Here is stuff on the heliocentric nodes

by Carl Payne Tobey

In opening a discussion of the interpretation of planetary aspects, it is necessary to introduce the planetary nodes. The majority of the astrologers of the early part of the twentieth century have ignored these nodes, although they were very important to the ancients, as is indicated by the terms "Dragon's Head and Dragon's Tail applied to the north or ascending node and the south or descending node of the Moon. Today we call them the lunar nodes.

It is quite easy to understand why they are ignored when we realize that these astrologers were trying to bridge the gap to what was fashionable in the world of so-called science. They were trying to adjust to the environment They were trying to fit their subject into the errors of scientific style. Like so many other things, scientific theories and hypotheses come and go, live for a day and die. At that time, it was popular to think in terms of the ether of Sir Oliver Lodge, in terms of vibrations and waves. So astrologers had to explain their subject in terms of ether, vibrations and waves. It was pointed out that when light reached the place or point of a planetary node, there was nothing there for light to bounce against, and so light went right on. How could a mathematical point have an effect? And so the nodes were forgotten and ignored.

Grant Lewi placed great emphasis on the nodes. Statistics of RCA Communications, Inc., in connection with their research dealing with the correspondence that exists between planetary motion and magnetic disturbances that interfere with shortwave radio reception, placed emphasis on the nodes. Letters from two astrologers unknown to each other asked us the same question. Did we know why people born with the Sun near 13-Gemini or 13-Sagittarius seemed to have so much difficulty in making marriage a success? Of course, this meant success according to orthodox standards which are quite inadequate, but it was interesting to note that each astrologer had unconsciously called the exact position of the nodes of the planet Uranus (Individual Reform Guide and Seventh House principle). Marriage is difficult where this principle is concerned because marriage is a Man-made inst;itution that was molded in ignorance of this principle. When he wrote the Ten Commandments General Moses had his intellectual limitations.

Our own statistical investigations gradually led to indications that mere mathematical points (we will supplement this term later), the planetary nodes, are more important than the planets themselves, and this was the beginning of our realization that an entirely new conception of astrology was essential, an astrology unlimited and unhampered by the dogma of modern scientific hypotheses. When you deal with mathematical points, mathematical lines and mathematical planes which can have no material counterpart, you are in the realms of mathematics and abstraction. A mathematical point has no dimensions. A mathematical line has but one dimension. A mathematical plane has but two dimensions. There is no material counterpart until you reach three dimensions, and when you go on to a fourth dimension, you again have no material counterpart. You have again entered the world of abstraction.

You can use a pencil to illustrate a mathematical line, but it is inaccurate, because a pencil line has width and therefore two dimensions. You can use a sheet of paper to illustrate a plane, but it is inaccurate because the paper has thickness and is three dimensional.

We were approachng our later view that astrology could not be a causal phenomenon; but must be considered as a matter of mathematical expression. We cannot exp1ain why snowflakes and crystals follow the same pattern that bees follow when building the cells of their hives (the hexagon) except to say that the whole thing is a matter of abstract mathematical expression. Although the hexagon is the most economical means of building these cells, we can hardly visualize each hive of bees employing intellectual bees who labor over a drawing board computing the mathematics of what shaped room would require the least wall space to house the greatest content. Neither can we say that snowflakes cause bees to build six-sided cells. Nor can we say that snowflakes freeze in six-sided fashion because they are copying the bees. Yet a hexagon room enclosed by 60 feet of wall will contain over 259 square feet of floor area, while a square room enclosed by the same amount of wall will contain but 225 square feet of floor space. A room shaped as an equilateral triangle with 60 feet of wall will contain only 141 square feet of area. Of course, a circular room would contain a greater ratio of area to enclosure, but you can't fit circular rooms together. The more equal sides a room has, the greater the floor area, but if a room has more than six sides, you can't fit the rooms together. Among polygons of equal sides you can fit together only hexagons, squares and triangles.

Mathematically, the bee would appear further advanced than Man. He builds warehouses out of hexagonal shaped rooms while Man builds warehouses out of square or rectangular rooms. We find a strange parallel in the fact that the ancient astrologers regarded planetary aspects based on parts of hexagons as harmonious and aspects based on parts of squares as discordant. The sextile aspect is merely one side of a hexagon, while a trine aspect is one side of an equilateral triangle or two sides of a hexagon. An opposition aspect can be considered as either two squares or three sides of a hexagon, and oddly, astrologers have disagreed as to whether the opposition aspect is harmonious or discordant. It has been our experience that the aspect brings tension, problems and worries while forming, but produces CHANGE that solves the problems and gives re-lief while separating. If there is any astrological symbolism behind the six-pointed star of the Jewish church and the four-point cross of the Christian church, then one would appear to Indicate harmony and the other discord. Yet, the advanced astrologer realizes that the l, 10, 7, 4 House Cross (Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius, Taurus) is something that can be transcended through understanding and higher knowledge or wisdom, while those astrologers who look upon the story of Christ as symbolism see Christ, not as a man but as an abstract principle. To them, it is the rise of the individual above materialism and into the abstract realms. Whether Christ ever lived as a man is beside the point. The principle is the same.

