Author Topic: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn  (Read 13654 times)

Offline Ken Haining

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The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« on: November 23, 2008, 01:00:50 PM »
I found it funny when a bunch of astronomers got together and "demoted" Pluto.  Whether you want to call it a planet, a planetiod, or a Klingon spy satellite, it still packs the same punch. 

On my chart, Pluto going into Capricorn marks the end of transiting Pluto conjuncting my Natal Mars-Ascendant conjunction, and sextiling my Mercury.  Thus it clearly goes into my first house.  When it gets to the mid degrees it might kill me, as it squares my Natal Sun, Saturn, and Neptune conjunction in Libra, while at the same time it opposes my Moon-Uranus conjuction in Cancer.  Oh well, I survived transiting Neptune and Uranus in Capricorn.  Maybe I'll survive Pluto, the "non planet." 

In any event, I would suppose that the slowest moving of the outer planets, (sorry, I still call Pluto a planet) changing signs would always be significant on everyone's chart.  As I mentioned in another post, before the other forum got obliterated, Barbara pointed out that it would denote a more conservative, and sensible approach to world finances.  That does seem to be the focus of the hour. 

I will watch with interest as Pluto moves into Capricorn in a few days. 

Ken


Offline m

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2008, 04:40:23 PM »
without a doubt Ken

natal position of Pluto marks the generation one is in

Pluto moving into Capricorn begins a time of 'inconjuctness' for those with Pluto in Leo (older baby boomers) and 'opposition' for those with Pluto in Cancer

Pluto having moved through Sagittarius was applying 'square' pressure on those with Pluto in Virgo (Gen X's) and seeming 'sextile relaxedness' from those with Pluto in Libra (these folks will now feel the pressure of the 'square')

note: countries with Pluto in Capricorn will experience the Pluto return....

regards
mL


Offline sunflower

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2008, 04:48:02 PM »
Ken,

Pluto ingressed into CApricorn on January 26th, 2008. He has 'to and fro-d' over 2008 back into Sagittarius - the tranist is considered to be 'in' once the Planet is within 2 degrees of the next Sign or House Cusp. He will be T Capricorn till 2024 - a few of us may not be round by then...<g>! He is opposing my Cancerian planets as we speak and there is nought I can do to aleviate what he may bring into me here or take from me. I could worry but there is no point - Pluto will take what he has come for.

Even now with the first few degrees of Capricorn activated by Pluto's transit we can see he means business and big business is in his sights! He will line them up like ducks! Just as Pluto's purge of the church was evident while he was in Sagittarius he will shake all the trees and look under all the rocks while he is visiting Capricorn. Multinationals, Authority Figures, Prime Minsiters, Presidents, Goverments and CEOs will all be on his list - expect corruption to be rooted out and dealt with during this time. Pluto may be considered not to be a Planet or not even an Asteroid - he is a slow mover but he is slow mover but a big worker and we wont know just how big until some years down the track.

Australia and the UK have their Sun in conservative Capricorn, while the USA has their Sun in Cancer!

sunflower
sunflower

Offline Ken Haining

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2008, 07:18:48 AM »
Hi Sunflower.

I have noted that when a planet does the "back and forth" between two signs, you get a "taste" of the next sign.  However, when it goes in to the next sign with no further retrogrades into the previous sign, there is a distinct shift to the sign it is going into.  Pluto is still distinctly in Sagittarius at the moment.  We got a taste of Pluto in Capricorn when it poked its nose into that sign, but when it goes into Capricorn with no further retrogrades, there will be a much more distinct effect on the world and on individual charts.  That has been my observation. 

Ken

Offline sunflower

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2008, 05:17:10 PM »
Ken,

I would not quarrel with your reasoning here - we have sampled a tatste of what is to come and is just around the corner.

sunflower.  :)
sunflower

Offline LE Grac

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2008, 11:13:15 AM »
The history of Pluto:
If you look back from it’s discovery you will see a certain stigma that has been associated with Pluto as well as all the outer planets. It takes a few generations for the world to assimilate their effect and to use the energy in a positive way.

I have found it to be likened to the way a planet stations over an area.The first passing is usually a psychological shock treatment when it stations over a critical degree or planet then as it moves Direct it is better understood and used.

