Fired!

[Pamela Young]

Thank you so much, Bob; I really appreciate your concern.  I have to say, I can't help being worried, much good it does me.  Well, only a few days to go and I'll find out what's what. 

Thanks again!
Pam

[saturn]

First of all, I'm sorry your niece has to go through this. It is a horrible experience, regardless of anything else. It hurts like heck and it takes time to get over the shock.

But if she were my daughter, let's say, I would think that natal Saturn - natal Mars played its hand in this. Your niece has natal Mars opposite natal Saturn, so there may be a tendency in her to have a very strong and harsh personality at times, maybe even domineering, aggressive, or even bossy.

When no reason is given as to firing, as related to work performance, I think it usually comes down to personality. It could be that somehow or another she rubbed someone the wrong way - and that someone decided they did not want to work with her over the long haul. So her work performance was as you described, but there was personality conflict. Now, who is going to come out and admit that? That rarely happens, in my experience. I bet your niece might not even see how she could come across to others as I described her tendency.

So, what else? Her natal Mars and natal Jupiter share the same sign (planets within 6.5 degrees of the beginning or end of any sign are considered to be in both signs - here, that sign is Virgo). Transiting Mars and transiting Jupiter are square - and because they share the same sign, these planets are activated - and negative. It is transit Mars in Aquarius and natal Saturn in Aquarius-Pisces that made these two planets active. And next you see that transit Saturn is square her natal Jupiter.

So Mars-Saturn is active and so is Mars-Jupiter - and the Saturn-Jupiter is activated because of the prior 2 activations which link them. Is it possible that your niece, under these negative influences, allowed the negative tendencies of her natal Mars-Saturn to come out and perhaps found fault with the other's past work and maybe pointed it out or changed something to make your niece look better than her colleague, thus perhaps ticking someone off?

In addition to the above, transit Sun was square to natal Jupiter and opposite transit Saturn, adding more negative energy to the situation. The Sun represents those in authority. I wonder who in authority she might have inadvertently rubbed the wrong way? Also, transit Moon was square natal Saturn and transit Moon and transit Saturn share the same sign (Sagittarius), thus these planets are also activated.

Jupiter “negative” Saturn governs faulty thinking and/or troubled judgment and just bad timing all the way around because of gloom, sadness, or loss of confidence; a real downer.

There is no doubt she worked hard (natal Sun trine natal Saturn). But sometimes that just isn't enough when you rub someone the wrong way or make an error in judgment.

I wish her all the best of luck in the future.

[Pamela Young]

Hi saturn,

Thank you for your thoughts on my niece's situation; I appreciate the time and effort you put into looking at her chart, and thinking about what happened.  Having said that, I have to say I pretty much disagree with everything you said.  Maybe I'm biased, but I honestly don't recognize my niece in the description you gave of her (' ... a very strong and harsh personality at times, maybe even domineering, aggressive, or even bossy.')  Her younger brother might say she can be domineering and bossy, but that would be the extent of it.  Of course it's possible that she rubbed someone the wrong way, for whatever reason, but I really don't think the description you gave of her applies.  She's the opposite, if anything. 

I come from the Liz Greene school of psychological astrology (I don't mean I was actually one of her students, just that I learned astrology in large part from reading her books) so the furthest I could go to agree with you would be to say that it may be possible that she's been projecting the attributes you mentioned out into the ether, and they landed back on her, if that makes sense.  Maybe someone felt threatened by her; she's smart, talented, hard-working, and pretty to boot.  She's a sweet girl who gets along with pretty well everyone; she works at it.  I'm not saying she loves everyone, but she certainly wouldn't do what you suggested: finding fault with someone else's work, etc.  She was in an entry level position and was just learning a brand new job, and she knew it.   She knew she was on probation; she would never have behaved in the way you suggested.  It wouldn't be like her at any time, and certainly not while on probation for her first job, which she had worked very long and hard to get.

I also don't agree with some of your astrology.  You think her Mars and Jupiter share the same sign, when her Mars is at 27 Leo and her Jupiter at 5 Libra?!  It's news to me that 'planets within 6.5 degrees of the beginning or end of any sign are considered to be in both signs'; says who?!  I don't buy it. 

I know she may well have rubbed someone the wrong way for some reason, but if so I think you're very wrong about the reasons for it.  Thank you again for your thoughts on the situation.

