Author Topic: Is all killing karmic murder?  (Read 701 times)

Offline adol33

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Is all killing karmic murder?
« on: October 10, 2018, 03:13:36 AM »
I killed the rat.

I've noted that people quite often have an affinity with the animals
of the Chinese Zodiac year in which they are born. A bias.

I know a woman born in the year of the horse, and she loves horses.
Another friend, born in the year of the monkey.. acts like a monkey.
My sister, born in the year of the dog, loves dogs.
I was born in the year of the Rat. I think I even look a bit like one.

For the past few months I've have had a rat living in a compartment
beneath the sink cupboard. Decided that the stereotype is unfair,
that people love things like hamsters, yet hate rats.

Probably no fleas, no disease risk. May be wrong, but I question our
revulsion for things, for example, cockroaches, which I think, if
they lived in the sea, would be considered a delicacy.

What if prawns scuttled about the dark corners of our kitchens,
the identical creatures, would we cook them and eat them?

So I treated it, the poor timid, hiding creature, like royalty.
For three months, every night would leave out health bread, cheese,
chicken, even a dish of yoghurt with muesli which it licked clean.

It even started squeaking for me sometimes when I walked in, as if
to say 'hello'.

But then two nights ago, it went too far. It managed to pull open
a cupboard and ripped packets apart containing various types of food.
It somehow dragged a whole bar of glycerine soap from the bathroom
to its flat, can you believe it, they eat soap?

I finally gave in, and after deliberating for a day, became a murderer.

My question is, does everybody who kills rats invite bad karma?
Where does one draw the line?

I asked for a sign, something to tell me not to do it. Sounds crazy,
but the universe often gives me signs when I ask for them.

I have examples, that showed me the right path, but let's not digress.

I received no sign.

I put down Rattex pellets last night, and they had been removed by this
morning, as usual, stored with a level of consciousness that is aware
of storing things in preparation for an uncertain future.

Like us, fearful, unknowing, uncertain, needy, taking what we can.

I know they hemmorage to death. It must be a very painful way to die.

Unlike D.H. Lawrence's snake which got away,  it is probably dying right now.

Quietly, alone, as you read this.

Was I right, or was I wrong?

For some questions, I don't want to know the answers.


From Jude the Obscure, by Thomas Hardy.

"Of course you shan't do it," said Jude. "I'll do it, since it must
be done."

He went out to the sty, shovelled away the snow for the space of a
couple of yards or more, and placed the stool in front, with the
knives and ropes at hand. A robin peered down at the preparations
from the nearest tree, and, not liking the sinister look of the
scene, flew away, though hungry. By this time Arabella had joined
her husband, and Jude, rope in hand, got into the sty, and noosed the
affrighted animal, who, beginning with a squeak of surprise, rose to
repeated cries of rage. Arabella opened the sty-door, and together
they hoisted the victim on to the stool, legs upward, and while Jude
held him Arabella bound him down, looping the cord over his legs to
keep him from struggling.

The animal's note changed its quality. It was not now rage, but the
cry of despair; long-drawn, slow and hopeless.

"Upon my soul I would sooner have gone without the pig than have had
this to do!" said Jude. "A creature I have fed with my own hands."

"Don't be such a tender-hearted fool! There's the sticking-knife--
the one with the point. Now whatever you do, don't stick un too

"I'll stick him effectually, so as to make short work of it. That's
the chief thing."

"You must not!" she cried. "The meat must be well bled, and to do
that he must die slow. We shall lose a shilling a score if the meat
is red and bloody! Just touch the vein, that's all. I was brought
up to it, and I know. Every good butcher keeps un bleeding long.
He ought to be eight or ten minutes dying, at least."

"He shall not be half a minute if I can help it, however the meat may
look," said Jude determinedly. Scraping the bristles from the pig's
upturned throat, as he had seen the butchers do, he slit the fat;
then plunged in the knife with all his might.

"'Od damn it all!" she cried, "that ever I should say it! You've
over-stuck un! And I telling you all the time--"

"Do be quiet, Arabella, and have a little pity on the creature!"

"Hold up the pail to catch the blood, and don't talk!"

However unworkmanlike the deed, it had been mercifully done. The
blood flowed out in a torrent instead of in the trickling stream she
had desired. The dying animal's cry assumed its third and final
tone, the shriek of agony; his glazing eyes riveting themselves on
Arabella with the eloquently keen reproach of a creature recognizing
at last the treachery of those who had seemed his only friends.

Offline Steven7

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Re: Is all killing karmic murder?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2018, 05:31:04 PM »
 My slacker cat only caught one mouse over 16 years, he was spiritually advanced perhaps. Once he sat for hours  to protect an injured bird in the yard.
  I've caught dozens of mice, I use a have a heart trap and release them in the park.
  Maybe it was his sun in Aquarius that made him an offbeat cat.

I know people born the year of the pig but have no interest in having  pigs for pets.

Offline Robynne

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Re: Is all killing karmic murder?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2018, 10:38:00 PM »
Year of the Rabbit.

I read once that they have a sense of refinement and dislike crude behaviour.

I agree wholeheartedly with those two thoughts.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 11:05:03 PM by Robynne »
Be kind!. It never hurts anyone, and just might make someones day!

Offline Pamela Young

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Re: Is all killing karmic murder?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 04:46:17 AM »
'Is all killing karmic murder?'  Karmic?  How so?  They killed you in your last life, so this time you're killing them? 