The same can be said for Pluto as it’s not to welcomed into the consciousness at first and if you fight it’s effect you only come away worst off . At the time of the discovery look at what was going on. Criminal activity as well as the Nazi rise. Both done in secret activity to deceive others as well as to create havoc and disruption. Both found a cult following which turns out to be a delusion from what is right. As we moved forward we used or associated Pluto’s  energy with the atomic age for better or worst depending on what view you take as there are many positives as well as negatives associated with it’s use.

The New Pluto:
Everything means something and I was born in the Virgo-Pluto generation SD.That means that I have a very active Pluto IMO. Any SD planet has a certain activity which one needs to get out. They are deeper misunderstood as Pluto veils activity also. Not in a deceiving way as Neptune may ,but on an abrupt forward way.

The new way we are to associate this new view of Pluto might be that it’s negative force might be neutralized to a certain degree as not as much power in the negative sense is to be associated with it IMO.
It has not been Demoted as much as realigned with what might be a subtle shift from it being the harboring bad tidings to those having it prominent in their charts. I have found that the outer planets to be malefic until their energies can be understood and used by a subject for advancement instead of being misunderstood and fought aginst, Look at Neptune for the fog of being used negatively and therefore fought against .If that be so then the subject falls into disintegration and fights against it’s energy making matters worst through Alcohol and Drug use. In its positive manifestation it might mean the idealism to help other or the religious leaning to be addressed as well as the creative spirit.

Pluto-Cap
This shall be the time of revolutionary change for world governments and those that have power.In it's worst manifestation those having power shall decieve many and use it's power to decieve then destroy others.We have some Grand Crosses which shall be the awareness of where our leaders are coming from in the next few years.

 I would elaborate my opinion ,but I think I have said enough for now.

A better platform to Post. Thanks Noel~!

Offline sunflower

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2008, 01:59:25 PM »
LE Grac,

What I have observed and have personal expience of is that if an Outer Planet is Angular - conj Asc. the energy of the Outer Planet is personalised and becomes part of the individual's personality. I have Uranus conj my Asc. so I do like change and I have no probs. accepting change.

I had Pluto T my 8th House and Saturn T my 2nd while trying to get a settlement. I was very aware of the likely outcome and did not stress over it. But I did not do too well, but so be it - the Sky Gods left me enough to build on. We cant argue with them or fend them off in any way.

sunflower.
sunflower

Offline Ken Haining

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2008, 02:36:20 PM »
Hi Sunflower.

I have Mars on my Ascendant, and I am always looking for something to bash my head into.

With Neptune smack on the Midheaven, I wonder if I should be more compassionate.

With Uranus square the Sun, I think, oh well, change is good, as Pluto sextile the Sun laughs and says, "It it is good that it was destroyed!"

And then Sun tightly conjunct the Sun says, "Lets build something that will last this time."

And Mercury sextile Mars, sextile Pluto, sextile the Ascendant, and conjunct Neptune says, "This is all good fun." 

So many astrological factors, so little time!

Ken



   

Offline Ken Haining

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2008, 02:43:46 PM »
Whoops, that should say, Sun tightly conjunct Saturn.  The Sun is always tightly conjunct the Sun!

Ken

Offline LE Grac

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2008, 03:15:52 PM »
LE Grac,

What I have observed and have personal expience of is that if an Outer Planet is Angular - conj Asc. the energy of the Outer Planet is personalised and becomes part of the individual's personality. I have Uranus conj my Asc. so I do like change and I have no probs. accepting change.

I had Pluto T my 8th House and Saturn T my 2nd while trying to get a settlement. I was very aware of the likely outcome and did not stress over it. But I did not do too well, but so be it - the Sky Gods left me enough to build on. We cant argue with them or fend them off in any way.

sunflower.


Hi Ken\Sunflower:
I agree as to it's effect for you. I would also pointout that the most dramic effct for any planet is not to have it angular ,but to have a planey 5Deg. before any angle as I have a few. You will have to study the Gauglein(?) effect and have his writings to see what I am saying.

If you have any angle highlighted ,which I do also,then it will be prominent so do not misunderstand me.I only agree with the author that it will be an unconscious level that the planets energy must be used.

As you have observed it's power was diminished when it T a secondary house which I found also to be the case.

As far as death is concerned I would not play as much into it's effect as to be reinventing ones selfh when it transits anywhere. We go though deep psychological and physical changes when an outer planet passes over an angle which depends on where the outer planet is at birth,but I know you know all this. 

Offline sunflower

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2008, 09:19:28 PM »
LE Grac,

Yes I have heard and read about the Gaugeins - they did Astrological research as they had no belief in Astrology. The idea was/is that Planets 10 degrees before an Angle and 15 degrees after an Angle are important.