[saturn]

When we don't know all the facts, all we can do is speculate. As I said, if she were my daughter those are some of the thoughts that would have gone through my head. I didn't mean to imply your niece is any particular way. I was just analyzing the astrology and the possible tendencies that it imparts. And it is perfectly true that maybe she did nothing wrong, yet was sabotaged in some way. But a good detective looks at all the angles and their possibilities. And there is still the possibility that bad judgment was exercised somewhere along the way. Nobody's perfect.

>> I also don't agree with some of your astrology.  You think her Mars and Jupiter share the same sign, when her Mars is at 27 Leo and her Jupiter at 5 Libra?!  It's news to me that 'planets within 6.5 degrees of the beginning or end of any sign are considered to be in both signs'; says who?! I don't buy it.

Yes, I know most people don't understand what I said, but then again, 85% of astrologers predicted the last election incorrectly, so maybe some new thoughts are in order. I know astrologers have a stubborn streak - I do, too. But I've seen this technique work in a lot more ways than the usual approach to astrology. When astrologers can open their minds, perhaps they will become better at prediction or at least in understanding the who, what, where, and/or why of events. But I'm not going to hold my breath on that.

No matter about anything. I hope your niece has a nice vacation and comes back ready to keep trying. "There is no failure except ceasing to try."

[Pamela Young]

Well, I notice that my niece has transiting Mercury conjunct her MC exact today, and it will be in her 10th house until mid September, so she'll be thinking hard about her career situation for some time.  Here's hoping it all works out well for her in the end.

[Barbara Ybarra]

Hi Pam.  At this point you are probably done with this thread, but I just wanted to point out two things.  One is that your niece's solar arc Sun is presently opposite to her Uranus, suggesting that she might want to make a big move somewhere, since her job didn't work out and it is an opportunity to do that.

 Secondly, and this may be important for her to know later, one year from now, in the summer, solar arc Sun will be making a conjunction to her natal Mercury at 22 degrees, exactly when transiting Pluto will be at 22 degrees opposition.  That is a huge time of life development for her...not about marriage, though possibly could involve a dramatic sexual encounter (Mercury ruling 8, Pluto ruling ASC).  But because of the ambition in her horoscope, I think much more about career (Sun ruling MC).

 I think she is headed for bigger and more important things.  It makes sense that she likes theater and the dramatic expression, but her chart is all about getting the words right and powerful.  Words and communication are everything to her.  As you said, she is good at editing, but there are so many avenues for her talents and her ambition.  She'll be fine I think.  She is head strong enough to take it on. 

[Halina]

Hi Pam, here is how the Hubers determine one's strong and weak House.    See the DYNAMIC COUNTING TABLE for your niece below.
If you go to the thread titled.....THE HUBER METHOD, using the Tyl search bar, this method is explained by the many examples given by myself and James.
Your niece's weakest House, is her 6th House of Work.....while her strongest House is her 8th House.    Perhaps around ages 36 to 42 she might want to explore a career in astrology.
     From this table, we can see that she was short in fulfilling what the House, the environment, the employers required.     Her Signs, innate qualities, enabled her to produce a significant effort.
     

[Halina]

        Here's a repost of James's interpretation of Stacey's DYNAMIC COUNTING TABLE:
"Will not repeat the methodology mentioned above, but here's Stacy's breakdown...

Combining -65 of the fixed cross with the -9's of both the fire and air temperaments, we get fixed fire Leo and fixed air Aquarius, which corresponds to the 5th and 11th Houses, respectively.  So the 5th and 11th Houses are minus houses.

And combining the +38 of the mutable cross and the +18 earth temperament, we get mutable earth Virgo, which corresponds to the 6th House.  So the 6th House is a plus house.

Thus, again, generally speaking, "most people are strongly influenced by the plus houses, and have learned to function in that area of life" (p. 55).

And with the passage of the Age Point through the 6th House, 6th House problems "will be keenly felt between ages 30 and 36...[but]...a high plus number [such as we have here] always indicates an ability to stand stress" (p. 55).

The 5th House for Stacy is a minus house, and when the Age Progression passed through it from age 24 to 30, "life will probably become rather uncertain...When the Age Point passes through a minus house, we feel rather insecure and helpless, needing know-how, needing to grasp that we have a freedom we can use...Interestingly enough, a house with minus numbers offers room to maneuver.  To combat a feeling of helplessness, we can take ourselves in hand...we are relatively free to be ourselves; that is to say, we can live in the spirit of the sign [i.e., Leo for Stacy] occupying the inherited disposition" (p. 56). 

