a closed circuit of intellectual self-sufficiency (air grand trine)

[saturn]

I need help in understanding what this really means in everyday terms. I'm not bright enough to understand the psychological technical concepts of how this is described in Noel's books. Can someone please help bring this down to earth? Barbara, can you help me, please?

Thank you.

[Antonio]

Meanwhile, we can ask Hiroky Niizato:

Grand Trine and Necessary Defense Mechanism:
http://hniizato.com/grand-trine-and-necessary-defense/

 

[Barbara Ybarra]

I think you are more than bright enough, Saturn, but I'd be happy to offer my two cents.  I wish more of Noel's students would participate here.  Hiroki's presentation is perfectly Noelian, very helpful.  Any of the GTs in any element, make it easy for a person to dismiss the advice, help, or input from others.  It is the "I can do it myself" syndrome, even though it certainly cannot cover all aspects of life.
 
An excellent example of the air GT is Bobby Fischer's GT of Mars-SaturnUranus-Neptune.  Obviously if Mercury were involved we would recognize the thinking skills more readily, though he did have Mercury in late Aquarius (Mars at 0 Aquarius).  Bobby's Mars was conjunct to his DSC, so he exhibited a self-contained defense-attack system that was paramount in his life.  It became everything to him to win, not physically with bodily strength, but with his intellect.  He shut out just about the whole world, and though he had a partner later in life, I doubt that it was a give-and-take relationship. He hid within his grand trine and let it dominate him.

To me, if a person has a grand trine, it becomes very easy to depend on its smooth operation, and use it to the exclusion of the problems in life which arise from our significant squares, conjunctions, and oppositions.  When we ignore those fourth harmonic parts of ourselves, and hide our deeper emotions, then we are not participating in life the way we are meant to do as souls.  We are only going through the motions.  Since the chart is a gestalt, we have to consider that the real function of any grand trine is to use it in service to the hard aspects, helping us with our emotional work which we came here to do.

So...that is my two cents, anyway. 

[robynne]

Neat thoughts here on the air grand trine, does it have to be a defense mechanism?

I wonder if Jungs superior and inferior functions apply here, ie we tend to use our most dominant element because its easier or what we know?

If I include Pallas Athena in Cancer, I have a grand water trine, and used to be quite emotionally self sufficient, (only confiding in a few very close friends), so can relate to that quite well.

I have seen people with fire trines, boost the energy levels of others when they are fired up with enthusiasm too.

Lots to think on here..

[adol33]

For a similar one, I have two grand trines in water, Sun-Mer/Mars/MC. I imagine that would make me emotionally self-sufficient? Well, spot on. Never married, don't see the need for it. World's overpopulated, and marriage sux apparently.

[Hudson Valley Astrologer]

Hi Saturn,

What helped me understand this concept was isolating the phrase "a closed circuit" from whatever followed. Think about the effects of a "closed circuit" in electricity or energy. The juice flows uninterrupted and persistently. In the conceptual imagery of a chart you would have three planets approximately 120 degrees apart. This is the trine aspect of course and suggests that each planet would be in the same element (although not necessarily) and in a harmonious relationship. BUT there is a problem here. Too much of a good thing might not be experienced as beneficial if the cost is too high.

Whenever there is a Grand Trine we immediately ask ourselves what that cost might be... And usually we think in terms of relationships because GT's tend to work against relationship. For the air trine say between the Sun and Moon, there is potential for bright and intelligent development but usually easily disrupted by real world inputs and disturbances. Any sense of the ideal for example that doesn't match with a bookish view can be frustrating or defeating. Throw in a third planet and you close the circuit. Closing the circuit I think enables the person to "withdraw" from pressures in life and encourages them to "go with the flow." In terms of their GT that may be a particular aptitude for knowledge and learning (Air), practical hands on skills (Earth), emotional sensitive work (water), or independent and rajasic (Fire).

Then what happens is that the switch gets stuck in the ON position. The energy bores a groove into the pliable vinyl software of our minds and "skips" over and over and over again. We use strategies that have long outlived their usefulness. Hiroki suggests that there may be a usefulness still even in adulthood. That maybe true, but I would check to see first if there is a new story to accompany a more enlightened strategy. Realigning your story with a new strategy can usher in a change of state AND we know that sometimes the change of state can lead... To a new strategy and a change in story... The problem is that the GT is persistent... It dominates...

How we manage the GT I think depends on whether or not the CORE is involved. I think there is much wisdom in Hiroki's observation if the CORE is involved and the we might want to review our story and accept those things we cannot change. But then remember the words of Wayne Dyer who said "when you change the way you look at things the things you look at change."

Hope this helps...


HVA

[Hudson Valley Astrologer]

Wish I edited that response....

In everyday terms think about the analogy above using electricity. Then think about four types of closed circuits.... Emotional, social/intellectual, practical, motivation...

Ask yourself, "wonder how this defense mechanism formed?" Looked to the significators of the parents for clues... How about siblings? What would drive a person's behavior away from others and inward toward self containment? How did their "closed circuit" of behaviors work against building and maintaining relationships?

Of course, the symbols won't tell you a thing but their story might be revealing and revelatory.

Best,

HVA

[robynne]

Thankyou Tim,

And I just realised that with 8th house Pluto(10), that water trine makes a Kite. Now, if reincarnation is true, next time round I want a 'Do your own thing' Aries Moon or a self centred spotlight seeking Leo Moon to go with my Pisces Sun, because a lifetime of continually responding to other peoples crises, can wear you out, there are so many walking wounded !!!  Ta!

