Author Topic: Declination(s) Interpretations  (Read 578 times)

Offline Stacy

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Declination(s) Interpretations
« on: March 22, 2017, 09:09:01 PM »
Many years ago I owned a handy little pamphlet delineating Parallels and Contraparallels. Recent forum discussion has sparked my renewed interest. While I was able to get many questions answered by Googling, I still have a few questions which may seem elementary.

1. Is it common to have many Parallels and Contraparallels (using 1° orb)?

2. Moon P Venus (both s. declination): is that as beneficial as if they were both in n. declination?

3. Mercury (s. decl.) and Uranus (n. decl.) is read as the Opposition in traditional aspects? Also have Mars -21; Pluto +20. Is that astrological sentence correct, or the first?

4. Moon and Saturn (both -) would be seen as another marker of Depression, whereas (both +) would not?

I shall continue to research and hopefully answer my own questions, but appreciative of any expertise.

thanks,
Stacy
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 09:11:33 PM by Stacy »
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Offline Barbara Ybarra

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2017, 07:32:29 AM »
Hi Stacy.

Not an expert on this, but when I read "a marker for depression", I would prefer to read "a marker for possible depression and/or critical discernment of the needs for nurturing".  No big deal, I just would prefer it.  Anyway, I think either parallel or contraparallel aspect would increase the strength of the connection between the two, and I personally would not make the n. declination positive and the s. declination negative.

Your Mars-Pluto would be contraparallel, but traditional "aspects" are longitude and not the latitude...so as not to confuse the two.   It seems to me that back in the day when astrologers looked at the sky more often, declination, being visible, would have been very significant.  I suppose it was significant in the case of occultation.  I would think that if you have no longitudinal aspect between Mars-Pluto, that the contraparallel between them would otherwise reflect another suggestion in your chart about your strength of will power. So, in mho I would use the declinations, but only as an addition to the base story in the longitudinal horoscope.

I found McAfee's wordpress page very well done:

https://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/declinations/

Also, an article by Gary Canton, "An astronomical view of Venus retrograde" in this issue of Mountain Astrologer, might blow your mind like it did mine, and remind us that astrologers in the old days were always astronomers first.  Gary uses the term "vertical dimension" for the latitude flux of planets.  If we go outside at night, it is easier to see. 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 07:40:24 AM by Barbara Ybarra »

Offline Stacy

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2017, 07:54:25 AM »
Thanx, Barb:

I should have clarified that in regards to depression I actually have been dealing with it almost my entire life. I have Saturn 3 and Saturn-Sun-Mercury as part of my 3rd house stellium to support this as well as a midpoint picture whose name escapes me, at the moment. The tie-in between Mars and Pluto is simply that they both rule my Asc. (if you follow ancient rulerships).

Yes, Kannon is "The Declinations Guy" and I need to check out his web site again, when I am not running late for an appointment as usual!  At the risk of being too pushy I was hoping he, too, might respond. So it's an important point in delineating any chart----"is it natal?" (longitudinal and/or by declination.) 



"Help they brother's boat across, and, lo, thine own has reached the shore".                   Unknown

Offline Stacy

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2017, 08:00:02 AM »
p.s. Didn't want to forget your comments about the significance of occultation, and also declinations being visible 'back in the day'. Did I get that right? Am not sure I follow. Again, gotta run, but if you could clarify I would appreciate.--tnx, Stacy
"Help they brother's boat across, and, lo, thine own has reached the shore".                   Unknown

