Chiron

[Lura]

Sophia,

How interesting.  Enjoyed your post.  Just now, my mother called to bring my my Godmother/Grandmother's Lily of the Valley to plant.  This plant is known as 'Our Lady's Tears,'
Eve's Tears,' you get the picture, leaving the Garden of Eden, which happens to be my Venus Sabian, by chance.

You talk about walls, Rachel Alexander just won! how amazing.  This plant just happens to have a close tie with Saint Leonard of Noblac, who knows how to fight with dragons, do you know him?  He's from Vienne, and relates to 'Clovis.'

Astrology, maybe you can help me with it.  Today, the tr. Sun is conjunct my love's Sun, opposite my 'Photographia.'  Perhaps, 'Don Quixote' has been there all along. 

[SophiaMendoza345]

Photographica:

notereity, photography, famous, doing something big or small, lottery winning, but where there is some recognition involved.

While useful for showing the importance of photography and visual images, Photographica also relates to the brain’s ability to retain and interpret visual imagery.

Not knowing the rest of your chart,  it would be impossible to suggest more than the meaning for this particular asteroid.

Soppy

[sunflower]

Ken,

Melanie Reinhardt -page # 2.   

[Chiron's position, size and behavior are unusual:it is large for an asteroid, small for a planet and found where one was not expected, according to Bode's law. Perplexed as to how Chiron should be classified, astronomers coined the term 'planetoid'- meaniing planet-like. For simplicity I will use the word ''planet', which is derived from the Greek 'wander'.

Astronomically Chiron wanders with a periodocity of about 50 years, through a most ellipical orbit steeply inclined to the ecliptic: astrologicallly the theme of the wanderer, outsider, loner or maverick is relevant to Chiron. Some astronomers believe that one day Chiron may be ejected from our Solar system, having strayed from elsewhere like a comet and been trapped. However it will certainly be here to stay for our lifetime, and proving to be of more interest to Astrologers the more it's meaning unfolds.]

Hope this helps Ken for your interest and understanding of Chiron.

sunflower   

[Ken Haining]

Hi Sunflower

I have heard that Chiron may one day leave the Solar System.  Interesting that will all our sciences we are still not sure what some of these objects will do in the years to come. 

I wonder if there have been other "temporary" objects in the past that affected astrological interpretation? 

Thanks for taking the time to put that up.

Ken

[sunflower]

Ken,

You are welcome.

sunflower   

[Lura]

Ken,

A quick glance at an article I read yesterday re: Dion Fortune includes a little on her Chiron, the only planetoid in her 10th.

5 Leo:  opp. her Jupiter, sextile Moon, another sextile to Neptune-Pluto conjunction.  Sarah (author) and her words:  "...this image speaks of her ability to bring spiritual awe back into the consciousness of modern people." 

Chiron was not discovered during her lifetime.  Neptune is thought of the direct planet to the divine (per Sarah).

Perhaps, Chiron, in looking at the many pioneers of her time, such as Wheeler, Jones, Rudhyar would provide more.

[Ken Haining]

Hi All.

Thanks for all of your thoughts on Chiron.

Now I have another area of interest: Chiron in synastry.

Have any of you noted significant effects with Chiron in synastry?  I have had some encounters with Capricorn people who have their Sun near my Chiron at 7 degrees Capricorn.  I especially like the women.  I would always look for some other connection with my chart and theirs to explain the affinity I felt with them, but now I am wondering about their Sun being conjunct my Chiron. 

Do any of you have any experience with your Chiron position interacting with the charts of other people?  Or are you familiar with cases where there is a strong connection with Chiron in the synastry of lovers or other partnerships?

Thanks in advance for you answers.
Ken

[Robynne]

Hi Ken

My husbands Chiron is at 3 Pisces conj my 5 Pisces Sun. I remember reading in the past that the Magi society considers this a cinderella aspect, and as we have been together for 30 years, married for 26, it looks pretty classic. There are a lot of strong connections based around stelliums on our Ascendants too though, but thought you might find this interesting.

Cheers

[Ken Haining]

Hi Robyn.

In my case the Chiron on my Natal Sun would involve women about 6 years older than me, or girls in their teens.  So, I would look at my Chiron on the woman's Sun position, that is Capricorn women.  How do you think it works in reverse, with the man having his Chiron on the woman's Sun?  I always liked Capricorn women, but there are other factors.  The ones with the early degrees, however, seemed to like me as well.  Just never really connected with one of them. 