[Pamela Young]

Hi Pam.  At this point you are probably done with this thread, but I just wanted to point out two things.  One is that your niece's solar arc Sun is presently opposite to her Uranus, suggesting that she might want to make a big move somewhere, since her job didn't work out and it is an opportunity to do that.

 Secondly, and this may be important for her to know later, one year from now, in the summer, solar arc Sun will be making a conjunction to her natal Mercury at 22 degrees, exactly when transiting Pluto will be at 22 degrees opposition.  That is a huge time of life development for her...not about marriage, though possibly could involve a dramatic sexual encounter (Mercury ruling 8, Pluto ruling ASC).  But because of the ambition in her horoscope, I think much more about career (Sun ruling MC).

 I think she is headed for bigger and more important things.  It makes sense that she likes theater and the dramatic expression, but her chart is all about getting the words right and powerful.  Words and communication are everything to her.  As you said, she is good at editing, but there are so many avenues for her talents and her ambition.  She'll be fine I think.  She is head strong enough to take it on.

Thank you so much, Barbara.  I had wondered about the configurations you mentioned (the secondary progressed and solar arc Sun opposing her 3rd house Uranus, and then next year conjoining her 9th house Mercury while transiting Pluto is in exact opposition; thanks for the food for thought.  It will certainly be interesting to see how all this pans out.

[Pamela Young]

Hi Pam, here is how the Hubers determine one's strong and weak House.    See the DYNAMIC COUNTING TABLE for your niece below.
If you go to the thread titled.....THE HUBER METHOD, using the Tyl search bar, this method is explained by the many examples given by myself and James.
Your niece's weakest House, is her 6th House of Work.....while her strongest House is her 8th House.    Perhaps around ages 36 to 42 she might want to explore a career in astrology.
     From this table, we can see that she was short in fulfilling what the House, the environment, the employers required.   Her Signs, innate qualities, enabled her to produce a significant effort.
   

Thank you, Halina.  I must admit that I have never gotten into the Huber method, so cannot really judge your comments above relating to my niece.  I'm not sure I'm even understanding what you said; I find it hard to believe that 'she was short in fulfilling what the House, the environment, the employers required.'  Dynamic counting table be damned; in my opinion the statement quoted above in red is BS, to put it as politely as possible (sorry, I'm starting to fray a bit around the emotional edges with regard to judgments made about my niece by people who don't know her from Adam.)

[Pamela Young]

        Here's a repost of James's interpretation of Stacey's DYNAMIC COUNTING TABLE:
"Will not repeat the methodology mentioned above, but here's Stacy's breakdown...

Combining -65 of the fixed cross with the -9's of both the fire and air temperaments, we get fixed fire Leo and fixed air Aquarius, which corresponds to the 5th and 11th Houses, respectively.  So the 5th and 11th Houses are minus houses.

And combining the +38 of the mutable cross and the +18 earth temperament, we get mutable earth Virgo, which corresponds to the 6th House.  So the 6th House is a plus house.

Thus, again, generally speaking, "most people are strongly influenced by the plus houses, and have learned to function in that area of life" (p. 55).

And with the passage of the Age Point through the 6th House, 6th House problems "will be keenly felt between ages 30 and 36...[but]...a high plus number [such as we have here] always indicates an ability to stand stress" (p. 55).

The 5th House for Stacy is a minus house, and when the Age Progression passed through it from age 24 to 30, "life will probably become rather uncertain...When the Age Point passes through a minus house, we feel rather insecure and helpless, needing know-how, needing to grasp that we have a freedom we can use...Interestingly enough, a house with minus numbers offers room to maneuver.  To combat a feeling of helplessness, we can take ourselves in hand...we are relatively free to be ourselves; that is to say, we can live in the spirit of the sign [i.e., Leo for Stacy] occupying the inherited disposition" (p. 56).

Halina, I realize you are trying to be helpful, and I appreciate it.  Having said that, I don't follow why you are quoting from a report about Stacy with regard to my niece.  Is it because they both have Fire and Air?  But my niece's Air is primarily in Gemini, not Aquarius.  I just don't follow the rationale for this at all. 

