am happy to post it here.

He was born on the 16th May 1955 at 12.05 am, London, UK, here is his chart



Note the Sun-Saturn opposition, with Saturn being angular and ruler of the Ascendant.  On a thread quite a while ago I mentioned that many traditional astrologers had a strong Sun or Moon aspect to Saturn.  Waterbird do you have this configuration?

Also note the ruler of the MC conjunct the Vertex in the 8th house.  This gives a 'destined' career, something that one feels almost compelled to do - a vocation rather than just a career; as it is in Leo, John became very famous for his work.

Alice McDermott

Offline waterbird

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Re: Lost Horary Book
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2012, 07:57:33 PM »
Hello Alice,

I have Saturn R/ @ 27 Aquarius in 10th in out of Sign Quincx to my 0.58 Leo sun in 4th!

Thank you for the JF data Alice. Appreciated.

I know several people who are very clever - good minds - with a 5th House Mercury!

water bird.