USA Sibley

[Jamie Partridge]

The Sibley chart for the USA, or Sag rising chart is listed at Astro Databank as USA No.1. "generally considered the chart of the U.S...Date of the signature of the Declaration of Independence, from the Library of Congress, The Philadelphia Historic Society. Thomas Jefferson, when an old man, said it was "late afternoon" when the document was signed. John Adams and John Quincey Adams said they signed "late in the day."

Sibly, an 18th century British astrologer, published the first known horoscope of the U.S. for 10:00 PM GMT which equals 5:00 PM, LMT, Philadelphia. John B. Early, an American astrologer, had written on the margin of his contemporary Raphael's ephemeris, "Declaration signed 10:10 PM." on the July page of his almanac of 1776."

The very best event to check the accuracy of a national chart I have found is the first nuclear test of a nation.

Transits to Sibley chart from Trinity, precess 142', conjunctions only:

North Node conjunct Jupiter 46'
Pluto conjunct North Node 24'
Neptune conjunct MC 30'
Uranus conjunct DC 52'
Saturn conjunct Sun 04'
Jupiter conjunct Lilith 57'
Fortunae conjunct Chiron 22'

If you include precession, the transiting Pluto is now squaring the MC, with Saturn on the MC. If you don't use precession, the transiting Pluto is opposite Venus, and Saturn squaring it. Could this have something to do with the financial reforms in the news today?

[Steve]

Hi Jamie,

Also, the 9/11 event offers strong angular transit symbolism with t. Pluto partile conjunct Sibley’s Ascendant opposing t. Saturn. IF, there is going to be an event pertaining to the USA Sibley Chart, I would expect this event to occur near the end of July when t. conjunct Mars-Saturn is partile conjunct Sibley’s MC—partile opposing t. Uranus—with t. Mars acting as the main trigger. 

Regards, Steve

[Jamie Partridge]

Also, the 9/11 event offers strong angular transit symbolism with t. Pluto partile conjunct Sibley’s Ascendant opposing t. Saturn.

Pluto transits to the angles are very telling in mundane astrology. Pluto on the AC for the WTC bombing, plus Saturn on DC convinced a lot of astrologers about the accuracy of this chart. I just checked out some history with Pluto transits to the USA AC, just conjunct, opposite and squares:

Square
1807 - A grand jury indicts former Vice President Aaron Burr for treason.
1809 - A decision by the Supreme Court states that the power of the federal government is greater than any individual state.

Opposite
1897 - A sheriff's posse kills more than 19 unarmed immigrant miners in Pennsylvania.
1898 - New York City annexes land from surrounding counties, creating the City of Greater New York.
1898 - The US Navy begins a blockade of Cuban ports and the USS Nashville captures a Spanish merchant ship.
1898 – The US declares war on Spain
1898 - The US captures Guam making it the first U.S. overseas territory.
1899 - The Philippine-American War begins as hostilities break out in Manila.

Square
1963 - John F. Kennedy assassination.
1964 - Plans to build the New York World Trade Center are announced.
1964 - Berkeley student riots
1964 - Malcolm X is assassinated in Manhattan.
1965 - Bloody Sunday, 200 Alabama State Troopers clash with 525 civil rights demonstrators in Selma, Alabama.
1965 - 3,500 United States Marines arrive in South Vietnam, becoming the first American combat troops in Vietnam.

Conjunct
2001 - U.S. forces carry out bombing raids, attempting to disable Iraq's air defense network.
2001 - WTC attack
2001 - Enron files bankruptcy protection (to that point, the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history).
2001 - George W. Bush announces the United States' withdrawal from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.
2002 - The Dot-com bubble bear market reaches bottom, when the Dow Jones Industrial Average slips below 7,200.
2002 - Iraq War Resolution is authorized by a majority of the U.S. Congress.

[Jamie Partridge]

 http://edkohout.com/mundane/sibly-1.html
The whole article is well worth a close reading.[/url]

I thought a Freemason conspiracy theory would lure a Papist.

"To this day we still have the problem of affixing the proper angles to this most important chart.  Without proper angles, much delineation and prognostication may be for naught, or limited at best."

See my previous post, the Pluto transits to the MC are also excellent, but I'll keep them up my sleeve for a while.

[Jamie Partridge]

Lots of quotes and links there Lorenzo but you forgot this one:

"Congress adopted the Declaration of Independence...on July 4, 1776. That date is now celebrated annually as America's Independence Day." Wiki

[Steve]

"To this day we still have the problem of affixing the proper angles to this most important chart.  Without proper angles, much delineation and prognostication may be for naught, or limited at best."

I think Lorenzo’s above quoted statement is the crux of this matter as to which USA Chart best represents events with potent angular symbolism. There is no dispute among astrologers-- the angles of a horoscope ‘represent the most powerful, active, dynamic areas’ of a scope. This angular ancient doctrine for a scope will be put to a severe test for the USA Sibly Chart in the last week of July. On July 30th, Mars and Saturn are partile conjunct at 0 degrees Libra partile Conjunct Sibly’s USA’S 0 degree Libra MC, partile opposing a 0 degree Aries Uranus. These three planets are entering cardinal signs dead-on USA Sibly’s MC-IC axis. If the Sibly Chart holds any astrological ‘birth’ validity then a pronounced USA historical event should be discernable by the astrologer. When was the last time in history a partile Mars—Saturn Conjunction was partile opposing Uranus in O degree cardinal signs, much less falling partile on a nation’s MC-IC axis? This is probable a FIRST! I cannot dispute the astrological symbolic validity of the 9/11 event associated with the Sibly Chart nor Jamie’s excellent Pluto analysis with the Sibly Chart. However, I am still somewhat agnostic as to one valid USA Chart-- still waiting to be convinced with more potent angular symbolism.

