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Author Topic: Gladys Knight  (Read 3628 times)
Barbara Ybarra
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« on: January 29, 2012, 11:27:23 AM »

Dear readers:

Last night I attended a "revival" for lack of a better word, hosted by the Mormon church (of all things) featuring Gladys Knight and the SUVs (that's Saints Unified Choir).  OMG.  Gladys Knight is not only still one of the queens of soul, she is a preacher as well, although the LDS described it as "a testimony" from her.  Nope, this woman can preach!

So of course, I had to look at her chart, which is rated AA by astro.com.  May 28, 1944 CWT 7:52pm Atlanta Geogia, ASC 10 Sagittarius.

What I was initially curious about was her Mormon conversion in 1997.  I wondered why Mormon?  Her bio says that she was raised Baptist (of course) and began singing as a child in church (of course).  For awhile in her adulthood she became Catholic and then Mormon in 1997 when her son Jimmy convinced her to join up with him and his family.  Two years later Jimmy died of a drug overdose, a horrible, horrible time for her with Pluto crossing her ASC.   She never brought this up in her talk last night.

In 1997 tr Uranus was opposing her Mars and then her Pluto both located in the 8th.  Mars rules her 5th, and she was getting a divorce (again).  Pluto rules her 12th, which is the 8th of her 5th.  She was very close to her son Jimmy, who was her manager, a man who obviously was already having signs of deep trouble in his life.  He was 36 when he died.  At hard times she would look to her religion.  But Mormon?

I think that religion and being in ministry is an important theme in her life.  There is the obvious performance needs that we see in her chart.  The MC ruler Mercury is in Taurus in her 5th.   She has a Leo Moon, the Neptune AP in the 10th 7 degrees from the MC.   But check out her Jupiter also about 7 degrees from her Moon in the 9th house.  She is comfortable in a church setting…in a big performance way.  Her Sun conjunct Uranus in Gemini which rules her 9th house are closely quintile to Jupiter there.  Uranus rules her 3rd.  Singing gospel and preaching is right where she belongs.

But why Mormon?  How odd, right?  They are quite famous for their choirs, but not gospel choirs.  Well, all that may all change.  With Uranus there with the Sun, Gladys truly needs to be singularly recognized, special, not just one of many of her kind.  If she were travelling around to Baptist churches (or even Catholic ones) with her choir and giving testimonies, would she not be just one of many awesome African-American people who praise God with their fervor and their talent?  Well, not quite, because her voice and her soul-sound are incredible, her star quality very big, as Moon-Jupiter, Sun-Uranus suggest.  But would the public in general notice enough?

I have to admit, as my son said who was with me last night, if there had not been the sprinkling of people of color in that assembly, the stiff white people there might not have been able to receive her performance as it needed to be received.  It required participation, you know, a few Amens and Allelujiahs, etc., etc., etc., which did indeed happen.  In fact we were sitting right in the joy spot.

I hope she continues to help make transformations within the Mormon church.  But…I have my doubts.  If it doesn't continue, then she has at least stirred some people up, given some people a taste of something outside their tight and tiny range of experience within the LDS family.  Right now, tr Uranus is opposing her Neptune for the last hit.  She and her SUVs have created an album.  We'll see.

Barbara Ybarra

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James Williams
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2012, 03:09:13 PM »

Hi Barbara, perhaps a Mormon astrologer will come on here and give you an answer to your question, lol... Grin

I found another article which mentioned that her daughter as well as her son helped her to convert, so it sounds to me that Gladys would have converted to whatever church her children were attending at that time in her life...

But she's stuck with the LDS now for nearly 15 years, so it would be interesting to hear her response to your question...

Here's a link...

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Knight,_Gladys

...and after a little more searching myself, here may be the answer to your question...

http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/knightflorida.html

...and it sounds like she's definitely taken the midnight train to utah...

Or the mid-Knight train to Utah... Grin




« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 05:26:28 AM by James Kenneth Williams » Logged

"Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control.  It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star.  Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper.”   A. Einstein
James Williams
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2012, 03:11:25 PM »

BTW, do you have any dates as to when Gladys joined or left the Catholic church, and any other Protestant churches?  It would be interesting to see what was going on in her chart at those times as well...
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"Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control.  It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star.  Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper.”   A. Einstein
james m
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2012, 04:47:01 PM »

barbara,
thanks for sharing this story.. someone converting to mormonism might seem strange, but then think of what they think of people converting to astrology... probably they think that is strange too, lol..

james kw - funny - taken the midnight train to utah...


i can't find dates for the conversion either, but i did note that she was still going thru the divorce in late 97..
http://articles.philly.com/1997-10-05/entertainment/25540047_1_midnight-train-gladys-knight-divorce-papers/2

2  primary directions in effect for the summer of 97 were
saturn directed to square mars and june 10 1997
mars directed to 45 mars july 3 1997

this would fit with the divorce and religious conversion as saturn is in the 7th while mars is in the 9th.

they go with the t uranus opposition to the mars/pluto in her 9th as well.. t pluto opp venus/sun midpoint and in the vicinity of her ascendant degree would also describe her transformation which included this divorce..pluto is in her natal 9th as well..
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pdw
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2012, 06:07:19 PM »

Hi, Barbara, this was a very interesting presentation.  I had no idea Gladys Knight – whose version of ‘I  heard it through the Grapevine’ (with the Pips) still gets my spirit moving – was either a Mormon or a preacher.

I googled a bit and came up with a couple of dates you might be interested in, if you haven’t found them already.  Here they are, with the caveat that they still need to be cross-checked (which I lazily did not do).   

