Noel Tyl

Astrology => General Astrology Discussion => Topic started by: Halina on May 24, 2014, 09:50:48 AM

Title: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 24, 2014, 09:50:48 AM
     A disturbing YouTube video posted that shows a young man describing plans to shoot women appears to be connected to the attack, police said. Officials would not say whether the person in the video was a suspect in the shooting.
     In the video, posted Friday, the man sits in a black car and looks at the camera, laughing often, and says he is going to take his revenge against humanity. He describes loneliness and frustration because “girls have never been attracted to me,” and says, at age 22, he is still a virgin. The video, which is almost seven minutes long, appears scripted. The identity of the person in the video could not be independently confirmed.
     “It’s not fair. You girls have never been attracted to me. I don’t know why you girls have never been attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it,” the man says in the video. “It’s an injustice, a crime, because I don’t know what you don’t see in me. I’m the perfect guy, and yet you throw yourselves at all these obnoxious men, instead of me, the supreme gentleman.”
“Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day in which I will have my revenge,” the man says in the video.
     The shootings started around 9:30 p.m. in Isla Vista, a roughly half-square mile community next to UC Santa Barbara’s campus and picturesque beachside cliffs.    The man's identity nor birthdata not yet released, in the meantime let's look at the event chart.   The angular cardinal Grand Cross is prominent here,  (Mars-MH opp Moon- Uranus) SQUARE (Jupiter opp Pluto).   Moon-Uranus shows the attack is against women who wih to be free from commitment to him.   This is echoed by Merc Gem-Desc square Venus Aries, r5, love affairs....his thoughts are against girls who don't want partnership with him...Venus also rules 10th, so his status is hurt.
     The U-tube video shows him to be attractive, the son of a film director.   He is probably a student and the victims probably students also.
Here is his U-tube rant:  http://www.mediaite.com/online/video-suspected-santa-barbara-killers-disturbing-youtube-manifesto/
Scroll down to the 3rd picture, the one with the arrow, and click on it.
     Update: his name is Elliot Rodgers son of a movie producer of the movie "Hunger Games."

Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 24, 2014, 10:50:14 AM
      Here is some more data.   22-year-old Santa Barbara City College student and I.V. resident Elliot Rodgers.
     According to his own blogs, videos, and social media postings, Rodger was born in the United Kingdom and moved to the United States when he was 5 years old, living in Woodland Hills and Calabasas, California. His father is Peter Rodger, who was an assistant director on The Hunger Games, a blockbuster film based on a popular young adult novel series about young people who are forced to kill each other for everyone’s entertainment. The elder Rodger also directed a documentary starring Hugh Jackman, Seal, and David Copperfield called Oh My God that questioned the creation and interpretation of a divine spirit.
     A self-described “Eurasian” thanks to a British father and Asian mother, Rodger attended Moorpark College before moving to the Santa Barbara area, but found trouble integrating with life in Isla Vista. “I have tried very hard to fit in with the social scene there, but I have ultimately been unable to do so,” wrote Rodger, who had traveled the world extensively. “There are too many obnoxious people who have ruined my whole experience at that place.” His family’s attorney said that Rodger was in “multiple therapies.” The attorney is also claiming that the parents told authorities about their son’s videos weeks ago.
      Peter Rodger, the father, is married to Soumaya Akaaboune, an actress whose credits include the romcom Playing For Keeps and the Iraq War film Green Zone, where she appeared opposite of Matt Damon.   Akaaboune appeared on the French edition of The Real Housewives.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: In Stitches on May 24, 2014, 11:32:05 AM
Moon in Aries opposing Mars in Libra is loosely hooked in with the Jupiter-Uranus-Pluto t-square and the angles of the chart.  That's violent. Interesting that Libra social and relationship frustrations are given as the cause which shows stress from the long Mars Retrograde period in that sign.  Pluto in H1 shows mass murder.

The education theme is shown by the Sagittarius Rising/Gemini Descendant. Rulers of both are in the 7th house of relationships. Descibes probably the victims and the perp.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 24, 2014, 11:57:59 AM
Hi In Stitches,  good analysis....liked the Sag/University theme focus....and the frustration build-up that you spotted.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: In Stitches on May 24, 2014, 01:01:02 PM
Thank you Halina.  Will be interesting to see if the transiting mars is hitting his chart.  If he's 22 then he's going through his 2d Jupiter return right now in cancer.  He would have been born c.1992 so would have Neptune and Uranus in Capricorn.  Those are all cardinal.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: In Stitches on May 24, 2014, 01:16:21 PM
Rodgers was born August 1991 in Lambeth, south London.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638427/He-disturbed-boy-British-grandmother-Santa-Barbara-mass-killer-boy-grew-Hollywood-royalty-posted-chilling-blogs-vowing-revenge-against-women-rejected-him.html

Jupiter in Leo so hadn't had his return yet.  Sorry, I can't add.

Uranus-Neptune-Lilith-nn in mid degrees Capricorn so hit by the t-square and the eclipses in April. Inferiority complex and control issues.  Feelings of failure.

Guess an inner planet problem would be Venus Rx either in Virgo or Leo.  Mars in Virgo.  Very shy and living around lots of extroverts in the movie industry.  He specifically targeted blond girls.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: In Stitches on May 24, 2014, 05:18:05 PM
I think I saw his birthday on a poster at a press conference but the cops were walking around and blocking the view so I might be wrong.  7/24/1991.  Leo sun with Sagittarius/Capricorn moon, if it's the correct date.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: jon layton on May 24, 2014, 07:17:46 PM

Hi In Stitches,

I just did a google search with the date you gave and apparently in the first page of his manifesto he wrote "on the morning of July 24 1991 in a London hospital, I was born."

 A quick glance at his horoscope revealed natal Jupiter square natal Pluto with the natal Moon more than likely tightly tied in via sesquisquare/semi- square transiting Saturn very close to natal Pluto degree activating the configuration. Indicating an extremely difficult time psychologically.

Transiting Pluto is close to natal Uranus degree and sequisquare natal Mercury(extreme mindset) with transiting Mars inching back toward a t square with transiting Pluto/Uranus. As noted above by In Stitches the transiting Moon in Aries triggered that configuration this morning.

Jon
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 24, 2014, 07:48:15 PM
Thanx In Stitches & Jon for your relentless researching for his birth data.   Shortly I will post some charts to aid in your excellent analysis.   The news said he....."stabbed three people to death in his apartment before fatally shooting three others elsewhere in his beach community and crashing his BWM with a fatal gunshot to the head, authorities said.
     Below, for study, is his natal birth chart(approximate for morning, so Asc may not be right) and triwheel with Solar Arcs and transits for shooting event.   His natal has a see-saw pattern with Moon-Uranus in the 5th of love/affairs suggesting women would back off when he approached them.
     In the triwheel for the shooting event....
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: In Stitches on May 24, 2014, 07:53:31 PM
Hi Jon,

Thanks for the information. I had never thought of Jupiter-Pluto aspects in terms of their psychology because I'm overtaken by the outrageous ways they play out. So thanks for pointing that out.