I am, naturally, wondering about Chiron in connection with other planets in synastry, as well as the Sun.

Ken

[Robynne]

Hi again Ken,

Have just been reading back through this thread to keep up with the play.

Now that you mention that point with women and their Sun’s in early degrees Capricorn making connections to your Chiron, I have 3 close friends that are born in the same week as me, so their Suns are at 3-6 Pisces, and my husband also has a very easy connection with them, they got on well right from the beginning.

I think I relate mostly to the ‘wounded healer’ aspect of Chiron, as time and again I have seen Chiron’s natal placement and aspects shows a spot where people are fantastic at helping and healing others with their issues in  a similar area, often from their own very hard won learning curves, and experiences of their own sense of woundedness

I am thinking that when Chiron gravitates towards someone elses Sun, that the Chironic person is drawn towards what the Sun person offers and naturally shines at.
This could make the relationship a potentially healing one, not necessarily for the long term but for the time of contact. In any case, I think it would certainly shine light on issues.

Great topic to pursue as Pluto makes its way towards your own Chiron, I’ve also found that Melanie Rhineharts book Chiron and the Healing Journey is an excellent resource.

I have an example of Chiron natally and a major effect by transit in my own chart, but it may take me a while to focus and write it up. Interestingly enough it also involved a near death experience as well, but this could be that my natal Chiron opposes Pluto in the 8th.


Cheers

[Ken Haining]

Hi Robynne

You said:

"I have an example of Chiron natally and a major effect by transit in my own chart, but it may take me a while to focus and write it up. Interestingly enough it also involved a near death experience as well, but this could be that my natal Chiron opposes Pluto in the 8th."


I would be very interested in reading that.  I hope you get the time.

Ken

[Robynne]

Hi Ken and all,

Have included data for the event, and I hope this is easy enough to follow. I know I’m straying from the synastry aspect of Chiron here, but hope this highlights an example of Chirons effect. The week from the 16th to 22nd of August 89 was so intense, and although not included in the description below, my grandfather also died during this time and his funeral was on the day my daughter died, sometimes I look back and wonder, did all that really happen in such a short time? But it does highlight a time period.

Natal info

4:17 am
25 February 1963
Auckland, New Zealand

Event chart

2:00 pm
16 August 1989
Tauranga, New Zealand

Tr Chiron 13 Cancer in 5th
Tr Pluto  12 Scorpio in 10th
Completes water trine with  Moon 13 Pisces 2nd (natally opposing Pluto 11 Virgo in 8th and trine Neptune 15 Scorpio 10th)

Event:

36 weeks pregnant, undiagnosed placenta previa, resulting in life threatening haemorrhage, necessary to perform emergency caesarean under general anaesthetic. Left my body during this time, clearly viewing obstetrician, doctors and midwife from above, hearing a snippet of conversation between the two registrars present.

Baby girl in severe distress from birth, died 6 days later, 22 August 89.

Chiron in Cancer 5th, wound around nurturing a child, (was unable to physically hold her as she lived her short life in an incubator), and was also concerned that I was unable to bond and feel the love and motherly connection that I had on my first daughters birth.

Now I realise there were other major influences here going on at the same time, so cannot just isolate Chiron alone, but feel it was definitely part of the whole picture.

Pluto was within 3 degrees of conj with natal Neptune in 10th (supernatural/out of body experience and parental house), square Mercury ruler of 5th. 

In the long term view, with natal Chiron Moon opposing Pluto activated, I’ve spent a lot of time over the subsequent years involved in supporting other mothers through their own grieving and emotional processes after the death of their babies. My understanding here is that through encountering others with similar type wounds, it is an opportunity to heal, gain perspective and come to terms with what has happened.
I now understand that without this experience, I probably would have not had the depth, compassion or courage to enter into this area. Along the way I have also met mums who as a direct result of the loss of their own children, have made decisions to pursue careers as funeral celebrants, grief counsellors, kindergarten teachers, and support people.

In your own event chart, I noticed that Chiron had just entered the 12th, but was conj tr Pluto, so am wondering if we could look to Chiron Pluto contacts, to highlight a more intense effect?.

Well that’s enough from me for the moment.. I’m enjoying this thread and reading of everyones thoughts and experiences..

Cheers

[Alice Portman]

Hi Robynn

Thank you for giving us this data.

