Author Topic: Female Serial Killers...  (Read 979 times)

Offline James Williams

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Female Serial Killers...
« on: October 06, 2017, 03:30:31 PM »
The other day I saw an article on female serial killers, and thought it was very interesting.  So then I went to the astrodatabank website and have selected a handful of female serial killers to see if we can find some common denominators...

First up, Kristen Gilbert.  What stands out for you in her chart?!  Halina, if you have the time to add some key asteroids, that could be very instructive.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gilbert,_Kristen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristen_Gilbert



"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline In Stitches

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2017, 06:21:23 PM »
I could imagine myself telling her to become a nurse if I were doing a reading for her. Chart ruler Mercury and Sun-Neptune in H6.  :-X


Offline Barbara Ybarra

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2017, 07:26:45 AM »
Hello.  Here is her chart below (sorry once again for leaving Ceres in the chart, it might be there permanently). She was born in the same town as Lizzie Borden, who was not a serial killer and only hacked to death her own parents.  Both Kristen and Lizzie have and had Mars in Capricorn, Lizzie's opposite her Sun, Kristen's square to her Moon.

What stands out for me, in order of notice for Kristen, is the stellium in the 6th house, followed by the shock in the 5th, and then of course the echo from the Saturn rx across the way...and lastly, but not least, the Moon squared by Mars at the end of the 8th house.  Of course it is easy in hindsight to see the dangers, and in fact we cannot dismiss the knowledge once we know what she did, but I would have seen immediately the strain which she was under since her birth.  It does not excuse her, of course, but her young years must have been horrendous within her home.

Of particular interest to me is the Saturn opposite the Venus, which normally plays out painfully in the early home.  With that configuration the child simply does not feel included in the family nor unconditionally loved, and this is in spite of the fact that the child may have been told they are loved, or held or coddled or whatever as a plaything (I know what I'm talking about), but something is terribly "off" for these people with regards to relationship at a young age.  And this all happens in the 5th house of play (or sexuality) for her, with Uranus and Pluto there to suggest that extreme means must be employed at all cost.  I could go on and on, but, short story, something in the belief system ran wild (Saturn ruling the 9th).  Mercury (in Scorpio no less) is only aspected with Jupiter in the chart, and they each form squares to the angles.  She used and depended on her cunning to "get even". 

So sad.  Or we could get Halloween crazy about these things, which is fun, too, but this poor woman is still alive and I hope she has found some peace with herself. 

Offline Barbara Ybarra

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 07:30:22 AM »
P.S.  I suppose we will get to Common Denominators later.  I am wondering if you already see some CDs, James.

Offline James Williams

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2017, 07:40:53 AM »
Thank you In Stitches and Barbara!  :)

Barbara, yes, there are some common denominators, which we'll see as we progress.  Am looking to view this the way that Noel has taught us, and then adding some things via their Jyotisha charts, which both corroborate and add to Noel's methodology...

Here's an article on her which sheds more light on some of her motives...

http://cache.boston.com/globe/metro/packages/nurse/part1.htm

Those who are familiar with Noel's methodology, please feel free to weigh in here with some pointers!

 :)
"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline James Williams

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2017, 07:52:31 AM »
"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline Halina

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2017, 08:32:09 AM »
       Here's her natal chart with common denominators for serial killers.

Offline James Williams

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2017, 06:29:27 PM »
Thank you Halina.
"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline Hudson Valley Astrologer

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 05:03:09 AM »
JW and all,

This concept is always perplexing to me, I mean aside from the astrology, what could possibly possess someone to murder? And why would one go on a rampage only to then take their own life? Innocents die and their survivors and loved ones grieve in remorse and bewilderment with no answers. It is a conspiracy of circumstance.

My brother was in Vegas at the concert where many innocents were murdered and wounded right before his eyes. It was chaotic and all he could think about was getting his wife and two daughters to safety. We had a very emotional conversation afterward. It was difficult to discuss. If they had been standing 5 yards closer to the stage they might have met a different fate. They did escaped however without a scratch, but at one point as they were running to safety my sister-in-law fell and my brother thought she was shot. His heart stopped! As survivors they will have to live with what they witnessed and wrestle to answer the question why "not me" in a sort of survivors guilt because their eyes will never be able to "unsee" the mayhem.

The sociopath's condition is decidedly fixed and inflexible. I think their empathetic capacity is broken or distorted and so the modality with which they construe themselves becomes twisted. Something doesn't fit and so they do not fit the culturally construed construct that shapes and forms others within society. Saints might express many of the same symptoms albeit in the polar opposite extreme.

Gilbert's sense of self is likely internally intense and "fixed" with Mercury in Scorpio. Mercury is in contact with the Ascendant (ruling the Ascendant), Jupiter and Mars. Jupiter, ruler of the 8th, is square the Ascendant disposed by Mercury. So the 2nd and 8th houses are caught up in a reciprocating flow that challenges Gilbert's sense of self-efficacy that she fights it every step of the way.