[Halina]

Hi Pam,  sorry you are having trouble with the Huber method.....guess we should stick with familiar methods  like Liz Greene astrology.     I think to understand Huber one would have to start from scratch, using the SEARCH bar for this site and reading the whole Huber thread.     Good luck with your niece's career.

[Pamela Young]

Hi Pam,  sorry you are having trouble with the Huber method.....guess we should stick with familiar methods  like Liz Greene astrology.     I think to understand Huber one would have to start from scratch, using the SEARCH bar for this site and reading the whole Huber thread.     Good luck with your niece's career.

    Well, I just have to laugh, Halina; there's a putdown if there ever was one.  I didn't say I was having trouble with the Huber method, as you put it; I said I had never gotten into it.  That was a deliberate choice on my part.  If you don't think highly of Liz Greene's approach, that's your prerogative.  There are many, many different ways to approach astrology, and at this point I am comfortable with what I have learned.  I am not about to start all over with something different, be it the Huber method, or Vedic astrology, or Chinese or Hellenistic or mediaeval or whatever.  I spent several years of my life working towards my qualification in astrology, and I'm done.  Not saying that what I've learned is the be all and end all, just that at this point in my life, I'm not up for starting all over with something else, not this lifetime.  What I have learned works well for me most of the time, and I feel no need to go seeking something different that might work better.

And by the way - "Good luck with your niece's career"?  After you gave a whole big long quotation from Stacy's Dynamic Counting Table, as though it somehow applied to my niece, and then have not bothered to answer my question as to why you thought it would apply to her?  As what was quoted was rather negative, I believe this was yet another of your not so subtle putdowns.  Not for the first time, Halina, I have to say with regard to you and your astrology - I give up.

[Robynne]

Pam,

Just viewing your nieces chart again, I would still be looking to her Mars opposite Saturn rx, even though out of sign.
Pluto is too gradual and too slow moving, although intense and transformational, but throughout her life will probably bring up tests in the use of personal power or potency.

Often with Mars - Saturn it can feel like maximum effort or energy input for very little or slow reward or results. With Saturn being rx, in a house of its detriment and in Pisces, it still feels like throughout her life, lessons in patience and looking at long term goals, would be testing but eventually rewarding.

Saturn rx often can actually indicate underlying shyness or reserve.

Btw; Liz Greene was my main early astrology teacher too via her books. I think she holds a more feminine perspective.

Am looking at the overall perspective here though, sorry if it sounds simplistic.

[pdw]

Pam,

Just viewing your nieces chart again, I would still be looking to her Mars opposite Saturn rx, even though out of sign.
Pluto is too gradual and too slow moving, although intense and transformational, but throughout her life will probably bring up tests in the use of personal power or potency.

Often with Mars - Saturn it can feel like maximum effort or energy input for very little or slow reward or results. With Saturn being rx, in a house of its detriment and in Pisces, it still feels like throughout her life, lessons in patience and looking at long term goals, would be testing but eventually rewarding.

Excellent addition, Robynne. Don’t know how Pamela will respond but I feel like this is the best (most astute and useful) comment about her niece’s Mars-Saturn opposition so far.

I’d add that her niece's emphasized natal Pluto (Ascendant ruler in her 1st House) squares this natal Mars-Saturn opposition, forming an angular, fixed T-Square. Looks to me like a strong stabilizing foundation for learning how to successfully manage (Pluto) Mars acceleration (personal initiative, courage, enthusiasm) and Saturn brakes (such as difficult circumstances, unfulfilled expectations, and  self-doubt). Perhaps she’s especially wired to experience-develop personal confidence, resourcefulness, and faith in herself (with the Leo-Scorpio-Pisces emphasis).   

Pamela, hasn’t she already encountered this dynamic, in a way? If I recall, didn’t she come up against personal rejection in college – loving to act and perform, but being passed over for roles which led to personal reevaluation and a change to the technical side of theater arts? 

Still, I don’t see the above in emphasis on June 25, so I’m having a hard time considering it a direct reflection of your niece’s firing. However, now that we know her chart included SA Sun=Uranus potential (thanks, Barbara), referencing and emphasizing contacts to her natal Uranus, I think there’s a compelling case for transiting Mercury to be the firing trigger on June 25 – when it was conjunct her natal Mercury (10th co-ruler, referencing work) and opposing her natal Neptune-Uranus (fitting the 'suddenly let go' scenario).