I think you probably resonate strongly to the Placidus house system and the reasons why are as follows:

The Placidus 5th cusp for 4.17 am is 10Gemini20.
Natal Pluto is at 11Virgo01 retrograde
Natal Chiron is 10Pisces09

So you have a  T square between Chiron, 5th house cusp and Pluto within a one degree orb.

Mercury, the ruler of the 5th house, is in quincunx aspect to Pluto in the 8th house in an orb of only 0.23'

Difficult aspects between the 5th and the 8th can often describe the death of a child.

At the time you lost your child Secondary Progressed Pluto had retrograded to 10Virgo20, exactly square the Placidus 5th cusp.  This would make you vulnerable to miscarriage the whole time that degree and minute was in operation if it was triggered by other factors.

Solar Arc Ascendant was conjunct natal Chiron with a 0.15' orb and therefore also square the 5th cusp.

Vertex arc Mercury - the ruler of your natal 5th cusp - was at 10Pisces43, conjunct natal Chiron and opposite natal Pluto as well as square the 5th cusp.  This indicated a 'destined' event.

The Profection Vertex was just separating from a conjunction to natal 8th house Pluto.

At the death of your child transiting Mars was activating all these points.

Another thing that may be interesting to members of the forum:  I have posited that as the Part of Death is derived from the formula Ascendant + 8th cusp - Moon, perhaps this can be used for derived houses in the death of a child e.g. 5th cusp + 12th cusp (8th from 5th) - Moon giving Part of Death of a Child. If this is the case, then you had Solar Arc Chiron conjunct this Part at 6 Aries.

Alice McDermott

[Robynne]

Thanks  so much for looking at this Alice,

I never thought of using Placidus, that does make a difference to the house cusps and a much tighter focus on the 5th house cusp with the t square of 1 degree orb.

As to the Part of Death of a child and Chiron arcing to this point at 6 Aries, although our baby had multiple concerns,  birth asphyxia, renal failure, and others, the final issue was a major brain haemorrhage, grade 4 on the right and grade 3 on the left, so Aries would represent this.

Although, I’ve not spent any time studying the Vertex, its involvement here definitely supports Chirons story, wow!. I’ll be paying more attention looking for Vertex events.

Have printed this off and will study further..

Thanks again for your time.

[Lura]

Ken and others,

I had a personal incident with Chiron yesterday, which brought instant learning.  A rare incident of hurt between husband and wife, forgiven, but then I said words of which I do not know where they came, "If truth is heard, then there is no one to blame."

Barbara Hand Clow is someone I've read often in beginning understanding of Chiron.  It is her today, I return.  Of all places, just a section in a bigger book of many others (of whom she appears to have the only astrology connection), entitled "Fireball & The Lotus; Emerging Spirituality From Ancient Roots," edited by Ron Miller & Jim Kenney, Bear & Co., 1987.

My point:  it appears to serve as a bridge between various perspectives of past and present creativity, for 'pregnant thought' emerging into a new healing paradigm.  Very Chironic.  Clow is a good resource within these perameters.

My discussion with Noel on 'Passionate Chastity' seems to reflect a passion for a connection with past. Thus Clow's chapter entitled:  "Reincarnation as Method for the Divine Quest."  My Neptune-Eros MH in Scorpio has always suffered a precise definition, and I think she helps me.

"Eternal love is Eros, a compelling love for life."  [p.228]  In participating in this lifetime, I am learning to read my ancestors' language, in my completely amazing process I've discovered, in genealogy.  Just this morning, I received a call to visit someone with many momentos I would find interesting.  The timing, again is surreal.

Astrology, she (Clow) profers the feminine may be key, not in terms of feminism, but in terms of buried wisdom, a re-gathering during times of crisis, and an invitation to what she calls the new 'Cosmic Party.'  Eris & Chiron at the same party?

When I stopped blaming my parents, an amazing shift occurred in time.  Reincarnation in astrology? Richard Henry Drummond notes it as an 'Intelligible option for those willing to explore the cosmic significance of the Christ event in all of its past, present, and future aspects." [p.235]

With a Saturn Ascendant, I think I was born underneath a big dark cloud, that is only beginning to pull away.  But, if that is so, perhaps it is beginning to cease providing me necessary cover to process fear based thinking, and assisting my eventual step into 'soul time.'  Learning to channel healing power from its creative center.

That is Chiron in a nutshell.  I'm only beginning to reconnect with the healing power in my very long past and no doubt, ancestral assistance is something I hold in high regard.  Bless all those who help us see our shadows and wounds.  Neptune carries the dreams of others?  Chiron helping another with destiny.