David Bowie, the legendary Musician

[jon layton]

I see I put both his mother's death and his daughter's birth under the umbrella of the Uranus arc to the speculative Moon-Pluto conjunction. Both dates are there I just made it confusing. And of course the Space Oddity release should be July 11th 1969 not 2969. Typing in a hurry again.

Kannon you may want to check out this site it provides a ton of dates so it may help with the detail your looking for.

http://www.bowiewonderworld.com/faq.htm

[robynne]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bowie_discography


This might help:

The dates of all of his album releases, it is consistent data, maybe worth a try.

[Daleth]

In the case of an Aquarian Ascendant and Pisces intercepted in the 1st, ruler Neptune in Libra, it would be good to consider that David Bowie's personas were simply that, different personalities he created for the stage. If astrology is true, then his core identity should be covered by his Sun-Mars cj in Capricorn and Moon in Leo. But a 12th house Sun will be private or be happier 'behind the scenes'. So as for his core identity, I imagine only his wife or children would really know that, but the nature of his career made him public property in a way, which may be the case with all stage performers.

Wow, do you know how right you are?! His widow, Iman, has said on several occasions words to the effect that, "I didn't marry David Bowie. I married David Jones [his birth name and still his legal name]. David Bowie is a persona." Here's one story that mentions that:

'“I didn’t marry David Bowie; I married David Jones,” Iman told Vogue in June 1994. “The David she walked down the aisle with in 1992,” Vogue said, “‘doesn't read anything past the Renaissance,’ spends time bent over an easel and reads to her at night at their Swiss chateau.”'
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/01/11/david_bowie_s_marriage_to_iman.html

And it's interesting you mention the aspect of 12th-house Sun people being happier behind the scenes, because Bowie's first career goal was not to be a singer/performer, but to be a songwriter--as a child and early teen he wanted to write musicals, and then he wanted to write songs for other performers to sing. That didn't work out, so he became a performer... but even so, he performed in a mask: Ziggy Stardust was an invented persona that he said, in many interviews, he played like an actor.

"BOWIE: I really wanted to write musicals. That's what I wanted to do more than anything else. And it kind of - because I liked rock music, I kind of moved into that sphere, somehow thinking that somewhere along the line I'd be able to put the two together. And I suppose I very nearly did with the Ziggy character.... I thought that I could do some kind of vehicle involving rock musicals and presenting rock and characters and storyline in a completely different fashion.

GROSS: So was singing something you started doing to come - so that you could do that kind of theater?

BOWIE: It was - well, it was the conception that, I mean, God, I would love to have handed it on to somebody else. And I guess Ziggy would have been the perfect vehicle to have done with. I don't know why, to this day, I didn't find some other kid, after I'd done it for like six months, and said, here you are. Put the wig on and send him out and do the gigs, you know."
http://www.npr.org/2016/01/11/462653510/david-bowie-on-the-ziggy-stardust-years-we-were-creating-the-21st-century-in-197

[Daleth]

Daleth, Daleth Daleth ... where to start. You speak as if I am not aware of everything you have listed.

...No, 9 AM is not a viable time producing a viable degree to work with. You may be incredulous, but I'm working with important factors you are not aware of and have not included in your considerations.

You are working with theories that you insist are correct. I am working with the time of day that Bowie's mother said he was born. In other words you are working with your personal belief system--your "Chart Validations Standards"--while I'm working with a reliably sourced fact.

Listen, I'm a Capricorn (Sun-Mercury conjunct in the third). If I have to choose between a fact and a theory--if the situation is such that they can't both be true--I'm choosing the fact, because the whole purpose of theories is to help us explain, understand and anticipate facts. If a theory doesn't do that, if it's irreconcilable with facts, it's wrong. Unless I'm working in the realms of imagination and the nonrational--in other words, artistic creation, spiritual exploration, etc.--I'm going to go with facts every time. Facts can prove a theory wrong, but theories cannot prove facts wrong.

And your theory, at least as I'm understanding what you wrote, is empirically unprovable because you don't let facts interfere with the theory. That is, if someone tries to point out that a specific person's reliably-sourced chart shows a weakness or error in your theory, instead of tweaking the theory, you change the chart(!). That to my mind is a completely irrational and wrongheaded way to practice astrology. It's a refusal to learn, because you think you already know everything.

You said, for instance:

Bowie most definitely did not have an early degree of Aquarius rising. In spite of the very good surface evidence, that degree area was easy to eliminate.

It was easy for you to eliminate because you are not willing to consider that anything about your theory might be wrong or incomplete. You thus seem to care more about clinging to your theory as you currently understand it than you do about testing your theory against reality--that is, an accurately sourced chart. But testing theories against reality is how you refine and perfect them; it's how we grow in our understanding of astrology, instead of letting our minds ossify around one sacrosanct, unchangeable theory.