 Interesting that there's a strong mars-moon influence. That strikes me as an impulsive act, especially with Uranus involved. Yet this was a methodically thought out plan.  

I read a blog which quoted from one of the shooters statements about how his attitude changed when he was 9 years old.  He said he changed from being a happy go lucky kid to being aware of his social shortcomings.  I'm not sure but I think his progressed Venus would have stationed Rx around that time.

Does he say what age he was when his parents divorced?  I don't want to read that whole thing. It gives me the creeps.

These shootings are really scary. I hope that someone out there is trying to understand why they keep happening. Astro logically I assume its because these kids have so much outer sign influence that they think in terms of making a grand social statement rather than a small one on one act of violence.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: jon layton on May 24, 2014, 08:24:58 PM

Hi In Stitches,  yeah Pluto is always psychological especially in Scorpio the square to Jupiter embellishes and makes it fanatical. The tie in with the Moon makes it personal and part of his emotional make up.  Transiting Saturn applying pressure to that configuration is just plain hard pyschologically.

Jon
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 24, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
     See natal chart above, Mars-Venus, the constant drive to form partnerships TRINE Moon-Uranus in 5th, love affairs....constantly rejected as woman would want to be free from him.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: In Stitches on May 25, 2014, 08:19:17 AM
Thanks so much, as usual, for the charts, Halina.  The moon-Uranus conjunctions have to be major factors as they are present in both natal and event charts.  Especially with the 5th house placement trining Venus-mars.  In Virgo, no less, can be very difficult as far as dealing with assertiveness in romance.  Don't know how to interpret it, but sun conjunct Chiron in Leo probably adds to the need to express the romantic lover and not being able to.  His whole manifesto sounds like a crazy rant unless you look at his chart which he seems to have expressed a little too perfectly.

Jon, thank you for more explanation.  Makes sense.  Everyone this age has Pluto conjunct both Uranus and Neptune in Capricorn.  Don't know anyone that age but they certainly give off a difficult vibe to me, maybe because my moon is so close.  Noel describes the Pluto on Neptune aspect as "wipe out" which is a really great description.  

Capricorn moon is known for misogyny.  Probably sun opposite Saturn enhances that type of hatred.  I am female and have a Capricorn moon and stopped talking to most women when I was his age.  I definitely grew out of it but only having guy friends was a great feeling of freedom for me.  His mother, who lives in England, was the one supposedly who called the cops to report his videos.  Mothers of Capricorn moons, in my experience, are ever ready to point out the flaws in their children because I think they find them to be a burden.  In this case, the mother was correct but she used the wrong method to address the issue by having the police humiliate her son.  Correction:  mother didn't call police. She called the therapist who called the police.

Age at time of divorce was 7. According to what I've researched this is connected with stage of development connected with first secondary prog. Lunar square and is one of the most difficult ages for kids to go through divorce along with the Saturn aspects because kids are more dependent on families to act like traditional families.  The moon aspects tends to feel picked on by others.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: In Stitches on May 25, 2014, 09:09:50 AM
I know Noel doesn't do secondary progressions but I think they can show psychological problems pretty well.  It turns out that Roger's progressed Sun was exactly conjunct his natal Jupiter so tied in with the Jupiter-Pluto square.  Both his progressed mercury and Venus were retrograde which is extremely difficult for relationships and communication.  His Venus went retrograde when he was around nine.  That's when he said his social problems began.  That's typical for that age maybe because that's when kids have their first nodal opposition which is said to be a time of confusion.  It is also the age when they have their first Lilith return so they may have issues around sexuality and social exclusion,etc.  don't know when progressed mercury went retrograde.  Would be interesting to seeif it is connected with the other ages he listed as significant.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: James Williams on May 25, 2014, 11:00:33 AM
From his Four Pillars of Destiny chart for the above birth date, we are again seeing the appearance front and center of the "negative" Hurting Officer, "negative" Rob Wealth (several rivalries), and a 7 Killings in the Year Stem...this seems to be one of the main "classic" signatures...
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 25, 2014, 12:36:46 PM
Hi James, thanx for the Chinese perspective.   A few questions:
    1. He has two Yin Woods and two Yin Metals, I take it this creates rivalries?
    2. What makes his Hurting Officer and Rob Wealth stars negative?  Doen''t he have any positive attributes in these stars?
    3. You say...."this makes one of the main "classic" signatures of serial killers....do  you mean having a "7 Killings Star"?
What other signatures contribute to serial killers?
    4.  Would you mind quoting some reference you used?   Thanx Halina.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Francine on May 25, 2014, 03:17:54 PM
I came up with the chart below. Transiting Mars is squaring and has been squaring his Moon causing anger with women. His progressed Moon conjuncts Pluto while transit Saturn conjuncts both causing a big explosion and emphasizing a one-sided emotional life and depression. His Solar Arc Moon has moved to conjunct Saturn and Neptune is transiting his ascendant, (delusions, suicide). The Moon  at 10 Cap is tied in with his Mars_Pluto midpoint (injury to a woman, impulsiveness).
No doubt there is more.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: James Williams on May 25, 2014, 04:07:24 PM
Hi Halina, yes, let me pull up his chart again...

Year Pillar: Yin Metal Goat
Month Pillar: Yin Wood Goat
Day Pillar: Yin Wood Goat
Hour Pillar: ?

And he was going through his Luck Cycle of Yin Water Snake...

OK, by rivalries I mean several Friend, which here equates to Yin Wood...therefore, he has Yin Wood in at least 2 of the Stems and at least 3 in the Branches...I don't like to use the words sibling (rivalry) or kin for it gives a false impression to those who don't understand Bazi...

Yes, both Joey Yap and Jerry King wrote about several Eating Gods in a chart becoming or turning into a "negative" Hurting Officer...and he has at least 3 Eating Gods (Yin Fire)...and his current Luck Cycle contains a Hurting Officer (Yang Fire) too...

...and the same principle with several Friends turning into a "negative" Rob Wealth...

The "classic" signature I was thinking of include the presence of negative 7 Killings, negative Hurting Officer, and negative Rob Wealth...he additionally has several Indirect Wealth which adds extra impulsivity...

So if one looks up the descriptors of a negative Hurting Officer, negative 7 Killings, and negative Rob Wealth, that will give a pretty accurate description of this young man...

Sorry for not being as explicit as I used to be, but I no longer choose to take the time to carefully elucidate everything...I see something, then sort of jot down a kind of cliff notes version...

 
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: jon layton on May 25, 2014, 04:49:44 PM
Hi Francine, I believe he was born in the morning as he stated in his manifesto "on the morning of July 24 1991 in a London hospital, I was born."