I don't know, but these stories of the deaths of mice and rats have got me thinking about an uncomfortable subject for me, the recent death of one of my cats.  She disappeared very late on July 20 or very early on July 21; she went out around 11:30 at night and never came back.  I strongly suspect, in fact I'm as sure as I can be without having actually seen it happen myself, that she was killed by a coyote. 

There's a big, wild ravine right behind my house, totally unfenced, and there's coyotes in there.  Back in late September of 2011 another cat of mine disappeared the exact same way, and the next night, as I looked out my back door for her around 1:30 A.M., a big coyote came out of the trees into my back yard; it was BIG, and actually looked like a wolf, not to put too fine a point on it.  There are, in fact, wolves in this vicinity, as the area where I live is a relatively new subdivision, and used to be just countryside.  They're still building new condo buildings and apartment buildings in this area; it just never stops.  So the wild animals are being pushed increasingly into settled areas to look for food.  I've seen deer in my back yard the last few years, which I never had before, and where there's deer there's coyotes, not to mention wolves. 

It was the first time I ever wished I'd had a gun; if I had, I'd have used it without a qualm.  As it was, I just banged on the window, hard; the coyote (or wolf) looked right at me, and then turned tail and ran down into the ravine.  My cat never came back, and I drove all over looking for her in case she'd been hit by a car, and walked all over calling her and looking up trees and down into culverts and into dumpsters and garbage cans; there was no sign of her.  She'd vanished.  In my opinion, there's no question that that wolf or coyote got her.  And the same thing happened this time.  Two days after my cat disappeared, I looked out the back door around 3:00 A.M. and didn't see my cat, but did see a big coyote running through my back yard, clearly chasing something.  It came from my neighbour's back yard, cut diagonally across mine and disappeared around the corner of my house towards the front yard and the street.  Once again, despite not having seen it actually happen, there's no doubt in my mind about what happened to my poor cat.

So I tell myself, it's not the coyotes' fault; they're just trying to survive, and it's not their fault that their natural habitat is being taken away from them.  What else are they supposed to do?  If we choose to continue to build ever more developments on what was wild land, we're just asking for more of this.  When I was a kid growing up in this town, you never heard about coyotes killing pets; now it's becoming ever more commonplace.  What's it going to take to stop all this building, a coyote killing a human baby rather than a dog or cat?  At this rate there will soon be no green space left at all, which is sure to have dreadful consequences we can't even imagine.

Back to the issue of karma.  Both of my cats who disappeared and were presumably killed had done plenty of killing themselves during their lives.  I don't believe in keeping cats as indoor pets only; I think that's cruel.  They have a right to lead a normal life, and if you're not willing to risk losing them, you should have a dog rather than a cat.  But they do spend their time outside largely hunting: mice, birds, rabbits, voles, chipmunks - you name it, they hunt it. 

I remember once watching one incredible time when my cat (the first one who disappeared) was about to kill a mouse on my patio, just outside the back door.  I had been reading in the living room, right close by, and gradually became aware of what sounded like distant screaming, very, very faint.  I finally thought, What IS that?  and got up to investigate.  That's when I saw my cat and the mouse.  It's hard to believe I'd heard the mouse screaming; maybe it was somehow a manifestation of a sixth sense on my part, though I'm not psychic at all as far as I'm aware.  But anyway, there was this poor little mouse, and it was standing up on its hind legs facing my cat, which in size must have seemed like Tyrannosarus Rex to the mouse.  The latter was either shaking its fists (as it were) at my cat, or begging for mercy; I don't know which, but one of the two.  At least, that's how it looked, I swear to you.  I banged on the glass to try to stop my cat, or at least give the mouse time to get away.  But cats have no mercy; that poor little mouse was very soon put an end to (pardon my rotten grammar; you get the picture).

Well, I don't feel I could blame my cat; she was hard wired to act as she did.  But I often used to marvel, as she lay curled up with me, so loving, that she could behave as she did when hunting; hard to believe it was the same animal.  And then basically she suffered the exact same fate as that which she had inflicted on that mouse, and on so many others.  And the same thing befell my next cat just a few weeks ago.  Cats have no more chance against coyotes, much less wolves, than mice do against cats. 

Karma?  I don't know.  But I do know that I'm through getting cats.  I can't go through it again; it just hurts too much when you lose them.  Just as well, I suppose, since they're bringing in a new piece of legislation in my town that pet cats will not be allowed to go outside; there's a very vocal group of bird lovers here, who hate cats because they kill their precious birds.  What about the birds killing worms, eating them alive?  Such hypocrisy.  (You can tell I'm a cat lover; I have nothing against birds, but really, bird lovers can be very hypocritical).

(Sorry for the lack of astrology here; I suppose anyone interested could take a look at my chart for the night of July 20/21).
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 04:51:45 AM by Pamela Young »

Offline Daleth

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Re: Is all killing karmic murder?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2018, 12:05:51 PM »
<i>'Is all killing karmic murder?'  Karmic?  How so?  They killed you in your last life, so this time you're killing them?  </i>

I read that as, "is all killing bad" (i.e. does all killing get you bad karma). And I would say no; self-defense killing definitely not, and accidental killing maybe, depending on the circumstances. Like, I would think a 2-year-old who accidentally kills someone because her idiot dad left a gun out can't get bad karma from that (but dad might).

Offline crabman

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Re: Is all killing karmic murder?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2018, 05:56:53 PM »
Sometimes one has to kill vermin.  I just say a prayer for them to have a better next life.

Offline Hudson Valley Astrologer

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Re: Is all killing karmic murder?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2018, 05:44:45 AM »
There are 'good' butchers and 'bad' butchers.