Author Topic: Chiron  (Read 18039 times)

Offline Ken Haining

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Chiron
« on: May 05, 2009, 07:00:18 AM »
Hi All.

Alice, who obviously is a very competent astrologer, uses Chiron.  When the interest in Chiron was first ignited I took a look at it, and didn't find it significant.  Straight and to the point, what are your experiences with Chiron Natally and in Transit?  Do you think that Chiron rules Virgo, as I read some had thought this? 

Any experiences with Chiron in transit that you could mention would be appreciated.  Are there any books that any of you would recommend on Chiron? 

Ken

Offline Stacy

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2009, 07:52:48 AM »
Hi All.

Alice, who obviously is a very competent astrologer, uses Chiron.  When the interest in Chiron was first ignited I took a look at it, and didn't find it significant.  Straight and to the point, what are your experiences with Chiron Natally and in Transit?  Do you think that Chiron rules Virgo, as I read some had thought this? 

Any experiences with Chiron in transit that you could mention would be appreciated.  Are there any books that any of you would recommend on Chiron? 

Ken


Hi Ken,

In Martin Lass's CHIRON, Healing Body & Soul, he discusses the Virgo/Pisces polarity as a key to understanding Chiron. This makes sense as it epitomizes both wounding and healing.

My own 4th house Chiron in Pisces opposes my 10th house Pluto in Virgo. Very applicable since my family is my major wound in this lifetime --all other wounds stem from this, and incidentally opposes my Mother's Sun-Mars conjunction.

I used to own other books on the subject but names escape me at the moment. I think Barbara Hand Clow is one author you might check out though.

Stacy

"If a man hasn't found something he will die for, he isn't fit to live."  MLK Jr.

Offline Don Borkowski

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2009, 08:06:13 AM »
The person who put forth the most energy into the study of Chiron, starting in 1977(!) is Zane Stein.  Zane can be reached through his website or through Facebook.

I feel that Chiron has quite a bit of affinity with Virgo, but I don't think that I can be objective about it.  I have Chiron conjunct the ascendant, but I also have a stellium in Virgo.

My first teacher/mentor, Press Roberts, had Chiron conjunct the Sun.  In fact, when Chiron is given full planetary status, he has Chiron oriental.  Otherwise, he would have the much more commonplace Mercury oriental.  Press had actually been a "wounded healer" at a time in WWII, when he as a medical corpsman with a back injury was treating other wounded sailors while sitting in a bucket of ice to numb his own pain.

DB
True astrology is that which can be taught to other people who can then replicate the teachers' conclusions through their own effort.  --Don Borkowski in July 1983 issue of MERCURY HOUR

Lura

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2009, 08:29:17 AM »
Thanks Don,

The teaching aspect of Chiron, by 'being' or 'doing' does seem to hit my Chiron conjunct Sun.  Chiron conjunct Mercury Rx, opp. Uranus Rx.

I was once told, with the interception in the 8th, that I'm here with two purposes.  1)  to serve  2) to teach detachment (this one has me going rough!).

However, 'detachment' can be, annoying another so much, that the other has no recourse but to detach!, (but I'd like to think I have a little more in the feeling department.)  And, it can be a vicious cycle, when ill-equipped with a Rx mindset, set in place when young, and one is caught in the throes of ...

But, nonetheless Press has that military thing in your story, where some of the most wounding occurs.

In retrospect and well, circumspect, this scenario of the biggest wound in my life, too played out in an aspect of violence and war.

When I was a kid, I became paralyzed in myself, and before a doctor put me on something, managed to get out of me, "Is it something you watched on tv? please tell me." 

I broke, it was in the 60's and the very real and reel of "Children of War," followed by Capote's "In True Blood."  It will take a lifetime to erase that imprint.  But, I'm determined to become an 'undisturbed' adult and manage my fear, like Vivien Leigh did.

Saturn opp. Moon, the best way I can visualize this, in my chart, is when I had nightmares, I would as a toddler, come downstairs, tiptoe into my parents' bedroom, feel the tops of the head of which had less hair, and he allowed me to crawl in and stop my shaking.  He was an Army man, always kept his firearm near, but a 'gentle giant.'  How does a child know this?

Years ago, someone told me this Saturn-Moon aspect can teach a child the "bully syndrome?"  However, I think my Jupiter in conjunction, has been a blessing, especially if all one has in synastry, is the same Jupiter. 

