the love connection

[Alice Portman]

Hi Barbara

I'm with you re that I eventually find composite charts baffling.

Am guessing that the intial composite chart is the relationship when it begins?
The progressed composite chart shows how the relationship is likely to progress?
ie Get better or worse ?  

I also don't understand the difference in the mid point composite chart method and the Davidson method,
as the charts I've looked at vary greatly with those two methods.

Sue  

The whole thing works on three levels:

1. First of all you need to look at the duad charts as these give the initial attraction and are probably genetically based.  The draconic charts probably show 'soul' connections as they are based on the nodal axis.

You don't need many connections in either of these charts, but you do need two or three good strong ones to set the rest of the relationship in motion.

2. If these criteria show connections, then the synastry kicks in.  This tends to show how you get on with each other and the areas of mutual exchange in each horoscope.   Without the above prerequisites the synastry doesn't have any power, so you can have a lovely Sun-Moon, Venus-Mars etc., but no oomph to it.  

I remember in my early years as an astrologer a fellow astrologer showed me our synastry - it was wonderful, but I felt no attraction to him at all other than friendship.  Then I met my chiropractor and we had a fantastic double Sun-Moon conjunction and a strong Venus-Mars connection.  I really liked my chiropractor but felt no interest in him in a sexual or relationship sense.  This truly puzzled me and I determined to find out why such powerful synastries didn't click for me.  When I discovered the duad system I realised why - both men didn't fit any of my duad requirements.

3. Once the relationship is formed, then the composite , which is the midpoint  of each of the two pairs of planets e.g. Sun-Sun, Moon-Moon etc., and the Davison, which is the half way point between the two dates, times and places of birth, become very effective.

These describe the relationship as an entity within itself.

Both these systems respond to transits.  For example, one of my friends and I have a lovely Sun-Venus conjunct in Pisces in the 5th house in the composite chart.  The friendship was very harmonious for many, many years, but once Pluto and Uranus started their transits over this placement problems started to occur.  Now I hardly ever see her.

The Davison chart strongly responds to progressions and directions.  In 1994 I ran a Relationship Course in Sydney which lasted for 6 months and had a number of attendees.  As part of their homework I asked them to run a progressed chart for the time they met a person who was important to them.  Every one of these people turned up to the next class showing the Davison chart giving clear indictations of the time they met - and the time of their first sexual encounter!

If there is a divorce the progressed or directed Davison chart clearly shows this... and so on.

Of the two I think the Davison is probably the stronger.

Without understanding the three levels of a relationship I don't think there is a truly clear picture of its dynamics.

Alice McDermott

[mish]

this is a great conversation!!
 it is so interesting how everyone uses these methods...

fist off, i find composite charts incredibly accurate and i use them all the time... for me... i can glean in a heart beat the essence of a relationship.
for instance.. my partner and i have mars and node conjunct with mars opposite moon. right off the bat it was very obvious that our tempers could flare in a heart beat,. and that if we did not release our ego and the need to be 'right' the relationship would go up in a violent flame!

i also find synastry very useful... more for fine tuning of the relationship.

i have read a great book on composites and it explains it so beautifully,, when two people begin a relationship a third relationship is created. the blending of the two...it is a fabulous read!! COMPOSITE CHARTS- the astrology of relationships by John Towney
i do not use progressions on composite but i find transits to the composite very accurate!

thank you all for the great insights

[mish]

hi pdw
the thing i noticed about saturn - venus squares in some people is immaturity for sure, and a kind of 'weirdness' in relationships... kinda kinky or aloof. i can't remember anything else about their charts though, shoot!!

hi sue, i think if you read the book i recommended above it may clear up alot of those questions. first off a composite chart is the same always... there is no progression...(in my opinion) the only difference is that when a relationship is new... the composite is new as well... but when a couple has been together for a long time,.. you can see the manifestation very clearly!!

thank you so much barbara for the analysis of your parents relationship,.. you seemed to have nailed it!! both the composite and synastry came in very useful in your final conclusion

[mish]

thanks alice for your post, i will have to download (into my brain) what you have there

[Barbara Ybarra]

Alice:

So, what sorts of things would one like to see in the duad charts?  Is it the synastry between them, or between the duads and the natals?  Same question for the draconic charts…synastry between the two (certainly not the conjunct nodes!) or between the draconic of one and natal of another?

Thanks.

Barbara Ybarra

[Sue]

Hi Alice

Thank you so much for your fabulous explantion.

I've read your article re Duads on your website and from what I understand some Natal to Duad connections
are far more important than others.

Excerpt from your website:-

"The most powerful connection to another is through the duads of the Sun, Moon, Nodes, Ascendant, MC,
and Vertex. For sexual interest Venus and Mars play a part and for intense effect Pluto is usually somewhere
in the picture".

I'm also wondering if there is any relevence in a Duad to Duad connection?

Rather than confuse you and myself   here's what I'm currently looking at. There are
a lot of connections here. Natal to Duad plus Duad to Duad and I'm not sure which ones
to discount.

