Persona Charts

[Zuri]

I'm curious about the importance of persona charts in astrological analysis. I'm thinking of the Midheaven persona chart in particular. Is it a good companion to the MHEP, or too minor to be taken into account?

[Don Borkowski]

Could you please explain what a "persona chart" is.  If I've seen it before, someone may have called it somehing else.

DB

[Zuri]

Astro.com has a section on persona charts, which are akin to individual natal charts for each of the planets (except the Sun, as that's already represented by what we know as the real natal chart). They are to represent our "inner personality" for that planet:

"What Is A Persona Chart?": http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_pers_p_e.htm

"Twelve (Archetypal) Personalities": http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_pers_atp_e.htm

"Tips For Interpretation": http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_pers_int_e.htm

[Barbara Ybarra]

Hi Zuri:

Thanks for sharing that.  I had not heard of that technique.  Sometimes I feel the need for any extra little way of looking at something which might add a slightly different perspective, especially when it comes to something in my own chart.  Perspective for oneself can be quite biased.  

I was thinking that if there is a significant Oriental planet in the chart, it would be the last planet to be illuminated by the Sun within that first year of life.  There might be some message in that.  Like progressions and solar arcs, the once around the Sun can be symbolic, so I think there could be some value in these "persona charts".

Thus far I have looked at the persona chart for the first planet in my chart which was illuminated, my Mars, and I've looked at the persona chart for when my MC was illuminated.  I found interesting messages in both of them.  Since your question was regarding the MC, I can declare that the chart emphasized my career as a travel agent, which I find surprising.  I'd be interested in what other people say about their MC's persona chart.  I have yet to do any other research on it.  What about your own, Zuri?

Barbara Ybarra

[Don Borkowski]

Zuri:  Thanks for the references.  Once I get my own computer back, I'll be doing a lot of exploring.  Like Barbara, I'm intrigued ny any little bit that can boost my self-knowledge. 

In my heart of hearts, I want to repay Astrology for what it has given to me.  So far, I've made a few discoveries, even though the credit for one of them has been successfully stolen by someone else.  But I'm only 62, and I still have some ideas up my sleeve.

Don

[Zuri]

Hi Barbara,

My Midheaven persona chart is similar to my MHEP analysis of my natal chart: a communications-related career serving the public that incorporates alternative healing/helping themes, humanitarian themes, and working from home &/or ancestry-related work.

However, My Midheaven persona chart makes the communications theme more visually strong than in my natal chart. It features a stellium in the 3rd House, Midheaven ruler is in the 3rd, etc. My Uranus peregrine moves from ruling my 2nd House in my natal chart (in Libra) to ruling my 6th House in Aquarius, with Mars and my True Node in that 6th House in my Midheaven persona chart.

[Don Borkowski]

Zuri,
Don't let the semantics fool you.  I switched to the true Nodes in the late 1970s.  My consultations suffered.  I was forced into switching back to the mean Nodes in 1982 because my first computer couldn't do anything else.  Noel also prefers the mean Nodes.

Don

[Barbara Ybarra]

Thanks, Zuri, so very interesting.  Even though I have a Virgo MC in my natal chart, my Jupiter which is quindecile to the MC has been pushing me towards more exploratory behavior in my life.  In the MC persona chart, Jupiter ends up on the Midheaven, confirming Jupiter's all-around importance for me.  Sometimes an MHEP needs a second opinion, especially if it has a couple of themes going at once.  Maybe I will look into this more.

Barbara Y.

[James Williams]

Thank you Zuri, for this information.  For me, the Persona MC chart is definitely not too minor to be taken into account...just like the Jyotish Dashamsha, the Chinese BaZi, and the Career Palace in the Chinese Zi Wei Dou Shu are definitely not too minor to be taken into account...they all are different parts of the elephant, so to speak, for all of us blind people...the MHEP, of course, is also a part of this elephant...