Since that narrows it down for us I've been toying with the idea of a Cancer Ascendant it is amazing in his writings how sentimental he is. He reflects fondly on the memories of his early childhood and those "innocent" times. Also the sweet and shy descriptions people gave of him fit Cancer. This also keeps the Moon tied to the Jupiter-Pluto square via semi-square/sequi-square which I think it needs to be.

Of course all the heavy action is in the middle of cardinal signs right now so I was thinking mid Cancer Ascendant. I tested a couple dates such as his move to the in 1996 and his parents divorce starting in late 1998.

I settled on a time between 3:45 and 3:50am Venus-Mars conjunction arcing to IC for the move, transiting Pluto square MC/IC axis for the divorce and the kicker Pluto on the Midheaven in the relocated chart for Santa Barbara.

It's a tragic tale the ego demands of his Sun-Moon blend would have been great. Noel writes for Leo-Capricorn "demands are made, demands are met. There is no "fooling around" here. What you want is what you get"

And his demand's were frustrated by other factors and his obscene since of entitlement. He couldn't accept anything less than perfection we add to the mix the sensitive psychology of sexuality and virility= a very troubled young man.

Jon
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Francine on May 25, 2014, 05:03:14 PM
What you write makes sense Jon though he could be using literary license saying "in the morning". We had to write a biography in high school and mine started with how I was born one cold rainy night which wasn't true at all, lol. I didn't know my birth time until I got into astrology. My husband was sure he was born early evening because his Dad had just come home and had to fix a leaky sink when his Mom went into labor and he was born quickly after. Well, his dad was a doctor so coming home late was usual and my husband was born late at night around 11pm. My choice for the shooter's ascendant was only chosen for the time I drew up the chart and when I saw it I thought it might be appropriate as he has an afflicted moon being hit by the uranus-pluto square. Nevertheless, I just realized his Mars was opposing transit Neptune making him feel like a failure at time of shooting. I also liked the depression shown by his SA moon conjunct his Saturn and progressed Moon conjunct Pluto neither of which would  be there with an earlier birth time.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Francine on May 25, 2014, 05:08:34 PM
Jon, i like checking the La Volasfera degrees for the ascendants. How about this one?

11-12 deg Cancer   A dagger lying beside a skull.   It denotes one of fatal tendencies, destructive to a degree; inclined to cruelty and oppression. This person will need to hold his passions in strong check or some fatality will surely come upon him. The nature is melancholy and taciturn; yet silently discerning, and capable of keen feelings. “It makes not, but it mars; and with the hollow eyes of death looks back with secret self-condemnation upon its unfruitful work.’ The end of life is tragic. It is a degree of UNDOING.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: jon layton on May 25, 2014, 05:39:06 PM

Good point Francine, I can't argue with that he very well could have been using creative license as he was a very articulate writer and obviously a highly intelligent and creative Leo. I just wanted you to know that that information was out there (fiction or not).

And you're right that would be another "hot" spot to have the moon in the midst of the Pluto-Uranus square although but no matter what the birthtime is he would have had to endure those difficult transits sometime in the recent past as part of the psychological build up to this tragedy.

11-12 Cancer would be just a few minutes earlier than my suggested birthtime so it would certainly fit in with my line of thinking.


Jon

Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Antonio on May 26, 2014, 02:59:16 AM
Thank you all for the discussion. Short notes:

Halina, said: "3. You [James W.] say...."this makes one of the main "classic" signatures of serial killers....do  you mean having a "7 Killings Star"?"

I can't read where James has wrote "serial killers"... and I don't think this person [Elliot Rodger] qualifies. 

By the same token, it is wrong when we start assigning numbers and "fatal" signatures to people". This is what a cold blood serial killer does: Treat the victim like one more number in his/her belt of scalp-trophies.
I dislike this propensity for witch hunting. We know how it worked in the past...

"A serial killer is, traditionally, a person who has murdered three or more people over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period") between the murders. Some sources, such as the FBI, disregard the "three or more" criterion and define the term as "a series of two or more murders, committed as separate events, usually, but not always, by one offender acting alone" or, including the vital characteristics, a minimum of two murders." Wikipedia
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: James Williams on May 26, 2014, 04:00:21 AM
Thank you Antonio...good point!  I also don't want to give the impression that there is a classic signature for those who kill others...although it would be easy for a researcher to take the charts of a significant number of "serial" killers and tally up what they do have in their Bazi charts in order to determine whether or not a correlation exists.

However, it is pretty clear that when one reads some of the ancient BaZi texts, as both Joey Yap and Jerry King have done, and then go on to present some of their principles--such as "excess" Eating Gods turning into a "negative" Hurting Officer, or excess Direct Officers turning into negative Seven Killings--that those who do go on a shooting spree like this young man did, that there is likely a strong positive correlation between descriptors.  In other words, it is pretty easy to understand some of the descriptors of what comprises a negative Hurting Officer, a negative Seven Killings, and a negative Rob Wealth.  And it would appear that many killers display these negative characteristics...

But it is also important to mention that an excess of Eating Gods, Friends, or Direct Officers does not automatically mean that they will definitely turn into a negative Hurting Officer, a negative Rob Wealth, or a negative Seven Killings.  However, the potential does exist, as stated in the Bazi classics.  And even if they do turn "negative", it does not automatically mean that that person will sooner or later go on a shooting spree...

This is why it is so important, even essential, to look at their charts not only through the lens of the Four Pillars of Destiny, but also through the lens of western astrology, Jyotisha, numerology, palmistry, face reading, etc.

 :)
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: pdw on May 26, 2014, 04:32:39 AM
A Virgo ASC might fit, reflecting:

Virgo ASC - Pisces DSC - reserved, quiet, shy around others; though very observant and sensitive to social interaction.

Hidden behind the low key Virgo persona, his fantasy world in a loaded Leo 12th House would allow him to have a starring role and make the rules. This self-serving power base would include his peregrine Mercury, ruling ASC and MC - emphasizing being mentally alert, impressionable, and independent-minded 24/7.

Sagittarius IC (a personal worldview in private...writing a manifesto) - Gemini MC (emphasizing intelligence and flexibility; perhaps these social skills helped him keep his plans a secret.)

N Pluto in 3rd square N Jupiter in 12th - a powerful dominating mindset; extreme thinking; potentially obsessive, suspicious, twisted personal perspective.   

N Mars in Virgo in the 12th, ruling his 8th House - fears, rejection, 'suffering' related to sexuality. 
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on May 26, 2014, 07:04:55 AM
Hello.

I was thinking Jupiter on the Ascendant, considering that his Facebook page was filled with selfies and the "horse that he rode in on".  That puts his stellium in the 5th house with the added pressure of making a splash at parties (which didn't work).  If he hadn't killed people, I would have felt very sorry for this young man, perhaps having Sun conjunct Chiron in the suppressed 12th.  Perhaps he was possessed.

