The Power of Eye Contact

[Stacy]

Same here, Lopaka -- thought of Noel's essay on the Neptune Eye Flutter, as well.

Thanks for your post. I actually had been trying to find out if it was left or a right gaze that indicated dishonesty, but didn't get anything on Google!

Stacy

[Hudson Valley Astrologer]

Good morning,

Some time back I read a fascinating account of a therapist working with a patient who was quite high on the psychosis chart... he kept careful records of how the patient would try and manipulated the sessions with his eyes... and his descriptions were really quite amazing... wish I could find it... 

Anyway, the gist of the article which spanned a period of over a year, was that the eyes are an essential window to mental health whether we are looking at mental health issues that are severely constrained or swimming in blissful delight. We see it the person's eyes AND there is simultaneously a reflection/projection at work.

The therapist in the article wrestled with this and eventually learned how to adjust so that he would not "hold" the projections (or something like that) but at the same time "reflect" back to the patient without judgement or fear and with compassion. But in the context of the article he described the experience as an ordeal that he struggled mightily with...

In the everyday mundane I try and pay attention to both pairs of eyes. Mine and the "other." What is the pattern of eye movement and how does it align with the syntax of my/their speech? Are the pupils dilating? Or not? pdw I love your comment about "sensitivity" and "social role" etc. A soft gaze or a hard stare may be required in certain situations... on The Tyl Master Work Series Noel used an authoritative STARE in the EXTREME and said "believe it!" when he pronounce that Trump would be the next president. Well before the primaries... I didn't want to believe it and those eyes buggered out and gave me nightmares... which seem to be recurring, ever since. He was right!

Best,

HVA

[Stacy]

HVA,

I wonder of you might be referring to F. Scott Peck's THE PEOPLE OF THE LIE?  If not, a very worthy read.

Stacy

[Hudson Valley Astrologer]

Thanks Stacy.

I will check that out... no it was an obscure post that I pulled up somewhere... AND so impressed I printed it out. If I get my hands on it I will do justice to the authors view point which my post fell far short of...

Best,

HVA

[Meachiesfriend]

Hi James Williams,

This is a fantastic topic.  I have always felt conflicted by various lessons I've received about the impact of making/not making eye contact.

On the one hand, I was taught that making direct eye contact is honest and polite.  On the other hand, I have also been taught to close my eyes when listening intently.  So I would feel confused because I'm either going to be polite and not listen intently, or listen intently and appear rude.  I liked the suggestion to not make eye contact, because I really prefer to do away with appearances and hear what's being said.

I also liked pdw's suggestion to which I could definitely relate...I generally try to greet everyone, especially familiar faces.  I've spent the past 15 years trying to overcome any self-consciousness and practise my 'small talk skills.'  It's been very rewarding and I believe it has helped me and others establish trust and cut past the 'small talk' to more meaningful conversation. 

Robynne Black:  I'm right handed, and I like to tilt my head to the right, but I do that to isolate my right ear from other surrounding or distracting sounds.  Then I like to close my eyes and listen intently.   And as far as I know about Canadians, we too consider the wink to mean friendly acceptance.  I tend to wink when I've said something cheeky or playful, when I'm talking silly with young people, and also when I'm flirting (I never considered flirting as superficial, until I read your "Venus in Capricorn" description).

[James Williams]

Thank you Lisa, for your contributions here!  A most fascinating topic indeed! 

[Meachiesfriend]

Thanks for the response Meachiesfriend.

I'm a nana of 3 and have spent an awful lot of time with babies and children in my life. One of the most hilarious things I've witnessed, is when children are learning to wink. The facial co-ordination of them trying to do that for the first time, and the ensuing skew whiff facial expressions are just gorgeous. 

I've also worked a lot with autistic children who don't tend towards using facial expressions at all, so teaching them to understand emotions, emotional expressions and reactions, and to read what they mean, so they can interpret people's actions and moods, has been part of my work in the past.

Just a bit of background context here. 

Hello, Robynne  Black,
Yes, babies are adorable and children are hilarious.  My daughter's best friend has asperger's, so he shares some of the challenges you mentioned in interpreting moods and actions of others.  He is quite a brilliant child, however, he has always appeared more interested in making eye contact with video games or books than person-to-person, particularly when he graces us with extremely intellectual discussions or descriptions.  Anyways, my daughter is quite socially mature, and so the two children help one another; she has always helped him with social awareness and etiquette, while he challenges her intellectually (reading grade two or three level literature to her when they were barely beginning kindergarten, for example) and it's all been incredibly interesting to observe over the years.  I imagine that being a double pisces has gifted you with the patience, nurturing capacity and imagination required for the challenges and rewards of working with such high needs children.

Cheers,

Lisa

[robynne]

Thanks Lisa.