Tell me this, have you ever rejected the time on a birth certificate in favor of a totally different chart that you "rectified" based on your theory? I bet you have, since that's just about what you're doing here. Bowie's birth time comes from his mother. It's hard to get a more accurate source than that, and in places like England, which doesn't put birth times on birth certificates, it's impossible. She said 9AM; rectifying to 8:52AM or 9:18AM is one thing, since 9AM is almost certainly rounded, but moving his birth time 15 hours later, to a completely different time of day that his mom couldn't possibly have mistaken for 9AM, is an unbelievably cavalier thing to do.

My approach to rectification allows me to move past "allegedly" or other word of mouth quotes related to birth times... It is amazing how they create pre-loaded confirmation bias.

Clinging to your theory no matter what the facts are, and insisting that a time you chose solely because it fits your theory (and to hell with the facts), is a great example of confirmation bias.

My last statement that you quote, "All events must show in progressions" is ironclad....If a chart fails to show tight secondary progressed aspects for dates of key life events when considering all such aspects, then it is incorrect.

Right, I know your view is ironclad; in other words, your theory is god and you will not deviate from it no matter what the facts are. You even believe that transits alone can't show significant events, which to put it nicely is a minority view among experienced astrologers.

You can cling to the early Aqua Bowie chart tightly, as if it were 'yours', but it is exactly that mindset that prevents consistently accurate rectification work.

How do you know it's accurate, if you reject facts that suggest your theory might have some flaws? In other words, how do you know your theory is accurate if you refuse to test it against facts? Your approach is completely tautological.

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Hello

Re: "In other words, how do you know your theory is accurate if you refuse to test it against facts? Your approach is completely tautological."

Correct...

Rather than get into a polemic situation, just compare the styles.  Isaac has likely rectified more charts than any of us and yet, he is quick to make adjustments or admit to an error.  ie. He knows that a rectification is an assumption and sometimes assumptions are wrong.

Then, we also have Kannon.  Without even finishing the rectification, he can already tell others that their rectification can't possibly be correct.   ie. 10% of the work, 110% of the bravado.

Speaks for itself...

Show the astrology across several systems, highlighting the astrology at actual events, and see which case is the most consistent.   Even Lilly made the comment that the best way to rectify a chart is to line up Primary Directions (though he used a different system) with the actual events in a person's life.  This is exactly what Isaac is doing.  Polaris finds the potential birthtimes which display the best performance (appropriate astrology) across all of the events, using (Topocentric) Primary Directions.  Then, these birthtimes are checked in other (reliable) systems to see which performs best...  ie. most likely correct

My advice for Kannon... spend more time displaying why your proposed time might be right and a whole lot less time explaining why no one else could be correct.

James

[Daleth]

Just came across another tidbit: Bowie's cousin, Kristina Amadeus, was 4 1/2 years old and staying with Bowie's family when he was born. She says she remembers his laboring mother "shouting all night" (it was the 40s, Bowie was born at home), and then Bowie's dad putting her newborn cousin in her arms the next morning:

"Speaking to the Radio Times, she said: “I was in the house the night that David was born. I remember it being very cold, and hearing my Aunty Peggy shouting all night, and wondering what on earth was going on.

“The next morning, my Uncle John [Bowie’s father] put me in this stuffed armchair, right at the back so my little legs were just hanging over the side. Then he put this tiny baby in my lap, wrapped up like a sausage. That was David. I was proud as punch."

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/lifestyle/entertainment/david-bowies-cousin-recalls-stars-brixton-birth-and-quirkily-creative-youth/

[James Williams]

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bowie,_David

Source Notes

LMR quotes biographers Peter and Leni Gillman, "Alias David Bowie," Hodder & Stoughton, 1986, p.41, gives 9:00 AM GMT, "from his parents." His former wife, Mary Angela Barnett, gives 9:00 AM in "Backstage Passes," written with Patrick Carr, G.P. Putnam's Sons, New York, 1993, p.31. Craft quotes "Bowie: A Biography" by Marc Spitz for 9 AM, Three Rivers Press, 2010, pg. 5. Bowie was born at the family home in Brixton, therefore his parent's recollection of his birth is likely the most accurate. Other astrologers quoted 23:50 (Libra ascendant).

(Gary Lorig quotes him personally for 9:30 AM GMT, at UAC 5/1998. David Douglas, "David Bowie," gives, "just before midnight," 1975, p.3.)

Sy Scholfield confirms from an online copy of the birth certificate that "David Robert Jones" was born on 8 January 1947 at 40 Stansfield Road, Stockwell [1].