 
I do still feel sorry for him, but more for the families of the victims.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 26, 2014, 07:53:41 AM
....he was a high functioning Aspergers.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on May 26, 2014, 10:07:22 AM
Asperger's syndrome seems to be a catchall (like autism spectrum) for anyone that has difficulty connecting socially with others.  Elliot's Mercury is peregrine and close enough to Regulus to suggest that he could easily fool others with the usual social decorum when it was necessary, such as when the police questioned him recently.

Moon in Capricorn always has a tendency towards depression and the feeling of distance from others.  With Uranus nearby (especially if it rules the 7th) would increase the tendency towards sudden attacks of depression and isolation and inability to relate to people.  Nevertheless, it will not change the fact that the need is there to make an impression on others and require appreciation from others (Leo needs appreciation and attention).

If Jupiter rules the 5th house, it is more insistence on him than joy, being under pressure from Pluto to gain recognition.  There is also a fixed star there at 19 Leo that suggests some major agitation.  Anyway, it was just some thoughts. 

There are many many young people these days with problems.  I myself when I get the chance try to say something specific and positive to them about their own talents and gifts so that they know they are unique and valuable.  So many of them have no one, no one at all supporting them.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Steven7 on May 26, 2014, 10:17:12 AM
 Francine,  great graphics on those charts, what software system is it ?

Could be a good case for a Leo asc with Uranus in the 5th house of affairs and romance. In the sign of Capricorn ruled by the planet of delay, Saturn.   Fuel for his frustration in that regard.

Uranus sits at 11-03 Capricorn,, I think that is a difficult degree for 2014.

 On December 31st 2013 Trans Mercury was conjunct Trans Pluto at 11 Capricorn
 The following day Jan 1st 2014 there was a rare event
A very gnarly New Moon with Moon Sun and Pluto conjunct at   11 degrees Capricorn
 Mars at 11+ Libra was in square to this cosmic event.
      Midpoint at 26 + Scorpio may be a spot to watch in charts. Especially of Nations and world leaders this year.

If Francine's chart is correct Natal Moon conjunct natal Uranus at the 11 Capricorn address would be more evidence of the transits at the beginning of the year  smashing hard on the lad and setting the wheels in motion, a recipe for disaster.
 The Progressed Moon in Scorpio exacting natal Pluto with Progressed lilith at progressed MC looks wild.

Transiting Pluto Rx in Cardinal Capricorn 13 was  visiting the midpoint of his natal Neptune and Uranus. Actually it has been dwelling there for a long while and went Still  Rx in that pocket.

* Pope Francis has Mercury  7th house  11-48 Capricorn. 12 houses from his natal Moon.  So the Transits at the beginning of the year may have some strong effect on him this year.  No I don't think he'll go haywire and shoot the place up.

Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Francine on May 26, 2014, 10:28:09 AM
Hi Steven, I just use the free software at astrowin.org I also wanted to add that prog. Lilith conjuncting the progressed midheaven makes perfect sense.

I was just reading the manifesto and what jumps out at me is the jealousy of every single person, every single thing that other's have and he doesn't. He is jealous of those with more money, jealous of the "ugly" people who have sex, mad at his mother because she didn't remarry someone with more money. Money he feels will cure all his problems.  He is also very arrogant which covers up his low self esteem so I could see a case for Jupiter on the ascendant. He does look similar in nose and mouth to someone I know with a 24 Scorpio rising.

 I thought I'd look at the La Volasfera degrees for a degree of jealousy and this one would put Pluto on his ascendant with transiting Saturn conjuncting it now:
7-18 deg Scorpio    A woman charming snakes, one of which is twined about her neck.    It is the index of a watchful, brave, but suspicious and jealous nature. Such an one will brave many dangers for the sake of mastery over the passions of others, and will be active in the attainment of the arts of conquest. Nevertheless it is probable that eventually the life will be endangered thereby, and, beyond the loss of power where it is most to be desired, the danger of a poisoned love, or a yet more sinister folly, will threaten to crush and obliterate this person. It is a degree of JEALOUSY.

I attached a chart.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: jon layton on May 26, 2014, 12:54:55 PM

Hi guys, you are all making great points. Even though it's a tragic situation I think it's healthy for us astrologers to express ouselves through our astrology and try to make some sense of it at this time. I wanted to post my suggested horoscope for Elliot Rodger here as I neglected to do so above and also expand a little bit more on my line of thinking.

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced of a Cancer Ascendant. In my opinion there would need to be a feminine sign on the Ascendant, he was shy and super sensitive, he apparently couldn't directly approach women to ask them out. Everything was done in an indirect way such as spilling his starbucks on "happy" couples out of jealously.This is Cancer's mode of operation gone really wrong. The Cancer ASC would frustrate the Leonine needs and I think with a Leo ASC and Jupiter there as Barbara suggested he would of directly been able to express his needs better.

PDW in line with your thinking with a Cancer ASC the ruler Moon would go into the sixth house. Incidently this would be the same Sun-Moon-Ascedant blend as Arnold Schwarzenegger and apparently he had a similar obsession with perfecting his body and bodybuilding.

His dark creative self expression such as the youtube videos he made and the manifesto he wrote fits Pluto in Scorpio in the 5th house and of course this Pluto squares Jupiter suggesting the fanaticism of it all. And so on.....

Happy Memorial Day!

Jon
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: In Stitches on May 26, 2014, 01:16:21 PM
Jon your argument for cancer rising is pretty compelling, but I'll add my 2cents here and say that I agree with pdw's Virgo Rising.  I used to know someone with Virgo rising who had some of the characteristics that Rodger had. Reserved to point of making other people nervous, extreme materialism, jealous of everything I had and did and got even with me for that.  I seem to keep noticing Virgo in a lot of these mass shooters.  Sometimes I think that their parents Pluto in virgos must contact their Virgo planets in a way which they can't handle.

Also, his public display of his virginity.  Virgo is the virgin. 
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: jon layton on May 26, 2014, 04:00:28 PM

In Stitches and PDW you guys make a fine case for Virgo. I can see having a birthtime of about 9am (9-10 Virgo Rising) because that would be the same as the IC/MC axis in my suggested 13 Cancer Rising Horoscope. So we would get some of the same same angular "hits" for life events. Instead of having Pluto on the MC as it would be in Santa Barbara chart for 3:45am it would move to the Descendant in Santa Barbara chart for 9am. I think an angular Pluto in relocated horoscope is important!

I would argue we lose the transiting Pluto-Uranus square hitting an angle at the time of the tragedy. Although transiting Pluto would be closely sesqui- square Asc/MC ruling Mercury.
We already have a strong built in Virgo dimension to this horoscope with the Venus-Mars conjunction which would be angular and opposite the Midheaven in 3:45am Horoscope. The 6th house chart ruling Moon would also have some Virgo characteristics. Materialism could be seen through the second house Leo Sun and Capricorn Moon.