Just as astrology is concerned with geometrical and therefore mathmatical figures, we find these figures throughout the mineral world. Different minerals are made up of crystals of different geometrical patterns. Not all minerals follow the hexagonal pattern. Salt crystals form the square or 90-degree angle. This is true of other minerals, but the hexagonal pattern is quite common. The crystal mines of Arkansas seem to show everything in accord with the hexagonal prinqiple. Where erosion had washed away a patch of a lava bed at the floor of the Grand Canyon, we found petrifted wood covered by hexagonal crystals. At the Spring Creek Ranch in the Texas Panhandle are found strange objects composed of calcite an inch thick and two inches in diameter that are in the form of a perfect hexagon. They are said to be a hang over from the Triassic Age, which was the earliest period of the Mesozoic Era. By careful selection,you could pave a bathroom floor with these strange objects, but most of them have other hexagons growing out of them at various angles. A geode is a strange object of nature that looks like an egg and is shaped like an egg. Their is a location near Mammouth Arizona, where these eggs lying on top of the ground in quantity over an area of ten or more square miles. These are agate geodes. They are white on the outside like an egg. Originally, they appear to have been mere shells, but from the inner surface grow crystals until the object finally becomes a solid. A hollow ultimately becomes a solid. Where does the material come from? Or does material need to come from some place? When it is ready to appear it seems to appear. Astronomers are trying to learn how matter appears or forms in space. How does it appear or form in the hollow of these geodes?

An astrological aspect is merely an abstract geometrical measurement. True, it is sometimes a measurement between two material objects, but this need not be true. It can be a measurement between a planet and a mathematical point, or a measurement between two mathematical points where there is nothing whatsoever of a material nature. It can still have its counterpart in human affairs.

Because the planetary nodes are even more important than the planets themselves, it is important that you understand what a planetary node is. Remember that we used imaginary embroidery hoops to illustrate two planes of space. Put one hoop inside the other, twist one so that one hoop crosses the other at two points. Look at the hoops from above that point where they cross and you see an X. The point where the two hoops cross is the node. The other point where they cross is also a node. It is customary to call one point the north node, the other point the south node.

What we call the north node of a planet is that point where the orbit of a planet crosses the plane of the earth's orbit as the planet goes north. The south node is the other point, and when the planet crosses the south node, it is traveling southerly.

Actually, no planet ever crosses the earth's orbit. It crosses the plane of the earth's orbit, Therefore it is not strictly true to consider these factors as mathematical points. When referring to a node, an astronomer means that mathematical point where the plane of a planet cuts the earth's orbit, but we could as well consider the node that mathematical point where the plane of the earth's orbit cuts the planetary orbit. These two points would not be the same in space. One would be at the orbit of the earth while the other would be at the orbit of the planet. However, if we draw a straight line from the Sun to the mathematical point that is furthest away from the Sun, it would of necessity have to pass through the other mathematical point. Thus, the important factor with which we deal becomes not a mathematical point, but a mathematical line drawn from the Sun in opposite directions to infinity. The plane of the earth's orbit and the plane of the planetary orbit join all the way along the line.

As computed today, the planetary nodes are considered as heliocentric, those points where the above described line crosses the earth's orbit. However, if we use these points as if they were geocentric, they appear to work. This is easy to understand if we consider that we are dealing with mathematical lines instead of mathematical points. Now, we can draw a new set of lines with the earth as the center to those points where the line above described reaches infinity and their direction must be exactly the same as the direction from the Sun. Such a conception justifies us in using the planetary nodes in our zodiac just as they are given in heliocentric longitude.

This view might also completely justify Hugh MacCraig and others who are employing heliocentric positions in the earth zodiac.

We know from experience that when the nodes are employed in this fashion they function. We do not know whether they will also function when located by Iines from the earth as a center to those points where the nodal line crosses the earth's orbit, for these points have never been calculated and published. A student well schooled in mathematics is now calculating these positions, however, and we hope it will ultimately be possible to publish them for experimental purposes.