Offline Halina

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 08:30:36 AM »
Thanks for the references Barb.....  Stacy for depression an excellent book is "Signs of Mental Illness", by Mitchell Gibson, M.D.....he uses declinations, and multiple planet aspects in diagnosing such illnesses as depression, panic, obsessive compulsion, post traumatic stress, anxiety disorder, phobias, schizophrenis, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
     Here are some things he says to look for in Markers For Major Depression(there are 43 markers, but I will just list ones for parallels, declinations):
1. Parallels such as Saturn/Pluto, Sun/Mercury, Pluto/Mars, Venus/Moon, Uranus/Moon, Pluto/Moon.
2. Contraparallels such as: Jupiter/Neptune, Jupiter/Mercury, Saturn/Pluto, Jupiter/Uranus, Saturn/Mercury, Pluto/Mercury/
3. Identify the Triangle elevations( 3 planets forming a parallel or contraparallel relationship to all other planets within the triangle) :
    such as Saturn-Pluto-Mars and Mars-Moon-Uranus.
4. Identify the Hidek elevations ( planet found between 21 degrees 23 deg 30' on either side of the celestial equator.
    So look for any of these 3 planets at such elevations: Pluto, Uranus, Saturn.
5. Identify the Exdek elevations (A planet above 23*30' on either side of the celestial equator.  Look for any of Mars, Moon, Venus in this position.
6. Identify Proximity elevations ( Two planets are found within 30 minutes of declination to each other within a particular elevation.)    Examples of this are:
    Pluto/Mars parallel,  Pluto/Mercury contraparallel,  Saturn/Pluto parallel.
7. Identify Grand Elevatiions (Degrees of elevation are calculated by adding the TOTAL NUMBER OF ELEVATIONS for each planet.   A planet with ONE ELEVATION
    is said to have a First-Degree elevation.    A planet with TWO ELEVATIONS is said to have a Second-Degree elevation.
    A PLANET WITH 6 OR MORE ELEVATIONS is said to have a GRAND ELEVATION.)
8. Author then gives formulas for final calculations....but even without these formulas,  you can check your degree of Major Depression....the more of the above you have, the more your inclination to major depression.   The GPI index is found by adding all the longitudinal and declinational elevations in your chart (solar fire does declinations, parallesl, contraparallels)
7.  Here are the GPI scores of his example people for Major Depression:
      Matilda, her GPI was 24(she had 24 markers for this disease);  Denise had a GPI of 41;  David had a GPI of 28;  Cynthia had a GPI of 24;  Betty's GPI 29.
8.  High risk TRANSITS for MAJOR DEPRESSION WHICH GIVE INTENSIFICATION OF SYMPTOMS ARE:
     Saturn/Pluto parallel;    Pluto/Mars parallel;   Jupiter/Neptune contraparallel;   Exdek Mars;   Saturn/Neptune square;   Saturn/Uranus square.
     
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 08:33:52 AM by Halina »

Offline Halina

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2017, 08:46:43 AM »
Hi Stacy,  just noticed your last question about eclipses....here's what the author says about that:
    "Identify all planetary eclipses, which occur when 2 planets are are parallel and in conjunction to each other.  Planetary eclipses are not assigned separative positive or negative values and are interpreted on an individual basis.
    A Binary Eclipse occurs when 3 planets are parallel and in conjunction to each other at the same time.
    A Plenary Eclipse occurs when 4 or more planets are parallel and in conjunction to each other at the same time.
    Add the number of these you have to your grand total.   Sun-Merc are commonly eclipsed.   Of the egs, Henry had a Sun-Merc eclipse; Cynthis had a Sun-Merc eclipse; Betty had a Sun-Merc eclipse.

Offline Stacy

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2017, 10:44:05 AM »
A brief response now, Halina, until later this evening. re: book by Gibson---I used to own it. I have owned nearly every astrology book anyone here has ever read/owned when I had 2 astrological libraries (before having to liquidate them during my many relocations). So I appreciate re-creating the pertinent parts for me. Gives me much to study tonight.--thnx, Stacy


"Help they brother's boat across, and, lo, thine own has reached the shore".                   Unknown

Offline Barbara Ybarra

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2017, 03:51:07 PM »
Hi Stacy. 
Regarding the "being visible" back in the day, well, it still is visible, but I just meant that the early astrologers (say 5 BC, and up until the era of polished lenses), went outside to look at the planets to verify their locations,(with aid of some calculations and star maps), and they couldn't help but see how much north-south distance one planet was from another if in the same longitude. In fact, they measured the distance. Of course, we cannot see everything in the sky at once.  That was really true when my son was born on Oct 8, 1964, and the Moon was all by itself in the night sky, while all other planets and the Sun were below the horizon.  But occultation is exciting to see, and to be tracked over time.  Lots of people who use astrology never think about declination or what it is, and cannot picture it when described, but they would understand it easily if they went outside and looked.   

Offline Stacy

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2017, 05:48:02 PM »
Sounds like a dream, painting a beautiful sky picture from another place and time, Barb (like when your son was born).  Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some phenomenal event that made celestial bodies disappear --lol!

About 20 years ago I went to my mom and her bf's rural house for the weekend, out in Riverside county, which is now crazy big-populated-gangs, etc. I marveled over the stars visible from their street before street lights were installed in their new neighborhood.  I imagine it's the same when people go out to the desert especially, here in So. Calif.  Haven't been camping in ages. But we still have local Mt. Palomar Observatory here in San Diego county. Back in Colorado, of course, it was different. Didn't have to go far at all to be out in the boonies, and being so high in elevation it was like one of those John Denver songs, could almost touch the sky, or something. Marrying astronomy with astrology wouldn't be a bad idea for all of us at some time, though it never obsessed me as astrology has.

