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Author Topic: Relationship Horary  (Read 7660 times)
James Williams
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« on: March 01, 2012, 04:03:36 PM »

Hi Francine,

I see that this is your first post here, so welcome, and thank you for sharing!

It seems to me that your question(s) would best be answered by use of horary astrology.  You are asking certain questions along the lines of, "Does this seem like a breakup? Perhaps a lot of arguments or anger?"  And you are wondering what to make of all the transits, arcs, progressions, etc., to your friend's son's chart, and perhaps to the chart of his girlfriend, composite charts, etc.

Perhaps some horary enthusiasts here can offer some helpful suggestions within the next day or two so that your questions may best be addressed.

And again, welcome, and thank you for sharing!

 Smiley
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 07:59:01 AM by Cathy » Logged

"The message blazoned across the heavens at the moment of birth is not meant to emphasize fate, but to arouse man's will to escape from his universal thralldom. What he has done he can undo. None other than himself was the instigator of the causes of whatever effects are now prevalent in his life."
Francine
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2012, 06:54:25 PM »

Thank you so much for the suggestion! I just did a horary chart with the question "does this look like a relationship breakup?" I have attached the chart.

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Francine
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2012, 07:05:38 PM »

I wanted to note that The Part of Fortune in this chart is the exact degree of their composite chart ascendant. Also Lilith is exact degree of composite Venus. I don't read horary charts so perhaps someone could help? Thank you!

The other thought that came to me today is wondering if this shows an unexpected pregnancy? I am not certain what to look for in pregnancy aspects but with his progressed moon ruled by uranus I know that can mean surprises, unexpected marriage, pregnancy etc.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 07:09:45 PM by Francine » Logged
James Williams
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2012, 05:33:02 AM »

Thank you Francine.  I'll throw in my 2 cents worth, and then maybe some other horary enthusiasts will be able to share what they see.

First, I see that there are two classical strictures against judgment.  The first one I see is that there are less than 3 degrees rising, and the second is that Saturn is in the 7th House.  Anthony Louis, in his book, Horary Astrology: The History and Practice of Astro-Divination wrote, "Traditionally less than 3 degrees of a sign on the Ascendant means the question is premature, and it is too early to answer it with certainty...The querent may need more information, or matters may not have progressed enough to determine the outcome.  Further developments may make the inquiry irrelevant.  If new information fundamentally changes the situation, the querent may ask a second time" (1990, p. 134).

And regarding Saturn in the 7th House, Louis wrote, "In horary practice, the 7th House represents the astrologer who is trying to answer the question.  Saturn or the signs ruled by Saturn on the cusp of the 7th suggest that the astrologer may have difficulty interpreting the chart...Saturn rules delays, and his presence in the 7th House suggests the astrologer may suffer a delay...in understanding the chart" (ibid., p. 142).
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"The message blazoned across the heavens at the moment of birth is not meant to emphasize fate, but to arouse man's will to escape from his universal thralldom. What he has done he can undo. None other than himself was the instigator of the causes of whatever effects are now prevalent in his life."
James Williams
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2012, 06:04:59 AM »

Now, Francine, in your first post, you mentioned that this relationship issue which is on your mind involves the son of a friend of yours.  So since you are the querent, you are represented by the 1st House significators as well as the Moon.  So your primary ruler would be Mars, since Aries is the sign on the Ascendant.  Secondary rulers for you would be all planets in the 1st House, which includes Uranus, Venus, and Jupiter.  And, of course, the Moon.

Now, your friend would be represented by your 11th House, which would be the 11th House in this chart since you are the querent.  Thus, your friend’s son would be represented by the 5th House from the 11th House, that is, the 3rd House of this chart.  So he would be represented by the ruler of the 3rd House, Mercury.  He is also represented by the Moon, since the Moon is located in the 3rd House.

Now, his girlfriend would either be represented by the 7th House of this radix chart, which is the 5th House from his 3rd House, or by the 9th House of this radix chart, which is the 7th House from his 3rd House.  And for me personally, I’m sensing that I need a bit more information regarding the nature of their relationship.

In your first post, Francine, you mention the phrase “new girlfriend” three times in the second paragraph, and stating that they have been together 6 months now.  So perhaps we all need to nail down first whether she is better signified by the radix 7th House (that is, the 5th House from his 1st House) or the radix 9th House (the 7th House from his 1st House).