Adol: You have my sympathies. 


Robynne

[All Fire]

Thanks to everyone who posted. I've learned something from each one. Special kudos to HVA and Hiroki. Got it!

[amymaddalozzo]

My late husband had a air grand trine and I have a water grand trine. I am convinced that we were attracted to each other due to the self sufficiency aspect of our personalities. 
However, I do believe that t squares can be negative. A friend of mine has 2 t squares, one in Cardinal and one in fixed.  She also has a Jupiter sun conjunction In her 12th house.  She had great potential- is very smart and attractive but she has never lived up to it,  she may never admitted but she settled for less in terms of marriage especially but also career,
Another friend has a fixed sign t square with Venus in Taurus in the first. Pluto in the fifth and moon in Aquarius in 11th house. She would never admit it but she never really got what she wanted--a man with money.  Amy

[saturn]

Thank you all for expressing your thoughts, experiences, and various viewpoints on this subject. Each provides a perspective that I will have to focus on so I can really "get it". Thanks for taking the time to help me.

Saturn

[pdw]

Hello Saturn and All,

I’ve had the hardest time figuring out what to say about a natal Air Grand Trine – and I have one of these things in my chart. I sure am interested in thinking about how individuals operate in life and astrology, and I usually have an idea or two to pursue, but guess I may be characteristically uncomfortable or protective or AGT-shy being an astrology subject myself. But, heck, adding a little anecdote to the AGT swirl shouldn’t be that difficult, right? So here goes…

With a tight AGT – Moon-Jupiter-Neptune and Saturn in Fire Houses 1-5-9 (associated with spiriting identity) – I’ve always been impressed with words, writing, and insight. I think my AGT reflects this focus on personal mental stimulation and individualized Air momentum, a lifelong emphasis that can be:   

-naturally user-friendly and enjoyable for mental pastimes (reading, movies, scrabble for me);

-potentially productive for spiraling an idea up* to share with others (writing and astrology writing in particular for me);

-easily a distraction when an uninteresting task is at hand (guilty!).   

Self-sufficiency…self-contained…self-perpetuating (another possibility?) – There’s definitely some kind of self-ish going on…but I don’t feel like I’m hermetically sealed  . Maybe just the opposite: totally dependent on outside input – from information, a person, an idea – to spark my Air flow. That looks to me like a relationship marrying Fire and Air, so to speak – possibly reflecting the AGT in my Fire houses. Or, maybe this is an important elemental dynamic for all AGTs since Fire is always opposite Air.

To me, natal planets in Air – informing (Gemini), balancing (Libra), and progressing (Aquarius) socialization – seem all about mindfully relating to life. Turns out, astrology is a perfect medium for my kind of mindfulness and earthy Virgo Sun; it's always a fascinating challenge to edit the AGT whirlwind for practicality and helpfulness.

Perhaps one thing to watch for is a strong interest and encourage group participation-education-training with like-minded others, to get the most out of an AGT (I’ve learned a lot on my own but sure wish I had pushed myself to do more formal astrology training early on). For some popular AGTs with well-known interests you might want to check out the charts of: best-selling mystery writer Agatha Christie; composer extraordinaire George Gershwin; and comedian Groucho Marx, master of repartee.
       
Works against relationships – Hmmm, not sure how to determine this… since I’m in a happy long-term marriage and have a small social network, mostly family and a few good friends. I enjoy these in-person relationships and also spend a lot of thinking time relating in my head and here on the Forum … Nowadays, the internet (blogging, social media, etc.) seems like a made-to-order AGT outlet for working alone and relating to many.       

Defense Mechanism – Being socially aware sure can be a handy tool and convenient buffer for getting along with people.   

Whew! Yours sincerely from, 

An AGT circuit rider (who sometimes feels overwrought with thought )     

……

* I came across this idea in a non-astrological article and liked the image for an AGT in motion.

[Kathy Rose]

I think one other thing needs to be added - very simply and clearly..... the GT signature tends to manifest as behavior that isolates from others.

With air being activated - this can be intellectual isolation (I don't need any help figuring things out!).

Fire suggests isolation that is more motivational  (Don't help me - I can do it myself!!!)

Water flows toward the emotional isolation (I don't want to risk being hurt)

Earth is practical self-sufficiency - and can manifest physically (I will rely on myself)

The important thing to understand is that there is a spectrum of expression. We need to ask - to what level is this manifesting? For some, taking the entire chart into consideration - it may be very strong isolation and self reliance..... for others it may be more mild.

I think it's very, very important to NOT instantly slap a label on the person - until you've really checked out their reality.

Kathy

[amymaddalozzo]

Kathy. I think people with grand tribes really are attracted to people with a grand trine.  That certainly
Was the case with my late husband and I even though I have a water grand trine and he had an air one.  Amy

[Hudson Valley Astrologer]

Kathy,

Started Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow... "Valid intuitions develop when experts have learned to recognize familiar  elements in a situation and to act in a manner that is appropriate to it..." p12 Really love how you framed the AGT in your comment and to caution the astrologer to be aware of the "spectrum." The more I read your analysis the more I appreciate our need as astrologer/people to blend Thinking Fast and Slow together...

Thanks for adding clarity and punchy bullets... tucking this one away... 

All the best,

HVA