Wouldn't that be something, to see a picture of the sky when we were born....?

thanks,
Stacy
"Help they brother's boat across, and, lo, thine own has reached the shore".                   Unknown

Offline Stacy

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2017, 05:57:00 PM »
Meant to thank you for the link, as well (to Kannon's site). Synastry, especially, is made clearer with declinations in mind. And wowee - take a look at DT's declinations!!  Is this what's really behind his truly "unique" thinking? Not the word I would use, but trying to be tactful. Clearly, it has meaning and given that strong example and Dean Bensic's successful Oscar predictions (with the help of declinations), we should all see how under-utilized they are.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 06:11:14 PM by Stacy »
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Offline Kannon McAfee

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2017, 12:04:19 PM »
Many years ago I owned a handy little pamphlet delineating Parallels and Contraparallels. Recent forum discussion has sparked my renewed interest. While I was able to get many questions answered by Googling, I still have a few questions which may seem elementary.

1. Is it common to have many Parallels and Contraparallels (using 1° orb)?

Yes, at least in some charts.

Quote
2. Moon P Venus (both s. declination): is that as beneficial as if they were both in n. declination?

Absolutely. John Willner said that planets in south declination were anchored/focused in the private life, and those in north declination in the public life, but I have not been able to confirm that specifically, but trust that he had at least some confirmation for that. However, I will point out that this is a generalization somewhat similar to stating that the zodiac from Aries through Virgo (inclusive) is the zodiacal path of northern declination, Libra through Pisces, the zodiacal path of southern declination. So the division of north/south declination in this public/private delineation is not personalized, but very generalized.

Quote
3. Mercury (s. decl.) and Uranus (n. decl.) is read as the Opposition in traditional aspects?

Yes, those are an opposition of declination called a contra-parallel.

Quote
Also have Mars -21; Pluto +20. Is that astrological sentence correct, or the first?

Not sure what you mean by this question. Mars and Pluto in those positions are probably in range of contra-parallel aspect.

Quote
4. Moon and Saturn (both -) would be seen as another marker of Depression, whereas (both +) would not?

No. "Depression" here is over-specifying as to the meaning of those two planets in hard aspect. IF Saturn is parallel Moon, as in the conjunction, the person is generally private about their feelings, personal life, at least somewhat self-inhibited, and takes their feelings seriously.

I have never interpreted a planet's position north or south of the celestial equator as indicating a "marker of depression." The wide range of clients, charts, and personalities with various planets spread across both sides of the celestial equator has not led me to any such characterization.

Offline Stacy

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2017, 03:05:16 PM »
Thanks for taking some time and clearing up a few things, Kannon.  (As well as helping me with some interpretation.)

There are a lot of assumptions which transfer from "traditional" astrology---which I think declinations are, correct? Just under-utilized, except for by the Magi Society. I believe that has something to do with the graphics or "visual presentation", if you will. You actually comment on this on your web site (why declinations aren't used as much now days) and it seems plausible to me.

Btw, I do have Mars-Pluto CP.  Interesting to me that that I have Saturn - Moon P which echoes Saturn ruling and in my 3rd house, and Saturn Oriental.  Each reinforces the other. Until my Moon in Sagittarius comes along, and with Mercury cj Jupiter prompts my big mouth to come out and play ;)

Stacy
"Help they brother's boat across, and, lo, thine own has reached the shore".                   Unknown

Offline Kannon McAfee

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2017, 07:21:09 PM »
Thanks for taking some time and clearing up a few things, Kannon.  (As well as helping me with some interpretation.)

There are a lot of assumptions which transfer from "traditional" astrology---which I think declinations are, correct? Just under-utilized, except for by the Magi Society. I believe that has something to do with the graphics or "visual presentation", if you will. You actually comment on this on your web site (why declinations aren't used as much now days) and it seems plausible to me.

Yes, declinations were used by some schools of traditional or Arabic astrology. What was used in many schools of traditional astrology was an estimation equivalency system from classical time with the terms antiscia and contra-antiscia, which too easily confuses declinations with equivalencies to zodiacal location. I prefer to consult the actual declination position of any body every time, just as I would for latitude and longitude coordinates of birth.

Offline Stacy

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Re: Declination(s) Interpretations
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2017, 09:23:58 AM »
Yes, have heard the terms, of course (anitscia and contra-antiscia) though not very familiar with their meaning as they seem to belong with the more esoteric practices. I prefer actual versus estimated locations, as well.

thanks, Kannon. Looking forward to your celebrity profiles as mentioned on your site!

Stacy
"Help they brother's boat across, and, lo, thine own has reached the shore".                   Unknown