Author Topic: OBAMA Transition  (Read 45382 times)

Offline Starflower

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2008, 11:58:41 PM »
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There has been no verification of the truth of any contradictory rumours and yet they still abound. To me this seems absolutely disgraceful.

A disgrace … mundanely, a transiting planet’s fall from grace (in detriment)?!   ;D

Makes for rather a good novel really ...

If the document’s forged, then it’s been done with conspiring officials at:

  • The Hawaii Department of Health; on Oct. 31st, the director of Hawaii's Department of Health issued a statement, proclaiming that he had personally seen and verified that the state has "Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record," which shows that he was born there.
    •   The Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics
    •   The Illinois Secretary of State’s office;
    •   The Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois & many other gvt agencies

Evidence proving Obama’s Hawaii Birth:

1.   Public release of short form Birth Certificate
2.   Formal verification by Hawaii Department of Health
3.   Honolulu newspaper birth Announcement (The Sunday Advertiser, Aug. 11 1961) http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/obama-was-likely-born-in-hawaii/
In 1961 birth announcements in such papers came directly from the Vital Statistics Office

Potential reasons for not wanting to release full form:

1.   It’s private.  By law it’s private. A need to draw firm lines of demarcation between what’s private & what’s public, determining what's frivolous & when enough’s enough. 

2.   Obama considers he’s provided sufficient evidence to prove his legitimacy, which includes both the required birth certificate & statement from relevant Hawaii Authorities providing testimony to its authenticity, without further succumbing to the demands of the media (gossip columns & conspiracy theorists).

3.   Recognizes that even if releases long form birth certificate it’s authenticity will also probably be questioned (just as shortform was).  It would not end such theories - no amount of proof suffices as it does not serve opposing/averse personal agendas.

4.   Recognises that in some instances instead of attempting to appease the ever consuming fires of curiosity that constantly invade someone’s private life by demanding  ‘give me more, more, more’ – the rational approach is to starve it.  No fuel, no fire.

5.   When is enough proof enough?  Probably considers he’s provided sufficient proof & verification.  And legally, he has.

6.   The lawsuits were lodged not in the interest of the public or the nation (that appeared to be a masquerade) but were in service to personal agendas  – ie. political, power &/or monetary (such as the one lodged by author Andy Martin in Hawaii) http://africanpress.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/obamas-citizenship-questioned-lawsuit-in-hawaii-filed-requesting-birth-certificate
 

Some considerations from an astrologer’s pov:

1.   Do we work with the evidence we have or with the evidence we don’t have?

2.    How often is it that we get fully verified complete birth data of high profile public people?  Is it perhaps partly because such occurrances are so rare that the data's distrusted?

3.   If consider the Hawaii birth certificate invalid, then the time & date are equally invalid.  Equally questionable.   Therefore, if toss out Hawaii birth certificate as invalid (half invalid brings into question the other half) then working with essentially nothing but idle speculation about what his mother may have/may not have done.

4.   That Obama’s mother had simply changed the birth place, not time & date (which is contrary to evidence that has been provided) is wild supposition which can also erode the credible objectivity of astrology lending credence to it.

5.   For objective & credible astrology, any speculation requires some basis in supportable fact/evidence rather than just a rumour.

6.   Has Berg’s claim as to having a telephone tape recording of Obama's grandmother's supposed claims been proven? Has the tape been released? Or is this simply internal party politics, rivalries, power plays & grandstanding for attention?

Obama’s provided proof.
Where’s Berg’s proof?
These rumours in the media lead back to one source - Berg.
So far, it appears in fact to be “Berg claims that Obama’s grandmother claims his birth took place in Kenya”.
Burden of proof resides with Berg.
It's been an exercise in obfuscation & media mileage (sensation’s good for show ratings). 


Wikipedia:
Phillip J. Berg of Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania, USA, is an attorney, 9/11 conspiracy theorist, and activist who brought a lawsuit challenging the eligibility of Barack Obama to become President of the United States.

Berg's legal career has been marked by incompetent lawyering, negligence, and sanctions for ethical violations.

He was successfully sued for legal malpractice by former clients on whose behalf Berg had neglected to file a response to a complaint in an ERISA lawsuit, resulting in a default judgment being entered against the former clients….The court fined Berg $10,000 and ordered him to attend six hours of ethics training.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_J._Berg

Ouch. What a write up. Does Berg qualify as a credible source? 

Instead of Obama’s chart, how about a look at the accusing party, Phillip J. Berg?

 Anyone have Berg's data?


« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 01:12:26 AM by Starflower »

Offline Jozef

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2008, 01:42:13 AM »
I agree with you starflower. A birth certificate is as good as it gets in astrology. I think we should go with the chart we have and not waste anymore time on the conspiracy theorists who have no compelling evidence.

Offline Colleen

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2008, 11:09:33 AM »
Hello Donnalyn and Don Borkowski and the rest of the astrologers on this forum

I too am troubled by the controversy of where Obama was born. On Nov 26, 2008 I had received this message from one of my dear friends who listens to the radio all the time to keep abreast of the situation.

This is what she sent me:

I heard on the radio news last night that Justice Clarence Thomas is taking Obama's birth
certificate issue under advisement on Dec 5.  Interesting... They said, apparently the Hawaii birth certificates are issued with a different border around them every year.  They said O's HI b.c. doesn't have the correct border on it to correspond to the year in which he was born.  Will be interesting to see how they wiggle out of this one!!!!


I have been doing diurnal charts using Obama's birth time of :
August 4, 1961 at 7:24 PM in Honolulu Hawaii
157 W 52
21 N 18

I set up the diurnal chart for Novemeber 25, 2008 with the above lat and long:
and the house cusps for that day are:

MH 17 Pisces 40 conjunct T Uranus at 18 Pisces 44 RX Shocking news to him that will definitely change his position in life

Asc 28 Gemini 32 with T Pluto conjunct the 7th house cusp at 28 Sagittarus 58

Transiting Pluto conjunct his 7hs tells me he has some open enemies threatening to take him down and destroy him.

With his natal 4th hs ruling his diurnal ascendant he will be involved with basic issues dealing with his home, and family, and where he came from. Where was he born? Where did his mother come from?

The 9th house cusp is 18 Aquarius 16 conjunct his natal ascendant with T Neptune making a hard aspect to his progressed Vertex at 6 Libra 49. he will be involved with legal matters that will directly affect him.

The T moon set for his birth time was at 18 Scorpio 02  in 5th hs square his natal Asc and sq that 9 hs cusp showing great difficulty in legal matters that he will have to deal with.

the 12 hs cusp is 26 Taurus 13 moving up to square his natal nodes at N Node at 11 Aquarius in 8th hs shows this is a fated matter that is bound to cause him much grief, pain, and sorrow. The hs of self undoing or the things that we do to ourselves that destroys us.

The Arabic Part of Peril is sitting right on his diurnal ascendant. As long as Saturn is ruling his 8 hs he will have that Part of Peril on his ascendant for some time now

T Jupiter is making a hard aspect to natal Pluto in his natal 7th hs shows others are revealing things that he wishes where best left undone or unsaid, but with Pluto he has to deal with them.

This diuranal Asc is squaring his progressed Sun is not good to have in the 4th house of the chart.

Ruler of the Gemini Asc is Mercury located in his diurnal 6th hs Conjunct the dirunal Sun at 4 Sag. Mercury Combust the Sun is very unfortunate.

Now looking at a diurnal chart set up for December 5, 2008 we have 28 Pisces 23 on the MH and opposite his Prog Sun at 28 Virgo 14.
The T Moon is now in his diurnal 9th house for legal affairs at 18 Pisces 23  conjunct T Uranus.
The BML is at 8 Capricorn 46 RX conjunct his 7hs of open enemies.
The ruler of the Dirunal Asc is the Moon located in that 9th hs.

Other diurnal charts for him that I had set up show the same pattern so I am wondering if this Hawaii birth time could be like an annoucement chart. Meaning this is the person that he is pretending to be, or that side of his life that he want to project to the world? The chart seems to fit, and I wish I had more time right now to set up his other birth location chart.

I have tried to locate a news story on this story of Justice Clarance Thomas taking this matter under advisement, however I can not locate any other news about it. I believe there could be a news blackout on it. Perhaps one of the astrologers who is a lawyer could locate this news story to see if it is true. I have found Snopes is not good for detecting the truth of a news story.

I am still trying to figure out how he was able to overcome the mood void issue and win the election.

Others with wiser minds than mine might be able to tell me.

Cheers!
Colleen






Offline Jozef

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2008, 02:05:05 PM »
Hey Colleen; I hate when astrology gets political as it distorts things. Free Republic is a well known extreme right wing blog and it has very little (if any) credibility in the mainstream media. I would intensely question anything I read on it, and I would check it out well before I started passing it around. ::)

Just my opinion.  :)

You might want to check out this link at fact check which is a non partisan blog. This is old news and it amazes me that this story is still gets circulated.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 02:09:10 PM by Jozef »

Offline Starflower

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2008, 03:59:44 PM »
Hello Jozef,

That this rumour caught fire and spread like a contagion was reflective of the less-than-honorable mundane manifestations of last tr Jupiter rx, collected by Mercury & distributed via the Moon for public consumption. 