She needs to think of herself as significant and right. At the "level" of the sociopath we know that this meant she became adept and artful at deception and lying. So adept that she was consumed by self-deception too I would add. We see an echo of this suggestion with Neptune ruling the 11th conjunct the Sun.

But her need to be recognized and respected by others perhaps thwarted at every turn, where the Moon squared by Mars from 8 and Saturn retrograde in range, both occupy the 11th. The Moon rules the third and suggests an ardent, forceful and convincing expression. She learned early that she was good at intimidating and manipulating others. She was desperate for "attention" (love) but even that contrual may have been lost in a cloud of negativity. She may never have felt loved or may never have known the rewards of intimacy without violence. Her need to be respected was overwhelmed by her disrespect for others, possible brought on by never having earned that respect herself.

When the air is so thick with negative influences messages have a hard time getting through. Gilbert in my estimation had a grandiose need to be seen by others as important. And as we now know she would go to any length in order to be "seen" as the "heroine." Its difficult to sense the level of suffering in the soul of a murderer, when they are the cause for innocent people dying around them. We don't see the victimization in the perpetrator as easily as we see it in the fallen. Nor do we attribute their pain and anguish to their desperation to fill a need within themselves. It's simply not good enough to say she was never loved and therefor murdered. So, we say instead she was possessed by evil.

And so, there is a conspiracy of circumstance that we cannot explain but to say it was so. And ascribe meaning to the situation that motivates us to change protocols and to do things differently so that we can at least save innocent lives in the future. And so our concern for each other evolves in ways that aim to prevent such tragedies, but the evil evolves as well.

All the best,

HVA

Offline James Williams

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 06:55:01 AM »
Thank you Tim.  You've given us much to consider here, as usual!  Am glad to hear your brother and his family are still alive.  Very scary situation there...

Here's a list of Gilbert's midpoints, which I'll return to later on in this thread.  Want to get them down on paper here while I still have them in front of me...

AP = Saturn/Pluto, Jupiter/Node, Venus/Uranus, Venus/Pluto, Sun/MC, Neptune/MC
MC = Sun/Node, Neptune/Node, Moon/ASC, Mars/Jupiter
ASC = Jupiter, Uranus/MC
Moon = Mars, Saturn/Node, Venus/Node, Mercury/Uranus
Sun = Mars/Pluto, Jupiter/MC, Mars/Uranus
Sun/Moon = Mercury, Saturn/ASC
Mars = Uranus, Venus/Node, Moon, Saturn/Node
Saturn = ASC/MC, Moon/Uranus
Uranus = Venus/Pluto, Saturn/Pluto, Sun/MC
Neptune = Venus/Mars
Pluto = Mercury/MC, Mars/ASC
Node = Pluto/ASC, Mars/MC, Uranus/Neptune

Feel free to comment on any of these that catch your eye.  The ones in bold involve the angles.  These are the ones that help to make her chart different than many others who were born on that day, with that same Gemini Ascendant, and with the planets in the same houses...

"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline Hudson Valley Astrologer

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2017, 03:17:26 AM »
MC = Sun/Node, Neptune/Node, Moon/ASC, Mars/Jupiter
ASC = Jupiter, Uranus/MC
Sun = Mars/Pluto, Jupiter/MC, Mars/Uranus
Sun/Moon = Mercury, Saturn/ASC
Mars = Uranus, Venus/Node, Moon, Saturn/Node

Wow those are a lot of midpoints... I like the idea of connecting the MPs to the angles AND the way you've written up the diagram by connecting the picture to natal aspects borrowing from the styling of writing a SA equation. Cool  8)

Parsing the list a bit to focus on "self-construal" and the influence of "other's-construal" on development (rulership of the self worth second house and of the shared worth eight house) I see that the MC is still prominent as is the MC ruler, Asc and Saturn.

I'm not sure that the picture in this case is quite complete without AP=Saturn/Pluto, or Saturn=Asc/MC, the latter jumped out at me prior to reading your post.

The first collage connected to the MC is of interest because Gilbert pulls her life together enough to become a nurse in the first place. She develops associations and must have experienced excitement about he own advance, but that MC=Moon/Asc picture you've highlighted comes into a little more focus.

That second bullet (in my short list) is an ominous message. Asc=Uranus/MC where Noel writes "Change that has far reaching significance" (and Gilbert's age 10 Neptune=Asc, or Pluto=Nodes in 2001 the year of her conviction)...