Secondly, his and her significators would be in error if your “friend”, Francine, would better be signified by a house other than the 11th House, so perhaps we need to be clear from the start that your friend cannot better be described by a more accurate designation, such as, for example, a family member, neighbor, significant other, etc.

So this looks like a good place to slow down a bit until we all get more info on these questions…

Thank you again, Francine, for your willingness to share!

 Smiley
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"The message blazoned across the heavens at the moment of birth is not meant to emphasize fate, but to arouse man's will to escape from his universal thralldom. What he has done he can undo. None other than himself was the instigator of the causes of whatever effects are now prevalent in his life."
Francine
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2012, 07:57:54 AM »

Thank you so much Jim. About the new girlfriend, what I meant is that by the time the moon squares mars they will have been in a relationship for 6 months. They started going out Dec 2011. And I thought it a sitnificant aspect because it duplicates their composite chart which is a mess with mars squaring everthing including the moon, mercury and opposing uranus and the moon. Plus Mars is in a xritical degree and in detriment in 26 Cancer.

There is actually a closer relationship with the person in question which is why I said a friend's son. Actually his mother is my friend but her son was my daughter's old boyfriend. I didn't want to say that because I just wanted privacy on the matter but really, I don't know anyone else other than me is who into astrology and doubt they would find this forum and read it so there you have it.

I already believe the relatiinship will end when he has to come home in Sept as he is overseas for a year. He and my daughter broke up a month after he left and she is still healing from it. She firmly believes they would still be together had he stayed so it has been tough seeing him find a new girl only a month later.

But the Moon/Mars energy seems so harsh that I wasn't sure if it meant an accident, his grandmother illmand dying, or perhaps a breakup.
Thank you so much for helping me.
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James Williams
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2012, 06:24:06 AM »

Thank you again Francine, for sharing.  Your daughter then would be represented by the 5th House of the radix chart above, since you are the querent and represented by the 1st House.  So then the mother's son would actually be represented, I believe, by the 5th from your daughter's, which is the 9th House in the radix chart.  Because what you're really asking is, "Does the current relationship of my daughter's old boyfriend look like a relationship breakup?"

So then with Sagittarius on the 9th House, the son would be represented by Jupiter, and the son’s current girlfriend would then be represented by the 5th from the 9th, which would be the 1st House, with its primary ruler being Mars.

I’m going to cut it off here Francine, for now, since my knowledge of horary is not yet at the point where I can say with certainty that I have this set up correctly, for I’m still wondering if the word "relationship" has more of a 7th House “partner” connotation than just a 5th House “romance” connotation.

I’m hoping that at least a couple more of the more experienced horary practitioners that frequent this forum will comment upon my work to this point…

Thank you again Francine, for your sharing and patience!  And I hope your daughter is feeling better, as yes, she was put in a difficult situation...

Jim
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 08:06:12 AM by Cathy » Logged

"The message blazoned across the heavens at the moment of birth is not meant to emphasize fate, but to arouse man's will to escape from his universal thralldom. What he has done he can undo. None other than himself was the instigator of the causes of whatever effects are now prevalent in his life."
Francine
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 08:12:17 AM »

Thank you Jim, you know much more about horary than I do and you are very kind to have guided me this far.
Would this be considered an "invalid" horary ascendant? Further down in this forum I read:

"The invalid horary ascendant is further shaped by fixed stars conjunct the ascendant degree, the north or south nodes conjoining the ascendant, the ruler of the chart and its aspects, house and sign position...and last, but not least, the planetary hour..."

So I looked for a fixed star at 01 Aries and found: Kerb with the keywords: " Danger of being jilted by a lover, Ambition, vanity, intuition, bad judgment." It has the character of Mars and Mercury.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 08:23:51 AM by Francine » Logged
Francine
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2012, 12:22:07 PM »

New Question worded more specifically:
Will N breakup with Y when his Progressed Moon squares Natal Mars?
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Francine
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2012, 12:25:50 PM »

I hope that chart can be seen, I had to reduce size as the original size was too large. The first thing I noticed were the ascendant/descendant degrees. This is the ascendant/descendant degrees on their composite chart, interesting.
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waterbird
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2012, 01:45:28 PM »

Francine,

You do not give the time and place the Horary question was asked. You can only ask the question once and you must make the situation very clear as you are looking for an answer the Universe will understand. Always ask an opened ended questions that do not limit you from  asking a further questions.

