Author Topic: The bucket chart and its handle  (Read 645 times)

Offline Maz

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The bucket chart and its handle
« on: June 25, 2021, 02:05:05 PM »
Hi there,

I was wondering whether this chart (attached) would be classed as a bucket chart with the Moon as its handle. I think that many internet sources say that the handle (in this case, the Moon), should be more or less opposite the centre of the bucket, plus/minus whatever orb.

The chart that I have posted does kind of fulfil the conditions of a bucket chart as all planets are on one side of the chart with a singleton Moon on the other BUT it is not in opposition to any of the buckets planets.

Is it a BOWL but a 'deep one'!?

The person whose chart it is, is a 23 year old body builder winning several regional and national competitions, very nutrition/diet oriented, and obviously, his self-esteem, how he looks, etc... hugely important for him - a 'prestige' driver you could say.


Thanks, Maz

Offline bestgranny

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Re: The bucket chart and its handle
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2021, 10:27:57 AM »
i HAVE A bOWL/ BUCKET CHARTS. MY MOON IN THE 6TH AQUARIUS 12 DEG. OPP JUPITER AND PLUTO IN LEO 12TH HOUSE, ALSO THE ASC. AND THE SUN IN LEO IN 1ST. . astrology FRIENDS WHO KNOW ME ALWAY ASKIF IM A CANCER AS IM VERY MOTHER/ CHILD AND LOOKING AFTER PEOPLE PERSON. bUT I HAVE NO WATER AT ALL IN MY CHART

Offline sesh

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Re: The bucket chart and its handle
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2021, 04:47:25 AM »
>>I think that many internet sources say that the handle (in this case, the Moon), should be more or less opposite the centre of the bucket, >>
>>plus/minus whatever orb.

The sources are misinformed. Here's what Marc Edmund Jones says in his "The Guide to Horoscope Interpretation":


The bowl type becomes the bucket when it acquires a "handle".... When the bowl's rim in the bucket pattern is coincident with the horizon or meridian, the "handle planet" is a singleton. This will occur in many cases but not necessarily in a large number of them.... The handle planet, whether or not a singleton, reveals a characteristic and important direction of interest.... It [the bucket pattern] demands a single planet on one side, and nine on the other. The bowl section is established by the handle, and not by any defining opposition or similar consideration.
...
When the handle is situated clockwise through the zodiac, between the brim of the bowl and the vertical position, the life in general tends toward caution or self-conscious preparedness; when it lies between this vertical position and the other brim of the bowl, the life is more impulsive or inclined to respond to an immediate rather than future promise.


Jones illustrates the bucket with the horoscope of Napoleon Bonaparte, where the "handle planet has not yet risen to the vertical position". Three more several more examples (Dante Alighieri, Daphne Du Maurier, William Jennings Bryan, etc.) The handle planets are in various positions, not necessarily vertical or opposite any of the planets in the bowl.

Your example chart is most definitely a bucket pattern, with the Moon as the handle.

(I have started an educational blog, astrologysesh.com, where over time I plan to do a comprehensive treatment of astrology. I have started from scratch, and am at the point of delving into houses. In the next few weeks, I plan to get into these special chart patterns. I have the good fortune to own some great original books, including this one by Marc Edmund Jones, that will provide authentic sources for concepts that have been lost or are misunderstood.

Offline Maz

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Re: The bucket chart and its handle
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2021, 01:42:24 PM »
Hey there Sesh,

Thanks for your reply.

By the way, I found your site to be extremely interesting and informative. Lots of valuable information and I commend you for the amount of work and time you've put in to it.


Maz



Offline pdw

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Re: The bucket chart and its handle
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2021, 06:36:09 AM »
Hmm, an overflowing bowl or a bucket with an awkwardly placed handle... Either way looks like a variation on an ‘ideal’ pattern to me - and a lot for his personally ambitious Saturn in Aries to get hold of, control, manage.

I was inspired to briefly revisit MEJ’s “Guide…” and figure I'd have a clearer idea about this chart if I studied the Bowl, Locomotive, and Bucket sections more carefully. I did notice that Jones allows for a range in the specific patterns by introducing some examples with qualifiers such as “falls away from the (pattern) ideal” and “deviation from the ideal [pattern] extreme”.

Maz, thanks for sharing this young bodybuilder’s chart and info. I like how his Aquarius Sun-Virgo Moon blend reflects his standout physical specialty linked to everyday training, health interests, and a keen eye for improvement/refinement. 


