Author Topic: Bird Brains  (Read 2304 times)

Offline Hudson Valley Astrologer

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2018, 04:20:38 AM »
James,

The idea of extending the astrological session into a multi-session therapeutic intervention I will leave to you. You are more qualified I think by training, experience and education to engage with clients in that manner. I think I would rather make the referral.

I am aware of a number of psychotherapists who are graduates of the Tyl Masters Course who do indeed integrate astrology into their practice. Noel himself I think has veered toward "Brief Therapy" and proves to be remarkably efficient in managing the astrology session. BUT he is also careful to reiterate that occasionally the troubles are just too problematic to handle without the requisite psychology credentials.

It would be cool if you could keep us updated. Best of luck with that intention and my hats off to you. I really don't consider that professional poise to be an easy path although I've fancied myself from time to time to have those capabilities.

Best,

Tim   

Offline James Williams

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2018, 05:23:18 AM »
Tim, you're right, it would be difficult to do without professional training.  Most of my clients are "repeat offenders", lol, i.e., they keep coming back to me for updates.  And most have become good friends as well, so I know more about them than I do upon meeting a new client for the first time.

It would be extremely difficult for a consulting astrologer with no to very little counseling training to remain as non-directive as Rogers.  So Noel's model of single-session therapy ala Moshe Talmon would fit most--over 90-per-cent--of the astrologers out there.  And less harm to the client will be done as well, by confining astrologers without counseling training to a single session...

"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline James Williams

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2018, 05:40:34 AM »
What say ye...did Rogers have natal Moon in Sagittarius or Capricorn?!

 ;D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Rogers
"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline Antonio

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2018, 01:06:28 AM »
Most of my clients are "repeat offenders", lol, i.e., they keep coming back to me for updates.

4 Clues That You Are Probably Not Charging Enough For What You Do
https://www.inc.com/andrew-griffiths/4-clues-that-you-might-be-charging-enough-for-what-you-do.html


Offline James Williams

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2018, 05:01:08 AM »
Very true Antonio, very true.  Actually, I've just about arrived at the place that K.N. Rao spoke about when he said many times that he would have discontinued giving readings if not due to the urgings of his mantra guru and jyotisha guru.  Astrology has been a large part of my sadhana these past 30 years, but I've already begun to spend more time on other parts of my sadhana, such as meditation, and study of Sanskrit.  And I know that more time will be allocated for meditation with each passing month from here on out...

"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline Antonio

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2018, 10:04:15 AM »
And I know that more time will be allocated for meditation with each passing month from here on out...

It sounds like a master plan, James...

...but thee knoweth what thy eagle sings on tyl's nest:

"You can check out any time you like,
but you can never leave!"
:D
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 02:50:51 PM by Antonio »

Offline Robynne

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2018, 11:09:08 AM »
Quote
And I know that more time will be allocated for meditation with each passing month from here on out...

Now... did you mean meditation or mediation there Jim? Because if its a spelling mistake, the misinterpretation could cost you dearly.  ;)

Hope your open home went well...
~Only with the heart can you see rightly, what is invisible to the naked eye~

Offline Hudson Valley Astrologer

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2018, 02:31:11 AM »
"A primrose by the river's brim A Yellow Rose was to him. And it was nothing more."

William Wordsworth

There is a view that our needs and proclivities of habit are so deeply ingrained in us, or "hard programmed," that change and choosing to change, behaving according to some new found volition is nearly impossible without some sort of violent intercept. This concept rings true in analysis where we often do not witness change with clients unless an angle is involved or the ruler of an angle. AND this is one of the difficulties with psycho-therapeutic interventions.

The astrologer who "sees" a Sagittarius Moon will of necessity see from a context that supports that supposition and the same is true for the astrologer who "sees" a Capricorn Moon. The "primrose" like the Moon exhibits certain "characteristics which are symmetrical but also imperfectly symmetrical, within a complex interweaving of patterning" that takes shape "in a mentally governed piece of morphogenesis."*

My own proclivity is to see a Capricorn Moon. A stolid anchoring personality "who administrates progress" within his patients and with superhuman patience a nearly super-mental capacity to allow "the other" to emerge. He's not doing much himself, as James states; he appears indirect (mutable), but without judgement. Still, somehow Roger's opinion is checked at the door.

The birds are finally rousing up the neighborhood after what today we will say "boy that was a long winter nap." The dogs are barking in unison and very loudly but much too early for the queen of the house. Its annoying. What are they barking at? Ahhhh! They aren't nutty after all. They were barking in sync with the shrill and clamor of the birds as a bright red fox ran through the back yard. The birds rang the alarm, a full out call for all hands on deck, the call came from above in the treeline and at that window wall of the "great room." Canine and crow together. That little fox was running like she just stole candy from the 5 and 10. And just as suddenly, right as the commotion reached a pique, it became quiet again, as if it were "nothing." A morning meditation. But it was something. It was something! It was something to behold. That Moon, wherever it was.