The Sun=Mars/Pluto picture is just downright eerie describing "passionate attack to achieve an objective" along with the Sun=Mars/Uranus which oddly suggest both confidence AND vulnerability. How does it all jive with a person who wants and needs the lime light suggested by that third picture of the Sun with Jupiter and the MC. She did receive recognition making the cover of VA Practitioner magazine in 1990. She was 23... SA Mars=MC & SA Pluto=Moon

Connecting the Sun/Moon midpoint with Saturn/Asc by way of Mercury suggests the relevance of how she thinks about how others think of her, and perhaps at the root of her "troubled mind".

And finally the last line from the above quote brings in an aspect of the sex drive that gets out of whack. I'd expect to see this configuration mostly in male serial killers.

All in all this Midpoint direction is instructive James. There is no mention of it on Wikipedia but I wonder if Gilbert participated in sports. This would be an incredibly important and useful outlet. Without it the lid was kept on the boiling pot to tightly and the rest is history.

Geese! What a creepy exercise my man, and it's not even Halloween.

Peace,

HVA 

Offline James Williams

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2017, 04:55:29 AM »
Thank you Tim.  Let's continue on with your insightful comments on the midpoints with some of Noel's own comments regarding a few of these midpoint pics...From his book entitled, Solar Arcs...and a couple of which you've already mentioned...

MC = Moon/ASC..."revival of concerns from the early home life."

ASC = Uranus/MC..."Sudden adjustments to much of the life; change that has far-reaching significance..."

Sun = Mars/Uranus..."Making something happen, sudden new circumstances...feeling invulnerable."

Sun = Mars/Pluto..."passionate attack to achieve an objective..."

Moon = Mercury/Uranus..."Emotional excitability; quick mood changes..."

Mercury = Sun/Moon..."Thoughts about male-female principles, including marriage...plans for fulfillment."

Mars = Venus/Node..."Making sexy contact with someone..."

Mars = Saturn/Node..."Difficult surrounding situations; looking for personal freedom; confused motivation."

Saturn = Moon/Uranus..."Striving for independence in order to solve things...changes in emotional expression."

Uranus = Sun/MC..."Sudden changes; shifts of position."

Uranus = Saturn/Pluto..."Brutal efforts to start a new order; an attack, regardless of potential losses."

Pluto = Mars/ASC..."Premature action; intensity; 'bitchiness'; easily provoked to anger."

OK, here's an even dozen, which says much, no?!

 ;)
"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline James Williams

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2017, 05:03:40 AM »
All of this before taking a look at the following...

Hemisphere Emphasis
Sun-Moon Overlay
Key House Considerations
Saturn Retrograde
Other Parental and Early Home Life Significators
Mutual Reception
Idealization

and more...
"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline Halina

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2017, 09:17:23 AM »
     The Harmonic chart used to identify serial killers is the 18th Harmonic chart.    See Kristen Gilbert's 18H below which shows her sadistic potential.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 09:28:41 AM by Halina »

Offline James Williams

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Re: Female Serial Killers...
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2017, 06:00:16 AM »
OK, continuing with Noel's methodology, the hemisphere emphasis is decidedly oriented to the west and north.  So the giving of one's self to others, combined with unfinished business in regards to the early home life.

No longer have SCA, so maybe someone who does could present us here with what Noel wrote regarding Sun in Scorpio and Moon in Aries.  Whatever he wrote, he had to mention something with a Mars flavor, lol.  With the reigning need of the horoscope in Aries, she would not want to emotionally feel fenced in, restricted, confined in any way, shape, or form.  The urge to be numero uno would be strong, as well as feeling independent and strong and capable.  Scorpio of course would have presented both power struggle and control issues.

Key house considerations.  The Moon is pushing into the 12th House, so issues surrounding self-undoing would likely appear.  Also what Noel wrote in his Vocations book..."The suggestion here is that the person needs to work behind-the-scenes: a director, a consultant, a silent partner.  Often, one shows interest in the occult or in hidden maneuvers in a very large institution, in the establishment, or in one's own special world that somehow must be respected by others.  Being unseen but importantly persuasive."  WOW.  BINGO.

Saturn retrograde in regards to her perceived relationship with her father ties in with the unfinished business from the early home life, corroborated by the rulers of the parental axis both being under strong developmental tension.

There's a mutual reception between Mercury and Pluto.  Interesting...Noel wrote, "The ability to persuade; communicating new perspectives" for Mercury = Pluto, and "The ability to persuade; demanding new perspectives" for Pluto = Mercury.

Idealization.  Idealization is very strong and salient in this horoscope as Neptune is closely conjunct the Sun.  Unrealistic expectations surrounding joint cooperation issues (6th House) and issues of lovability (11th House ruler) would likely predominate.

Thus, tying all this in with the aforementioned midpoint pics would present us with a fairly good understanding of some of her most pressing psychological determinants.

Her Jyotisha charts add a few more important brush strokes that cannot be seen with Western astrological eyes, so I'll briefly mention them next...





"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).