It becomes vital to know the zodiacal position of the planetary nodes. The position of the north lunar node is given in the ephemeris. The south lunar node will be at the opposite zodiacal point. The Sun is not involved in this calculation, because the Moon goes around the earth. The point where the two orbits cross is itself in motion, and it circumvents the entire circle of the zodiac in 19 years.

The planetary nodes have a similar motion, but it is too slow to be significant within a lifetime. The nodes of Mercury circle the zodiac once in something over 171,000 years, while the nodes of Uranus make the trip in about 40,000 years. Oddly, the nodes of some of the outer planets appear to move more rapidly than those of the inner planets. In any event, however, no planetary node moves a degree within 100 years, so you can use the present nodal positions as close enough for any living being. Present north nodal positions are as follows:

MERCURY 17 TAURUS

VENUS 16 GEMINI

MARS 19 TAURUS

JUPITER 9 CANCER

SATURN 23 CANCER

URANUS 13 GEMINI

NEPTUNE 11 LEO

PLUTO 19 CANCER

Planets aspecting these points, or even the lunar nodes aspecting these points, have significance. To have a body conjunct or square the node of a planet appears to be more important than to have it conjunct the planet itself. The node of Mars will show up strongly where violence and surgery is involved. In fact, we have found but one case of a hysterectomy to date where the woman did not have a planet (any planet) conjunct or square to Mars' nodes That one case had Mars conjunct the node of Saturn. During a class, a protest against this statement was introduced by the wife of a physician. As a result, all the students were requested to accumulate all the cases of hysterectomies they could find, and try and locate a case where this was not true. Many birth dates involving hyster- ectomies were produced. There was no case among them where some natal planet was not conjunct or square the nodes of Mars. That does not mean there are no such cases, and you might find one, but when you do, please send it to us. In fact, it will be very helpful to our research department if you will send in the birth dates ofall the people you know who have found hysterectomies necessary. The data will be very welcome.

http://mysite.verizon.net/bonniehill/pages.aux/astrology/tobey/tobey.14.htmlSun aspecting a heliocentric nodes would be most significant because that would mean Earth would be aspecting the Heliocentric Node

Pamela Rowe said that significant world events and famous people tend to be born when Sun is conjunct a heliocentric node

President Obama has Sun conjunct Heliocentric North Neptune Node

For example

in my chart:

Sun in 5'20 Scorpio

conjunct Heliocentric South Eris Node in 5'30 Scorpio

Earth in 5'20 Taurus

conjunct Heliocentric North Eris Node in 5'30 Taurus

I also have strong connections to the Geocentric Eris Nodes

conjunct Geocentric South Eris Node in 5'29 Scorpio

oppose Geocentric North Eris Node in 5'30 Taurus

I was born on October 29, 1971 like actress, Winona Ryder......so she has the same Sun-Eris Nodal aspects as I do.

Hopefully, I will be well known for founding and running Developmental Neurodiversity Association. Its about advocating,promoting diversity,equality which can be discordant,controversial to people that embrace the status quo. That fits with Eris.

My best friend happens to have Sun conjunct Eris less than half a degree. He's a shaman that has been helping me with my lifepath.

National Organization for Women was founded on October 29, 1966. Therefore, it also has Sun conjunct Heliocentric South Eris Node.

My mother and I have geocentric planets conjunct the Heliocentric Mars Nodes

I have my chart ruler, Mercury conjunct the Heliocentric South Mars Node, and she has her chart ruler, Moon conjunct the Heliocentric South Mars Node.

She and I experienced violent event together. She was shot,and I was with her at the time. She also had a hysterectomy. Therefore she experienced 2 things that Carl Tobey Payne mentioned that fit with have a planet conjunct a heliocentric Mars Node. I also experienced violence from her. She is a hothead, and I am like her in that way. I think a part of it is because of growing up abused by her.

My Mercury also conjuncts the Heliocentric South Mercury Node which Pamela Rowe calls MAXIMUM EFFECTIVENESS. ,My mom's Moon also conjuncts the Heliocentric South Mercury Node.

I also have Ascendant square the heliocentric Uranus Nodes indicating my very restless and rebellious which I tend to be.

I also have Midheaven sextile/trine the heliocentric Neptune Nodes.

My shaman friend has Midheaven sextile Neptune.

I use up to 2 degree orb

but 1 degree orb is a major theme

I also use up to 1 degree orb for the nodes of minor planets whether they are asteroids,centaurs,transneptunian objects...that includes Pluto and Eris which is larger than Pluto

but 30 minutes of arc as a major life theme.

That's just me

astrologers vary in what they find useful

therefore, what I use won't be something that another astrologer would use and vice versa

Raymond