Sunrise is about 5am in London in July and he wrote "on the morning of July 24". What's his definition of morning? I would think both Cancer and Virgo would be considered morning. Since he included his birth weight "5.4 pounds" I think he's giving an honest account. He liked to talk about himself.

Anyways obviously I can see your argument for Virgo but I  still think it's Cancer. It's the indirectness and sentimentalism that point me in that direction.

Jon
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on May 26, 2014, 09:16:20 PM
No one has mentioned solar arcs (have they?).  It might be a clue to see if any solar arcs have been made to what might be the Ascendant for this killer.  Jupiter has arrived at 11 Virgo which (if the Asc) could have triggered the ultimate desire to be unique (trine to his Uranus).   I am thinking that a Virgo Asc seems to fit ok (in general) and keeps the stellium in the 5th.  But in that case the 5th is ruled by Saturn which seems to calm it down somewhat.  His solar arc Sun and Chiron arrived at 22 Leo….possible Asc?….the coming forward of a pain-filled life.

I do agree with Jon in that it is appropriate to labor over some understanding as astrologers.  Sometimes it strikes us as just one more horrible thing, but then one day these things becomes too many. 

If we have anything to go on, common sense leads us to trust a person's biography that he was born in the "morning".  If he was born at 3am-ish it is more of the story of being born "in the middle of the night". 

   

 
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: jon layton on May 26, 2014, 10:36:30 PM

Hi Barbara,

Yes the solar arc of the Jupiter(11 Virgo) square Pluto(9 Sagittarius) is in part what I based the 3:45 Cancer time on as the MC/IC axis would be at 10 Pisces/Virgo and later the 9am Virgo time.

I agree 3:45am seems middle of the night(ish) but it is technically early morning and late Cancer would be sunrise (0 Leo Sun). Anyways sorry Barbara didn't mean to dismiss the Leo Ascendant suggestion as it very well could be.

There's a very good chance that at some point his true birthtime will be revealed (as he was born in the 90's) and we'll be like oh yeah that makes perfect sense. Good exercise though and a reminder to keep an open mind.

Jon
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Antonio on May 27, 2014, 03:48:40 AM
The tree was damaged and now is dead. The autopsy is done... but the diagnostic is still unclear. Time to look at the forest and take care of the living.

For such a huge task, from the top of my ignorance I call the mundane experts, vedic gurus, sweet exorcists [Curtis Mayfield comes to mind] and "new age" theorists. The last ones mentioned were the first to arrive. I hope they're right:

 "Children of the Fifth World: A Guide to the Coming Changes in Human Consciousness"
by P. M. H. Atwater L.H.D

"Our species is evolving in preparation for the new world on the horizon"

"Explains how the increase in intuitive, creative, and abstract-thinking abilities of children as well as incidences of ADHD, dyslexia, and autism signal evolutionary changes at work in humanity--the emergence of the Fifth Root Race" [...] "Sharing individual case histories underscoring the traits of the new-child personality, she reveals how these children, born with universal consciousness encoded in their DNA, act as agents for world change by reflecting back every misguided aspect of business, politics, religion, entertainment, technology, and culture so we can’t ignore what needs to be repaired."

"There's no need to worry, the times dictate a plan
Mother Earth's given birth to a brand new man
Sister I know you're misunderstood
But hold on to your man 'cause the future looks good
It's a new day

A new world order, a brand new day
A change of mind for the human race"

Curtis Mayfield - New World Order Lyrics
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Barbara Ybarra on May 27, 2014, 06:44:06 AM
Jon, no worries, its not important who is right and you did not dismiss me, and Cancer could be correct.  As a cardinal sign a Cancer will take action when a Leo will dig his heels into one place and stand his ground.  You are right about the hindsight, too.

Antonio, it does seem like there is some correlation of these incidents with the growing numbers of people in the world.   The loud and obnoxious ones disturb the ones who can be pushed to a breaking point. 

   
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Steven7 on May 27, 2014, 07:24:22 AM
 Francine thanks for Astrowin chart source.

Page 1 Halina's event chart shows Uranus op Mars  the axis points are 12 ds Capricorn and Cancer

Page 2 Francine's chart shows progressed lilith dark moon at 12 Capricorn  ( center wheel )
 The progressed MC also at 12 Capricorn may or may not be  correct because certain birth time is unknown but the progressed Lilith should be good.
 Mars and Uranus are pointing to Progressed Lilith at that time.

Just another clue for the mystery.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 27, 2014, 07:41:59 AM
Hi Steven 7, in Numerology the number 12....The sacrifice.  Being sacrificed or becoming a victim to other persons' plans, ambitions or intrigues.  12 warns against being a victim of circumstances(Majority of planets above the horizon...Tyl), or dragged into other people's affairs where you will be the one suffering the consequences.  12 may also make a conscious sacrifice.  Also: creativity, writers(he wrote a long piece about women victimizing him).   Francine's last chart, Scorpio rising would put most of his planets above the horizon.
     Let's consider his name...e-l-l-I-O-t....astrologically.  The letter e is Mercury it must be angular, it  is at the top of Francines chart....double l is for the planet Venus, it must be angular, it is at the top....I is for Taurus, it must be angular, it is on the 7th cusp...O is for Scorpio, it must be angular, it is as the Asc....t is either Pisces or its ruler Neptune or Jupiter...Pisces on IC, Jupiter angular.   Now look at Francine's chart again and you will see all these factors meet the requirements.   Anyone's name will always affect the angular parts of one's horoscope.
    This chart puts a stellium in the 9th of University and philosophy....he attended University and majored in Philosophy.  He moved at age 7...SA Mercury conj MH at this time.   Materialism indicated by Moon stellium in 2nd.
    Only one thing wrong here with Francine's chart.....he said he was born in the morning but Francine's chart is afternoon.
Therefore my vote is for the Virgo rising chart.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Francine on May 27, 2014, 09:20:16 AM
I can certainly see a good point for a Virgo rising since this is all about his virginity at age 22. Then I thought I'd move the the ascendant around until I could get the midheaven opposite Pluto at the time he moved from Britain when he was 5. I came up with 24 Leo rising, leaving the stellium of planets in the 5th house. And since I am such a fan of the La Volasfera degrees I had a look for 24 Leo:
24-25 deg Leo    A reversed triangle upon a red ground.    It denotes a person of a very passionate and emotional nature, who will suffer through the allurements of the other sex, and at some time in his life will be liable to suffocation or drowning. The native will certainly be in danger through the watery element. The fortunes will be in danger of reversal, and that through the passionate nature of the native. The nature is incapable of any steady effort, and is, in short, as soft and unstable as water. It is a degree of INSTABILITY.

That seems fitting, the triangle on a red ground reminds me of all the blood he shed and the triangle being where the bodies lay.