The Traditionalists believe Cadent Planets have no strength. I really have not found Cadent Planets this way myself. The reasoning is that Cadent Planets are always striving to move into the Angluar House but keep getting 'ripped away' by the 'turn of the wheel'. Comments welcome.

sunflower   
sunflower

Offline crabman

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Off-the-cuff comments on Pluto transits
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2008, 09:20:42 PM »
I have only observed Pluto half-heartedly in my lifetime, but my take on Pluto is that it destroys.  Just as Neptune’s influence is felt in waves that we get hints of several years beforehand, Pluto moves underground and we feel his tremors several years before we get the full force.  When Pluto transits natal Neptune, one’s illusions are shattered.  When Pluto transits a sign, all the things ruled by that sign are permanently disfigured.  With Pluto’s first entry into Virgo at the end of 1956, the whole 1950s idea of purity and virginity began to crumble.  Teenage pregnancy and juvenile delinquency had an alarming rise.  With the ready availability of the birth control pill in the early 1960s, the virginal ideal completely died as the Neptune in Virgo generation looked on in horror.  By the end of 1971 when Pluto first entered Libra, the idea of marriage took a hit.  During the 1970s cohabitation rather than marriage not only became acceptable, but the norm.  With the advent of several incurable sexually transmitted diseases in the early 1980s, the idea of life as a sexual free-for-all was stopped in its tracks with Pluto’s entry into Scorpio in 1983.  For a lot of people the wages of sex was death.  Professional sports had taken some hits beforehand (e.g., the Pete Rose scandal in 1989), but as Pluto moved through Sagittarius, more and more criminal behavior among sports figures shocked the public (O.J. Simpson, Mike Tyson, etc.)  The travel industry was also ruined by the events of 9/11.  Travel was no longer easy or as much fun as it had been in the past.  I think that with Pluto’s transit through Capricorn, basic structures will be undermined and destroyed.  The U.S. Constitution has been under attack for several years.  Political Correctness took away Freedom of Speech and the U.S. Senate’s acquittal of Bill Clinton for perjury and obstruction of justice made the previous idea that no one is above the law obsolete.  Look for the Constitution to be rendered completely meaningless by end of Pluto’s transit through Capricorn.  The U.S. will probably be a de facto Socialist country by then.

Offline LE Grac

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2008, 10:43:18 PM »
LE Grac,

Yes I have heard and read about the Gaugeins - they did Astrological research as they had no belief in Astrology. The idea was/is that Planets 10 degrees before an Angle and 15 degrees after an Angle are important.

The Traditionalists believe Cadent Planets have no strength. I really have not found Cadent Planets this way myself. The reasoning is that Cadent Planets are always striving to move into the Angluar House but keep getting 'ripped away' by the 'turn of the wheel'. Comments welcome.

sunflower   

Ken:
I had thought he was an astrologer who did statistical research to see what planets and placements might effect vocation. What he found was interesting.

I have his book or one of them which I read from time to time, but I only use what I read that works for me. It is only 5 degrees before the angle which is usually used I thought and are primary points which seem to influence a person more then if it has already gone over the angle. That is only what I have found though. A planet which can be seen as a good tool is Uranus just before rising or just before the MC in the 9th. That is only what I have observed though. I stretch orbs at times also. An example is Hitler’s Uranus 12th just before the Ascendant.

Uranus in Succedant Houses holds weight .I had never seen any planet to not be of marked influence in some way so I would not agree with what was written. They all play a part. Einstein’s Uranus in the 3rd is one example of that.Any planet found in the first three houses seems to color the personality IMO.

Getting back to Pluto:
When it enters into Cap to stay I think it shall bring revolutionary change for government control which shall be fought against at first. Change is something which many cannot accept willingly. Pluto is abrupt change and Obama shall make some great strides to get the country back on track .

I am glad that a Washington insider shall be in office instead of a Governor who is a yes man that just goes along with what his cabinet might think as that has been the scenario for to long. Clinton was more decisive and a Rhodes Scholar ,Bush I was told was warned not to get in to politics because he was not to smart. I think it shows.

I fear for the new president as it is Tecumseh’s curse this term which shall hang over his head. I have to wonder if there might be an assault of some kind to take his life.