Offline Maz

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Re: The bucket chart and its handle
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2021, 11:31:56 AM »
Thank you PDW for your input  :)

I also like his 5th house Pluto conjunct his Sun/Moon midpoint, and Jupiter ruling 5th and an unaspected Neptune squaring Asc and MC.

He also has a pronounced Aries Point with AP = Jupiter/MC (Success, recognition, good fortune; sense of purpose, professional gains, internationalism) and Venus/Pluto (Grace is brought to power) which is very applicable in his case in competitions.

Lot's of other interesting behavioural 'things' with this guy!!!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 07:28:51 AM by Maz »

Offline sesh

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Re: The bucket chart and its handle
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2021, 03:37:42 AM »
By the way, I found your site to be extremely interesting and informative. Lots of valuable information and I commend you for the amount of work and time you've put in to it.


Maz

Thank you, Maz.




Offline Maz

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Re: The bucket chart and its handle
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2021, 12:27:53 AM »
Just to satisfy my curiosity and also, thinking out loud, could Saturn be considered as the handle with the 'rim' of the bucket being Moon and Mars? Possibly not but I need to clear this in my mind.

Should the handle always be in one hemisphere and the bucket in the opposite?

And again thinking out loud, I would also say that there is an added importance to the planets on the outside of the bucket, where, with the Moon as a handle, Pluto in 5th conjunct Sun/Moon midpoint is one side of the bucket and the other is his Saturn in Aries.

For further information, this guy has mentioned quite proudly that he has very, very, very strong sexual stamina. He does have an unaspected Jupiter in the 8th ruling 5th.

Offline Maz

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Re: The bucket chart and its handle
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2021, 01:16:00 PM »
I was reading Basil's book COMMON SENSE SYNASTRY and he mentions that Pluto in or ruling the 5th points to extremes, from the extremes of a 70-year-old virgin to severe hedonism.

Offline sesh

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Re: The bucket chart and its handle
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2021, 05:49:30 AM »
Just to satisfy my curiosity and also, thinking out loud, could Saturn be considered as the handle with the 'rim' of the bucket being Moon and Mars? Possibly not but I need to clear this in my mind.

Should the handle always be in one hemisphere and the bucket in the opposite?

And again thinking out loud, I would also say that there is an added importance to the planets on the outside of the bucket, where, with the Moon as a handle, Pluto in 5th conjunct Sun/Moon midpoint is one side of the bucket and the other is his Saturn in Aries.

For further information, this guy has mentioned quite proudly that he has very, very, very strong sexual stamina. He does have an unaspected Jupiter in the 8th ruling 5th.

The rim opposition certainly makes a case for the span between the Moon and Mars to be treated as the bowl, and Saturn as the handle. My only quibble would be that Saturn is vey close to the rim, but there's no explicit mention in MEJ's books (The Guide to Horoscope Interpretation, Essentials of Astrological Analysis) that this would be a disqualifier.
Also, the handle and bowl do not have to be in different hemispheres. If it does in fact happen to be the case, then the handle planet becomes a singleton, rendering it more powerful.

In this chart, I would first go with Moon as the handle (singleton) and the western hemisphere bowl and see if it the consequent interpretation resonates with the person's life. If that doesn't fit, then try Saturn as the handle planet - the Moon would still be very important here because it is the "leading planet" of the bowl.

About that Jupiter, isn't it square Pluto? Which, given the 5th rulership of Jupiter in the 8th and Pluto in the 5th makes a very strong case for sexual stamina. I would also consider the presence of Mars in the 8th house as a contributing factor since it is also square Pluto.

Offline Maz

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Re: The bucket chart and its handle
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2021, 04:38:16 PM »
About that Jupiter, isn't it square Pluto? Which, given the 5th rulership of Jupiter in the 8th and Pluto in the 5th makes a very strong case for sexual stamina. I would also consider the presence of Mars in the 8th house as a contributing factor since it is also square Pluto.



Yes agreed, nicely spotted.

About the bucket handles, I think for this guy, both 'handles' are applicable. The Moon in Virgo for his major focus of health foods and diet and a focus on detail and hygiene and also the Saturn in Aries, his ambition and drive. At this present moment in time, he has won 2nd and 2nd in two regional competitions and 1st in a national competition and still more to come.

Perhaps the bucket can have 2 handles🤔 - a kind of minor handle and a major handle? In this chart, the Moon plays the more dominant 'handle' role for sure.



« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 04:40:07 PM by Maz »