1st Person                                              
Planet    Natal     Duad
Sun              Virgo     Libra
Moon            Sagittarius Sagittarius   
Mercury            Virgo    Aries      
Venus            Virgo   Gemini      
Mars            Leo   Virgo      
NN           Pisces   Cancer      
Pluto           Leo    Sagittarius   
Asc           Virgo   Cancer      
MC           Gemini   Aries      
Vertex           Aquarius   Virgo      
Neptune           Libra   Scorpio
Uranus           Cancer          Virgo
Saturn            Libra             Taurus   

 2nd Person
Planet   Natal   Duad
Sun   Scorpio   Aries
Moon   Aries   Cancer
Mercury   Scorpio   Sagittarius
Venus   Scorpio   Libra
Mars   Aquarius   Libra
NN   Libra   Pisces
Pluto   Leo   Taurus
Asc   Libra   Aquarius
MC   Leo   Cancer
Vertex   Taurus   Pisces
Neptune   Virgo   Capricorn
Uranus    Taurus    Sagittarius
Saturn    Aries       Aquarius

Sue  

[Sue]

Hi Mish

Thank you for the book recommendation.

I saw the progressed composite chart option on the astro.com website.
It does quite significanlty change from the actual composite chart in the
charts I've looked at. So that's why I was wondering if it showed the manifestation
of a relationship.

Sue  

[Alice Portman]

Hi Alice

I'm also wondering if there is any relevence in a Duad to Duad connection?

I did all my research on duad-natal connections, but more and more I am thinking that the duad to duad connections are very relevant as well;  these people seem to have a kind of familiarity with each other that is quite comforting.

This seems to be particularly the case if the same planet is involved e.g. both Suns in the same duad or both Moons...

If people are connecting up with even the duad degrees being the same I think this could be quite powerful.

I remember an astrologer on another forum being most interested in my work on duads and doing further research herself.    She wrote a wonderful piece on duad-duad connections but I can't remember her name, I know I bookmarked it but can't find that right now either.

Alice McDermott 

[waterbird]

Alice,

I've just bought a book on Composite Charts at a great price! Thanks for the info on the Duads!

water bird

[Sue]

Hi Alice

Thank you.

Duads are certainly very interesting when comparing two people's charts.
Of the couples charts I've looked at, the ones with the strongest relationships
have a lot of Natal to Daud connections and also Duad to Daud.

Sue 

[Rachelann]

I actually think that composite charts are highly dismissable. The reason why is that they are based on math......the position of two Sun's, Moon,s Midheavens, etc. are calculated and divided in half. The positions are really a bunch of midpoints. It is hard to see how this can be used to analyze a relationship because relationships are based on two people understanding their own needs and the needs of the partner and then be willing to support that person's needs while at the same time fulfilling one's own needs. The composite chart theoretically charts the identity of a relationship. Before there can be a relationship, there have to be two people.

I agree completely with Kathy Rose. There is no magic measurement. I learned from my teacher that contacts between horoscopes exist in every synastry with everyone you have ever been in a relationship with. The contacts represent chemistry but cannot tell you whether or not the relationship will be fulfilling.

The best route is a full, complete understanding of both horoscopes to both people. It is then up to them to make further decisions. At the end of the day, it's the people who decide on the quality of the relationship, not their horoscopes.

[Purple]

I personally like Venus and mars in square or opposition. Sun moon trine and sextile is okay. Sometimes when the chart doesn't look hopeful I don't really mind because I then look at sun/moon and Venus/mars midpoints.

I guess it depends on what your looking for. I like the friction and don't like too many conjunctions etc.

The composite chart isn't that important in my own opinion unless predicting if a relationship or friendship will develop.

[James Williams]

Here's a composite chart of Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky...those who are so inclined may check the date November 15, 1995 for the transits to this composite chart for this is the day they began a sexual relationship...

I have also attached their progressed composite chart for November 15, 1995...one can note the aspects between their progressed composite chart to their composite chart, the aspects of the progressed composite chart itself, and the transits of November 15, 1995 to the progressed composite chart...

[James Williams]

For example, please notice progressed composite Mars quindecile aspect to composite Uranus, progressed composite Sun square progressed composite Jupiter, transiting Venus conjunct composite Jupiter, and transiting Mars conjunct progressed composite Jupiter...

[Alice Portman]

The Davison is rather powerful as well:



Note the Venus-Saturn-Mars on the IC, made even more powerful because they are all in parallel of declination; Venus is ruler of the 8th house, bringing in the strongly sexual connection with an older person (Saturn).   The Sun-Mercury opposite Uranus is also more powerful because of parallel of declination.

Neptune in Scorpio is conjunct and parallel the antiVertex as well as being on the Koch 2nd cusp.

The Part of Passion is 11Virgo40, trine Venus, ruler of the Ascendant and 8th house and conjunct 12th cusp - a secret affair?
The Part of Intercourse is 15Scorpio04, square Davison Sun in the 5th house.

This is the secondary progressed Davison chart for the start of the affair.



Note that
*  the Ascendant has moved to conjoin Neptune and 2nd cusp.
* the Moon-Pluto conjunction.
* SP IC has moved to conjoin Davison Sun in the 5th house - very appropriate. 
   The Part of Intercourse for the Davison chart is 15Scorpio04, so the SP IC has also moved to square this Part.
* SP antiVertex is conjunct Davison Jupiter
* SP Venus is sesiquadrate Davison Ascendant!

There are also several triggers to this SP chart from Day Harmonics and Day Profections.

Alice McDermott