You don't give the time and place for the horary question which is very important. The 'Ancients' used Regiomontanus house system but many use the house system that works for them.

To ask about the planetary positions is confusing to say the least.

Questions that are asked out of curiosity wont give a true answer or conclusion. If you have been requested to ask this question this is acceptable. A good Astrology program will offer the considerations surrounding the question. I'm perplexed about this question.

water bird
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 01:52:11 PM by waterbird » Logged
Francine
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2012, 02:32:25 PM »

That's Ok to be perplexed about the question, I am completely perplexed by Horary astrology. It was suggested that in order to resolve my question about the progressed moon squaring mars and  whether that was an aspect where this relationship would break up that I should do a Horary chart. I did it with what I thought was a confusing question so redid it today. As I mentioned to Jim, I do know that you are not to ask a question over and over until you receive the answer you want. I was simply trying to clarify what I was asking. It's fine if I have done it wrong or in some way messed it up. It is not earth shattering and I will learn more as time goes on.
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waterbird
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2012, 03:58:11 PM »

Francine,

I'm sure you will learn much more about Horary Astrology as time goes by. It's an intriguing and very interesting branch of Astrology. I wish you well. Smiley

water bird
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rj_smith
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2012, 07:39:50 AM »

Thank you so much for the suggestion! I just did a horary chart with the question "does this look like a relationship breakup?" I have attached the chart.




Good morning, Ms. Francine...

Welcome to our cosy confines..of the Horary section...

For many years, this horary section has always been perceived... as the back door or 'trash can' of Noel Tyl's fine discussion forum. Most of the main 'stars' of this site (and they know who they are? LOL) have tended to ignore this section over the years...

Maybe it's because they don't like 'me' or Yilmaz?  I am not really sure...you'll have to ask the critics... LOL

However, due to my own perserverance and enthusiasm for Horary astrology...this section is finally receiving the audience that it richly deserves...and we are now attracting exceptionally good horaryists... like Jim and Halina...and people not even interested in horary astrology... are starting to visit this section...

As I have mentioned, many times before, formulating the question is critical in horary work.

Here's the bottom line ? If you pose a crappy question, you will get a crappy answer...

Therefore, your original question was too vague and the end result was nonsense...a completely muddled answer.

I see that Jim and Waterbird were frustrated about that and I would be, too ?

Based on what I have read, I think that the advice given to you by Jim and Waterbird is very good and also, therefore, there is really not much that I can add, here ?

waterbird is right, though. You can only ask one question. and then, you must WAIT, until asking again ?

I would wait about one year before asking this question again.

Meanwhile, it sounds to me like you already know the outcome of this question, in your mind ?  You think that it is doomed for failure and therefore, your question seems tainted already ?

Not unusual, though, as many parents think THEY know best about the affairs of their offspring...But here's the issue...once they are adults, you have to stop meddling in their affairs and let them make their own decisions, for better or worse...

UNLESS you want to be perceived as an Adolf Hitler... Cheesy

You should try to be more objective about whatever question you ask, in future ?

In other words, " let Go...and let God" as they say ?

In these types of biased situations, I would highly recommend that you ask the question to another person, instead of answering it yourself?  In other words, go to a professional astrologer or a trusted friend with your question, versus asking it yourself ?

You will always get a better answer if you do that !


Good luck to you,


R.J. Smith


p.s. btw, you can't formulate a question based SOLELY on an astrology aspect... !  for good or bad !  

It doesn't work that way !






« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 09:21:25 PM by R.J. Smith » Logged
Francine
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2012, 08:18:35 AM »

Thanks R.J., let go and let God is a wonderful reminder. Something I have struggled with since my kids left home which is pretty obvious with my concern. My daughter is certain he will return due to dreams she has. i am not certain I want him to return to her due to some issues there. But whatever makes her happy is what I care about most and whatever happens it is her journey and her experience and learning along life's path that is ultimately important.

This is my first step into the pool of horary and it is a deep pool, whereas I am still swimming in the shallow end of basic astrology. Thanks so much for your answer.
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