Looking at the SA chart for the day of the killings, his midheaven is in a critical degree 4 Gemini within orb of squaring his Mars and SA Saturn is conjunct his descendant (the end?) I don't know, just conjecture but I've attached a chart for the year he moved and a chart for the day of the killings.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 27, 2014, 09:44:37 AM
    His name resonates to the Virgo rising chart....let's spell it out... E is for Mercury angular at the Asc...L-L is double Venus, angular at the Asc....I is for Taurus angular at the MH....O is for Scorpio angular at the IC....T-T is for Pisces angular at the Descendant, and its ruler Jupiter angular at the Asc.   Any person's name must fit across the angular parts of their horoscope, I have checked this on thousands of charts.    Below is the Virgo rising chart.  His move to America is signified by SA Mercury conj Ascendant and nMars, ruler 9th, long trip, at age 7.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 27, 2014, 10:15:39 AM
    For forumites who have worked hard at suggesting a possible Ascendant, your chart should show a Lunar Return chart for his death, at 9:30pm, Isla Vista, Cal and this chart should show Pluto, ruler 8th, death on an angle.   If you can show me this, I will believe your proposed Asc.   In the meantime, here is his Lunar Return for death using the Virgo Asc chart.   Please notice Lunar Return Pluto, r8th, death conjunct his Descendant, his departure.   We also have Lunar Return Vertex here.   No doubt about it, Virgo rising chart for me.
     The move from England is echoed 3 times in the Virgo rising chart:
1. SA Mercury conj n.Asc-Mars, r9, long trip.   2. SA Pluto conj natal IC, change of home   3. SA Moon conj nUranus, change of family residence.
Since a couple of these contact the ANGLES, there is no doubt he has Virgo rising.   His 25Taurus MH exactly conj the MOST EVIL FIXED STAR, ALGOL.
Title: Another Infamous Woman Hater: Marc Lepine
Post by: Halina on May 27, 2014, 01:23:13 PM
    Rodger is not the first explicitly misogynist terrorist. In 1989, Marc Lepine shot 14 women at an engineering school in Montreal, Quebec. Eyewitnesses said that Lepine accused his victims of being feminists before he opened fire and reported that he selectively targeted women. Amazingly, Lepine’s actions were initially dismissed by officials as those of an apolitical madman and the police suppressed his suicide note on the pretext that it might inspire “copycat crimes,” but Lepine’s political agenda was proven when the note was leaked to the press. It read in part:
"Would you note that if I commit suicide today it is not for economic reasons … but for political reasons," it read. "Because I have decided to send the feminists, who have always ruined my life, to their Maker … I have decided to put an end to those viragos."
 
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Bioreader on May 28, 2014, 06:15:10 PM
An egotistical lone wolf on a quest to become famous for something?  It's the lone wolves that will forever fly under the radar screens of the police departments in this country, never know when they're going to strike!  Comparable to earthquakes!

Capricorn Moon here, yup, always fantasizing about become famous for something.  Hitler, too, but his dreams were actually realized!
Title: Re: Another Infamous Woman Hater: Marc Lepine
Post by: In Stitches on May 28, 2014, 07:59:13 PM
   Rodger is not the first explicitly misogynist terrorist. In 1989, Marc Lepine shot 14 women at an engineering school in Montreal, Quebec. Eyewitnesses said that Lepine accused his victims of being feminists before he opened fire and reported that he selectively targeted women. Amazingly, Lepine’s actions were initially dismissed by officials as those of an apolitical madman and the police suppressed his suicide note on the pretext that it might inspire “copycat crimes,” but Lepine’s political agenda was proven when the note was leaked to the press. It read in part:
"Would you note that if I commit suicide today it is not for economic reasons … but for political reasons," it read. "Because I have decided to send the feminists, who have always ruined my life, to their Maker … I have decided to put an end to those viragos."
 

Thanks for this example, Halina.  There are lots of misogynists who are serial killers and rapists. 

Right off the bat I can see some similarities.  Sun is trine Saturn instead of opposing.  Venus is also in Virgo and is prominent because squaring the nodes to the degree.  So shyness but with a need for control.  Moon is in cancer, opposite sign of Rodgers moon, but shows the same pole related to traditional values.  Not expressed well, of course, in both cases.

Interesting that, according to the wiki article about this guy, he was seven at the time of his parents divorce so probably had just finished his first secondary progressed lunar square putting stress on the expression of the natal moon through life.  As I said before I have found that these kids can tend to feel picked on.  Moon equals women.  Parents need to continue with family traditions like eating together at night for kids to make it through this age, especially for a cancer moon.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Rob on May 29, 2014, 12:51:08 AM
Just a thought: With regard to this guy’s ascendant, maybe the birth data of some of his victims might shed some light?
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Isaac Starkman on May 29, 2014, 03:24:23 AM
With 4 events I rectified his chart to 8.10 am Asc 1Vir05'
Mars in converse transit conjunct radical Desc.
In Age Harmonics: Pluto conjunct radical Mars.
In the CONVERSE Age Harmonics; Mars exactly on radical MC!
Primary:
Mars 180 VIII 3'
Sat 90 MC 5'
Secondary: Mars (converse) 90 MC 6'
In the converse solar return Pluto and SN on MC.
In the converse solar return, precession corrected, Mars  right on IC.
'
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: pdw on May 29, 2014, 03:53:57 AM
Thinking on it a bit more, Elliot Rodger’s natal Sun-Saturn opposition (and Noel’s Saturn Retrograde theory) – a peregrine opposition, if you will – strikes me as a signature measurement here.

In Fixed signs and his only opposition, it's a strong natal emphasis - with or without a birth time or Ascendant - suggesting significant formative experience with personal achievement, insecurity, fears. Perhaps early difficulty signalling a special lifelong need to balance positive individual recognition (Leo Sun) with being socially different or a loner (Aquarius Saturn, intelligent and detached, his only Air placement).

Potentially, this inferiority-superiority complex could motivate great achievement. Or, as we've seen, an antisocial focus on idiosyncrasy/aberration with Elliot Rodger’s transits and life situation – being immature, mentally ill, and unrestrained.  
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 29, 2014, 06:59:15 AM
     Thanx Isaac for nailing down his Asc and verifying it with numerous other astrological techniques.    Your chart is below.   Thanks PDW and IN STITCHES for your accurate deductions that his Asc had to be Virgo.   Thanx to others, Rob, Barb, Jon, Antonio, Steven 7, Francine, James, etc for your contributions.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Francine on May 29, 2014, 07:40:24 AM
And a morning birth just like he said! So, once again the La Volasfera degree of his ascendant:
1-2 deg Virgo    A solitary rock jutting up from a waste of sand.    It indicates one of much fixity, steadiness and gravity of character; inclined to agnosticism or atheism. Cold, mathematical, hard, and very just in his methods of thought, but lacking those emotional qualities which make of life something more vital than a problematical theory. The native is somewhat indolent and wanting in direction and purpose; but there is a great power of resistance and endurance. The fortunes of the native will be poor, partly due to lack of executive ability on the side of the native, and partly to the conditions of birth and environment. A degree of POVERTY.