Chiron, I think he has trouble helping himself, but can be most effective with understanding others.  My introduction to Astrology was through the door of Chiron and the value I saw in it.  thank you Mr. Roderick Benns!  and you may not know, you too, had a hand in getting me to look at my whole self, as only you could.

Hope  you've found your own way of relief, I see so much in my line of work.  And, I gotta say, it may be God's way, for it is something, most times, one has to "work out himself."

My priest is currently in treatment, in seclusion, and just this morning, at an Ecumenical Breakfast, I saw the faces that are suffering his absence.  I pray for him alot.

Thanks for the steering to the pioneering efforts of Press and Zane.

ps.  I have difficulty showing my chart, because I even think it 'scares people' like a small football team facing the SF 49's.  "Easy to Read, Hard to Beat."  And, I know I'm on the long haul path to a major 'Lou hei...'



Lura

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2009, 12:36:59 PM »
Don,

I'd like to read more about Press.  Is he still alive?  Is your book out there?

Your story of "sitting on ice" to heal others, brought up more from my notes of Bion, Didier Houzel, MD, and an article of Renos K. Papadopolous for 'Context' magazine in UK, a psychoanalysis periodical.

In it, the latter reminds us of how soldiers when left out in the cold, don't necessarily bleed to death, for the body is enabled to develop self-healing mechanisms.  For instance, he says we think to wrap up the wounded with a blanket, but this actually prevents the body from attending to the trauma/activity to heal on its own.  He goes on to elaborate with 'therapeutic witnessing' with the wounded, not to readily change things. 

A sort of 'thawing' for one to 're-story' or restore the self to its totality.

I was particularly alert to Houzel's concept he coined of the 'psychic envelope' or psychic skin, skin ego, etc. that is SHAKEN by an event, not necessarily falling under the auspices of trauma.  So often the healer forgets the necesssary psychological processing considerations that must occur, for fruitful resolution.

So, Chiron and loss.  that space, container or home loss at the fundamental or primary core.  Fancy names include:  Disturbance, nostalgic disorientation, ontological insecurity, existential anxiety (Giddens, Laing), angst/dread (Kierkegaard, Sartre).  Deeply shared sense of gap, fissure, hole, absence, lack of confidence in one's own existence, consequently "reading in life" which leads to a particular kind of FROZENNESS.  Erroneously diagnosed often.

Could you  share any aspects to Chiron, Press may have had?

To make a jump to Eros, which is "aware of its mortality and recreates what it must to feel alive, aroused, arousing for feedback, striving for wholeness, mine is up in 10th, where in Howard Sasportas words  "what stands out," and I'm no Jim Morrison (K. Falcolner mentions), so my Vertex may truly be my way out!

There are such things as 'super-glue' bonds, which on its face look 'bad' but really contain or denote past life assistance or experience.  Interesting to see how Chiron would play into this.

Thank you Don, for sparking a little more for me.





 

Lura

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2009, 01:49:27 PM »
Don,

I'm not usually this pesky, well sometimes, when I'm feeling something.  Please excuse.

Thanks to you and your Memorial site to astrologers, I think I may have been given Press Roberts' chart.  Nice touch.

If so, I'm having, yet another lunar moment.  Thank you press and my name conjunct Moon in his chart.  also his progressed Moon conjunct my Vertex.  Thank you again.

Tr. Eros, 28 Aquarius conjunct Jupiter-Neptune-Chiron

Tr. Psyche, 14 Aquarius

Don, do you believe in immortal bonds?


Jim Birke

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2009, 06:14:37 PM »
Chiron is useless. Too small.
Eris, now there's an object that's useful.

Jim

Offline ODdOnLifeItself

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 03:20:22 AM »
Re: Chiron is useless.  Too small.

Of course.

How could anything with a mass greater than 2,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg possibly affect anything?

OD'd
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Offline pdw

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2009, 04:00:50 AM »
-for one to 're-story' or restore the self to its totality-

That's memorable etymology, Lura.  Thanks.   


Lura

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2009, 06:18:43 AM »
Thanks Gwendolyn and pdw,

Lynn Wincott at Universal Astrology has done some great work on the septile.  It's nature to 'sleep on it.'

Chiron reminds me of mate 'Hypnos.'  And, it's relationship to Saturn.  The ability to bring the 'filmy' fabric to its most beautiful frame.  Mannequin?  beautiful crystal in an ice bucket?  a cold beer

As Hans-Hinrich Taeger looks at Hypnos vs. Chiron, he sees this action as one that "catapults you out of your usual orbit of ego thinking and feeling habits."  What if one's faith was only film?

