Author Topic: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.  (Read 637 times)

Offline Robynne

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Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« on: August 10, 2018, 10:54:49 AM »
Hello Forum,

I would just like to open up this topic, as it's one I have thought on for a very long time, so would love the feedback.

If the natal chart shows potentials, are they not really the wishes or desires of the parents showing their situation at the time of your birth?

For example; My mother often stated that when she was younger, she wanted to be either a hairdresser, nurse, or vet, and she ended up having daughters that became qualified as a hairdresser, nurse, and veterinary assistant, and yet we are all also mothers as well, and often those roles are interchangeable due to the need for multi tasking.

So, I guess my question is; Who really decides what aptitudes you have?
Is it really just a case of early parental conditioning or circumstances that assign roles to children, often by comments like; 'Oh, she is a real mother', or 'She is very arty and creative' and then the suggestion is reinforced.

Does anyone have stories of this relating to their chart? Would love to hear..

~Only with the heart can you see rightly, what is invisible to the naked eye~

Offline James Williams

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"Time is a trick, a vast illusion...Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by"  (Jesus).

Offline Robynne

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 11:18:57 PM »
Thanks Jim,

That's a very good article, quite a few chords struck there that gel with my own recent thoughts, especially about residual energy, which can possibly relate to issues left that feel unresolved.

Still feel that if karmic contracts are shown in the chart it's often the Pluto-Saturn contacts that keep you hanging in there. As if something has to be seen through to it's final conclusion.

Have a few examples that I will post later.

Occasionally, astrology can be so accurate it's scary..

~Only with the heart can you see rightly, what is invisible to the naked eye~

Offline Barbara Ybarra

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2018, 07:11:35 AM »
I sense that the East Indian version of karma has been polluted (or colored) over time (like their rivers) with the need to justify their social/political caste system.  The premise always sounded too simplistic to me.  If you have been mean, cruel or unjust to someone in another lifetime, then they will be mean to you in this lifetime.  That cannot be how it works in total, though if someone is on a downward spiral, it will look like that.

Anyway, to respond to the question, I think dreams and desires are a part of it, because I think prior to our birth we are gradually being attracted to the sorts of things in the world which resonate best with who we are, and after that, the particular emotional-developmental situation which best fits our needs.  Edgar Cayce would often say in his readings that a person knew so-and-so in another lifetime, but other times he would say it was someone new (such as a spouse or parent). So, I guess those are perhaps 2 different things - what we are attracted to and who we are attracted to in life.

I would bet that the things we love best doing on Earth are the same from lifetime to lifetime.  The lessons are probably not that much different each time either.  I think as souls we each strive towards a distinct inidividuality (just like the Sun glyph, the dot in the whole), and if we think of ourselves in terms of “the fall” from grace, which hardly anyone does, we can imagine that there is some fault which we work to repair over and over again, with very slow development, and all the while we choose to be near and around the things we love in order to make it bearable. 

I, for instance, was born to a father who played drums in a swing band (until he quit to work for a steady paycheck), and a mother who “designed jewelry” (or so she called it).  The only dream my mother had for me was to marry a rich man, and the only dream my father had for me was to “be good” and not give him an ulcer.  No one had any great dreams for me, but I found myself writing poetry as a child constantly.  I loved writing.  It was not until I was past the age of 21 that my father suddenly started writing, and he told me he had won lots of writing contests when he was young.  I did know that he loved words, though...and so I gravitated to his house when it was time for me to be born.


Offline Halina

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2018, 07:12:01 AM »
Hi Robynne,  "So, I guess my question is; Who really decides what aptitudes you have?
Is it really just a case of early parental conditioning or circumstances that assign roles to children, often by comments like; 'Oh, she is a real mother', or 'She is very arty and creative' and then the suggestion is reinforced."
      The Hubers describe this very well.....In your natal chart, the Signs give your inherited predisposition that you bring with you, while the Houses show your conditioning by the environment, parents, etc.    So let's look at your chart from a Huber perspective.    Look at the Dynamic Scoring Table for Signs(Inherited Traits) versus Houses(Environmental Conditioning).   I have circled in red where the environment greatly outscored your inherited traits.
      Environment conditioning was huge in the CARDINAL FIRE, ARIES and CARDINAL EARTH(CAPRICORN).
Hairdressers are ruled by ARIES, while parent of the same sex, your mother, is ruled by the 10th H or CAPRICORN.   And since HOUSES greatly outscored SIGNS, this shows that you were conditioned by your MOTHER and the environment,  to go into the career of hair dressing.   
      Hairdressing is also ruled by VENUS....and your Venus is in CAPRICORN( WHICH SCORED HIGH IN ENVIRONMENT CONDITIONING).
Venus rules the 9th House of Higher Education, & 4th, Parents, again, both,  representing Environmental Conditioning.,
     Notice your 3rd House....it is in ARIES....people communicate to you about Aries things, such as hairdressing....."What beautiful hair you have"....so again
the collective environment is imprinting you.     The collective environment outscores any aptitude you had from previous lifetimes for skills in hair styling.
Your Age Point was in your 3rd House of Aries, from ages 12 to 18 then moved into Taurus, ruled by Venus in Capricorn from ages 18 to 24.
     By the way, HAIR IS RULED BY CAPRICORN!   Hair is also ruled by Saturn, and your Saturn is conj your Asc.     Hair is also ruled by VENUS and your venus is in CAPRICORN.   Hair is also ruled by MERCURY which is conj your ASC.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 08:18:21 AM by Halina »