The BowieWonderworld fan website states "He was born on Wednesday, 8th January 1947 at 22:59hrs at 40 Stansfield Road, Brixton, London, SW9 9RZ, England." No source given. [2]. Swiss astrologer, Tibor Tausz, blogs in July 2014 that "The man and owner of this website - a Mr. PAUL KINDER from the UK - sent an email to me this year on the 22-JAN-2014 CONFIRMING that this birth-time was written down personally by DAVID BOWIE and also SENT to him (Paul Kinder) by DB - quite likely in the years between 1998-2000. The email Mr. PAUL KINDER from the UK sent to me goes like this: 'Hi Birth certificates don't have a time on them, only a date. The time listed on BowieWonderworld is 100 per cent correct. Info came directly from DB. Every single book ever written on Bowie have several mistakes. Cheers Paul'" [3]

[Daleth]

Interesting, James. But Kinder's claim contradicts Bowie's parents, his cousin who was there (and says his mom labored all night and his dad placed newborn David in her arms in the morning of Jan. 8, which would be impossible if he weren't born until 11PM), and his first wife who got the information before he was famous.

And what is Kinder's claim? "Bowie wrote this down himself and sent it to me at some point near the end of the 20th century, though I can't remember when." Okaaay. Is there any reason Kinder hasn't provided a photo of the written-down birth time, so we can compare the handwriting to the vast array of real examples of Bowie's handwriting that are out there (for instance, https://www.dazeddigital.com/music/article/30431/1/we-got-an-expert-to-analyse-david-bowie-s-handwriting)? Has he lost it, and if so, is he even remembering it correctly? And is there any reason we should believe that an artist who notoriously had fun with the press and the public by saying contradictory things about himself was telling the truth, if/when he wrote something down for Kinder?

That time also results in a chart that doesn't fit as well. Instead of having all planets but one above the horizon, as befits someone who was so famous and made such an impact on the culture, most planets are below the horizon. Instead of having an incredibly powerful Moon-Pluto-Saturn-descendant conjunction angular and thus very prominent in his personality, it's off in the 11th house. Instead of having Venus conjunct the MC (as befits a famous artist and sex symbol) from the 9th house (as befits a man who married foreigners -- his American first wife and Somalian second wife), it's in the third house.

And above all, that birth time gives him an almost identical chart to serial killer William Bonin, who was born the same day and year, with the same rising sign (Libra) that this supposed birth time would give Bowie: https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bonin,_William

I don't buy it in the slightest.

[Robynne]

Has anyone cross referenced with the birth of his son Duncan Jones?

At least you would be dealing with an undisputable fact.

Just a thought....

[Daleth]

Has anyone cross referenced with the birth of his son Duncan Jones?

At least you would be dealing with an undisputable fact.

Just a thought....

Duncan was born May 30, 1971 in London. AFAIK his birth time isn't known, and as he was born in England it normally wouldn't be on his birth certificate. His Moon is somewhere between 15 Leo and 27 Leo, depending on the time. Like his dad, he's got Moon in Leo, lots of earth (3 planets in Taurus and one in Virgo, vs. David's three planets, including the Sun, in Capricorn), and a dose of Aquarius (Mars in Aq, vs. David's Aquarius rising). His Sun at 8 Gemini is conjunct David's NNode at 9 Gemini.

[amymaddalozzo]

To my knowledge, Bowie, died of liver cancer.  Is there any link in Bowie's chart (libra rising), between jupiter and his 8th/12th houses?   AMY

[Robynne]

In the Aquarian Asc chart he has a 9th house Jupiter square Pluto, Amy. The 9th house influence might add more credence to Jupiter's association with the liver.

I also read that his will stated that he wanted his ashes to be left in Bali in accordance with Buddhist practice, but not sure how true that is....

Thanks Daleth for the additional info..

[Daleth]

I also read that his will stated that he wanted his ashes to be left in Bali in accordance with Buddhist practice, but not sure how true that is....

That is true. He studied Tibetan Buddhism in the 1960s and almost became a monk, but Chime Rinpoche told him to go back to music instead. Rinpoche told him he would help the world more as a musician than as a monk. Looks like Rinpoche was right!

Chime Rinpoche and his 50-year friendship with Bowie: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/david-bowies-buddhist-david-rang-me-up-and-said-i-have-a-very-bi/

Article about Bowie's request to have his ashes scattered in Bali in accordance with Buddhist rites: https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/david-bowie-requested-ashes-to-be-scattered-in-buddhist-ceremony-in-bali

The fact he almost became a Tibetan Buddhist monk and retained a lifelong orientation towards Buddhism (as well as Gnosticism) is another vote in favor of his having that powerful Sun-Mars conjunction in the 12th house, as well as Venus in Sag in the 9th and Jupiter in the 9th sextile his 12th-house Sun. He was a mystic and a spiritual seeker.

Also, the few who lean towards attributing Libra rising to him need to consider that it's kind of weird for a person with Sun-Mars-Mercury in the 4th house (as Bowie would've had if he had Libra rising) to spend 2/3 of his life living in foreign countries. The 4th house is your homeland. His life abroad -- starting from age 26 he lived in Los Angeles, Berlin, Switzerland, Australia, and for the last quarter-century of his life in New York city -- is much more consistent with the 9th-house placements in his Aquarius rising chart, as well as with the fact that in that chart, Uranus is in the 4th. Uranus in the 4th is often associated with separation from one's homeland.