Michael Douglas

[James Williams]

And one other book comes to mind that also deals very effectively with this topic.  It's called..

"Change: Principles of Problem Formation and Problem Resolution" by Paul Watzlawick, John H. Weakland, and Richard Fisch, foreward by Milton H. Erickson, 1974.

[jon layton]

Thanks James but I'd rather listen to your insight! Honestly, I'm not going to read those books, but I would pay attention to what you  say? Throw the books out the window!

[James Williams]

Thanks, Jon, but those books have said it much better than I...

[jon layton]

I know I love books too, and I very much appreciate your sincerity! At some point however(in my opinion of course) we have to go with our own gut instincts(especially in cases like this where a human touch is required), I didn't bring a single astrology book(or any other book for that matter) with me to California and it will probably be a long while before I buy another one. At some point we just have to let it fly and be our own authors!

[James Williams]

It's interesting, I've always been a voracious reader, and I believe it's because a good book is like having a conversation with someone who is both very knowledgeable and insightful about a certain subject or topic.  These 2 books I've mentioned in this thread were both ground-breaking pioneers in these subjects/topics, and personally, if I were on some kind of astrological certification governing board, would make them required reading of prospective consulting astrologers, for consulting astrologers need to know how to present what they see in a horoscope in a way that is much more beneficial for all concerned...too many clients have been tremendously harmed by well-meaning but ill-informed astrologers...

And by doing so, we give our own gut instincts knowledge that it had previously lacked before (consciously), and information that will greatly assist both astrologer and client...

[jon layton]

And the next thing that has to go in my life is the internet(and I'll replace that with books again for sure). Don't get me wrong the internet has taking me places I would never of dreamed of (Venus-Mercury in Aquarius) but having spent a lot of time alone in the desert and on the beach I realized I don't want the clutter(Neptune on the North Node in my 12th close to the Asc, right on my relocated Asc). It's just too much information, and most of it is false or at best misleading

[James Williams]

Jon, I hear you and applaud your focus and practice of what sounds to me, like a perfect example of the sanskrit word and concept, vairagya...(not viagra)!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vairagya

[jon layton]

I agree written history is a prerequisite for any proficient astrologer. I read voraciously every book I could get my hands on for 5 years or more(eastern and western) but that's enough for me.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one JKW, but I love what you bring to this forum so there's nothing else I want to add. Keep up the good work!

[FKAL]

Jon,

Hi.  I relate to your Neptune and the Ascendant.  The great need to get to water.  I'm off to embark on a trip to Nova Scotia later in the year, without the internet!  I feel like 'I've been through the desert on a horse with no name...' haven't looked at the astro-locality yet.  Won't bring books along either.  Maybe, that's all part of the plan.  I think our 'renaissances are on our own time.'

The voice, I think I'll scream alot into the wind.  Michael's vocals effected, makes me wonder if it will bring him time to hear what's inside?

Last time, I felt like this was sitting by the Irish Sea, and the lyrics were quite fascinating as a result.  Wish you sweet songs too.

[James Williams]

Thank you again, Jon.  I know that you will continue to keep up the good work as well!  Namaste...JKW

[jon layton]

Have a great trip FKAL ( or artist formerly known as Lura)!

[jon layton]

JKW, I wouldn't exactly say vairagya lol people easily mistake introversion for some kind of disease like oh my god we must bring him out of his shell. I think it's a beautiful thing, don't get me wrong I love to be the life of the party and I am a lot but if I need 12 hours a day or more away from you it's nothing personal.

 I see this with educators especially somehow they think that's something wrong when a child is introverted and in my opinion it's exactly the opposite. But we are way off topic so let's close this discussion and I'll work to right this wrong in the years to come It's one of my many passions in life but it's a big one.

[james m]

cameron douglas birthdate is dec 13 1978... santa barbara california - time unknown.. i thought some might want to consider this data as well... sun/neptune conj is in both the father and sons chart... there are many powerful crossovers via the synastry even without knowing what degree the moon is at... saturn conj jupiter being the most interesting from my pov...

[jon layton]

James M, I usually find the Sun's position (tropical) by sign, house and ESPECIALLY tight aspect to be very descriptive of how the child perceives his father (or father figure) and then in turn that influence mightily the adult identity. So Sun-Neptune in both charts speaks of the absent father and perhaps more positively the creative-glamorous-idealized father and it also speaks of the potential for addiction. So James M and Dean you make excellent points if those two came together for a consultation we would spend a lot of time on Sun-Neptune issues.

Cameron currently has SA Uranus(upset, shock)=Sun(father, identity) and his natal Mars is right there in early Capricorn in the mix with his father's and Catherine Zeta Jones Sun, Moon etc

[jon layton]

I just wanted to add breaking out of the(your, my) father's shadow always takes a hell of a lot of courage but when you can break away with a lot of love and respect for the man (him and yourself), that's when you know you are on the right path. SA Uranus=Sun hopefully gives them both a good chance, I wish both of them the best of luck!