Author Topic: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes  (Read 1568 times)

Offline James Williams

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Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« on: July 28, 2021, 06:07:36 AM »
May start a new series here regarding the headliner topic.  The beautiful thing about this Jyotisha school of thought is that each astrologer will give nearly the exact same reading, since its principles and techniques are extremely streamlined and delineated.

I thought of starting with Noel's chart, and wanted to focus first on his natal Saturn, since it was his strongest graha (planet).

As mentioned in A Complete Book on Horary Astrology: Principles and Case Studies (Application of Prasna Astrology) by V.K. Choudhry and K. Rajesh Chaudhary, when Saturn is strong in the birth chart, it signifies the  "highest human qualities, spirituality, detachment, concentration, inwardness, dutifulness, reliability, honesty, humility, sincerity, stability, longevity, authoritativeness, discipline, responsibility, conservatism, practicality, realism, durability, eye for detail, sobriety, constancy and consistency" (pp. 51-52).

Noel's second strongest graha according to this approach was his Moon, operating at around 88 percent efficiency.  When strong, "the person does not have to strive for acquiring status and it denotes affluence, receptivity, sensitivity, imagination, good memory, meritorious deeds and sound habits" (p. 44).

These could very easily have been shared with Noel during a consultation. 

Would have loved to have heard his response!

 ;)


"There is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us." "  (Jesus).

Offline pdw

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2021, 04:37:38 AM »
Hi James,

Yes, Noel’s response would have been interesting – and informative, I imagine. ;)

These are not bad for ‘static textbook designations’, a phrase I just came across in S&C. I can see how the Saturn characteristics were alive and at work in Noel, and central to the great professional success and respect that he earned (Saturn in his 10th House rules his Capricorn Sun-Jupiter).

The Moon list is not as successful, imho. I guess it strikes me as a bit lackluster for Noel’s people-oriented 3rd House Leo Moon (opposing Venus) and his flair for showy, dramatic communication. Perhaps adjusting the intro to ‘the person needs to be appreciated and loved for his…” would liven the list up and remind me a bit more of Noel.


Offline James Williams

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2021, 05:43:27 AM »
Hi pdw, yes, the Moon list is a bit lackluster, yet most of what the Choudhry's list seems to apply.

The Moon in Noel's Jyotisha birth chart rules his 2nd House of speech, status, wealth, and family.

Its placement in Leo is indeed fortuitous according to the Systems' Approach, as they write..."Any planet placed in the sign Leo has comparatively more power and certainly up by 25 percent than the actual power of the said planet(s)."

Also, "When being the lord of the 2nd House, a Sun-like planet...placed in Leo's sign...gains additional strength."

"The 2nd House rules the status of the person in the society...The 3rd House rules the communication power of the person which is an important aspect for leadership.  The 9th House is the house of fortune and rules happiness from father and preceptor.  The [mooltrikona] lords of the 2nd, 3rd, and 9th House, wherever other than the Sun, act like the Sun for the various Ascendants..."

Thus, they're saying that Noel's Moon, being in the mooltrikona sign of Leo, and being ruler of his 2nd House, is a Sun-like planet--it shines, radiates warmth, enlightens, etc.

They consider it to function at around 90 percent effectiveness, since its dispositor's dispositor is combust.  But this is just a small glitch and in no way reduces the power and effectiveness of that Moon...

 :)
"There is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us." "  (Jesus).

Offline Halina

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2021, 05:57:26 AM »
Hi James,  should be interesting to follow this thread.    One question.......what program are you using to determine planet
strength???

Offline James Williams

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2021, 05:57:47 AM »
I should also add that Noel's Moon in Leo in his Jyotisha natal chart is at 4 degrees 24 minutes, while his Ascendant degree is 7 degrees 00 minutes (Gemini). 

One's Ascendant degree in their Jyotisha birth chart is what the Systems' Approach adherents refer to as one's MEP--Most Effective Point.  This means that the most effective point of each house of Noel's would be 4 degrees.

And any planet within 5 degrees of one's MEP makes what they term a close aspect to that MEP.

So, Noel's Moon makes a close aspect to the MEP of his 3rd House of communication, ventures, initiative, motivation, leadership, courage, vision, imagination, entrepreneurial nature, the power of understanding, and writing.

And since each planet in one's Jyotisha chart aspects the 7th from itself, this Moon also powerfully benefits his 9th House of fortune, intuition, charity, virtue, duty, foreign travel, father, preceptor, philosophy, and sudden and unexpected gains.

 :)
"There is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us." "  (Jesus).

Offline James Williams

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2021, 06:05:37 AM »
Hi Halina, I'm using Brian Conrad's software, Jyotish Tools, since he has already calculated the Systems' Approach planetary strength.

However, he has not added the feature of the loss or gain of strength of planets, which is given here...

http://yournetastrologer.com/learn_astrology2a.htm

 :)
"There is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us." "  (Jesus).

Offline Halina

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2021, 06:11:27 AM »
Thanx for the link James.    According to another system of planetary strengths, the astrodyne system found in Solar Fire, Tyl's,
Moon and Saturn are not his strongest planets.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 08:09:06 AM by Halina »

Offline James Williams

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2021, 06:26:11 AM »
I do not find that surprising Halina.  It's like rectification--it all depends upon what system, philosophy, methodology, technique(s) one espouses...

The key question is is it accurate as delineated by the adherents...does it correspond to personality or life events?
"There is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us." "  (Jesus).