In Obama’s chart this draws attention to the 12th house of secret enemies where we see both Jupiter rx (Jupiter to do with lawyers, publishing etc) & Saturn rx (the administration, the halls of justice), Jupiter on the heels of Saturn, dogging Saturn's tracks with a level of vitriol, behind the scenes & brought forward into the public arena (7th) via trine to Mars.
 
Keeping in mind this is a brief external look at what's gone on, rather than Obama's internal dynamics.

In tropical, trSaturn disposits both nJu-Sa rx and is applying to nMars – crunch time.

This is suggestive that the proliferation of negative assertions that arose on the back of Jupiter rx transit (eg. Berg) will be put to bed by a higher authority such as Saturn (eg. the courts).   
After this, Saturn then moves into Obama’s 8th, a dimension of which is that which is 'dead & buried' potentially laying this mischievous issue to rest once and for all.

At the same time we have tr Jupiter direct on a positive mission marching forward to join Obama’s nSaturn rx, dispositing tr  Mercury - which has just been “resurrected” under the Sun’s beams (under Sun's control) following its union with this luminary … a reinvigoration of the legality issue in Obama’s 10th house of public life as it joins tr Mars (r 9th, 10th), which looks like being brought under control, possibly behind the scenes, via the applying trine to Obama’s nSun.  Indicative of a judicial decision, this time with a dimension of finality.

What surprises me somewhat  is what appears to be a complete failure in all this to consider the source of this wildfire, ie. Philip J. Berg. 

Berg’s assertions, which to date remain unsubstantiated & yet to be proved,  have captured certain elements of the public’s imagination and flared alight, a bit like a flash in a pan.

If it were a health issue [which effectively it is, ie. a threat – albeit probably minor in the greater scheme of things - to the health of Obama's public position] we’d stop to consider the source rather than further inflaming the contagion. 

But instead there’s been a lot of accusatory finger pointing at the “patient”, his siblings and family lineage.

A focal point for this being Obama’s public nMars (disposited by Mercury, disposited by nSun – his paternal lineage) square nVenus r 3rd (siblings) & 4th (also a parental reference) to which the brakes (tr Saturn) are being firmly applied.

People often like that old saying of where there’s smoke there’s fire.
In this instance the “fire” is/was Berg (Jupiter rx & Mars) which has been lost sight of for all the smoke … upon whom it looks like the courts & Obama might just lower the boom.

If anyone does have Berg’s data, would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Starflower.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 05:07:44 PM by Starflower »

Offline Colleen

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2008, 08:13:08 PM »
Hi Jozef

I just wanted to tell you that I do not know what Free Republic is. I try to stay away from the extreme right wing blogs. I do not read any political blogs as I just do not have the time to read them. I find the astrological web sites have more than enought reading for me.

I endevor to maintain an even, middle of the road thought process. I have an equal amount of Democratic and Republican friends that send me their thoughts, and I just pass them on.

The point that I was trying to make was that his diurnal chart does seem to indicate that he was born in Hawaii.  If it is true that Justice Clarance Thomas is looking into the matter of his, Barack Obama's birth certificate, than Pluto on the ascendant for that day clearly shows that he has some open enemies that want to bring him down.

I believe that we will and have the President that we are supposed to have to fullfill our country's destiny.

Just as George Bush was supposed to be our President in the years of 2000 and 2004.

And we will have Barack Obama as our next President if he is sworn it to be our next President. A lot can happen between the cup and the lip. Meaning the milk in the cup can be spilled out before it reaches the lip.

I am just curious as to how he managed to over come the moon void.

I will go to the sites you suggested to see what they are all about.

Cheers!
Colleen




Offline unique_astrology

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2008, 10:15:55 PM »
Here is a good blog regarding the Obama birth certificate flap. It is the best I have seen.

http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/11/27/6-ways-challenges-to-obamas-citizenship-fail/

Offline Jozef

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2008, 12:01:52 AM »
I am just curious as to how he managed to over come the moon void.
Hey Colleen; No problem. There was a thread about this on the old forum and I will repeat what I wrote there. I don't think that the VOC Moon is much of an issue in a chart that is not a Horary or Electional chart. I have seen too many transit to charts I know where a VOC occured and I just don't think that it amounts to much.

