Solar arcs and Primary directions

[Barbara Ybarra]

Hello

I cannot seem to find anywhere on line any comments about how solar arcs are perhaps the modern astrologer's version of what primary directions did for an astrologer in the past.  I know they are two different things, and they go in two different directions, one clockwise, one counter clockwise, but, if the primary directions were so important, why did we stop doing them?  Just because they were difficult to decipher?  Solar fire now has installed the feature, Matrix has not yet.

I have done a fudge-system version of primary directions with my own chart, but I don't bother to do it for other people, and I see some reason to suspect that they add to the solar arc pictures, and sometimes coincide with them.  But I am not measuring correctly, so I cannot be sure.  I just try to see where a certain point in the sky would be later on in the day.  Has anyone else compared the two?  I heard that very few astrologers use primary directions...because it is a math nerd sort of thing....except now solar fire has it, and there is no need to be a nerd and sit there all day with a slipstick.   

-Barbara Y.

[Old Guy in Astrology]

One reason is that Primaries require an accuracy level on the chart down to about a minute in the birth time.  As a result, anyone who uses primaries has to rectify the chart.  Secondly, they are rather difficult to calculate.  You can't just eyeball them.  Primary directions programs are more expensive than the whole program of Solar Fire, for example:

Placidus 7.0 - $480.00

Price for users of Placidus, v. 6 - $160.00
Price for users of Placidus, v. 5 - $210.00
Price for users of Placidus, v. 4 - $240.00
Price for users of Placidus, v. 3 - $290.00
Version 7.0 of Placidusis still the top program for calculating primary directions, but it includes the extensive Porphyrius Magus module for ancient astrology which can also be purchased stand-alone for $250. New Porphyrius Magus features include The Celestial Pentagram of Venus, The Circle of Petosiris, The Oktatopon, Heliacal Calendar, Paranatellonta, Parapegma, Heliacal phases of stars and planets, 2D images of the zodiac with the stars, and The Hermetic Zodiac with all 3 kinds of projection of the stars (simple, paranatellonta and ortus). Porphyrius Magus will find the Hyleg, Alcocoden, and Almuten of the chart - the astral trinity of Hellenistic, Arab, and Medieval Astrology which are needed in order to do traditional style prognostication. The module can calculate according to the rules of 6 Hellenistic, 3 Arab, and 1 Medieval author: Dorotheus, Rhetorius-Valens, Valens, Ptolemy, Porphyry, Paulus Alexandrinus, Omar Tiberiades, Alchabitius, Abenragel, and Regiomontanus. The graphic interface shows in an organized way the intermediate thought processes that lead from candidacy to final winner for The God's Light (Hyleg), The Guardian Angel (Alcocoden), and The Ego (Almuten) or Ruler planet that most epitomises the Nativity. The module shows whether a planet is in a degree of hays, if it is a solar or lunar doriphoria (or 'spearbearer', a condition of eminence), or in its own bounds according to the Egyptian, Chaldean, and Ptolemaic systems. The dynamic Heliacal Module features heliacal phase calculations which, based on over 300 observations, are more accurate than any other modern source. This program is for the serious researcher who wants to go deep into Ancient, Hellenistic, and Arab Astrology. Rumen Kolev has investigated firsthand ancient Akkadian and Hermetic sources and the medieval Greek and Latin books which have been preserved in the large national libraries of Europe (see his book Gauricus & Henry II - Medieval Astrological Prognosis which is volume 1 of The Primary Directions & History of Astrology series). We are fortunate that he has created the technology to reproduce the calculations in these sources and has made that technology accessible to all in this attractive modern computer program.

https://www.halloran.com/allsoft.htm#placidus7

Ivy Goldstein Jacobson wrote a whole book on them.  While I have no problem reading IVY,  I can't make head nor hair of it despite having Kt Boehrer's personal copy with all her notes on the side margins.

OG

[James Williams]

There are some articles on primary directions on this site...

http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?subscribe=success#blog_subscription-3

[Barbara Ybarra]

Thanks, OG.  $290 for basic Placidus is more than I want to pay.  Probably by the time Matrix comes out with it, my software will be obsolete anyway.

I could not find any link to any articles on the sevenstar website, James; it would take forever.

 I'm just wondering if PDs are worth the trouble or the expense.  All I could find out was that it was used for rectification (as OG says, you really need exact minute of birth to even use them); and apparently it is used to calculate death. 

I mean I am happy with what I use - solar arcs, progressions, transits, and sometimes a solar return.  I'm just curious about it.  I suppose it is just a different system, and goes with the traditional astrology....but "modern" astrologers do use secondary progressions.  They are so easy to calculate, though, even without a computer, as are solar arcs and transits, with ephemeri. 