HVA     





*Charlton, Noel G.. Understanding Gregory Bateson : Mind, Beauty, and the Sacred Earth, State University of New York Press, 2008

Offline Hudson Valley Astrologer

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2018, 02:56:23 AM »
Dearest Forum,

This is long. They are my concluding remarks as I embark on a journey to visit my ancestors. Most of my DNA comes from a land of poets and bards who fell hard and in love with language. To them there is never such a thing as too many words. But alas without eloquence it is true. I hope to bring back some of that after kissing a certain stone, but until then please indulge me.

As life moved from Pisces into Aries the waters of spirit kindled into flame where thoughts and ideas took shape in our physical world. Moving into Taurus those thoughts and ideas found a voice and finding their voice they multiplied in Gemini. Voices begat more voices. The natural horoscope suggests this story if we consider the “beginning” to be the point where Pisces and Aries meet; the ascendant. Where thought and ideas are born, take shape and form a voice in Taurus and become the Word in Gemini.

The glyph of Aries represents the spark of the flame or Spirit and the symbol of Taurus which has an uncanny resemblance to the human larynx, represents the urge to "utter" sounds. Analogously, the voices multiplied in the process of creation. And the diversity of sound required distinctions in form and so the Word was born of necessity; part of the body's equipment for survival. Fascinatingly, most birds have double larynxes and so the language of birds is multiplied to an even higher order. Maybe the birds have something to say after all? And so it seems that the process of “communication” is to be revered more so than any single voice, more so than any single Word. And SEEING how each thing connects to the other thing in the process of creation informs us that the GOAL is to SEE the essential Truth in matters, to “Get Real” as it were and to eliminate our benightedness.

And supposing that the circle corresponds with evolution we can clearly see four quadrants marking significant progress within development. The first quadrant described above is complicated by development in the second quadrant beginning with the degree 0 Cancer. Emotions cloud our perception with vital drives and urges that compel our behavior. The next phase or stage in development emphasizes the mental shift marked by the degree beginning at 0 Libra. The movement rises above so to speak piercing the veils of consciousness. What we unanimously consider logical or academic emerges from the vital self, and varying constructs reign supreme at one time or another, supreme that is until a new paradigm proves a claimed supremacy otherwise. And so it goes in astrology, as in most disciplines. The academic and scientific have reigned supreme, but it is important to realize that the advance of the mental being is overlaid on top of an emotional level, which itself is overlaid on top of a physical level, causing all sorts of distortions, deletions and generalizations to help the human instrument cope in the wild. And isn't it fascinating that "Mercury's" rulership  is absent in the "mental" quadrant, while "Venus's" rulership is absent in the emotional quadrant?  Not much has changed in how individuals vie for dominance and survival. Only a shifting of where the game is played and to some the game remains war, something we carry over from the worn out vestiges of our ancestors. It's in our DNA. The hope may be in the fourth quadrant. There both Mercury and Venus are expressed in their exaltation. What to make of that?

WITH THE HUMANISTIC GROWTH AND SOPHISTICATION THAT have enriched astrology since World War II, the sensibility about astrological prediction has shifted from abject expectation of Fate to knowledgeable exploration of strategy.”

Noel works brilliantly with these quadrants of development and makes the “connection” between the parts of self using rulership dynamics, describing the heuristics of our individual development within the environment. He continues on page 119 of The Creative Astrologer:

“We now plan to “get with it,” to improve life, not submit to it. Since we know more about things, we can traffic better and improve our position. And, of course, in our explosive society in a smaller world, all of this must be done as quickly as possible.”   


Getting with it to improve our lot in life and not to submit or resign to the vagaries of life does require a certain mindset. The sense of urgency Noel argues for is palpable. If you are standing with him in a room, just the two of you, and there is an audience on the other side of a thin wall or curtain you will feel this drive. It is like the drive a fireman feels when a woman is calling for help from the top of a burning building. Do not stand in his way. So, this urgency is not to put on a show as much as to help, teach, and yes perhaps SAVE. To make a difference. I get it now. Noel has such a beautiful sense and wondrous measure of time. And then, again, on another occasion while sitting next to a wonderful woman (an animal communicator) and now part of that audience, the both of us sitting next to Noel and listening to a student teach, there is this nuclear energy oozing and swirling around us like we were sitting too close to the reactor. The wonderful woman and I catch eyes. They are wide and on fire in amazement and we acknowledge each other without words, “yeh” (our heads nod in recognition) “I felt that too.”

Noel I think is driven to change not just astrology but the world: One client and astrology student at a time. And to his way of thinking there is much at stake. The World, like a country or region, a municipality or family represents macro versions or levels of the individual mind. The patterns reverberate. Perhaps we can only change the World by helping people at the individual level an antidote hopefully to the distortions we receive from tyrannical broadcasts selling fracture and piecemeal not wholeness. Maybe astrologers can help individuals find their own voice? Perhaps real change is impossible without healing at the individual level first. I think Noel dedicated himself to a noble and worthy cause to make that kind of difference in individuals as people; the Human Being. And I think he succeeded massively.

At the macro level the global problem was diagnosed years before, but Gregory Bateson had no answer.
   