I have not studied his chart in detail yet and I wonder what it foretells. It might be worthy to look at both his and Biddens charts to see what might be occurring in the next yrs..We have some major alignments which shall influence all of us.

I just visited Dallas and was lucky enough to have meet and spoken to a few of the players involved in the JFK investigation. Those I spoke to believed there were 4  gunmen which I never knew before. I was convinced that Oswald acted alone until I spoke to these men who were there. One was a Dallas police officer which took part in arresting Oswald and knew all the officers involved in the tragedy. Most were on the take and paid by Ruby I bet. A Stripper says that Oswald knew Ruby also. I was told that Ruby actually sent or called Tibbits to kill Oswald ,but Oswald fired first.

Oswald had an easy shot as I was also trained to shoot a rifle in the Marines and he served in the same Marine Air Group as I did. He was not a stupid guy I know that much,but his beliefs were at odds with those he knew.

Anyway a lot is riding on what happens in the U.S. in the next years  and the curse might be alleviated as it was during the Reagan years. He did not escape unharmed either as he came very close to death also.

The charts for all hese events need further research IMO. I have looked at the charts of the JFK event and Mars plays a prominent part. I forget were Pluto was. The ingress of Pluto into a new sign always brings a force of change that is fought against at first I think. Pluto ingresses into Sag and we saw philosophical belief systems tested. Now it shall be governments that shall be put to the test. Osama will tick many people off as he shall take away the gravy train to many rich people have enjoyed over the last 8-12yrs. I think. He is adopting a mess.

Pluto and the sign Scorpio I have always associated with Marine Corps boot camp whereas it tears down ones identity and builds things anew. The more one fights against such change the harder things become for ones self so it might be easier to float along until one can recover and sort things out.
  IMO Obama is already signaling great change to come. Bush is not at all happy now and I wonder why? I wonder if Obama had something to say to him when they meet that tee’d him off?

This is very speculative on my part and I do not have my regular computer with all my data to look at at this time. I have been right aabout somethings and wrong about others so we shall see what this ingress into a Cardinal sign brings us. Smaller shall be in I think. Scaling back and being a miser shall be part of the coming years. I hope that the new president shall make strides for new systems as for energy as Bush has been for Big Biz and the little guy has gotten screwed. The war is a farce.

JFK and history should have been studied by Bush as JFK learned not to trust all he was told by his cabinet after the Bay of Pigs debacle. Many presidents have made the same mistake. LBJ on Vietnam,Nixon with Watergate. Obama just might be his own man I hope. It is not wrong to ask for opinions,but he has to be decisive and go by his own thoughts not everything that he is told. Bush Sr. I seen descibed his son as being mislead by those he has around him which brought him to tears.He does not agree with his son on many points.

Pluto and the underground revolutionary period is to commence when Obama takes office and like JFK many shall not like what is to happen I think.If something were to happen to Obama it would be ashame to see Bidden be president. These next three years will have the world involved and the U.S. must take the lead .If not then the consequences will be dire and we will lose face in diplomatic diplomacy.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 10:47:41 PM by LE Grac »

Offline Ken Haining

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2008, 08:07:02 AM »
Hi Crabman

Interesting observations of Pluto's transits through the signs.  Ideally, something would be torn down, and something better put in its place.  However, the human race rarely achieves the ideal.  You have given me food for thought.

Ken

Offline Ken Haining

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Re: The Grand Entrance of Pluto into Capricorn
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2008, 08:16:27 AM »
Hi Le.

With Pluto moving into Capricorn I would think the emphasis would be on replacing a structure that doesn't work with one that does.  Tearing down the old structure is the traumatic part, and the challenge is in coming up with something that is better, and not worse.  Crabman gave me some food for thought, in that there may be more tearing down than building up. 

I personally think that the best societies have a balance between capitalism and socialism.  I, being Libra, always see both sides, and look for that balance.  Israel seems to be the best example of it.  In other words, people shouldn't be put out on the streets with no home, or food, or resources, but at the same time, working hard, having talent, having intelligence, and being superior in some way should still allow a person to prosper above the norm.  Pluto tends to go too much to extremes, and my point of view is that this is where the danger really lies. 

You mentioned the danger to Obama.  It would even be possible for him to be injured or killed before he took office.  Saying that he would send more troops into Afghanistan is enough to cause some psychos to seek a glorious death in killing the U.S. president elect.  When they are spraying acid on girls you have a definite indication of how violent prone they are.

So we will see what happens over the coming years of Pluto in Capricorn.

Ken