This is a different issue in a Horary or Electional chart where you are using specific rules that give a Void of Course Moon meaning in that context. It is my belief that it does not translate to most general astrological applications.

Offline Starflower

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2008, 02:28:28 PM »
Moon VOC – “seldom see a business go handsomely forward when she is so.” (Lilly) 

Which is different to the generally accepted “nothing will come of it” that it’s often attributed.

The Moon is void approx. every 2.5 days.  If we applied this generically beyond context it indicates business fluctuates every 2.5 days approx.

Context is important.  That Moon void appears as a punctuation mark several times relating to Obama does suggest relevance within context of the events. It holds some significance.

Something to consider …

When Moon’s void it’s in a state of transition – from one state to another.  In context, Obama is the leader elect who embodies the current state of transition for US.  His election is a very public break from past attitudes, previous directions taken etc.

For the people who’d accumulated an aversion to the direction things had taken, an aversion to the old guard, he is representative of the transitional phase punctuated by Moon void that will eventually crystalize into a new direction.

So rather than his overcoming Moon void, he IS the representative of the transition it represents, Obama being the man of the times, the leader elect for the transitional period.
Also, his being an even-tide chart means the Moon (which culminated in his chart) is the prime luminary for consideration. Moon Void - transition.  His nMoon in Gemini at IC -  a culmination of change.

That "seldom it goes handsomely forward" … of all the undertakings he could have pursued, this is going to be the hardest,  hard yards.  He’s inherited a serious situation that demands a change in direction, eg. the economy, involvement in wars etc. Not a lot that’s pretty (handsome) or easy to negotiate about all that.

Will probably involve being in uncharted waters/new territory (a bit chaotic) for a while, but the direction forward will become clearer.

Also, the last aspect the Moon made before transition can be telling as it gives an indication as to the nature of energy it’s carrying forward that first undergoes the qualitative change. 
The energy will evolve … how it evolves and is translated forward depends on whether the transition into a new state is supportive of its energy, or resistant to it. 

For example, if Moon in final stage of Pisces carries forward a trine to Mars during its transition into Aries, the transition is into a qualitative state that’s supportive of the direction of martial energy. Change from diffuse to directed.

 Whereas if the transition was from Aries to Taurus, expression of the martial energy Moon’s carrying forward is tempered. From directed to consolidated.

If consolidated, less likely to see something immediately manifest in the short term.  Also involves consideration of the planet the Moon will translate this modified energy to under the new conditions, which planet collects the modified form of energy .
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 02:47:24 PM by Starflower »

Offline Jozef

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2008, 03:56:24 PM »
Moon VOC – “seldom see a business go handsomely forward when she is so.” (Lilly) 

Which is different to the generally accepted “nothing will come of it” that it’s often attributed.
I would point out that Lilly is speaking in the context of a horary question or an electional chart. I think one should really understand the difference between a horaray or an electional consideration versus a natal or transit situation.

Have you ever seen a VOC in a natal chart? Does that mean that "nothing will come of" the nativity, or that the life of the native will "seldom go handsomely forward?" Of course not.

The ideas about a VOC have been misattributed in my opinion. Context is everything and a VOC only has relevance in an elctional or horary consideration. Using the fact that there was a VOC at the time of the election to validate the idea that somehow this means that Obama's birth record is fraudulent is barking up the wrong tree as one has nothing to do with the other in my view.

Offline Starflower

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2008, 05:55:12 AM »
An Horary chart is a transit chart.
As is a decumbiture, election ... & a nativity for that matter.

For Lilly, VOC could apply to any planet, but primarily the Moon.

- In Horary"if Moon be void of course there’s no great hopes of the Question propounded that it shall  be effected, but if Moon be in Cancer, Taurus, Sagittarius or Pisces she’s not much impeded by being void of course."

- And of reports, news etc:  "If Moon void of course, the news proved to be of no moment, usually vain, or mere lies and very soon contradicted ..."

- Decumbiture (chart for the moment someone took to their bed ill): "When at first falling sick of the infirm body, the Moon is void of course, and at her next Crisis meets with sextile or trine of Jupiter or Venus, in that very degree which makes a perfect Crisis the sick shall recover … "

Reception between VOC Moon & another planet (via house, term, face) can bring things to fruition that Moon VOC might contra-indicate.  Ref. A 12 of Lilly's Bk 1&2

For Al-biruni VOC meant:

"if while within a sign a planet does not enter into conjunction with another, although in aspect to other planets, it is said to be void of course and is regarded as having separated from conjunction whether in that sign or not.  This name is given to it because the field is empty and it moves without any companion."