Regards, Steve

[Don Borkowski]

I consider the Sibly chart to be a fallacy that seems to have succeeded by dint of either better publicity or just plain hokum.

A Sagittarius ascendant does not describe this country nor the character of it people.  I have used the 7:14 Gemini rising chart since before I ever heard of Noel Tyl, and Noel Tyl has used it before he ever heard of Don Borkowski.  The provenance of the 7:14 Gemini rising chart is that the time of "a quarter [past] two at night" was first recorded in Abigail Adams' diary.  Of course, this time means 2:15 a.m.; how it got adjusted to 2:13 a.m. is not known to me.

As a practical matter, the synastry between the 7 Gemini chart (or the Marr rectification for about 1/2 an hour later) and various candidates, showing their successes/failures in elections, is the deciding factor for me.

Don Borkowski 

[Jamie Partridge]

Who is killing the most Americans now?

Transits from Taliban to USA Sibly
Precess 184’

North Node square Jupiter 60’
Pluto square Moon 44’, sextile Pluto 21’
Neptune quincunx Mars 33’, trine Neptune 31’.
Uranus conjunct Pluto 06’.
Chiron conjunct Saturn 03’
Saturn conjunct IC 10’
Jupiter opposite Jupiter 20’
Mars conjunct North Node 53’
Sun conjunct MC 01’

[Jamie Partridge]

Is there a value of consistency in your logic? If so, what? Delineate.

Two different methods both confirm the accuracy of the Sibly chart

1. Selecting major historic events then checking the transits

2. Checking major transits, eg. Pluto, through history and seeing what happened.

[Jamie Partridge]

Of course this is all to prescind from the fact that the events (undated and thus not verifiable: this is just sloppy) are not all of equal quality and there is no criteria for their inclusion the listing: it is a jumble.

Dates are on wiki

[Jamie Partridge]

From a thread about a different country:

Lorenzo and Alice,

I like the POTUS chart!  

It accounts for many of the national lines of character. For example the Moon conj Jupiter accounts for the rampant alcoholism and drug addiction in the country. Combine it with squares to Mars opp Neptune to account for the self-righteous white xtian supremacism, and the desire to monetize life by killing, chopping and digging up, as well as taking the big gamble with bad timing.

The transit of Pluto over the POTUS chart marks the nation's many wars nicely.

I feel I have finally found a practical working chart for the USA.

,Daniel

Sibly chart, the two tightest aspects explain it:

Sun square Saturn 89'
Mars square Neptune 62'

[Jamie Partridge]

I have some doubts about what you mean by 1. "describe" 2. "nature" 3. "nation" and thus 4. "nature of a nation".
Nature in particular is a very vexed, somewhat vague and perhaps ill-suited to this discussion, philosophical term, if that be what you intend by it.

Venus conjunct Jupiter:
 
Fat: "obesity rates in the United States are among the highest in the world with 64% of adults being overweight or obese" wiki
Gluttonous: "The United States had the highest availability with 3,654 calories per person in 1996." wiki
Overspending: "The United States public debt is in excess of $13 trillion and continues to grow at a rate of about $3.83 billion each day." wiki
Wasteful: "As a nation, Americans generate more waste than any other nation in the world" wiki

[Jamie Partridge]

Please explain why the 14th of July celebrations of the French is the key event positing the date we must, by your logic, use for the chart of France.

Is there a value of consistency in your logic? If so, what? Delineate.

This topic is the Sibly chart, I am providing evidence to support my argument that it is the most descriptive chart of the USA and that it works better as a predictive tool than any other chart. I havent looked at the French chart and I'm not going to now.

You show me a chart that better described the USA as a nations, and that works as a predictive tool.

[Jamie Partridge]

You are not using the SIBLY chart but a undocumented hypothetical construct, for the wrong day even.
So please desist referring to that hypothetical by the wrong name.

"The United States Declaration of Independence is a statement adopted by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776, which announced that the thirteen American colonies then at war with Great Britain were now independent states, and thus no longer a part of the British Empire. Written primarily by Thomas Jefferson, the Declaration is a formal explanation of why Congress had voted on July 2 to declare independence from Great Britain, more than a year after the outbreak of the American Revolutionary War. The birthday of the United States of America—Independence Day—is celebrated on July 4, the day the wording of the Declaration was approved by Congress." wiki

"Thomas Jefferson, when an old man, said it was "late afternoon" when the document was signed. John Adams and John Quincey Adams said they signed "late in the day." " astro databank

[Jamie Partridge]

Sibly chart, the two tightest aspects explain it:

Sun square Saturn 89'
Mars square Neptune 62'

That would be a weak and failed state. History seems to indicate otherwise.
Revise the astrology, when the historical evidence contradicts supposition.

feliciter.
LORENZO SMERILLO

“Look back over the past, with its changing empires that rose and fell, and you can foresee the future, too.” Marcus Aurelius.