Offline pdw

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2018, 03:48:27 PM »
Robynne, for me astrology is about possibilities, not outcomes. Looking at your natal Moon-Pluto opposition I'd say it suggests potential for you to be very receptive to your mother’s influence, perhaps both consciously and unconsciously (with the water-y Moon-Pluto emphasis). I can imagine your identifying with, being drawn to, and absorbing her personal feelings, dreams, and ideals, about earning money and profession (with an impressionable 2nd House Pisces Moon; and a work-oriented Pluto, in Virgo and ruling your MC).

Astrologically, perhaps yours was fertile ground to receive ‘seed ideas’ from your mother, early on, but were you destined to become a hairdresser? Nope, that was only a possibility in my astrology world – it took your conscious choice and supporting circumstances to make it a reality.   



Offline Robynne

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2018, 06:11:03 PM »
Thanks everyone,

So just to play devils advocate again,


out of a;


Scorpio Ascendant, Sun in Scorpio, Moon in Leo

Cancer Ascendant, Sun in Scorpio, Moon in Capricorn

Aquarian Ascendant, Pisces Sun, Pisces Moon

..which was the Hairdresser, the Nurse, the Veterenary Assistant.


(Think you can see my point, and will leave the mechanic out of it for now).

 ;D
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 06:13:54 PM by Robynne »
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Offline Halina

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2018, 07:49:30 AM »
       Brilliant observation PDW,   Moon, 2nd, ruling work, 6th, opp Pluto, ruler 10, career choice gives "conflict with the mother concerning career choice."
Definitely conditioning by the environment......she was not born as "Miss Scissorhands".

Offline Robynne

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 10:07:46 AM »
Noted with the NN ruler Moon in the 2nd pdw, thanks for pointing that out Halina.
Re; Moon opposite Pluto, will just say I was particularly sensitive to criticism.


So just to seperate myself from my sister's here ... to look from a vocational perspective;

I grew up before the computer age. It wasn't until my daughter was at college (high school in the US) that my family  purchased a computer.
I found out along the way that I really loved web design, and astrology.This would be more in keeping with the Midheaven extension process I think.


Taken from the Ascendant ruler; Uranus (1) cj Pluto (10) in mutual reception with Mercury (5,8).


It would also encompass the Venus sextile Jupiter, which is a love of using the colour spectrum, generally I just love playing with complementary colour, contrast and design.
Web design is also a lot about spacing and the right use of white space, and then there is the more technical side of wording, choice of fonts, layout and the all important coding,
because without correct coding the whole page would look like a scrambled mess. Also, client communication and interpreting their choice of design and the effect they are wanting
to achieve is hugely important.

I'm an amateur at best, but think the vocational exercises are really beneficial, but in the world of computing, job descriptions seem to be changing at an alarming rate as the
web gets more sophisticated and more and more training is required, so a lot of the job descriptions need fine tuning.

Also, it's possible that my early piano training helps to keep my hands flexible and able to fly around the keyboard. After seeing many older persons with arthritis in their hands,
typing can be very therapeutic.


Thanks for indulging me here.





« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 07:18:34 PM by Robynne »
~Only with the heart can you see rightly, what is invisible to the naked eye~

Offline ChrisSarah

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2018, 08:22:46 AM »
I love your question, Robynne. I have often thought about what I think is a related Q from the perspective of psychology-specifically, the nature vs. nurture debate, which is a false dichotomy in my opinion. In human experience, you can never have one without the other. They are always intertwined. Whatever hypothetical potential is there at birth (or even before birth), it is always shaped in and by our inevitable, synergistic relationship with the world, including parental desires and expectations. Based on my observations, it does seem as though children have a compelling need to be something they already are, despite the efforts of the world to shape them- but the world is still shaping them even then, challenging them to fight harder for who they are, for example, or teaching them learned helplessness, as a sadder alternative.

