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Author Topic: Chiron  (Read 15503 times)
Ken Haining
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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2009, 03:06:15 PM »

Hi pnewman

You said:

[The astrology though is pretty interesting.]

I assume you are referring to Chrion since that is what this thread is related to.  Could you be more specific?

How long have you been studying astrology?

Ken
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pnewman
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2009, 05:31:22 PM »

Why?
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Ken Haining
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2009, 05:42:17 PM »

Hi pnewman

"Why?" is a rather general question.

Let me be more specific myself.  What is your take on Chiron?  Do you find it effect in Natal and Transit Astrology, and if you do, are there any specifics you could share with us? 

I studied astrology on my own, and then with the late Lionel Day in New York.  I studied with Lionel from 1970-1975.  I gave up serious astrological study for a period of about 19 years, and returned to it in 1995.  I have been studying it since then, and Chiron is something I looked at back in the mid 90s, but I didn't think it really worked.  Because an astrologer on this site uses Chiron, and because I respect her opinion, I am taking another look at it. 

Do you have anything to add to the discussion on Chiron?  Are you an astrologer? 

Ken


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sunflower
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« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2009, 06:40:29 PM »

Ken,

See if you can get a copy of Melanie Reinhardt's book on Chiron. Melanie is from south Africa and has such a gentle nauture and demeanour. I feel you could get quite a lot of what you are looking re Chiron in  this book. I met her and heard her speak here some years ago now and I could see why she has such an understanding of Chiron.

I dont see Chiron as a wounder at all. He is 'born wounded' as his looks of half man half horse displeased his mother so much she flung him from the Heavens! Isnt this rejection big time! Your real Dad left you when you were not able to take care of yourself? This has to had had a big effect on you

Dont worry if there are any members of the religious group who are still angry with you - thats their problem and they need to own it and not attempt project it onto you! Leave them with it and have no contact again - ever!

sunflower   
 Smiley
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sunflower
Ken Haining
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« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2009, 06:44:28 PM »

Hi All.

This is what I am getting so far.

Chiron is an object in astrology that represents wounds and healings.  Possibly wounds you, or causes you pain, in the process of healing you: like a surgeon cuts you to heal you.

Chiron is like a mixture of Saturn and Uranus.  I am not sure how that would work out.  

Chiron strictly heals wounds caused by other factors.  

I am looking at all of these.  Any other comments on these or other attributes would be appreciated.  

Ken


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Ken Haining
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« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2009, 06:49:43 PM »

Hi Sunflower

You said:

"See if you can get a copy of Melanie Reinhardt's book on Chiron. Melanie is from south Africa and has such a gentle nauture and demeanour. I feel you could get quite a lot of what you are looking re Chiron in  this book. I met her and heard her speak here some years ago now and I could see why she has such an understanding of Chiron."

I will try to find it.  Thanks.

As for that religious group I left 15 years ago, I expose them on the internet, which would explain in part their continued anger at me.  No worries.  They don't bother me.

Ken


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pnewman
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« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2009, 07:21:57 PM »

Ken,

I've studied astrology for a really long time---More than 40 years, ever since I was a sophomore in college.  I  know many of the astrologers who I have books on my bookshelf, and did know some of the ones who are dead.   Some I continue to have weekly communication by email. I've studied psychological astrology, conventional astrology, and I spent a really long time studying esoteric astrology.  Some of the time has been by myself, and some of it with some fairly famous astrologers.

I've learned enough to know that I don't know everything, and that astrology works in different ways for different people.  For some people the Sun is  a powerful element in their charts, and Solar Arc Directions work for them.  For others, who have a very weak sun(and there are many ways to define these strengths and weaknesses from the classical dignities, the weighting scales, to the scientific statistics of the Church of Light and more),  Solar Arc Directions are of less usage.

In my old age, I have pretty much given up symbolic prediction measures, and prefer various kinds of transits including the full return system(Solar, Lunar, Dirunal, Planetary, and Asteroidal).  I have studied asteroids extensively.

I think that you've been given a number of interpretations of Chiron.  I find all of the interpretations significant, but they can only be used within the context of the total chart process.  Depending on the circumstance, Chiron may be the Maverick, or the wounder/healer, or expression of unique or individualistic views and behaviors, or  refusal to conform with parental or societal expectations and standards or effecting turning points or changes in status.  My opinion is that the asteroids operate as a cohesive element, almost like a super planet.  Those that are highly aspected and conjunct the ASC or MH tend to be the most significant, and then the others allay around them and help define their actions in each chart.  Once you determine the theme of each chart, then you are in a position to determine the meaning.  Chiron must fit into this category.

But despite 3/4 of a Uranus Lifetime of study, its not my place to tell others what anything means.  Each has to open the door for themselves.

Paul Newman

P.S.:  My salad dressing is pretty good though.  ;-)
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Ken Haining
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« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2009, 07:31:17 PM »

Hi Paul

Thanks for those comments.  As I have said, I am still looking Chiron right now to measure and categorize the effects. 

Ken
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Lura
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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2009, 07:32:13 AM »

Michele Adler "Turning Points, Confrontations & Risks" is a good read (mentioned on this forum by an Astrologer awhile back).  Relates to 8 degree Cardinal.

Chiron comes from 'hand.'  Chiros, suspended time.  Looking at your parent's Chiron can show their preoccupations.

Involution/Evolution seem to be my compulsive destiny.  H. Blavatsky's image of the stone column and the circle.  Chiron figures in those helping another reach this destiny.