Offline James Williams

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2021, 06:32:57 AM »
As mentioned here several times previously, astrologer David Hawthorne has done some wonderful videos on YouTube utilizing the Systems' Approach methodology.  At times he's a bit too dogmatic, rigid, and condescending towards other astrological perspectives, but he does give a pretty good rendition of how to apply the principles and techniques of the Systems' Approach...

https://www.youtube.com/user/astroview108/videos

"There is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us." "  (Jesus).

Offline Halina

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2021, 08:05:42 AM »
James, can you keep the Systems Approach a pure sstem without diluting it and mixing in other systems.    For example Tyl''s Moon is weak by the SYSTEMS APPROACH and you try to make it strong by mixing in other systems.    Brian Conrad has already determined that Tyl's Moon is weak however you go to another systems link and mix in their reasoning.    Sorry I'm not buying a mix mash diluting system for planetary strengths.
      You say "it all depends on what system one is using".......well if this is a thread on THE SYSTEMS APPROACH I wouldn't
expect a hodge podge mix of 10 different systems.     After all that's what the authors are trying to prevent a hodge podge of
of different rules from different authors.......read Thor's articles he sticks to the rules of one system.
      Look at Conrad's table again James, Venus, 81%, while Saturn has no  percentage indicated.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 09:18:16 AM by Halina »

Offline James Williams

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2021, 09:05:28 AM »
Here's another example.

This person has 13 degrees Virgo rising.  So the MEP for each house of hers is 13 degrees.  Functional benefic planets for Virgo rising are Moon, Jupiter, Mercury, Venus.  Functional malefic planets for Virgo rising are Sun, Mars, Rahu, Saturn, Ketu.

Functional malefic Sun is at 7 degrees Gemini (non-mooltrikona sign) well-placed in the 10th House.  It rules the 12th House and is weak since the MEP of its house of placement is closely conjunct 8th House ruler functional malefic Mars.  So natal Sun and MEP of the 12th House become vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within in orb of 5 degrees (8 degrees to 18 degrees).

Functional benefic Moon is at 11 degrees Aquarius (mooltrikona sign) badly-placed in the 6th House.  It rules the 11th House and is weak since it is in the 6th House, and also its dispositor Saturn is weak.  Thus both the Moon and the 11th House become vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.

Functional benefic Mercury is at 26 degrees Gemini (non-mooltrikona sign) well-placed in the 10th House.  It rules the 1st House and is weak since it is in old age (and its house of placement is afflicted by a functional malefic planet within an orb of 5 degrees for non-mooltrikona signs), yet still functions at around 80 percent efficiency.  Therefore, both Mercury and the 1st House become vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.

Functional benefic Venus is at 10 degrees Gemini, well-placed in the 10th House.  It rules the 2nd House and is weak since it is around 70 percent combust, and is exactly aspected by functional malefic Mars.  Thus, both Venus and the 2nd House become vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.

Functional malefic Mars is the MMP (Most Malefic Planet) since it rules the 8th House.  It is at 10 degrees Gemini, well-placed in the 10th House and is weak since it is about 88 percent combust.  So both Mars and the 8th House are vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.

Functional benefic Jupiter is at 4 1/2 degrees Taurus, well-placed in the 9th House.  It rules the 4th House and is slightly weak since it is in infant state, yet functions nicely with around 91 percent effectiveness.  So both Jupiter and the 4th House are vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.

Functional malefic Saturn is at nearly 2 degrees Taurus, well-placed in the 9th House.  It rules the 6th House and is weak due to infant state, thereby functioning at around 62 percent efficiency.  Thus both Saturn and the 6th House are vulnerable to natal and transit afflictions within an orb of 5 degrees.

Rahu (AKA North Node) is at about 1 degree Cancer in the 11th House, so Ketu (AKA South Node) is at about 1 degree Capricorn in the 5th House.  Thus, Ketu closely afflicts Saturn, while both Ketu and Rahu closely afflict Mercury.

Both Sun and Mars are Rahu-like planets.  They give "inclinations for greed, over-ambitiousness, encroachments, materialistic pursuits, lust, obstructions, mishaps, and loss of patience."

Here's a link entitled, How to Analyze a [Jyotisha] Horoscope in 3 Minutes...this is just one way to do it...the System's Approach way...

http://yournetastrologer.com/learn_astrology43.htm






 
"There is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us." "  (Jesus).

Offline James Williams

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2021, 09:13:04 AM »
Halina, Brian Conrad's software has Noel's Moon functioning at 88 percent efficiency.

I have not mixed systems in this thread--I have only utilized the Systems' Approach.  In another thread on Peterson, I utilized Nandi Naadi--but not in this thread.

Again, Halina, you're not understanding and you're confused and making wrong accusations.  Slow down, reread whatever literature you have on the Systems' Approach, and watch some of David Hawthorne's analysis.
"There is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us." "  (Jesus).

Offline Halina

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2021, 09:15:11 AM »
        If we read Noel's biography, it shows a weak Saturn, the father, who deserted him when he was 10.    This verifies a weak Saturn as shown by Brian Conrad's point system.    The mother was also unstable, read the biography......thus she also
is represented by a weak Moon as Conrad's point system verifies.

        https://www.afan.org/remembering-noel-tyl/
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 09:20:43 AM by Halina »

Offline James Williams

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2021, 09:20:44 AM »
Brian Conrad's software has Noel with a STRONG Saturn.

Stop it Halina.  He has not one comment or box checked on Noel's Saturn.

"There is no step along the road that anyone takes by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us." "  (Jesus).

Offline Halina

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Re: Systems' Approach to Interpreting Jyotisha Horoscopes
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2021, 09:21:59 AM »
James, look at the Conrad Table above, there is no percentage beside the planet Saturn, there is 81% beside Venus.
So where are you getting 88% for Saturn?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 09:24:00 AM by Halina »