And the Sabian Symbol: 1-2 deg Virgo

A Large White Cross Dominates The Landscape
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: In Stitches on May 29, 2014, 08:02:11 AM
Thanks for doing the rectification Isaac!

 Halina, the moon-Uranus in the 5th just like you said. 

Interesting how the Sun-Saturn opposition is prominent as boundary line in a bowl shaped chart.  Bowl shaped charts, according to Bob Marks, are connected with being unfilled in the self and always looking for the other half. At least I think that's how Marks describes it.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 29, 2014, 09:08:18 AM
     Thanks In Stitches and Francine for your additions.   Now with this bonified chart we can really analyze it.   First Francine's favorite, Charubel degrees....for 1Virgo he says..."A WOLF CARRYING AWAY A LAMB....Denotes cunning, deception, avarice & cruelty.  Such a degree, unless there be much to counteract it, would render the
native liable to become a criminal."
     Other authors on ASC 1 Virgo: Kozminsky..."It is a symbol of Threatenings."     Leinback...."If he is resentful & bent on revenge, he will be dangerous, both to
himself & others."   Cochrane..."Intense, critical...becomes irritable when things are not in order."
     Henson says on his MH degree...."One who will probably gain notoriety...homicidal tendency."
For his MC he has the evil fixed star Algol there, a star noted for mass killings.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Steven7 on May 29, 2014, 10:48:43 AM
 The #12 looks to relate  to Lambeth, birth place and sacrifice
 The Sabian fits too, with the wolf
White Cross covers the land,, death indicator.

 Salute to Isaac  for his work and the rest of you astro detectives. Good stuff.

From a sidereal  look  based on this time
 He has a Leo rising with Sun in Cancer in the 12th
Jupiter is also in Cancer in the 12th, sign of exaltation and Jupiter owns the 12 house as natural ruler of Pisces the 12 sign.  But it is with the Sun , his ruling planet, Sun  acts as a malefic sometimes
Jupiter  Lord or the 8th in the 12th with Malefic
 Lord of the 7th maraka,, Saturn in Rx
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 29, 2014, 11:20:06 AM
     Good stuff Steven 7.  Here's another add-on, this one from Firmicus Maternus....."A violent death is indicated by Mars on an angle(Ascendant) aspecting a waxing Moon(his is a near Full Moon)".... In his chart Mars angular is trine his waxing Moon.   Maternus goes on to say...."death is inflicted by sword, or in a fight, or in some display of power."   He was killed in a fight with police.   "Sword" could also mean "gun battle" in present day terms.   Maternus lived in the first half of the fourth century AD(c.280-c360).
     For Virgo Ascendant, Maternus says...."many toils and anxieties.  The native will be involved in illicit activities through aggressive desire for women, but only until the rising of the sign is accomplished.   He will be cheerful and gentle, with a true need for friendship.  Grief for some kind of loss clings to him."
     Maternus goes on..."The Moon moving toward Venus always indicates extraordinary sexual vices....the native is always burning with immoderate desire for women's love....they have incestuous desire..."
     Maternus on the Moon applying to Mars..."If the waxing Moon is in aspect to Mars or is moving toward him, the native is impetuous and violent, often involved in dangers, but liable to be cheated in various ways: their life is devoted to the greatest dangers..."
     "If Mercury and Mars are found together on the degree of the ascendant...they are short-lived and unlucky...they will be condemned for some experience with women or from secret writings.   This may lead to a violent death."   Maternus on the latter conjunction.
     "Mercury on the Ascendant in a daytime chart, makes philosophers..."    Maternus didn't need Tyl's MHEP, he was correct, Rodger majored in Philosophy.
     "Venus on the Ascendant by day, makes the natives oversexed."
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Antonio on May 29, 2014, 12:03:46 PM
I concur with Steven7 -- the astro-detective team-work was impressive. Even more if we consider that only part of the crimes were known when Halina started this thread. There's in fact more victims of this tragic event, as reported here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings

Maybe just one of those intriguing coincidences, but I couldn't help to notice that asteroid Pallas was travelling the first degree of Virgo: http://www.cafeastrology.com/ephemerisasteroid2014.html

I can't discard mental illness and/or something in the Autism spectrum, as early reported, but strongly denied by the autist community. After watching the man's video/manifesto, it seems to me that Elliot displayed several signs of the Aspergers syndrome:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

This is not to say that people with 'AS' are more prone to violence. By the contrary, they are very often the victims of abuse and discrimination. And of course, there's a lot more to add to the overall picture, as proposed by our fine astro-detectives.

"The asteroid Pallas rules mental brilliance to mental issues. The goddess, Pallas, was born of Zeus' head, had no mother, so is seen as being pure intellect, does not have a connection to mother/emotion, and can run the gamut from genius to asperger's, to autism to mental illness." I'm quoting Pamela L. Powers, but I've read similar opinions from other astrologers.

Also interesting:

"Pallas rules wit and weapons, the art of war and the wisdom of nonviolence, the consensual anarchy of the market and the crushing centralized order of the gulag."
http://www.zot.net/pallas_notes.htm

"When we have to defend ourselves and come up with a strategy to deal with office politics, or school or neighborhood or community cliques, this is where Pallas comes in. When we are attacked by others because of our political or religious beliefs, or our lifestyle choices, or for no reason at all besides someone’s obscene desire to vilify and bully us, this is where Pallas comes in."
 http://www.llewellyn.com/journal/article/1306
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: robynne on May 29, 2014, 02:15:39 PM
I could only watch 2 mins of the video, that is so sad its unbelievable, not only that he could get to that state of disconnection from reality, but that so many families are now affected by his actions. This keeps on happening, and we have to keep in mind, that this is a generational problem, these kids have a predominence of Capricorn energy, and often only Chiron in Cancer or Leo. Where is the sense of family, of connection, of real people and contact? (Sorry, on my high horse here, NN in Cancer in operation, but until this is understood it will keep on happening).

Hugs, hugs are the answer,  but its not too late :-) Leaving the remedy below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4)

Mercury is now at the Aries point in Cancer.


Title: Elliot's AstroTwin
Post by: Halina on May 29, 2014, 03:45:56 PM
     This boy was born on the same day and year as Elliot was.   His is also a violent story.   His mom was walking home at 3:00am when she was shot in the face.  She died at 10:57am that day but delivered the baby which was premature.   His chart is below, only his time of birth is different than Elliot's.  Elliot waited 22 plus years for a violent end while the baby's beginning was violent.   How do you account for this differece since one chart is almost a mirror of the other chart?  Baby was born at 3:48am, Elliott at 8:10am.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: James Williams on May 30, 2014, 04:31:25 AM
Hi Halina, as you know, in Jyotisha, the D12 Dwadashamsha is seen for all things about one's parents.  From 3:38:13 to 3:49:28 this child had a Libra lagna (Ascendant) in his Dwadashamsha chart.  In this chart's 1st House is Rahu (North Node), which means that Ketu (South Node) is in this chart's 7th House.  The 7th House in Jyotisha is referred to as a house of death, or maraka. 