Her son Jimmy Newman III – b. August 13, 1962; Atlanta, GA; time unknown – d. August 10, 1999; Las Vegas, NV; time unknown.
   
Her Baptism in the Mormon Church – August 1997.  Received Endowment (a very significant Mormon ritual) “one year later”. 

Have you noticed that Gladys Knight has the Water signs on their natural Houses 4-8-12, with Neptune AP and Angular, ruling her 4th House – faithful - yet she has no Water planets?  This seems like a prominent emphasis on Water needs – emotional and spiritual – with the capacity for deep spirituality and self-transformation (Scorpio 12th; N Pluto trine ASC and square Sun-Uranus). 

Some astrological Why Mormon? answers might be: happenstance (the 1997 T Uranus opposing her N Mars then N Pluto); desire for new knowledge and self-expression in the background (T Pluto in her 12th trine N Mars, 5th ruler, in her 8th) – plus heightened receptivity to spiritual sharing and the need to belong (with T Neptune conjunct her Nodal Axis).  Additionally, SA Mars = MC – Change of status.   

We know as ruler of her 5th House N Mars can represent her son; we know the 8th House references shared values; and we know the Node reflects close personal connections.  In her own words after his death, Gladys Knight references the 8th House legacy she inherited from her son:  He brought me to my church and I just grew immensely from his example. 

From what I read, that’s exactly what happened.  He and his family converted.  His sister noticed and got interested, and her family converted.  Then his mother………. She heard it through the grapevine. 
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Barbara Ybarra
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2012, 08:30:06 AM »

Cool post, pdw.  I did have the dates for her son, but could not find the conversion.  For some reason I chose August but knew it could be wrong.  Funny about the grapevine.  She would love that, she is a riot and had everybody laughing.  She would confirm that if Jimmy thought it was so, then his sister would think that, and then would follow mama.  It was that way from the beginning.

James W:  Hi.  There are no Mormon astrologers.  There might be ex-Mormon astrologers.  But that could change if a message from God suddenly told the President that they could start using astrology now…. and certainly if God said they were now required to study and use astrology!

Barbara Ybarra
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Barbara Ybarra
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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2012, 08:54:39 AM »

Hi james:

Just an aside here.  An African-American converting to the LDS is an anomaly (probably Uranian).  In the Mormon theology there is the belief that the dark-skinned races on this earth had failed to be holy enough in the spirit world and therefore were tainted with dark skin here on earth. There's more but I won't go into it here.  Blacks were denied the office of bishop until 1978 (when it was realized that in South America the only men available for the office were dark-skinned). 

Gladys mentioned that people think blacks are discriminated against in the Mormon church.  All the blacks tittered at that. Maybe in the light of slavery in the U.S. it's a small thing to overlook (?), or maybe it's been stricken from the books.  Apparantly God has a history too.  To be black and join the Mormon church probably suggests a Uranian, the need to be different, defiant, to not follow the crowd.

Barbara Ybarra
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james m
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2012, 10:14:58 AM »

hi barbara,

i have read the book of mormon and i am aware of the 'whiteness' of the religion... i had an old friend in his late 80's who passed away a few years ago who had asked me if i would read the book, so i did.. he was a casual friend of stephen covey the author of '7 habits of highly effective people' who was also mormon..
i am sure they are still trying to expand! they need high profile people in the black community to offset this common knowledge which you mention.. i am glad gladys mentioned that, and yes her uranus must be an important aspect of this... cheers james
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Isaac Starkman
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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2012, 11:06:08 PM »

Using 7 events, the recorded birth time is accurately to the second.
Helio Mercury, ruler of MC,  trine MC, both Venus, geo and helio, are also trine MC.
Primary directions in Topo for her Baptism in Aug 1997:
NN 180 MC 3'
MC 0 NN 5'
Mercury 180 MC 7'
In the solar return for May 1997, NN conjunct radical MC
In the converse solar return, NN, Neptune, Pluto and Sun – all conjunct IC
Her age was 53. In the 53rd Harmonic: Jupiter conjunct Moon and 180 Uranus.
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pdw
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2012, 02:29:03 PM »

Barbara and All, in light of the Node-Mother thread, here the Node looks like a significant conduit for their special Mother-Son connection via religion.   

Jimmy had N Saturn conjunct his N Node (7 Aquarius and 8 Leo-Aquarius).  Gladys Knight has N Pluto at 6 Leo.  A Saturn influence can be many things including instructive and a fine example, as her words suggest her son's religious practice was to her.  Pluto can be a potent change agent when contacted, perhaps noticeable, even spectacular with its sextile to her N Sun-Uranus. 

As noted already, T Uranus, Astrology's Awakener, was activating this area in their charts in 1997 when she converted (transiting Aquarius 3 - 7 degrees, including a retrograde). 
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Barbara Ybarra
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2012, 05:14:55 PM »

Isaac, thank you for the info.  To the second….wow.

pdw:   I saw that Sun-Jupiter connection between Gladys and her son.  Cool, right?  Great additional work you did.  The Node with Saturn in Jimmy's suggests how sad-sack his father was at being a father.  What I read was that he just took off, disappeared.  And with her Pluto there….holy cow!

Barbara Ybarra
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Don Borkowski
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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 11:10:26 PM »

Barbara et al:
That was sure interesting.  I often thought with the LDS stress on family values, that church could really appeal to the African community. 

Myself, I refuse to proselytize, even for astrology.

Don Borkowski
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True astrology is that which can be taught to other people who can then replicate the teachers' conclusions through their own effort.  --Don Borkowski in July 1983 issue of MERCURY HOUR
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