Moving to astrology, does the natal chart then show the hypothetical potential, with the progressed chart, perhaps, showing how this ultimately manifests? Halina describes a distinction between signs and houses, which I did not know about and it will be interesting for me to think about this in terms of charts/people I know. And what about the idea that someone might be “off-track” in terms of what his/her natal chart suggests? Can this be? Or would something in the chart also have to indicate that? Maybe the potentials represented within the chart always have to be embodied- by definition- but it’s a matter of how useful and fulfilling the manifestations of the potentials are? I get confused when I wonder about these questions from the perspective of astrology. However, the idea that we are born into a life that somehow fulfills our natal charts is appealing to me & it seems to fill a gap that psychology leaves open or something psychology gets wrong with what was once an over-attention to nature vs nurture, even though I can’t articulate exactly how this is so.

Maybe I’m just stating the obvious…?

My chart (and life) reflects a very strong family of origin influence, and my parents often asked, “Who’s child is she?,” thinking I could not have possibly come from either of them.

Is there something in your chart that suggests coming to your vocation later in life, or something going on in transits, Solar Arc, or progressions when you discovered the computer?

Thx for the food for thought.

Offline Robynne

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2018, 11:54:28 AM »
Hi Chris Sarah,

I remember the main astrological event when I got online was that Power stellium in Taurus, in the year 2000.

My main excitement was thinking; 'Wow, I might be able to talk with other people about astrology'. I was very keen after having completed local courses in astrology to branch out a bit. Made some lovely new friends along the way, who feel like old friends now, 18 years later.

Am just concerned about reading the charts of babies and children. It could inadvertantly shape or typecast them, before they had a mind of their own. Have revised my thoughts on that.
~Only with the heart can you see rightly, what is invisible to the naked eye~

Offline pdw

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2018, 12:58:53 PM »
Good point, Robynne – the computerized Information Age has really opened up a whole new world of job skills, descriptions, and opportunity. 

I like your self-delineation of how web designing fits your chart and current interests. Your Sun opposing Uranus, with both contacting (trine-sextile) your MC, also looks related to me – reflecting creative self-expression, doing what you love, working with specialized, progressive, or inventive technology.

Doing something new with your astrology (e.g., a blog, certification, offering consultations) might be another possibility, especially now with transiting Uranus support (triggering your natal Sun-Uranus opposition and MC). For a while now I’ve had the feeling that folks would appreciate your thoughtful approach, people-friendly manner, and good sense about life. I sure do. :) 
 

Offline Robynne

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2018, 11:02:54 AM »
Thanks pdw,

Was just thinking yesterday, that anyone who practices astrology would have to have leanings towards being an individualist. You can't study thousands of charts without understanding that there are so many different shades of human experience.

So guess that studying astrology, was my chosen point of difference, although my father studied astronomy, and my brother spent some time studying Chinese astrology. There seems to be a very strong predominance of angular Uranus in my birth family, 4th, 7th and 10th houses are strongly highlighted.
~Only with the heart can you see rightly, what is invisible to the naked eye~

Offline Don Borkowski

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2018, 05:33:43 PM »
This is a good topic, Robynne.  I really have very little idea about what my parents dreamed for me.  I think my father wished I could enter his profession (electrical engineering,) and I did, too.  But in high school, I could not make heads or tails of physics, and so I tried to find something different, but just as technical.  My mother just wanted me to go to, and hopefully, to join a church.  The denomination in which I was raised (Disciples of Christ) practiced adult baptism by immersion.  I was never baptized because I was afraid of drowning, and at least one of my sisters feels the same way.

Don B.         
True astrology is that which can be taught to other people who can then replicate the teachers' conclusions through their own effort.  --Don Borkowski in July 1983 issue of MERCURY HOUR

Offline Robynne

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Re: Assigned Roles vs Inherited Traits.
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2018, 08:01:50 PM »
Thanks Don,

I must admit, your chart does seem particularly suited to being an accountant.

I think my Dad only hoped that out of all his children he could produce at least one decent musician, as we all had piano lessons when we were younger.
Although, I  was the only one that studied music at college (high school) . Venus ruled 9th house.

 :)


« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 09:27:52 PM by Robynne »
~Only with the heart can you see rightly, what is invisible to the naked eye~