'Hypnos'-Cancer Rx opp. Saturn, square Venus, bq Mercury Rx-Chiron.  In the words of Lynn, and the septile, "things tend to be laid bare."  Why must everything always be broken first?

remember pdw, your Sabian "telephone line connection" for I think it is most valuable in restoration.

Lura

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2009, 06:37:25 AM »
Tr. Hypnos septile tr. Libran Moon?  A little 'magic' on a dewey morning.

Offline Ken Haining

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2009, 02:11:00 PM »
Hi All.

Perhaps a more direct question would be in order.  I understood what Alice was saying about Chiron and my 9th house, in the transit that took place back in April of 1994.  I have Chiron at 7 degrees 13 minutes Capricorn in my 1st house natally.  What is the Natal meaning of that?  Over the next two years or so, transiting Pluto will conjunct that position.  What would I expect from that?

I am trying to recall past events with transits involving that point to see if I can verify any significance with Chiron.  However, putting something down for a future conjunction might be useful.

Thanks
Ken
Birth info: 10/10/52, 12:02 PM, Far Rockaway, Queens, New York.

Offline sunflower

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2009, 07:52:22 PM »
All,

One of my teachers took a similar view on Chiron to those expressed here. She associates Chiron with the mutable cross Virgo/Pisces - Healer/Victim and Gemini/Sagittarius - Student/Teacher. I think she is on the right track here. Myself, I dont strongly have affinity to Chiron but I'm in no doubt many others do.

The Mythology surrounding Chiron is very helpful - Chiron was born with the torso on a man and the body of a horse. He was flung from the Heavens by his mother - rejected - as he was 'different'  to what she had anticipated. Chiron is a Centaur - they were a baudy lot not unlike the bikies of today - but Chiron, unlike other Centaurs was not rude or offensive. He was taught by Allolo and Diana and became skillful in hunting, medicine, music and the art of prophecy.Appolo entrusted his infant son Aesculapius to Chiron - he learned well and became a renowned physician. Chiron was the wisest and justest of all the Centaurs and at his death Jupiter placed him amongst the Stars as the Constellation Sagittarius.There's a lot more to read about the Myths of Chiron.

The Healing Journey by  Melanie Reinhardt - I'd recommend reading.

sunflower    :)
sunflower

Offline ODdOnLifeItself

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2009, 03:32:44 AM »
Very good, Sunflower

I also notice a correspondence with the Mutable Cross.

If we take Chiron "piecemeal", then we end up with many (possible) rulerships, etc.  Taken as a whole, it certainly encompasses elements of Gem/Vir/Sag/Pis...

Maybe it would be fruitful for some to discuss their OWN Chiron positionings...or their particular take on it...   It certainly couldn't hurt.

Have fun!

OD'd
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"If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed."  ~ Mark Twain

Offline Stacy

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Re: Chiron
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2009, 05:20:48 AM »
The Mythology surrounding Chiron is very helpful - Chiron was born with the torso on a man and the body of a horse. He was flung from the Heavens by his mother - rejected - as he was 'different to what she had anticipated.


Oh my gosh Sunflower! That latter sentence alone couldn't explain better my relationship with my mother. As I wrote in an earlier post I have a 4th house Chiron in Pisces opposite Pluto in the 10th...and my mother's Sun-Mars. In fact, she has a Virgo stellium cj my Pluto, though in wide opposition to my Chiron.

The opposition to Pluto is a very destructive, violent placement that requires attending to our wounds lest we self-destruct. If we can't/don't we retreat within (or self-destruct). This is a very very difficult placement and aspect for me. I still wake up in the middle of a nightmare occasionally with anger (mostly at my mother) so intense that I have found myself hitting the wall behind my pillows. She is completely ignorant as to the damage she has done, too. We do have other inter-aspects that reflect our troubled lifetime of relating, and Chiron in the 4th's meaning extends to the rest of my family, but first and foremost it screams MOTHER.

Currently tr. Chiron is cj. Neptune-Jupiter and my 4th house cusp, so I feel raw all over again. This is the last time after a lifetime, though. Holding it in --in essence protecting her from herself and her own actions, has taken too high a toll. With Saturn ruling my 3rd and Mars cj Saturn I have repeatedly bit my lip despite the cruelest of comments. I think Neptune through my 4th will end this pattern once and for all.  I think it will end up freeing me...

Stacy
"If a man hasn't found something he will die for, he isn't fit to live."  MLK Jr.