Quote
Have you ever seen a VOC in a natal chart?

Yes, but that's probably beside the point.

As for Nativities, ref Firmicus Maternus:

For Firmicus VOC applied only to the Moon when moving toward nothing (“running through a vacuum”) which the Greeks called cenodromon (empty course)… ie.

“If the Moon is so located that she is moving toward nothing (void of course), is in aspect to no planet, and there is no benefic planet on the angles, this will make paupers destitute of all necessities, without means of daily life….

"For when the Moon is void of course she involves the early years in wretched misfortunes.  But after she has for a time troubled the body and mind and ruined their youth with many crimes, dragged them here and there in miserable journeys, then she bestows good fortune equal to the mishaps of youth”
(Ref. Matheseos, pge. 123)


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Does that mean that "nothing will come of"


Believe I indicated earlier (perhaps not clearly enough) that this somewhat skewed generic interpretation was incorrect. 
Probably the result of an over-simplification. Don't know who coined that one.

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Using the fact that there was a VOC at the time of the election to validate the idea that somehow this means that Obama's birth record is fraudulent

What are you talking about?  How did you leap to the conclusion that VOC Moon was in some way being used to argue Obama's birth record is fraudulent?  Especially after I'd listed proof verifying it.  I suggest you re-read my post . 

I simply drew a parallel between VOC moon on election day (& there's other significant days where VOC moon is a punctuation mark for Obama) which indicates matters being in a state of transition, of change, with Obama who is the man that's been elected to lead through a period of transition/change, who's chart falls primarily under the dominion of the Moon with the natal Moon culminating (lower) in a sign that's a facilitator of change (Gemini). 

« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 06:40:11 AM by Starflower »

Offline Colleen

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2008, 08:44:46 AM »
Al Morrison and his 45 year research on moon void

Have any of you out there (as Pink Floyd would sing) ever read any of the works of an astrologer named Al Morrison?

Al Morrison studied the Void of Course moon for over 45 years and his conclusion was that the moon was void after its last Ptolemaic aspect to the sun or one of the planets, and that the semisextile, quincunx, or other minor aspect could not save the moon from being void. He also concluded that neither Chiron nor the asteroids could stop the moon from being void either. Al supported the traditional definition.

Does this mean that we should throw out all his observations that he made over a 45 years?

I am truly perplexed here regarding this matter of the moon void. I have seen with my own eyes and ears what happens when someone tries to begin a project, or promote an idea during a moon void phase of the moon. I have been watching how this world operates on a astrological level since 1967. These rules do work.

When someone tries to start something during a moon void period, they encounter such a black lash they either give up or wish to hell they had never started the whole thing in the first place.

When events are started during a moon void, for example when a new President is being sworn into office during a moon void period, their Presidency becomes infected we all kinds of mishaps, nothing is accomplished that they had promised during their election. The job of being president overwhelms them to such an extent they literally can not accomplish anything of significant.

What other rules that us older astrologers have used will be thrown out? The rule where you should wait 24 hours after a new moon before you begins a new project? Give the moon 24 hours to age a bit, like fine blue cheese.

I can give you one perfect example of what happens when someone decides that the astrological rules do not work let alone apply to him. My second husband, who was a brilliant man, head of all the financial departments of a big named International Company. He decided that the rules did not apply to him and he was going to prove to me.

There was a terrific sale at one of the biggest brand named stores. They were selling the top of the line suits. The suits were 1/2 price, and what a bargain. He thought that nothing could go wrong. Right I said! You just go ahead, buy those suits, and see if you ever end of wearing those suits.

Being a short man, he had to have the suits altered. No problem he said. The tailors at the store will make the necessary alterations. After he picked the 4 suits up from the tailors he looked at them, smiled at me, and said, “see I told you there will be no problem. Your rules don’t work do they?”

He was smiling all the time until he went to sit down while wearing one of these terrific suits. Then he discovered that there was a problem. He could not sit down while he was wearing the pants. He was at work and telling everyone about the terrific bargain he got. So he had to stand up for the rest of the morning until it was time for lunch. He came home and told me that there was a problem with the suit, so he changed to a different suit. Same problem, he could not sit down while he was wearing the pants. So he tried the next 2 suit pants and he still could not sit down.