[Somers69]

You can calculate Primary Directions on Astro.com

Go to 'Special charts' and from the drop down select 3 dim chart with Primary directions for 10 or 30 years. Then once the 3 dim chart appears you click on the "additional tables PDF" and it lists all the data - by planet and date order.

Now once you have this I have absolutely no idea what to do with it! 

[Barbara Ybarra]

Thanks, Somers, but I can't find what you are talking about.  If it is a PDF file, that it is only a picture of some calculations.  StarKnight, did you actually find working software on Astro?  I don't think so...not when people pay good money to have it.  I did see a free something on line, but I didn't want to download it in case it was not legit.   

[Barbara Ybarra]

OK, thanks Somers and Starknight.  It will take me a little while to figure out how to read it, and unfortunately it is set to only show what occurs now, and in the future.  Hopefully, those who spend money on a program get something nicer than that.  It isn't easy on the eyes, for sure.

[Somers69]

You are welcome!

Barbara I think you might be looking at the 3 dimensional chart? Just above the chart on the left is a link "additional tables PDF" - click on that and it will give you a list with the aspects etc.

[Barbara Ybarra]

Aha, Somers!  When all else fails, read the directions, or wait till a nice person tells you to read them again!
Ok, that's pretty cool.
Right there in black and white for free.

-Barbara

[ODdOnLifeItself]

The wonderful rectifications that Isaac has shared with us over the years were derived (mainly) from Primary Directions.

Here are examples of the exactitude of Primary Directions from my life...with 0° 10' the largest orb. 
(0° 3.5', the avg. orb)

[Halina]

       Which is more accurate....Primary Directions with Latitude  or Primarary directions without Latitude???   Anyone?

[Barbara Ybarra]

Thanks, OD.  Do you mind explaining briefly what is Natal primary directions, vs Epoch primary directions? 

If someone is born with the Sun in the 10th house, that there will be a primary directions of the Sun to conjunct the MC at a young age....or any other planet in the 10th.  Right?

I am having a problem with believing what I see on astrodentiest, yet it must be correct, or why would they offer it.  But..I am under the assumption that the whole set of planets moves in unison (as the earth turns) and keeps the same space between them...but it does not appear that way according to the aspects that are listed.  I could allow for some variation - because of the right ascension, but...not that much.

I suppose I must purchase a book if I wish to understand it.

[Stacy]

Oh am SO glad you started this thread Barbara! I have been fascinated but overwhelmed by Primary Directions sever since Issac and ODd started discussing them.  Happy to see I am not the only one!   And thank you Somers69 for directions on creating PD charts on Astrodienst.com.  As Barbara says - 'I have it, now what do I do with it?!'   This will take much intensive study. And many thanx to all other contributors. This is like having the master key to the universe; the holy grail. Well, astrology is that already~.

Stacy

[Antonio]

From the link provided by James Williams, early on this thread:

http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/

“Few techniques are more hyped in traditional western astrological circles than primary directions.  This is probably because they became a very popular predictive technique in Renaissance and late classical or early modern traditional astrology, during a time when the complexity of an astrologer’s mathematical abilities were more important than the veracity of her predictions.[…]

“While primary directions are a bit over-hyped, they were used by various Hellenistic and Persian astrologers, and can be an important addition to the astrologer’s predictive toolbox. “

http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?p=613

“The Hellenistic techniques for length of life are not foolproof.  They have their issues, so a thorough reading of this post and my other posts on the traditional astrology of death will not give you the power to predict the length of life for other people using these techniques (not that you’d necessarily want to after reading my results). Therefore, upon learning about these techniques, do everyone a favor and don’t predict death for people, because it will make you a liar and unethical.”

http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?p=1904

“As readers of the blog will know, my favorite free software program is Morinus. I have used the Traditional Morinus for the examples in almost all blog posts, and I’ve discussed using it in previous posts in this series.”

http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?p=2023

:-$
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Another interesting source:

“As a follow-on article to the historical account of Gauricus and the Warning of Death given to Henry II of France this easy introduction to primary directions uses visuals and step-by-step instructions, to show beginners how to recreate the primary direction aspect which John Gadbury claimed was responsible for the prediction of the king's death.” Deborah Houlding

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/directions.html

[robynne]

StarKnight:

Can I suggest that you consult with astrologers of the Pluto in Virgo generation?

If you develop your observational skills you will note that they have clear concise tidy postings that are to the point.

This is not intended as a criticism, think of it more as corrective guidance.

I'm sure the forum would appreciate your consideration in this matter.

Sincerely

Robynne