 

[Halina]

    Pardon my ignorance but I am trying to understand how to produce these charts.  According to definition...."A Persona chart is the chart for the first transit of the Sun over the position of another natal planet.  All Persona Charts happen within the first year after a person's birth, when the Sun makes its first circle around it, and wakes up one subperona after another."
    So I go to Solar Fire, pull up my natal chart, animate it by month, days, hours, until I get Sun conj my natal Mars.  This gives my Mars Persona Chart right?  I always rotate forward not backward right?   And to get my MC Persona chart, I would rotate Sun to conjunct my MH and this would give me my MH Persona chart, right?   Or do you know any other method to get a Persona chart???   Help!!!
    Also due to Venus Rx, it took the Sun one year and 9 months to catch up and conjunct Venus.  So my question is this:  do these Persona charts take more than 1 year to take effect due to retrogradation of the natal planet or do we ignore rx and freeze the natal planet where it is natally?

[Alice Portman]

Interesting!  The Ascendant-Descendant of my Moon Persona chart straddles the Nodal axis of one of my children and the Descendant is conjunct the Sun of another - all within minutes of orb. 

My eldest child has planets in exact trine to the Ascendant of this chart and my brother has two planets with a degree orb of trine to this Ascendant.

So I go to Solar Fire, pull up my natal chart, animate it by month, days, hours, until I get Sun conj my natal Mars.  This gives my Mars Persona Chart right?  I always rotate forward not backward right?   And to get my MC Persona chart, I would rotate Sun to conjunct my MH and this would give me my MH Persona chart, right?   Or do you know any other method to get a Persona chart???   Help!!! 

This is what I did Halina.  Make sure that you have the exact degree, minute and second of the natal chart to get the correct angles for the Persona chart.

Alice

[Zuri]

   Pardon my ignorance but I am trying to understand how to produce these charts.  According to definition...."A Persona chart is the chart for the first transit of the Sun over the position of another natal planet.  All Persona Charts happen within the first year after a person's birth, when the Sun makes its first circle around it, and wakes up one subperona after another."
    So I go to Solar Fire, pull up my natal chart, animate it by month, days, hours, until I get Sun conj my natal Mars.  This gives my Mars Persona Chart right?  I always rotate forward not backward right?   And to get my MC Persona chart, I would rotate Sun to conjunct my MH and this would give me my MH Persona chart, right?   Or do you know any other method to get a Persona chart???   Help!!!
    Also due to Venus Rx, it took the Sun one year and 9 months to catch up and conjunct Venus.  So my question is this:  do these Persona charts take more than 1 year to take effect due to retrogradation of the natal planet or do we ignore rx and freeze the natal planet where it is natally?

At Astro.com, you can easily get your Personal charts by:

1. Clicking on the "Free Horoscopes" section (assuming you've already entered your birth data into Astro.com)

2. Scrolling down until you get to the "Extended Chart Selection" section; and

3. Under "Circular Charts", go to the "Please Select The Type Of Chart You Want" section and click on "Persona Chart" in the dropbox menu. It'll automatically take you to your Moon Persona Chart, but the additional dropbox menu shows a range of Persona Charts to select.

[Old Guy in Astrology]

In what way is this chart more useful than:
Solar Returns, planetary returns, lunar returns, secondary progressions, or tertiary progressions, and the harmonic charts, as well as the harmonics of each of the others too?

What new information is gained by these charts?  Does anyone know? 

[Old Guy in Astrology]

There is a long discussion on these charts here:  http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791

[Barbara Ybarra]

Hi Old Guy in Astrology:
Thanks for the link.  Someone in the discussion gives a very nice simple explanation and purpose of it.  I just use an old ephemeris and the rectify button to bring the Sun exact to the planet's degree.

As to what use it is, I think it either just further confirms and sets the understanding of that planet's role in life, or it can be said to add something more specific.  For instance, my natal Uranus in my chart suggests upsets and communication breakdowns (Uranus rx ruling 3rd), but its persona chart (which btw in real time is when Uranus goes direct and exactly squares my Moon), has Mercury conjunct the DSC in the same sign as Uranus.  To me that suggests that the chaos is meant to be expressed in the positive way of mentally intuiting from another source outside myself, listening closely to the "other".  Yes, it was the positive expression of the Uranus in the 8th to begin with, but when the first chart says "oh, this could be bad", the second chart (in this case) says "don't worry, just listen closely and it will come to you". 

Barbara Ybarra