[Glaucus]

As a neurodivergent with Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD ,  I can totally relate to the following.

Dr. Harold N. Levinson refers to neurodivergence as Dyslexic syndrome because the symptoms of the neurodivergent conditions overlap.  More than one neurodivergent condition often co-exist with others in a person.   That's definitely true for me.
I believe that my neurodivergence stems from ultrasensitivity, pictorial/visual and nonlinear thought processes as well as nonconformist nature.   

I believe that my very strong transneptunian dwarf planet/candidate energy and my neurodivergence are strongly connected.




page 41 of A Solution to the Riddle Dyslexia by Harold N. Levinson, M.D.
 
Occasionally, dyslexics were considered to be negativistic on the basis of their hesitant, ambivalent, and anxiety-laden avoidance of handshaking and/or eye contact. Only in retrospect were these "anti-social" avoidance symptoms recognized to be due to primary somatic, rather than primary psychogenic, disturbances. Thus, upon neurodynamic exploration, hand contact was avoided because of right/left uncertainty and the anticipated embarassment of using the wrong. hand. In a similar fashion, upon analysis, eye contact was avoided in order to minimize (1) ocular perseveration, (2) directionally confused and dysmetric ocular ocular scanning mechanisms, and (3) the catastrophic discomfort triggered when "forced" to fixate moving facial features during communication.

For some dyslexics, simultaneous listening and looking were more than they could "take" physiologically, and as a result they tended to sacrifice direction-dependent looking or eye contact in order to preserve the direction and sequence of auditory verbalizations and comprehension. In retrospect, it appeared as if dyslexics could not simultaneously coordinate and integrate directional and/or sequential visual, auditory, proprioceptive, and motor processing.

[robynne]

Thank You Glaucus,



Can relate to that, its been a huge issue throughout my life, as well as being directionally challenged. 

Also with ADHD, there is a theory that children who skip the crawling stage, and go straight from sitting to walking, miss out an important step of co-ordinating boths sides of the brain and body. So when my and my friends children were babies, we were advised that they needed a lot of 'floor time' so that they developed proper co-ordination of their limbs.

There is a lot more understanding of neurodivergence now, but its still a fascinating topic to explore. A large amount of my family are affected, particularly by dyslexia, but also dyspraxia, adhd, autism.. etc.. but I also believe that a lot of mental health illness could be related to undiagnosed neurological conditions.

From memory.. You also have a Pisces Moon? Can I ask at what degree?

[Glaucus]

but I also believe that a lot of mental health illness could be related to undiagnosed neurological conditions.

From memory.. You also have a Pisces Moon? Can I ask at what degree?
[/quote]

That's because you're right.

Dr. Levinson wrote that neurodivergent symptoms tend to be mistaken for psychological ones.
Furthermore, neurodivergents having mental illness is common.
I was diagnosed as having anxiety and depression disorders.

Neurodivergent symptoms and psychiatric symptoms overlap a bit too.

I had raised the issue about needing to tell neurodivergence from mental illness.

Neurodivergence can and have been misdiagnosed as mental illness.

Neurodivergents are at higher risk for having mental illness than neurotypicals are.



In Tropical Zodiac,

Moon in 3'11 Pisces

trine Sun in 5'20 Scorpio
square Neptune in 1'48 Sagittarius
square Saturn in 5'08 Gemini R
square Jupiter in 8'17 Sagittarius


if adding Pluto fellow transneptunian dwarf planet/candidates:

trine Quaoar in 2'21 Scorpio
trine Varda in 2'22 Scorpio
trine Ixion in 5'25 Scorpio
square Varuna in 3'01 Gemini R
sextile Sedna in 2'06 Taurus R

[robynne]

Thanks Raymond,

I haven't looked into the Trans Neptunian's you've listed, so will check them out in the future.

Would be very interested in your 'take' though, on Barron Trump, especially watching the video of his fathers Presidential win.

To me, he looks like a very socially awkward child, quite tall for his age, dressed like an adult, that is positively uncomfortable with being in the spotlight and all the attention being directed towards the stage, it seemed like he was almost wishing himself not there, and was showing real signs of anxiety.

Would be very interested in what you see, if you choose to watch it. 

[Glaucus]

I have no opinion about Barron Trump.

I wouldn't want to speculate.

I don't know the boy.

[robynne]

Thankyou Glaucus,

I accept that. Thanks. 

[Robynne]

Yes T-R,

It was a fascinating thread. I liked that it had contributions that allowed for a lot of factors, cultural/neurological and societal reasons.

It also has contributions from Stacy a very valued and communicative forum member we lost over a year ago. It would have been her 59th birthday today, so it's nice to be able to have a wee read, smile and remember how much she really did contribute.