Prior to my own accidents involving concussions and falls as a child, I can easily bring up the feeling before hitting the pavement, of a very quick swoop/whoosh which plucked me momentarily before gently placing me down.  I saw this action very briefly in a window, when my father collapsed from silo gas when working in a silo on the farm.

I think it was Chiron.
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Lura
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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2009, 09:47:00 AM »

Chiron and the 'shake' of concussion, I'm feeling Lauren here.  How the debate continues as to the Saturn-Uranus relationship to Chiron.  How physicians do not agree whether structural damage is a result, from them.  Lauren, your doctor's work is good, for many ideas and healing paradigms appear in this process as well.

I am reading a 2006 e-book of Amy Biddle, "Soul and Body" at www.spiritual-healing-secrets.com.  It helps me understand my Chiron septile to Venus, Chiron Quindecile Vertex "teacher of chemistry" Sabian.  Her whole concept of 'heal' 'healan' (Saxon) whole, holy, cover, conceal, suspension, mortifies, "made dead under operation of disorganized chemicals" is astoundingly revealing to my IC and 'woman at well' opp. 'rush.'

When wires are crossed at birth, which I believe occurred with me, I like her take on a "profound philosophy concealed" in the communicant and the roots of, in her word, "spiritual ideas as petrified remains."  The outside is echo to the internal.

Gwendolyn hinted at this 'masking' aspect earlier, but now her valuable posts are gone.  As a child with concussion, I being told to "go in the house" and knowing that one must turn the knob, but desire is not enough, the connection broken, the door will not open...this is all in the realm of Chiron and its role in the chart.  When Chiron is no more, I hope we have learned well.

Ken, thanks I don't think Chiron has ever been looked into with this much interest.
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Lura
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2009, 07:09:57 AM »

Parents' Chiron placements:  Gemini (my environment in their woundedness)

Both involved siblings, death, shadow of their own identity, bullying fathers, have to prove themselves, anger, fighting, "with me or against me," tore at the marriage bond of their own and their parents (Juno), very poor communication, denial, suppression, hard to get at truth, don't cry, little reassurance, back-up, resolve it is up to them!

My own Gemini Moon daughter, I have learned, has needs that I had not been addressing.  She is teaching me how to love her and our bond has grown.

Saturn, the teacher, Chiron, the teacher.  She is graduating soon with a degree in Teaching.  She taught me how to forgive my parents and reconcile, the importance of it.

Saturn, the teaching of the wound.  I have to share very brief stories as to how Saturn comes around and makes things whole again.

Dad's wound:  He shares a personal experience (shocked by his reveal and feelings).  He wanted this car, real bad, growing up.  Pushed and pushed for it.  But, his Dad would not help him, worked him hard, even forcing him to quit school.

Well, at his confirmation, his Dad gives him this Bible, which my Dad proceeded to say, how nice, fitting...never opened it (my Dad believes in 'hands on' practical house raising spirituality).  Many years later, he opens it, and out falls a key to a car.  Chiron for sure.  They didn't know that about eachother.

Mom's wound:  Precognitive dreaming reveals to her that her brother has passed.  He is at peace and gives her reassurance and his love.  Many years later, the asteroids allay beautifully (P. Newman) and rebirth comes in the form of a great grandchild holding the spirit of a great many loyal and loving individuals that were part of the wound that nearly eclipsed her life.

Astrology:  Both Chiron squares to Saturn.  My father's Chiron conjunct Mercury-Juno; both shared in helping eachother with similar wounding.  He was the strong one, for Mom's Saturn conjunct her Sun-Moon with many squares.  She almost gave us seriously, two times.

Relevance to me:  Dad's Saturn conjunct my Sun-Mercury Rx-Chiron, opp. Pluto-Node 'blanket over hand grenade" (Noel).  Tr. Saturn conjunct his Neptune Rx, rules 9th, my greatest spiritual teacher.  It will be hard to lose him.
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Gem Ini
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2009, 07:54:16 AM »

Lura,

What ever happened to the car.  Don't let us hanging?  Was it a car that was always availible to him, but he never picked it up? 

Gem Ini
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Lura
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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2009, 08:21:41 AM »

I don't know.  I only respond to horses.

[My bets (never gambled) are on Rachel Alexandra! 'course that may just be a 'flight fancy' and fabulously satisfying finally coming out of the gate!]

My Dad did have a '57 Chevy with pink, bi-colored and it was a beaut! oh how he loved that car!

Mars opp. Venus-Uranus
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sevJohansson
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« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2009, 02:52:36 PM »

Are there other asteroids that do the same things as CHIRON?
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SophiaMendoza345
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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2009, 01:24:57 PM »

Depends kind'a on what things you think Chiron is.

For example, if you think Chiron is a maverick showing sudden change like Uranus, then you'd need to look at

Don Quixote:  swimming against the tide

Humptydumpty: changes that can't be changed back

Gong:  being dismissed, rejected, or thrown out

Dante:  a change that feels like a decent into hell

Damocles:  changing complete direction, or the fear of this happening

Harper:  when one is the maverick agent of change:  being a gadfly, harps and harp players, nusiance, meddler, whistle blower, busybody, pest

2002 AW197,  55565:  Widespread social or global changes

-----
At the fall of the Berlin wall in Nov 9, 1989,  Chiron was trining Mercury, Pluto, and the Sun and was conjunct Gong.  HumptyDumpty was trining Mars and opposing Venus and Uranus.  Uranus and Venus were in the 12th house of retirment and closing of an era.    As you would expect to see, this helped define this as a moment that would forever change the world.

Soppy
« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 01:43:55 PM by SophiaMendoza345 » Logged
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