One's mother in the D12 chart is signified by the Moon and by the ruler of the 4th.  The ruler of the 4th in his D12 is Saturn, and it is located in the 7th, debilitated, along with the Moon.  Additionally, the Moon for this child is also his MK planet, with MK also signifying one's mother...

Please see attached D12 chart...
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: James Williams on May 30, 2014, 04:43:45 AM
...also something else just caught my eye...look at the 10th House in this D12 chart and notice the A4, A6, and A8.  The A4 is the pada for mother, the A6 is the pada for enemies and accidents, and the A8 is the pada for death...
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 30, 2014, 06:13:48 AM
Hi Sri Mimosa, please elaborate more...First what is a pada.....second, so what is the significance of one's different padas being in the 10th House....I'm lost here.
OK....I'm seeing that the D12 is showing that this baby's mom is going to die because of her enemy.   That leaves you to explain to me what "Pada" signifies.   This is an awesome find James, congratulations!   All these years that I was  doing Vedic, I always wondered what those "A" symbols were about.
      Google wasn't exactly detailed on Pada, here's what it said:...One-fourth part of anything is called a paad.In english,we sometimes write it as pada.   Each nakshtra measuring 13 deg.&20 mts. is sub divided into 4 equal parts measuring 3 deg.20 mts each of which are called paads/padas or sometimes charans.
I'm going to zip into my Vedic program and see if I can get more here.
      Jaganatha Hora program only does Padas up to 4.   Here's what I get for the D12 chart:
Sun-MK 26Vi25 Visa Nakshatra,  Pada 3, Rasi Gemini;  Moon-GK, 7Ar26, Nakshatra Aswi, Pada 3, Rasi Gemini;  in other words the program does not go higher than Pada4   So where the heck are you coming up with Padas 5 to 11 as indicated by A5 to A11?????
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Francine on May 30, 2014, 07:04:47 AM
Thanks Halina for the info about Maternus. If anyone wants to read his book it is online:
http://www.astrologiahumana.com/firmicusmaternustheoryandpractice.pdf
Title: Confusing Pada System
Post by: Halina on May 30, 2014, 08:04:34 AM
    James, I am confused as how padas 4, 6 and 8 all end up in House 10 in the D12chart.   Here's the data for D12 padas:
A4, 13Aries41, Nakshatra Bhar, Rasi Aries;  A6, 13Gemini, Ardra, Padi 3, Rasi Gemini;  A8, 1Capricorn57, Usha Nakshatra, Pada 2, Rasi Capricorn.
My puzzlement is HOW THE HECK do these 3 padas end up in the same house in the D12, since the sign on the D12's 10th House is Cancer?????????????????
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: James Williams on May 30, 2014, 08:40:10 AM
Hi Halina, Sri Mimosa here... ;D

OK, padas...K.N. Rao mentions them in his book on Jaimini's Chara Dasha.  Here's how you compute them...

Let's start with A4, or 4th House significations...

The 4th House from lagna Libra is Capricorn.  Saturn rules Capricorn.  Saturn is in Aries.  Starting from Capricorn, count how many houses there are until you come to Aries.  So Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces, Aries.  There are 4 houses.  Now, starting from Saturn in Aries, count 4 houses.  So Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer.  So Cancer is the sign which gets the A4.

Same thing with A6, or 6th House significations...

The 6th House from lagna Libra is Pisces.  Jupiter rules Pisces.  Jupiter is in Taurus.  Starting from Pisces, count how many houses there are until you come to Taurus.  So Pisces, Aries, Taurus.  There are 3 houses.  Now, starting from Jupiter in Taurus, count 3 houses.  So Taurus, Gemini, Cancer.  So Cancer is the sign which gets the A6.

Do the same with A8, or 8th House significations...
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: James Williams on May 30, 2014, 09:05:23 AM
And in Jagannatha Hora...

Go to Preferences...Related to Calculations...Arudha Padha Calculation Options...Do not use exceptions in bhava arudha padas...Do not use exceptions in graha arudha padas.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Steven7 on May 30, 2014, 09:52:32 AM
James  Mimosa, do you think Mimosa is the same  as the fixed star Swati ?

Thanks
Title: Padas: Elementary My Dear Watson
Post by: Halina on May 30, 2014, 10:09:24 AM
Hi James, just before I decided to read your reply I went to my Vedic library.  In Behari's, "Fundamentals of Vedic Astrology", pg 426 and K.R.Rao's "Jaimini's Chara Dasha" pg47 we have good references on padas and their calculation.   However before I read these, I looked at your explanation and got the concept right away.   Thank you very much.   By Asc I understand you mean the Asc in the D12.
     Now I am going to go to Jagantha Hora for Arudha Pada and figure things out.
By the way, in Jagantha Hora there is an option of sending things to Paint.   However this program wouldn't allow me to copy the D12 list of Padas, signs, Nakashatras etc.   Do you find that Jag. Hora only allows you to copy various varga charts and only charts and not Tables such as the D12 Table???
     I take it A7 would be the pada representing one's spouse, A9 would be the pada representing one's father,  A10, one's career, A11, one's friends....I don't know if this system goes further into A12, one's travels, one's bedtime affairs.   Please clarify if I'm wrong here.
Title: Practice: Calculation of A8
Post by: Halina on May 30, 2014, 10:40:31 AM
     The 8th House from D12 Lagna Libra is Taurus.  Venus rules Taurus and is in Sagittarius.  Count from Taurus to Sagittarius...Ta,Ge,Cn,Leo,Vi,Libra,Sc,St...8 Houses.   So count 8 Houses from Venus in Sag and you end up in CANCER.  Is this correct, James?
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: James Williams on May 30, 2014, 12:37:27 PM
Yes, Halina, you see the pattern... :)

And yes, A7 refers to 7th House significations, A12 refers to 12th House significations, and so on...Jyotish house significations, of course...

Regarding JH tables, I've never attempted to copy and print them, so perhaps...
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: James Williams on May 30, 2014, 12:38:22 PM
Steven7, I haven't done enough research yet on your question...perhaps...
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: Halina on May 30, 2014, 04:01:03 PM
Thanks James, interesting how their is corroboration and confluence in the other charts.  Thank you, learned something new in Vedic today.  In Parashara's thick book he mainly covers Pada and being wealthy.
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: James Williams on March 18, 2020, 07:40:35 PM
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rodger,_Elliot

Rodden Rating: C
Title: Re: Santa Barbara University Shooting
Post by: James Williams on March 18, 2020, 07:42:56 PM
Here's a Vibrational Astrology take on Rodger's charts...by David Cochrane...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=bKExCU40i2s&list=PL7dB1Eig3ZbJzMd08883M4UtTxI9qkKym&index=6