“In an oak forest several hundred species live in balance: “not ‘nature red in tooth and claw’… [but] a complex network in which competition and mutual dependence are closely combined. It is when the balance swings toward pure competition, or even exploitation, that the system breaks down. Some species then… become either a pest or a weed…” And like human nature “there is the danger that some group (the politicians, or the workers, or the rich, or the poor, or the public relations men or the industrialists) will achieve a Malthusian expansion of power and become pests.”

We ignore or are unconscious of the greater part of our mind and so we pursue our own narrow purposes and lose the wisdom of knowing ourselves as a whole. In the same way we lose wisdom regarding the social system in which we live, as well as all wisdom regarding the natural world of which we are a part. “We create weeds and vermin in the wood… societies which become pests on the surface of the world and we… individually become at best greedy and at worst insane.”

“Social evolution has changed the ration of power between consciousness and the rest of mind. We are steadily implementing consciousness with new technology so that today our vulgar and shortsighted purposes can destroy the whole species and the oak wood and all.”


Bateson finishes with a prophetic suggestion:

“Never vote for a man who is neither a poet nor an artist nor a birdwatcher.”

We might add “Astrologer.”   

All the best,

Always,

HVA
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 03:07:57 AM by Hudson Valley Astrologer »

Offline James Williams

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2018, 05:00:22 AM »
Dearest Forum,

This is long. They are my concluding remarks as I embark on a journey to visit my ancestors.    

All the best,

Always,

HVA

Tim, I'm a bit confused as I ponder what you're saying here...are you able to elaborate?
"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline Robynne

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2018, 10:55:35 PM »
Thankyou Tim,


That was inspiring, and thought provoking. It leaves me pondering Neptune and Saturn in developmental tension.

Poetic soul meets Brick wall. SPLAT!


They dammed up the river and there was not enough time or advance notice to veer, avoid, move around, or simply move on. And yet the nature of water is to ~flow~.


So.. is it true that 'time is money', or that in the case of real healing (which most can't afford), time can truly be our friend?

 :)

... and... how come its always the Neptunians that volunteer to clean up the mess after all the others have chucked their toys out of the cot?  ;D

« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 12:10:28 AM by Robynne »
~Only with the heart can you see rightly, what is invisible to the naked eye~

Offline Hudson Valley Astrologer

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2018, 03:05:19 AM »
Saint Francis and the Birds


When saint Francis preached love to the birds,
They listened, fluttered, throttled up
Into the blue like a flock of words

Released for fun from his holy lips.
Then wheeled back, whirred about his head,
Pirouetted on brothers' capes,

Danced on the wind for sheer joy played
And sang, like images took flight.
Which was the best poem Francis made,

His argument true, his tone light

Seamus Heaney
Death of a Naturalist

When I walked into the famous Charlie Byrnes bookshop in Galway, the poets were on the first shelf to the right as I entered the door. Granted it was the back door as poets are still not so vaulted in our society as they were in the time of Cú Chulainn, when bards were considered the high priests of the tribes. The volumes I wanted were not in stock. Can you believe it? Ireland's greatest poet since Yeats and only one of his books in stock, the last one in fact. But it was his first book he ever published AND when I opened the small tiny pamphlet to page 40 on a whim of curiosity his poem Saint Francis and the Birds flew off its perch. I was looking for Seeing Things and Spirit Level, two works of high acclaim. The Universe had other ideas I guess. Prior to this experience I had read a Heaney poem in the writer's museum in Dublin. It was called "Birdwatcher" and I thought "ahhh interesting, I think I will share this poem with the forum." But something caused me to hesitate. The poem wasn't exactly the right tone for this thread. Heaney once said that the great poets wait for the words to come to them, they don't chase them. Three days later in Charlie Byrne's store when Seamus introduced me to Saint Francis I considered it a small miracle and cried as the words "whirred about my head". 

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/news/watch-liam-neeson-narrates-film-celebrating-seamus-heaney-36909615.html

All the best,

HVA

Offline Robynne

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2018, 02:38:41 PM »
Beautiful! Now as I am currently up to my Irish gt grandmother in my genealogy research, this would be a brilliant opportunity to offer up one of my favourite songs. And if anyone knows more about the Kelly's from County Cork in the Emerald Isle, that info would be much appreciated, as am at a bit of an impasse here. Ta!


 ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRdDnpkR3AQ

Enjoy!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 03:21:00 PM by Robynne »
~Only with the heart can you see rightly, what is invisible to the naked eye~

Offline Hudson Valley Astrologer

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2018, 03:16:38 AM »
Thanks Robynne...

Mary Black has an extraordinary voice... angelically haunting, like the wind's embrace of the cliffs off Dingel and the water's rhythmic beat against the coast.

Was put in a spell there for a moment.

HVA

Offline Robynne

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Re: Bird Brains
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2018, 06:42:11 PM »
Glad you enjoyed Tim,

Mary Black is one of my favourites, and only the Irish can lament in such a beautifully fluid, finely tuned and wistful style, and with such finesse that it can sometimes reel you in for a spell. True!
~Only with the heart can you see rightly, what is invisible to the naked eye~