He asked me to look and see if I could figure out what the problem was as I had always made my own clothes, I could see at a glance, what the problem was. The tailor had altered the crotch area in the suit pants in such a way that they could not be returned to their original length. My husband was now the proud owner of 4 suits that he could wear, as long as he did not want to sit down while wearing them.

He was too proud to make a fuss about it at the store so he put the suits into the Good Will bag and chalked up the experience as One point for me, Zero for him. Yes, those rules do work!
Cheers!
Colleen

Offline SIDERUM

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2008, 12:23:51 PM »
Today at 10:27 (+6), Obama Introduces a National Security Team.
Robert Gates would remain as defense secretary
Hillary Rodham Clinton as secretary of state.
James Jones as White House national security adviser
Eric Holder as attorney general
Janet Napolitano as secretary of homeland security
Susan Rice as UN Ambassador
Kind Regards
Mario

Offline Starflower

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #58 on: December 01, 2008, 02:21:36 PM »
Hi Colleen,

Delightful story!!! :D

Yes, Moon is prime.

 
Quote
I am truly perplexed here regarding this matter of the moon void. When someone tries to start something during a moon void period,

Perhaps this is key in that you're looking at these days as a "start" point for Obama.
 
Instead perhaps consider the election day (inauguration etc) from the angle of a "culmination point" of all his hard work ... the "culmination" being regime change.  It was also a day when the public (Moon) voided (voted out) the existing administrative rule.

These VOC Moons being more reflective of an "ending" for the previous regime which will not be fully concluded until Obama's inaugurated.  While inauguration day marks an official public beginning for Obama, his work on the job has already begun. The inauguration a culmination of several years hard work resulting in change, an official confirmation of the public's voiding of the previous administration ... but a beginning for him, no I don't think so, he's already begun.

In view of the environment (financial climate etc) it's probably going to be a bit wild & woolly for a while, but he'll be hitting the ground running, fully briefed and up to speed on the various issues & with some strong ideas on how he intends to go about his duties.  There'll no doubt be resistance in some areas to changes he'd like to implement, there's always an element resistant to change ... but change things will. May be of interest to keep an eye on anything left over from the previous administration (eg. policies etc) that he chooses to "void".

The other thing is if following tradition in relation to VOC, then it's also part of tradition to consider any reception (via sign, term, face) which can carry things forward to successful conclusion.


Thanks for the update Mario, he's getting well organised.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 02:23:24 PM by Starflower »

Offline Jozef

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Re: OBAMA Transition
« Reply #59 on: December 01, 2008, 02:27:59 PM »
Hello Starflower: The comment about VOC Moon being used as some kind of justification for the continued attack on the validity of Obama’s birth certificate was not directed at you, but to those who keep making that case. I apologize for not making that clearer in my post.

In regards to the meaning of a VOC Moon; while a horary chart is a transit chart in the broadest sense that is not its purpose or intention. A horary is a chart cast for a specific moment in time for the sole purpose of answering a horary question. It has very specific rules that govern how the chart is read. In that sense it is nothing at all like a natal chart or a transit to a nativity.

I am a student and fan of Lilly’s work and the astrology he practiced was almost exclusively horary, electional or medical. In all of these applications there are very specific rules for what the chart means and for the most part these are divinatory techniques in which the rules of application only have meaning in the context of those systems.

Your medical quote is a case in point. Now the kind of astrology practiced by Lilly, and even Al-biruni was based on these rules for horary, electional and medical astrology. In very rare cases was natal chart done and when it was it was usually for a royal or very prominent person. The astrology practiced by most astrologers in the west hardly resembles the type of astrology that masters like Lilly, Ficino and Al-biruni were doing.

Now there are some – Geoffrey Cornelius comes to mind – who practice horary at a high level, and they and others who are horary, electional or medical astrologers who do practice this type of astrology and who do adhere to these traditional rules. But for most western astrology they do not apply.

Colleen; Yes I am very familiar with the work and research of Al Morrison, but I have to say that without seeing the charts and case studies I am not convinced that some other astrological factor may account for his conclusions.

I am only stating my opinion based on my experience. I have had a few clients with a VOC in their nativity, I have seen hundreds of examples of transits in which there was a VOC, and I am not convinced it has any particular meaning or value outside of the its intended context which is horary, electional, and medical astrology.

I think it was Ray Merriman who recently wrote that modern astrologers will have to rethink their view of what a VOC means in light its lack of effect on both Obama’s nomination and election. I am of the opinion that Mr. Merriman is correct.

Thank you for your thoughts.